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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
View Poll Results: Good or bad advice to be surprised by a shot? | |||
Good advice | 130 | 58.30% | |
Bad advice | 50 | 22.42% | |
Bacon | 43 | 19.28% | |
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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Squeeeeze until the bang surprises you? Legit advice?
I was at the range last week when I overheard a guy instruct the newbie he brought, to slowly squeeze the trigger until the bang surprised her. Presumably, the intent behind that advice is to avoid jerking the trigger.
But that advice seems to me a horrible advice. Why would I want to be surprised at every shot? Would develop a bad flinch, no? When I shoot, I squeeze the trigger, but I know exactly when the gun will go off. Poll is up. What do you think? |
#2
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no poll, but the trick I believe is to not "care" to know when the trigger breaks.
Hence letting it be a surprise, one that doesn't affect anything.
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Hobbies: bla, bla, bla... Bought a Mosin Nagant... Guns, Guns, Guns... |
#4
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I care to know when it goes bang. Poll is up
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#5
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A flinch would occur just before the bang in anticipation of it. If that doesn't happen to you, then you don't have a flinch.
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#6
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Not caring would mean that you are making a steady pull through without moving the gun regardless of where the trigger breaks. You don't pause before the trigger break, you don't "final adjust"... It simply doesn't matter.
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Hobbies: bla, bla, bla... Bought a Mosin Nagant... Guns, Guns, Guns... |
#7
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I've heard that advice repeated a lot. You're right, it's to avoid jerking the trigger. I always thought it was terrible advice, too. You should know your weapon well enough to know exactly when it's going to go off. One should never be "surprised" when their gun goes bang.
I've always put it down to old school advice. Shot should surprise you, grip the gun like a bird or a bar of soap, bring the gun down on your target (fishing the gun), etc. That advice works in the context of the style of shooting in the time of our grandfathers, where emphasis seemed to be more on target-style shooting. Those techniques line up just right with how shooters shot 1911's around the time of World War 2, for example. These days though, I don't buy it. Having been in a shooting, I observed later on that I developed tunnel vision, my eyes were bugging out of my head, and any thoughts of "Hold the gun like a bird" nonsense went flying out the window. I held the gun like it was a talisman warding off my boss' (girlfriend's) wrath when she found out I bought a new gun/part/accessory, and only thought about where was the bad guy, were my buddies OK, and holy **** I'm in it now. Nope. Grab that gun like it's a fine piece of ***, and practice point shooting too, because you're going to focus on the bad guy like it's a fine piece of *** as well. |
#9
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Exactly... Knowing when the trigger breaks makes many people flinch right before.
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Hobbies: bla, bla, bla... Bought a Mosin Nagant... Guns, Guns, Guns... |
#10
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You don't ever stage the trigger?
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#11
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I try not to. The only time I flinch is when I start thinking about when it "should" break.
The only triggers I stage are the 2 stage triggers. But I started training myself to pull through anything and everything. I think that will make me shoot better. So, yeah, I would want to not ever care when the trigger breaks (or I guess you can call it being surprised) rather than anticipating a break
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Hobbies: bla, bla, bla... Bought a Mosin Nagant... Guns, Guns, Guns... |
#12
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I do on DA guns. Did it with my duty weapon at longer ranges, and it worked just fine.
I believe the key is that it doesn't matter how you pull the trigger, as long at the moment the trigger breaks, you need to be pressing that trigger straight back. How you get there is entirely up to you, as long as you can do it accurately and consistently. |
#13
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Ive learned to shoot pistols on Youtube .. and ive heard that saying numerous times. Trying it actually helps because i find myself flinching or messing up my grip when i try to anticipate the trigger break. It also helps me pull through the trigger.
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#15
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I think it is important to consider a couple of things here:
1. I think we can all agree that the reason we usually say someone is anticipating something when they start shooting low is because they know what will happen next. 2. I think we can all also agree that the reaction time when you are truly surprised by something is much slower than when you are anticipating something (holding yourself on the edge) My wife does this. She knows when the gun is going to go off and she flinches every single time until she gets comfortable (stops caring). Usually toward the end of the range session. I have handed her one of my .45acp 1911s before she ever shot a 1911. She was shooting her Glock 19 and VP9. She was a little worried about .45acp but she took it, aimed and hit dead center bullseye. All consecutive shots went low left. Moral of the story is that being "surprised" is not a bad thing in itself. Reacting to being surprised or expecting to be surprised and reacting to that is a bad thing. That is why I am saying that I think it is best to not focus on where the trigger breaks. The focus should be on not moving the gun through the trigger pull. And no, I have no idea if I am right or wrong. That is what I think I need to do myself.
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Hobbies: bla, bla, bla... Bought a Mosin Nagant... Guns, Guns, Guns... |
#16
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After the Four Rules* the best advice I've ever had as an aid to my marksmanship was, "Every shot should be a surprise".
It is more of a technique than it is a philosophy... No offense intended, but if one cannot read between the lines on that one, then, there's no persuading them one way or another. There are many ways to skin a cat, or, "there's an a** for every saddle". *The Four Rules 1. All guns are always loaded 2. Never let your muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target 4. Know your target and what is behind it
__________________
. "Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - SplitHoof NRA Lifetime | Avatar courtesy Elon Musk's Twitter User SomthingWicked |
#17
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Good advice at first, but then you need to get to know the trigger.
__________________
Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them. - Rabindranath Tagore A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhaur |
#18
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Quote:
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#20
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Sorry, Mosin, my post was directed towards the first post in the thread.
As always, sir, that is great advice and a good post.
__________________
. "Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - SplitHoof NRA Lifetime | Avatar courtesy Elon Musk's Twitter User SomthingWicked |
#21
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One of the best tips I learned on YouTube was Hickok45's video on following through on a shot. Just as a basketball player leaves his shooting hand up after a shot, point the muzzle at the target after the shot is fired.
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#22
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As an instructor, I frequently use that technique in conjunction with concentrating on sight alignment and sight picture. If I get them to slowly squeeze the trigger while keeping the sites on target then they are likely to hit what they intend.
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#23
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yup...
Exactly.
Any "reaction" you have when you hear the bang is already way past the point when the projectile has left the barrel, and thus will not effect the shot.
__________________
PRAETIUM LIBERTATIS VIGILANTIA PERPETUA EST |
#25
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OK, but why? You are already pulling the trigger so you KNOW it will fire at what you are aiming at. Firing the gun is already a made decision. if it's not then don't pull the trigger. The gun will only fire if you pull the trigger... so why do you need to know if it's this millisecond or that millisecond?
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================== Remember to dial 1 before 911. Forget about stopping power. If you can't hit it, you can't stop it. There. Are. Four. Lights! |
#26
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Its really inconsequential, makes no difference at all. What matters is practice. New shooters are new. Duh, right? So they simply need to put more rounds downrange until they become comfortable with the bang and recoil. What they really need to focus on is a proper stance, grip, and trigger pull which all should be practiced with an unloaded gun first. Once they get comfortable with dryfire they can move on to live fire.
I personally think its bad advice. I think you should be ready for it but not anticipate it. Thats impossible at first, but very natural after shooting enough. There's no shortcuts for newbies. Everyone has to practice if they want to get better. All new shooters have to build muscle memory and the only way to do that is repetition albeit with good technique so you dont teach yourself bad habits.
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CRPA and NRA member. Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to. Last edited by Tere_Hanges; 05-15-2018 at 1:30 PM.. |
#27
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My advice for flinching is to .... wear both earplugs and earmuffs.
What causes your to flinch? Is it the push of the gun? No, it's the loud bang. So ... wear more ear pro and you won't flinch. Imagine if the gun fired normally, but made no sound whatsoever ... would you flinch? Probably not. If you shot a metal airsoft gun that had gas blowback (that "cycles" the slide) would you flinch? No. Why? Because it's not a loud sound. So ... double up, learn to shoot flinchlessly, then you can stop doubling up.
__________________
================== Remember to dial 1 before 911. Forget about stopping power. If you can't hit it, you can't stop it. There. Are. Four. Lights! |
#29
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Squeeeeze until the bang surprises you? Legit advice?
For the beginner crowd, step away from the keyboards and follow the surprised break technique to overcome the flinch.
For the experienced crowd that shoot at speed, hold it as tight as possible. Is that correct? I am no expert. For the experienced bullseye crowd, know when the trigger breaks to align with the wobbling pattern. Right? Again, I am no expert. For the crowd that has been shooting for decades but still have the habit of flinching, may the force be with you because there is no cure. Yes, I am an expert in this area Last edited by tbc; 05-15-2018 at 2:20 PM.. |
#30
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OK guys, from a precision shooting perspective (a very demanding discipline), the most important thing is SIGHT ALINGNMENT. You have to work hard to keep the sights aligned (front and read sight level and equal gaps)while you are increasing pressure on the trigger. Yes, you'll know when you are getting close but the idea is to hold the alignment as good as you can until the shot breaks.
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#31
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The advice
Is different for different skill shooters Early on, surprise break is key to not flinching As you advance, each shot is a controlled break without disturbing - sight alignment and sight picture.
__________________
Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs) Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT (thanks to Jeff Cooper) |
#32
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Quote:
When I shoot, I don't tense up my body the entire time. I hold the gun firmly while I get the sight picture and when I have everything lined up, I firm up my grip, and squeeze. My focus and grip intensifies just before the break. |
#33
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Quote:
How can you be sure?
__________________
. "Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - SplitHoof NRA Lifetime | Avatar courtesy Elon Musk's Twitter User SomthingWicked |
#34
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#36
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If one doesn't know when the shot is going to break, I suppose they'll be tense indefinitely until they're surprised.
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#37
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Trigger control:
Slow steady even pressure straight to the rear, careful not to disturb sight alignment and sight picture, so that at the conclusion of the pressure ends with a surprise break for the shooter. Meaning... Not anticipating the recoil and adjusting your sight alignment / sight picture in the process. Being surprised when the sear breaks / striker is released in the firing sequence is different than being surprised that the gun actually goes off...
__________________
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." ----Sen. Barry Goldwater Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ----Benjamin Franklin NRA life member CRPA member Last edited by OCEquestrian; 05-15-2018 at 2:04 PM.. |
#38
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The bang doesn't surprise me because nothing surprises me. I'm ready for anything.
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#39
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hickock is the man. but yes it def has helped me ... with any firearm |
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