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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-12-2018, 9:37 AM
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Default Did you know L. James Sullivan of ArmaLite AR15 design team also designed the mini-14

Boy, this will drive the AR15 fanboys and Mini-14 haters nuts! LOL (its OK, though, because I am an AR15 fanboy too!)

While researching the origins of the the Ruger Mini-14 and contrasting it to the 1957 SCHV trials submission Winchester .224 Light Rifle, I found interesting information. L. James Sullivan, who was one of the primary design engineers on Eugene Stoner's team at ArmaLite that designed the AR15 prototype that competed in the 1957 trials, was recruited by Bill Ruger after he left ArmaLite in the late 1960s. Ruger brought him in specifically to design the original Mini-14. The Mini-14 was based on the concept of the wood stocked, .223 caliber Winchester .224 Light Rifle (that Sullivan would have been familiar with during the trials with his AR15), but using rather the proven M1/M14 system scaled down.

Interesting interview of the man that designed both the AR15 and the Mini-14.

Jim Sullivan On Bill Ruger And The Mini-14 - YouTube
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2018, 9:52 AM
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Jim Sullivan Created the Ultimax. and thats all that matters.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:34 AM
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Jim Sullivan Created the Ultimax. and thats all that matters.


Mmmmm. Constant recoil.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:41 AM
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Well no one's perfect.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:54 AM
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Well no one's perfect.
Ahem, JMB was!
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
Boy, this will drive the AR15 fanboys and Mini-14 haters nuts! LOL (its OK, though, because I am an AR15 fanboy too!)
Engineers design whatever they're paid to design. I doubt it will drive anyone nuts.

Mr. Sullivan also recommended shipping a barn door with the rifle, but that was conveniently ignored by Bill Ruger.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:21 PM
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Ahem, JMB was!
Good point. What I *meant* was no one except Mr Browning, of course.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:23 PM
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As a serious question, why is the M14 generally viewed as being quite accurate but the mini-14, not so much? I don't know much about the Ruger, is the design a lot different?
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:34 PM
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As a serious question, why is the M14 generally viewed as being quite accurate but the mini-14, not so much? I don't know much about the Ruger, is the design a lot different?
Gun magazine writers pissed off at Bill Ruger over the 10 round mag limit, wrote about Ruger firearms not being as accurate as other manufacturers.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
Boy, this will drive the AR15 fanboys and Mini-14 haters nuts! LOL (its OK, though, because I am an AR15 fanboy too!)

While researching the origins of the the Ruger Mini-14 and contrasting it to the 1957 SCHV trials submission Winchester .224 Light Rifle, I found interesting information. L. James Sullivan, who was one of the primary design engineers on Eugene Stoner's team at ArmaLite that designed the AR15 prototype that competed in the 1957 trials, was recruited by Bill Ruger after he left ArmaLite in the late 1960s. Ruger brought him in specifically to design the original Mini-14. The Mini-14 was based on the concept of the wood stocked, .223 caliber Winchester .224 Light Rifle (that Sullivan would have been familiar with during the trials with his AR15), but using rather the proven M1/M14 system scaled down.

Interesting interview of the man that designed both the AR15 and the Mini-14.

Jim Sullivan On Bill Ruger And The Mini-14 - YouTube
I thought it was based of the M-14.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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I was interested to read a few years back that Armalite was located in Hollywood at that time. On Santa Monica Blvd. near Wilcox, for those familiar with LA.
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Old 01-12-2018, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Gun magazine writers pissed off at Bill Ruger over the 10 round mag limit, wrote about Ruger firearms not being as accurate as other manufacturers.
Well the example my Dad had wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but that's just one sample.
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Old 01-12-2018, 1:51 PM
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Well the example my Dad had wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but that's just one sample.
Early ones were about as accurate as the average AK! Their wimpy thin barrels heated quickly, and were string shots. The new thicker, tapered barrels are MUCH better. My 583 gives between 1.5 MOA and 3 MOA, depending on ammo.
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Old 01-12-2018, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by madjack956 View Post
I thought it was based of the M-14.
The concept was based on the .224 light rifle and the M1 Carbine, but the design was scaled down M1/M14.
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Old 01-12-2018, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
Early ones were about as accurate as the average AK! Their wimpy thin barrels heated quickly, and were string shots. The new thicker, tapered barrels are MUCH better. My 583 gives between 1.5 MOA and 3 MOA, depending on ammo.
Dads wasn't a really early one, it was maybe a decade ago and was a SS version. I think it had poly stocks but I'm not certain.
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Old 01-12-2018, 2:13 PM
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Early Mini had 1-10 twist so the guys shooting heavy bullets weren't happy. Then they went to 1-7 twist so the guys shooting lightweight bullets weren't happy, plus they had lightweight barrels on both. Now they have 1-9 twist and heavier barrel, now most everyone is happy with its accuracy.
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Old 01-12-2018, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
I was interested to read a few years back that Armalite was located in Hollywood at that time. On Santa Monica Blvd. near Wilcox, for those familiar with LA.
That's where Hollywood Honda and BMW motorcycles used to be. They moved but I think they use the lot for cars. Unless it's the building across the street that is only cars. They weren't that good. Went to another dealership that is much better BMW in Alhambra.

Funny or not funny is the time before they moved, the manager is a heavy guy took my bike for a test run after it was serviced. But he was never the test rider and I brought my bike there a lot. One time they said it needed a $500 clutch but it didn't for example. So anyway the subframe is aluminum and there are two tabs for the seat in the middle. It's not a common bike so many are not familiar to it. The guy only hooked the front and locked the back of the seat but the middle tabs are slid into the seat.

So these tabs broke off. lol and there's a slight side to side looseness of the seat. I can get it fixed but haven't gotten to it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 8:36 PM
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If you really do your research the M14 is not that accurate either. Takes a lot of money to make them really accurate ....sound familiar? They are not as accurate as the AR10 out f the box....sound familiar?
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Old 01-14-2018, 4:26 AM
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An out of the box M1A is worlds more accurate than an out of the box Mini-14. To accuruze the M1A significantly all one needs to do is put a sling on it.
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Old 01-14-2018, 4:42 AM
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Agree about m1a .mini 14 is knock off of m1 carbine action design. And Eugene Stoner designed
m 16 / ar 15
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Old 01-14-2018, 4:42 AM
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Like most other thing most guns improve with the technology available today...
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2018, 4:48 AM
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Like most other thing most guns improve with the technology available today...
I think that statement barely applies to the Ruger Mini-14.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:04 AM
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.... mini 14 is knock off of m1 carbine action design. ....
Ahhh that would explain a few things.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Agree about m1a .mini 14 is knock off of m1 carbine action design. And Eugene Stoner designed
m 16 / ar 15
Mini 14 is a knock off of the M14 and the M1 Carbine designs.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
I was interested to read a few years back that Armalite was located in Hollywood at that time. On Santa Monica Blvd. near Wilcox, for those familiar with LA.
The entire Aerospace Industry was located in the San Fernando Valley at that time . The mass exodus came in the mid 90's when Clinton took office.

That's when I went full time in my Machine Shop and things were good for a small shop, but have steadily declined since then. Now the once prolific California Aerospace Industry has dispersed across the US to places with less regulation and a more friendly Business Climate. IE; just about everywhere, and they can make a living because the internet allows you to work anywhere with the same presence as if you were right next to the Military Base.

Once again you can thank Democrats for that. Just another one of their plans to convert CA to Socialism. Gavie Newscumb will push it closer than ever before and you can say goodbye to your guns when he is elected.

The strategy to defeat him is to hang the "Adulterous Man Whore" moniker around his neck permanently. He can't keep his pud in his pants and that is a fact and could be his downfall. Villaregosa is not nearly as bad but still no friend of the conservative. Too bad the RNC isn't trying to flip the Mexicans since CA is over 60% Mexican and they will vote for another Mexican.

Mexicans are not Liberals ! They are Conservatives. But if a Conservative is ignored they tend to vote for Democrats.

Where is our Mexican Candidate?

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Old 01-14-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Mini 14 is a knock off of the M14 and the M1 Carbine designs.
Yes, but it was Sullivan (formerly of Armalite) that designed it for Ruger. The M1/M14 platform was excellent, so why not clone it in 223? Besides, Stoner actually only designed the AR10, and it was Sullivan and Lewis that downscaled the AR10 to design the AR15. Stoner was the manager of ArmaLite, but did little work on the AR15 itself. Watch Sullivan's interview about the development of the AR15.

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Old 01-14-2018, 12:09 PM
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I believe they actually made a documentary about this fellow and his two proud offspring called “twins” with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny devito.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Mini 14 is a knock off of the M14 and the M1 Carbine designs.
Sort of - more like the M-1 rifle, except that the M-1 rifle's gas cylinder is replaced by the Mini-14's gas pipe. In both rifles the operating gas impacts directly on the oprod to function the action. The M-14 and M-1 carbine employ a piston (long and short stroke) to shove the oprod.
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Old 01-14-2018, 1:02 PM
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My first semi-auto rifle was a Mini-14 Ranch Model.

I bought it used for $240 from a guy who inherited it from his brother and didn't want it in early 90's. It came with a Choate folding stock, 30 round factory mag and Tasco 3-9X scope.

It was a ton of fun to shoot and operate the action. I hit saucer sized dishes easily at 100 yards like a freakin' death ray and I loved the sound it made.

I stupidly sold it and regretted it.

I want another Mini-14 someday, but it won't be as tacti-cool as my first one.
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Old 01-14-2018, 1:13 PM
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I believe they actually made a documentary about this fellow and his two proud offspring called “twins” with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny devito.
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Old 01-14-2018, 1:45 PM
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Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
Sort of - more like the M-1 rifle, except that the M-1 rifle's gas cylinder is replaced by the Mini-14's gas pipe. In both rifles the operating gas impacts directly on the oprod to function the action. The M-14 and M-1 carbine employ a piston (long and short stroke) to shove the oprod.
Yep you're 100% right. It's more of a M14 and M1 Garand design than it is an M1 Carbine. I let the M1 Carbine's and Mini 14's op rods and location of the Mini's gas pipe throw me off.
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Old 01-14-2018, 7:57 PM
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The entire Aerospace Industry was located in the San Fernando Valley at that time . The mass exodus came in the mid 90's when Clinton took office.
Well I wouldn't say it was all in the SFV, but yes, Southern CA anyway. I worked for an Aerospace sub-contracting company in the 80s here in San Diego. We had GD Convair and GD Space divisions going way back. Biggest civilian employers in San Diego. Plus there were others, like Ryan, Rohr, etc. And Hughes was in Santa Monica of course.

But I know what you're saying. Once upon a time, Southern CA was a dreamland for technological companies. Good people, cheap and plentiful land. And I did watch San Diego's aerospace industry disappear in 90s. Thanks be that IT and biotech companies swooped in to fill the vacuum.
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Old 01-14-2018, 8:03 PM
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