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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are. |
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#1
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Women Do Not Belong in the Infantry
I would have posted this in the OT forum but the trolls and panty wastes would come out in force and so on. since we here are in the military and we are seeing the social experiement our president is forcing upon the military by allowing women in combat arms assignments.
i totally disagree with this course we are on. there are places that women do not belong. the Infantry and Spec Ops are at the top of that list. this is a pretty good article. http://thesoldiersload.com/2012/05/2...-the-infantry/ Quote:
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#2
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I think when a country sends women or children in to do their fighting it is a sign of despiration to the enemy.
I still find it hard to believe they would actually use women in true combatant positions in an infantry unit. I would expect to see them attached to some headquarters component of an infantry division. I still can't really believe they would deliberately be put in combat situations. I don't even want to get into the drama/dynamics of having someone with a vagina in that situation. -Both from the perspective of the people working with her and the woman herself. There will be the drama of everyone wanting to **** her, jealousy and other drama that has NO place on the front lines. As someone who has had a female family member in the Marines recently and as someone who married a female Soldier/Sailor, I can tell you all that BS propaganda they talk about the military being safer for women is comeplete bull****. It's merely an illusion the military portrays to make parents feel more comfortable signing their daughter away to the military after high school. They get raped, stalked, attacked and abused in every way humanly imaginable even on Navy ships and Army or Marine pog units. WHY THE **** would a woman want to go right into the reart of a war where they have yet an even HIGHER chance of having those things happen to them? Just for the sake of equality? There are even pog units where you go a LONG time without seeing a real female, now you're going to drop them into a unit with intensive combat situations/people with more mental health conditions that the rest of the military population. And this human target, (and believe me they are after targets after you havent seen a real un-dyked female for months) goes into combat the enemy would have even more of psychological advantage by killing the female and the damage it would cause to the unit. Like when they kill the corpsman/medic, only you can't hide someone being a woman by merely giving them the same weapon or leaving their identifying marks off their uniform. Last edited by MustangSteveGT; 05-25-2012 at 8:21 AM.. |
#3
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Seems to have worked out pretty well for Israel but I can understand the concerns we have for it happening in the USA.
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NRA Life Member Vet since 1978 "Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn |
#4
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x2 about Isreal. If a woman volunteers and can handle all of the physical and mental standards i dont see why not. But they would have to be held to the Exact standards as the men. None of this, women get 4 more minutes for their 2 mile because theyre women.
Last edited by Atomic Donut; 05-25-2012 at 5:47 PM.. |
#5
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Of course, you've seen the proposal that woman be admitted to Ranger School, commencing in May 2013? It's my understanding there would be 4-8 per class. The argument has been that the Army's failure to admit females to Ranger School and receive the coveted Ranger tab is 'career inhibiting' and discriminatory.
I believe this definitely WILL happen. The question is HOW will it be done? Will they change standards to acccomodate females? There has been no discussion period to date. Thoughts? I definitely have mine! |
#7
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Not to be mean but my wife has a girl who is friend, she was in the Army...never asked what she did because shes not close to me. My wife n her grew up together since 1st grade and basically what I heard from my wife is her friend was knocked up from a lot of guys there. Im sure this is a problem and a distraction for our service men/women in action/combat....
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#8
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Sapper school has been open to women for several years.
But I agree that women should not be let into combat MOS unless they can cut all the physical and mental requirements. If I get shot I want to make damn sure that my battle can get me and all my equipment out of harms way. But on the flip side, the Russians had great success with women snipers in WW2
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In memory of Ricky Lee Turner, January 16th 2009 Baghdad Iraq In memory of Rogelio Antonio Ramirez, August 26th 2007 Saqlawiyah Iraq "most people quick to go to war haven't seen it."- unknown Check out my YouTube page http://www.youtube.com/user/DJCBX/videos |
#9
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The most annoying soldier I’ve come across was a female E3 telling everyone at AIT how to do things correctly and be quite in formation while she sat to the side in her ACU and sneakers because she was 7 months pregnant. Mean while I’m thinking “you have got to be fing kidding me you pregnant btch”.
But just remember, for every women holding a rifle, that’s one less man. |
#10
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I served in the IDF for many years (left regular service in 1992) and didn't ever see women in an actual combat role. There are women fighter pilots now, but I don't know if they're ever sent on actual combat missions. Per Wikipedia there is a unit called Caracal with 70% women that patrols the desert at the Egyptian/Israeli border, but I've never heard of any woman ever being involved in any actual, combat there. I think it's mostly just PR. This is not to denigrate the role of any woman serving in the military, just that there's a looooot of hype here with regard to Israel and the ladies. (And photospreads of soldier girls in Maxim magazine helps to perpetuate this)
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"Niemand ist hasselhoffnungsloser versklavt als diejenigen, die fälschlicherweise denken, dass sie frei sind" - William B. Ruger to the young poet Voznesensky, Prague, Feb. 1987. |
#11
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Having done my 8 in a now dead MOS closed to women with the highest physical demands rating, I know that a woman could NOT have done my job. And i've worked with some tough ladies that are more than qualified for other MOS. And that is not counting all the drama and other BS that comes with working with women.
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#12
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Put any female soldier in combat out in the Korengal Valley in Afghanistan and see what happens. Females in combat, that's a joke. That's like having females play in the NFL. That is the most ridiculous thing. As a female, I refused to sign a contract that is combat related and that is why I have been waiting since March to get a mos that is "female related" from the army recruiter. I want 68W, but nooooo, I'm not a male. . Ok, so the recruiter is gonna have me go out in artillery, but I can't be a medic.
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#13
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I have known some women who were in fantastic physical shape. I know some who were capable of doing my job in the Infantry, and some who could pass Ranger School without too much difficulty (physically anyway) but that is like saying that just because an Olympic Athlete or NFL player can do something, then every man should be able to. Just doesn't make sense. Will we eventually see integration? probably, but we will only see this when women are held to the same standards as men - across the Army, not just in Infantry roles... but this will create all kinds of other issues, where 90% of the women in the military will end up being kicked out for failing PT tests, or taping over (they're allowed something like 32% bodyfat or whatever.) |
#14
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There is a major unbalance to the reality of it. Start with logistics and end with human psychi. I don't think the physical aspect will go unchecked as we have ways to weed that out prior to distinction of the blue cord. Starship Troopers was a funny movie. Usually we have to wait till we return home for some trim. The upside is we could now bring it with us...LOL! "Hey battle buddy...hold this" hahaha
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#15
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In artillery you can shoot at the enemy 10 miles away. As a medic you fix up the soldiers that just got shot from the enemy across the street.
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#16
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I couldnt agree more. Women just dont need to serve in combat MOSs. With a full combat load i weigh around 250lbs give or take, ive seen grown ***** men struggle to carry that kind of load. If my life depends on a woman to drag me and my gear out of a hostile situation im screwed.
Snoopy, i know more artillery men with stars on their combat action ribbons than most grunts these days. Artillery is one of the hardest working jobs in the military. HE rounds weigh close to 100 lbs each and with the new M777 Howitzers they're one man loads. Do that a few hundred times a day. Back in '05 the role of the Marines in Iraq changed and artillery batterys became grunts, clearing houses and such.
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#17
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One HUGE problem I have with this evening happening, Is the lack of standards. You know over time, or damn near immediately they will lower standards for training or have decreased standards for the women to pass, there is a reason some MOS's have such high standards, otherwise people die.
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#18
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First I want to reiterate that I do NOT want to join the throw-my-back-out forces, lol. I know some artillery guys that are not getting recognition for the work that they put out and some of these cats are getting injuries of what a 40 something would get. On guy is young, 30, already threw out his back, and the other is hanging on thin thread of getting hurt. And the fact that the military wont put out the 3:1 man ratio Howitzers that Germany made a few years back, that prevents the stress on men's back is inevitable. We can't afford those but we throw out millions. Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone. |
#19
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Meh. If they can MEET the standards, then I say go ahead.
For every female who can't pass the the APFT, I've seen entire squads of males fail. The road goes two-ways.
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The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing. |
#20
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There are a few women who can be infantry. VERY FEW. But, they'll be targets. Just think of the Japanese having some American women captives, rape them on the radio and broadcast it to American forces, yup, fun times.
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RKBA Clock: Free Vespuchia! Last edited by retired; 05-26-2012 at 3:04 PM.. |
#21
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I think if there was a strict standerized test that both male & females would pass (with the EXACT same standards and quals) then a psych eval and perhaps a few set of infantry tasks that must successfully be completed, I'd be more open to the idea. One the other side of the coin, I think all previous grunts should have to submit to these yearly quals as well, this would weed out some of the people who should not be there and promote a stronger unit overall. I don't know why on earth any female would want to be a grunt though
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#24
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The issue is that first they will say "let us in with the same standards as men" but then once they are admitted into the combat MOS fields they will claim the standards are unfair to women/sexist and the standards will be lowered for them. I'm an MP. One of our primary weapon systems is the Mk19. In my eight years in I've seen ONE female soldier that could charge it to include in combat! They clearly can't fulfill the requirements of the job and yet we get burdened with them and have to pickup the slack! I've had to climb into the ****ING turret to charge a Mk19 in a firefight because my female gunner couldn't charge it after having to reload! Dismounts are a royal pain because guess what, they can barely carry their load, if they even can, let alone the extra ammo for the 240/mk48, the radio, or even enough ****ing water for themselves! They have always been a huge burden and now that burden will be pushed on the remaining parts of the army.
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#25
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I'll set aside any reservations so long as the double standards disappear. If a woman can preform at the level of the men GI Jane style AND her presence on the team works without any negative issues.
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OIF 07-09 Veteran NRA Endowment Member, CRPA Life Member |
#26
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"The Pentagon's latest figures show that nearly 3,000 women were sexually assaulted in fiscal year 2008, up 9% from the year before; among women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, the number rose 25%. When you look at the entire universe of female veterans, close to a third say they were victims of rape or assault while they were serving....The problem is even worse than that. The Pentagon estimates that 80% to 90% of sexual assaults go unreported....only 8% of cases that are investigated end in prosecution....Astonishingly, about 80% of those convicted are honorably discharged nonetheless." "a female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire." -Rep. Jane Harman http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...968110,00.html
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MOΛΩN ΛABÉ "I could walk into Walmart and pick up an AR-15 assault rifle off the shelf, but I wouldn’t be able to buy a Kinder Egg, because it’s a CHOKING HAZARD." -Piers Morgan “Dear America, please let Piers buy a Kinder Egg...” -Ricky Gervais Last edited by retired; 05-29-2012 at 11:50 AM.. |
#27
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When they meet the same PT standard as males armywide, then we can chat. Until then its not equal treatment its special treatment.
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#28
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Women in combat roles is a terrible idea. Maybe I'm alone here, but I'm not really even totally down with women in the military at all; nothing against them, just look at the statistics quoted by Yuppicide.
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#29
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I find it funny that most women in the military can 'do anything a man can do, just as well', right up until PRT, when they get 4-5 extra minutes on the run, 10% more body fat, and 1/4 of the pushups.
so much for equality. |
#30
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If i were you I would hold out until you get a 68W slot , its a pretty kickazz MOS most of the time. I waited 4 months for it and im glad i got it. Yeah i deployed and it sucked but its part of the deal. As a female currently you probably wont be a medic for a male infantry unit , if you do come on as a line medic it will be for a Female Engagement Team or spend some quality time in the Aid Station. Trust me , hold out for a medic slot . If you have any questions on being a Whiskey shoot me a PM Have any of you guys looked at research done about women being in combat arms? I remember doing a paper on this and from what I remember there were 3 main problems with the concept. 1) Men were more likely to get brave when saving a female over a male 2 ) Morale suffered more when a female was injured(shot/amputee) 3) Women didnt have the mental fortitude that men did when it came to acting under fire. Thats not even considering the fratenization that comes with females in male units or the increase in Sexual Harassment/Assault that comes with this
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#32
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http://www.vincelewis.net/sniper.html
I served in combat back in 67,68 and I am glad we didn't have any females not because I thought they couldn't kill the enemy because we know they can it was because of how the guys acted around them. We would have shows come to the base and guys acted like idiots. I for one think keeping your mind in the game is what gets you home alive. As you can see in the attached article there are exceptions. Bill |
#33
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"Niemand ist hasselhoffnungsloser versklavt als diejenigen, die fälschlicherweise denken, dass sie frei sind" - William B. Ruger to the young poet Voznesensky, Prague, Feb. 1987. |
#34
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Lets be honest now- if the argument is about standards, then there is a whole metric **** ton of MEN that shouldn't be in the infantry either. Take a walk around Bagram AF, or any other FOB in this ****hole, and you will see that ****bags and people who can't carry their weight are not restricted to women, and not restricted to support units. And on the opposite note, I've met multiple women who can carry their weight AND mine.
My opinion is; if they can meet the same standards and embrace the same suck, let 'em do it.
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"... You feel the anger thinking of the loved ones you will never see again, and losing your life infuriates your soul. You rage to get to your feet and grab for a weapon, any weapon. Regardless of your race, culture, or religion, you want to die standing, fighting like a warrior, an American, so others won't have to. For those looking for a definition, this is the price of freedom.” ------ SGT Thomas Macpherson KIA 12 OCT 2012 SFC Ryan Savard KIA 13 OCT 2012 "Sine Pari" |
#35
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When it hits the fan, call a RADIO MAN! NRA Member for life Semper Sometimes – appropriation of Semper Fi used to deride the part-time nature of service in the Marine Corps Reserve. ARAH!!! I used to make jokes... But then I lost my sense of humor in a boating accident. |
#36
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yeah the PT test is far from equal. a female at 19 gets almost 20 minutes for a 2 mile run. me over 40 gets 18:18. yeah so much for equality.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#37
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Aside from the physical aspect I believe the physiologic problems would interfere. For example American women are not used to not having a shower for weeks on end. When I was active in an aviation unit we went to the "field" for 5 days with porta-poties. When we got back 3 of the 6-7 women needed to see GYN for "female problems". Also you run into problems with being separate. Not that we do it anymore (form what I can tell), but what do you do when you have a male and a female in a foxhole? Girls poop and have menstrual periods involving pads/tampons. I think that would be hard to make "normal" and acceptable in a filed environment. Even if you don't do the fox hole think of extended patrols/field problems. I do aviation now so I don't see what the infantry/combat arms does anymore.
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#38
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"Then there are sheepdogs. The sheepdogs are the bastions of safety. The sheepdog lives solely to protect the flock and confront the wolf. They live for the opportunity to be called to duty to protect the innocent. The sheepdog has fangs and the propensity for violence but hopes that he will not have to resort to it. However, he lives for that day when he will be able to use his warrior skills and mindset to keep the wolf from harming the sheep." |
#39
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My views on this is they have no choice but to bring the horror of war to women as well. We do have a choice. My view also is that the military is fast becoming just another federal employer with all the trimmings. The warrior class and actually fighting wars to win swiftly is going to become a thing of the past if it isn't already.
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"Yeah, like... well, I just want to slap a hippie or two. Maybe even make them get jobs." |
#40
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Tru dat.
Heck, she's the reason I bought a Mosin... Of course, the Soviets were in a state of absolute total war, facing the Nazis who regarded them as subhuman. There was no quarter. We have a volunteer army fighting largely ideological wars — that is, we are trying to impose our will against an enemies in distant lands. If the US was attacked and invaded, with the outcome in grave doubt, our women would be called upon to serve on the front lines, just as they did in the Soviet army. But unless that scenario is in play, I believe physical requirements should determine who is on the front line, not some PC agenda.
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“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” — Robert A. Heinlein “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds” — Samuel Adams |
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