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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2018, 3:01 PM
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Default Seattle Residents Required to Lock Up Guns

Anyone moving to Seattle?

Gun Owners Required to Lock up Guns Under New Seattle Law

Quote:
The Seattle City Council has voted unanimously to pass legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan to require gun owners to lock up their firearms.

The Seattle Times reports starting 180 days after Durkan signs the legislation passed Monday, it will be a civil infraction to store a gun without the firearm being secured in a locked container.

Also under the legislation, it will be a civil infraction when an owner knows or should know that a minor, "at-risk person" or unauthorized user is likely to access a gun and such a person actually does access the weapon.

The legislation allows fines up to $500 when a gun isn't locked up, up to $1,000 when a prohibited person accesses a firearm and up to $10,000 when a prohibited person uses the weapon to hurt someone or commit a crime.
Oh... There was a tweak...

Quote:
...Taking into consideration the possibility of a mass shooting, the council tweaked the legislation Monday to allow gun owners to be fined separately for each person injured or killed.

In addition to allowing fines, the legislation will pave the way for lawsuits. The infractions will be considered initial evidence of negligence in civil court matters.

A state law says Washington cities can’t regulate guns, blocking Seattle from taking a bolder step, such as banning semi-automatic firearms...

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 07-10-2018 at 3:05 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2018, 3:38 PM
capt14k capt14k is online now
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What is someone builds a gun vault?

What about having one next to your bed?

How about government stops trying to control people's lives


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Old 07-10-2018, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
What is someone builds a gun vault?

What about having one next to your bed?

How about government stops trying to control people's lives


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Same issue in San Francisco (LA too if I recall correctly). Under their ordinances, if it is on your person, it is good. On the nightstand, not so good. And it doesn't matter if you live alone, or live in a house where there are no minors or minors visiting.
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Old 07-10-2018, 3:45 PM
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Dittos! Capt14k!


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Old 07-10-2018, 4:25 PM
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This was one of the provisions of i1639, which also attempts to lift the pre-emption you mentioned.

State preemption.
The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

This storage law will certainly attract yet another legal challenge.
i1639 backers claim to have gathered enough signatures for the November ballot, but it has been challenged. The Initiative has been kicked to the Secretary of State, who apparently has no legal authority to rule on it.

Last edited by Great Made America; 07-10-2018 at 4:41 PM..
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Old 07-10-2018, 8:22 PM
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Didn’t DC get their butts kicked for having an ordinance like this??

Oh right, just a little known case by the name of Heller v. DC...

Last edited by nicky c; 07-10-2018 at 8:26 PM..
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Old 07-10-2018, 8:31 PM
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Fine rental car companies when they should have known a vehicle would be used in a terrorist event, fine liquor stores when they should have known the customer was a domestic abuser, fine Microsoft when they should have known the license of Windows would be used to command a botnet, etc...
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Old 07-10-2018, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky c View Post
Didn’t DC get their butts kicked for having an ordinance like this??

Oh right, just a little known case by the name of Heller v. DC...
Bear in mind that it was held in Heller...

Quote:
Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional.
(This was discussed at the beginning of the thread in May announcing that Seattle's Mayor was considering this legislation.)

In the new laws beginning to permeate the country (as an example, even in Texas and Tennessee such storage requirements are being considered; various cities already have these laws), including this one in Seattle, the laws focus on storage. As per the summary and fiscal note...

Quote:
The City is interested in reducing gun crimes and gun deaths but is limited in what it may legislate due to the State’s preemption laws. In that context, this bill requires that guns are secured in a locked container when not in possession of their owner or other lawfully authorized user.
Short version...

Under the legislation challenged in Heller, you couldn't even 'carry' in the home and the firearms had to be either disassembled or locked at all times. In the new raft of 'storage' laws being passed, so long as you are "in possession" (carrying) in the home, it does not have to be locked up. More specifically, note the portion I put in bold...

Quote:
It shall be a civil infraction for any person to store or keep any firearm in any premises unless such weapon is secured in a locked container, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inaccessible or unusable to any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. Notwithstanding the foregoing, for purposes of this Section 10.79.020, such weapon shall be deemed lawfully stored or lawfully kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.
There are several links on this page; including Summary & Fiscal Note, Amendment 1, Central Staff Memo, Presentation, Documents and Research.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 07-10-2018 at 9:35 PM..
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
How about government stops trying to control people's lives


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You'll have to mint a whole need breed of politician for that good sir.

The right wants to control your bedroom, the left wants to control your gun safe (or lack there of). There is no win with any politician. They serve only themselves.
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Old 07-11-2018, 8:08 AM
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Just buy a sleeping holster for the handgun.
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Old 07-11-2018, 8:53 AM
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No real surprise is it? Seattle is as left and anti-gun as it gets regarding their city officials. Obviously this will make little difference and the concern is your liability if something happens with your gun and it was not locked away.

In this case compared to the worthless CA DOJ requirements, at least they haven't tried to define what brand safes/containers are acceptable for storage. Seems that they are as concerned about theft as much as a child accessing someone's guns. The most common gun safes and lock boxes do little to even slow down a thief. Most just keep your toddles out at best.
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Old 07-11-2018, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruOil View Post
Same issue in San Francisco (LA too if I recall correctly). Under their ordinances, if it is on your person, it is good. On the nightstand, not so good. And it doesn't matter if you live alone, or live in a house where there are no minors or minors visiting.
San Francisco is worse. If you leave an loaded firearm in the locked trunk of your unattended vehicle, you can be charged with a misdemeanor. In sections of the city with high vagrant population, youíll occasionally see many of parked cars with their trunks systematically pried open.
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Old 07-11-2018, 9:06 AM
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just another way to criminalize the working man
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:35 AM
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Preemption aside, none of it is enforceable. At best it becomes an extra tack-on charge when some other crime has occurred. If you leave your carry gun on the nightstand while you sleep, you're going to be just fine, assuming you're smart about things when kids are present.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baeleron View Post
Preemption aside, none of it is enforceable. At best it becomes an extra tack-on charge when some other crime has occurred. If you leave your carry gun on the nightstand while you sleep, you're going to be just fine, assuming you're smart about things when kids are present.
The first mentioned infraction (where you didnít lock it up, you had no reason to believe someone would access it, and nothing happened, but itís still an infraction) isnít intended to be enforceable. Itís to help people sue gun owners into oblivion when a criminal steals a gun and uses it in a crime.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt14k View Post
What is someone builds a gun vault?

What about having one next to your bed?

How about government stops trying to control people's lives
Gun vault is a locked container

Next to your bed while you are there is not stored it is being used.

.gov will not get out of our lives until SCOTUS is 6-3 conservitive.

I don't have a problem with storage laws - I apply them to all my property. I don't leave my doors unlocked or keys in the car.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Gun vault is a locked container

Next to your bed while you are there is not stored it is being used.

.gov will not get out of our lives until SCOTUS is 6-3 conservitive.

I don't have a problem with storage laws - I apply them to all my property. I don't leave my doors unlocked or keys in the car.
Yes, in CA, a firearm within arms reach of an individual is generally considered to be within that person's control. This same applies to concealed carry, and allows the license holder to, for example, conceal his carry gun in the center console while he/she is driving the vehicle. Of course, if the licence holder departs the vehicle, that CCW must be, once again, concealed on his/her person.
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Old 07-11-2018, 1:05 PM
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My locked container is my house.
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Old 07-11-2018, 1:06 PM
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In california all the names and addresses of all public officials at any level should be posted anonymously along with whether they have guns registered to them, guns that may not be registered to them, bodyguards paid for by tax dollars, have they been excluded from certain laws and which ones they have been excluded from including waiting period, concealed weapons permit investigations and training, etc. Start making everyone including the privileged leftist/socialists own up to the double standard and make them explain why they live in such fear that they do not trust the cops and demand what they deny others. be interesting if those questions came up at every council meeting, hearing at the state capitol, etc.
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Old 07-11-2018, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Gun vault is a locked container

Next to your bed while you are there is not stored it is being used.

.gov will not get out of our lives until SCOTUS is 6-3 conservitive.

I don't have a problem with storage laws - I apply them to all my property. I don't leave my doors unlocked or keys in the car.
Don't argue with me, read the ordinance instead. Or the Ninth Circuit decision upholding the ordinance against a constitutional attack founded on Heller. SF got as close to the line established by Heller as they thought they could get away with, and the Ninth says they didn't step over it. Truly, the ordinance and the decision are a slap in the face to the Heller decision. The ordinance says what it says, and it requires a firearm to be on your person, and not merely within arms reach. What other statutes may provide in defining "possession" are not relevant to the discussion.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2018, 2:11 PM
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Default GUN STORAGE LAW

SARATOGA CA. CITY COUNCIL RECENTLY PASSED GUN STORAGE LAW. I LIVE IN SARATOGA AND I WILL SOON MOVE TO PRESCOTT AZ.
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rootuser View Post
You'll have to mint a whole need breed of politician for that good sir.

The right wants to control your bedroom, the left wants to control your gun safe (or lack there of). There is no win with any politician. They serve only themselves.
That politicians are self serving is a truism, but how exactly does the right want to control your bedroom?
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Old 07-12-2018, 7:21 AM
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State level pre-emotion means this will be tied up in court.
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:41 PM
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State level pre-emotion means this will be tied up in court.
all the while it will have the force of law.
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Last edited by chris; 07-12-2018 at 5:43 PM..
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Old 07-12-2018, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ccmc View Post
That politicians are self serving is a truism, but how exactly does the right want to control your bedroom?
Besides having fought tooth and nail against gay marriage, privacy rights, coming up with various laws pretty much constantly to stop "miscegenation", more laws and policies to stop gay people from adopting, and so forth, the right has been concerned with who you are sleeping with for a LONG time (quite a few decades). The epitome of "big brother" government when they need to police that kind of thing.

That said, the left is no better, just different. They want our guns. They want our money to redistribute to whoever they feel like. They want more crime. They want rampant homelessness. They need constant victims.

I'll take the right over the left of course, but the right isn't on the correct side of the constitution or morality all the time, just seemingly more often than the left IMHO
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:18 PM
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Default NRA, Others Sue Seattle Over Gun-Storage Law

NRA, Others Sue Seattle Over Gun-Storage Law

Quote:
The National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation and two Seattle residents are suing the city over its new gun-safety law.

The lawsuit filed Friday in King County Superior Court says that the safe storage requirement violates Washington state law, which prevents cities from regulating guns, the Seattle Times reported .

"Seattle simply can't break the law to adopt an ordinance as a political statement," Bellevue, Washington-based Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb said in a statement...
Interestingly...

Quote:
...The new lawsuit was expected by many. The nonprofit group Everytown for Gun Safety and the law firm Orrick LLP said they would represent Seattle without charge, the same week the city passed the ordinance...

Omar Abdul Alim and Michael Thyng, both Seattle residents, are plaintiffs in the case and cite a fear of home invasions as their motivation to keep their firearms unlocked...
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Old 07-20-2018, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
So let's just play the leftist's game and sue, sue, sue to drain their bank accounts. Obviously this is a bit harder to do when we are suing the government (they just tap into our tax dollars to foot the bill); but if private entities want to spend money instead lets get this game started.
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