Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calgunners in Service
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 10-27-2009, 11:27 AM
M47_Dragon's Avatar
M47_Dragon M47_Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,263
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Rat View Post
HAHA you had Miller ours was Beasley.
Ours was Recruit Howard.

You know how some DIs do funny things with drill commands? Our third hat started his 'Foward..." command with an H sound. He also used the 'ow' sound for the first syllable.

We'd be on the grinder ready to march, the DI would bark out "HOW-erd" and before he could get the "HARCH" out of his mouth, pvt. Howard would shout "YES SIR!"

That was just one of Howard's many screw-ups. Everyone wanted to kill poor Howard, but he made it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbob76 View Post
I'm in the process of de-humping all my Glocks.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-27-2009, 12:39 PM
JaMail's Avatar
JaMail JaMail is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,900
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

i joined the army when i was 17 as a jr in high school, during desert sheild, went to basic between jr and sr year, in my basic platoon, there were 3 people that didint speak english AT ALL, at night we were giving them english lessons.

the army isnt as worried about the qaulity of who joins, especially in time of war, anyone that volunteers gets accepted, they weed them out in basic & AIT.

medical care when your in basic blows, i almost ended up in the hospital ICU a week after basic cuz my lungs were filling up with liquid, i was swigging cough syrup and couging out a lung in the foxhole while i was taking my shooting test, i managed to pass anyway.
__________________
Jason M- My 5 year old is a NRA life member, are you?

WTB: Stoeger Condor Competition Combo (I'll trade 1911's or other handguns)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-27-2009, 1:32 PM
cgseanp1 cgseanp1 is offline
Veteran Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: petaluma
Posts: 4,650
iTrader: 164 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
From what I heard, with the economy being what it is, the Army recruiters turn a lot of people down these days.
My younger brother recently tried to join the Military.. He has a few minor blemishes on his record.. all branches but the Army turned him down. He never ended up enlisting, though.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-27-2009, 1:49 PM
jamespres2001's Avatar
jamespres2001 jamespres2001 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 308
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I went through USAF in '72. We had 4 drop outs out of 55. 1 Medical (guy weighed over 250 lbs) Other 3 decided "The military was not for them'. No one was 'Kicked out'. It was the Air Force for gods sake!
__________________
"It's the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" (last time I laughed at a movie)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-27-2009, 1:50 PM
JaMail's Avatar
JaMail JaMail is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,900
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

yea, totally forgot about that, the army will give waivers for a LOT of legal issues.. assualt and battery, theft, whole nine yards.. 2nd day in basic they give the breifing for the UCMJ, and they end it with, "I dont care what your recruiters told you, they lied, if you have ever been arrested for ANYTHING, step up and fill out this form."
__________________
Jason M- My 5 year old is a NRA life member, are you?

WTB: Stoeger Condor Competition Combo (I'll trade 1911's or other handguns)
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-27-2009, 1:58 PM
Khram Khram is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: WeHo
Posts: 855
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I'm surprised USN has 2nd highest drop rate. I'm thinking partly because people not being able to swim.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-27-2009, 5:48 PM
Desert_Rat's Avatar
Desert_Rat Desert_Rat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shafter,Ca
Posts: 2,289
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M47_Dragon View Post
Ours was Recruit Howard.

You know how some DIs do funny things with drill commands? Our third hat started his 'Foward..." command with an H sound. He also used the 'ow' sound for the first syllable.

We'd be on the grinder ready to march, the DI would bark out "HOW-erd" and before he could get the "HARCH" out of his mouth, pvt. Howard would shout "YES SIR!"

That was just one of Howard's many screw-ups. Everyone wanted to kill poor Howard, but he made it.
Beasley was always late getting out of the rack in the morning for the count.And even slower getting dressed.So one morning He put his socks on early,gets up for the count and the DI says"OMG Beasley,tell Me Your feet were cold"Beasly says "Yes Sir!"DI replies "Do You think it was cold at the Chosin Reservior?" Beasley says "Yes Sir" Di says "No ****,nobody puts socks on today in honor of the Frozen Chosin" All day in leather boots w/no socks really sucks.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-27-2009, 7:18 PM
cgseanp1 cgseanp1 is offline
Veteran Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: petaluma
Posts: 4,650
iTrader: 164 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khram View Post
I'm surprised USN has 2nd highest drop rate. I'm thinking partly because people not being able to swim.
I could be completely wrong, but I've been told by more than one Navy person that swimming wasn't a requirement in bootcamp.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-27-2009, 7:38 PM
Desert_Rat's Avatar
Desert_Rat Desert_Rat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shafter,Ca
Posts: 2,289
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Swimming is a requirement in the Corps. Due to the amphibious nature of the mission.
The mainstream Navy's Mission,I'd say is to stay ON the ship.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-27-2009, 7:54 PM
jdberger's Avatar
jdberger jdberger is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,942
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorhard View Post
The drop out rates are because people join the Army thinking it will be easy and they can breeze through it, get the money and get on with it, then fail out when they realize its semi difficult. Fewer people join the Marine Corps thinking this, for the most part they want to be there and want to pass for pride/patriotic reasons. The AF is a joke, people expect it to be easy and it is, hence the low drop rate.
Right - I'd see it as more of a "self-selection" process. Marines, and the people who decide to be Marines are a different sort of person.

(If it matters, I was Army Armor)
__________________
Rest in Peace - Andrew Breitbart. A true student of Alinsky.

90% of winning is simply showing up.

"Let's not lose sight of how much we reduced our carbon footprint by telecommuting this protest." 383green


NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10-27-2009, 8:56 PM
nick nick is online now
I need a LIFE!!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,130
iTrader: 168 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Rat View Post
The mainstream Navy's Mission,I'd say is to stay ON the ship.
Yep, they'll fight harder that way. All these tales about sailors not abandoning their burning ships, they just couldn't swim! But then, I knew a fighter pilot who was afraid of heights...
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated.

DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-27-2009, 10:13 PM
steelrain82's Avatar
steelrain82 steelrain82 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: ventura county
Posts: 3,668
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

well swimming is not really a requirement in the corps. because there are many class 4 swimmers. all you really need to do is make sure your gear is water proofed and bycycle kick. or drown. but i think many people are also forgetting that the armies attrition rate maybe higher only because of the fact that they are humongous so they will have more people to drop. so if the army lost 10% of say 100.000 recruits yeah its alot but they still made 90,000 soldiers wheras say the marines get 10000 recruits and lose 20% they make 8,000 marines. the marines may have a higher percentage but the numbers are worse for the army.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-28-2009, 10:03 AM
SuperSet SuperSet is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 9,048
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Is there an issue with what's being mentioned in the report? I thought the "acceptable" rate for post-2000 IET attrition hovered somewhere around 12-14%.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 10-28-2009, 10:07 AM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Desert Area, CA
Posts: 12,814
iTrader: 84 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longbeach View Post
I've never been in the military but I have seen many overweight Army guy's and never an out of shape Marine. If Army basic is so tough why would you have to do Marine basic If you wanted to join? Once Marines decide to join other branches they don't have to go to bootcamp because they have the toughest basic out of all branches?
It is not tougher just longer. It is not the army's fault it takes them 12 weeks to learn what it takes 9 weeks for the army soldiers to learn. There were just as many out of shape marines in while I was in the army. The worst shape people I had ever seen were the Air Force but they had the hottest women.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-28-2009, 2:47 PM
piedrarc's Avatar
piedrarc piedrarc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Westbound I-210 to northbound I-5
Posts: 191
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter View Post
It is not tougher just longer. It is not the army's fault it takes them 12 weeks to learn what it takes 9 weeks for the army soldiers to learn. There were just as many out of shape marines in while I was in the army. The worst shape people I had ever seen were the Air Force but they had the hottest women.

That's a crock of total BS. You obviously don't know what your talking about. The only truth to that statement is about the air force women.
Marines is capitalized!
__________________
U.S. Marine Corps 1994-2003

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdm...ooQ5EXq2JQwCoQ
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-28-2009, 2:57 PM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Desert Area, CA
Posts: 12,814
iTrader: 84 / 99%
Default

I knew someone would step in! I just wanted to keep the rivalry between the army and the marines. The army sure has a lot more over weight people than I have ever seen but the marines weren't far behind only because there were less of them. What took you so long?
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-28-2009, 3:13 PM
piedrarc's Avatar
piedrarc piedrarc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Westbound I-210 to northbound I-5
Posts: 191
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

You got me! Internet punch and I tried to counter.
__________________
U.S. Marine Corps 1994-2003

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdm...ooQ5EXq2JQwCoQ
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-28-2009, 5:47 PM
Desert_Rat's Avatar
Desert_Rat Desert_Rat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shafter,Ca
Posts: 2,289
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelrain82 View Post
well swimming is not really a requirement in the corps. because there are many class 4 swimmers. all you really need to do is make sure your gear is water proofed and bycycle kick. or drown. but i think many people are also forgetting that the armies attrition rate maybe higher only because of the fact that they are humongous so they will have more people to drop. so if the army lost 10% of say 100.000 recruits yeah its alot but they still made 90,000 soldiers wheras say the marines get 10000 recruits and lose 20% they make 8,000 marines. the marines may have a higher percentage but the numbers are worse for the army.
This is true,I'll stand corrected.I'll say staying afloat is the minimum requirement.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 10-28-2009, 6:18 PM
PatriotnMore's Avatar
PatriotnMore PatriotnMore is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 7,068
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Swimming was a requirement when I went through, in fact, you had to tread water for five minutes if my memory serves me correctly, and you had to pass an water survival swim course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgseanp1 View Post
I could be completely wrong, but I've been told by more than one Navy person that swimming wasn't a requirement in bootcamp.
__________________
‎"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."
--James Madison
'Letter to Edmund Pendleton', 1792
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-28-2009, 6:31 PM
Irv's Avatar
Irv Irv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 302
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I think maybe in the late sixties we were a little more fit in the Navy than now.
I remember being at GQ scramble and they set different conditions including Zebra.
We had a few small round hatch (Zebra) within a large hatch that a 1st class could not pass thru and the Chief behind him reported the incident. The captain had all personnel up to Chief to lose weight and pass thru Zebra or be up be up before mast. About 90 percent passed and a few were given option of retirement.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 10-28-2009, 8:51 PM
mr. wonderful mr. wonderful is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 21
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

We had about 12 people out of a 240 man battery chaptered out at my basic at fort sill, for most of them they wanted to leave though. However I'm at fort sam houston right now and I've heard the dropout rate here is around 40% and I can see how too...
__________________
Приедьте и возьмите их
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-28-2009, 9:19 PM
zukieast zukieast is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peoples Republika of Kalifornia
Posts: 124
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I seem to recall when I was going through Paradise Island in 1989 we had a number of folks who "wanted" to get out after they realized they made a mistake but the Corps would not let them go.

Most of our attrition was due to medical, followed by those that tried to swack themselves because they could not just quite.

Not sure about the other branches, but I know if folks are given the option to quite and things get a little tough, they will walk away. We didnt have that option.

As far as 9wks vs 12wks every Marine leaves boot camp knowing which end of the rifle the bullet comes out of and has at least touched all major infantry based weapons and radios. Then factor in 4 weeks of weeding out the civilian in the recruit, 4 weeks weapons, 4 weeks tactics and combined arms training. Then follow on now with another 4 weeks post boot camp infantry based training, then off to MOS. A basic Marine gets more military training in 16weeks than the average Army trooper gets in a 4 years (infantry units excluded).

Folks that I know who went to the Army all did it mostly because the Army does offer more jobs than the Corps, had units closer to where they wanted to be. And finally less deployments than they did in the Corps.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-28-2009, 9:28 PM
dwa's Avatar
dwa dwa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: fremont
Posts: 2,452
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

royal marine commando basic is 32 weeks i think they win. since length of training equal proficiency.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-28-2009, 9:32 PM
CavTrooper's Avatar
CavTrooper CavTrooper is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Stewart, GA via SoCal!
Posts: 5,944
iTrader: 31 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zukieast View Post
I seem to recall when I was going through Paradise Island in 1989 we had a number of folks who "wanted" to get out after they realized they made a mistake but the Corps would not let them go.

Most of our attrition was due to medical, followed by those that tried to swack themselves because they could not just quite.

Not sure about the other branches, but I know if folks are given the option to quite and things get a little tough, they will walk away. We didnt have that option.

As far as 9wks vs 12wks every Marine leaves boot camp knowing which end of the rifle the bullet comes out of and has at least touched all major infantry based weapons and radios. Then factor in 4 weeks of weeding out the civilian in the recruit, 4 weeks weapons, 4 weeks tactics and combined arms training. Then follow on now with another 4 weeks post boot camp infantry based training, then off to MOS. A basic Marine gets more military training in 16weeks than the average Army trooper gets in a 4 years (infantry units excluded).

Folks that I know who went to the Army all did it mostly because the Army does offer more jobs than the Corps, had units closer to where they wanted to be. And finally less deployments than they did in the Corps.
You really fell for the BS didntcha?
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Requiem's Avatar
Requiem Requiem is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,727
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
You really fell for the BS didntcha?
Maybe things were different in 2008 than in 1989, but I can say that in 2008 all the above was not necessarily the case as zukieast stated.

Also, the Army has a tendency to get their deployments extended, almost all the time from what I hear. Marine units don't have that happen (unless I don't know about it).
__________________
.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-29-2009, 1:14 AM
steelrain82's Avatar
steelrain82 steelrain82 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: ventura county
Posts: 3,668
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwa View Post
royal marine commando basic is 32 weeks i think they win. since length of training equal proficiency.
from my understanding, their training is kind of like a combo of boot camp and infantry training and alot of class time learning different things like how to kill animals and stuff. they spend more time on stuff. we're taught the basics and learn the rest in our units. my cousins dad was from england and was a royal marine. and the rm's i met before the invasion think marines our crazy. we thought they were crazy. plus they learn to shoot out to 300meters where we learn to shoot out to 500. eitherway i think hey are bad ***.

as far as the army goes i know they get to go home during xmas if there in boot. in the marines now the only weapon you touch in boot is the m16. once you go to soi at least when i went in 2001 you learn the saw and grenades, and thats 5 weeks than off to the fleet. if your gonna be a 31/41/51 you spend 2 more weeks after the 11's have left. lav crewman spend 5 moe weeks at lav school across the street. pogues get to soi and spend like 17 days straight in the field, graduate han go to their respective schools. this is all how it was back then on the west coast not to sure about now. and from friends experience out of for years in the army you would get a one deployment whereas the marines would do 2 to iraq or afghanistan.

Last edited by steelrain82; 10-29-2009 at 1:28 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-29-2009, 1:30 AM
johnthomas's Avatar
johnthomas johnthomas is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Henderson Nevada
Posts: 7,001
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

If you can't make it thru boot, something is wrong with you. I know a few guys that failed to make it, their not doing so well in life either. All you have to do is keep your mouth shut and do what your told. Is that so hard?
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-29-2009, 5:42 AM
CavTrooper's Avatar
CavTrooper CavTrooper is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Stewart, GA via SoCal!
Posts: 5,944
iTrader: 31 / 97%
Default

What is the average "boots on the ground" deployment time for the Marine Corps? As I understand it, its 6 to 9 months. Soldiers deploy for 1e to 15 months at a time. In an average 4 year enlistment its common for a Soldier to spend 24+ months in harms way. Even if a Marine deploys more times, they spend less time with "boots on the ground".
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-29-2009, 7:11 AM
zukieast zukieast is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peoples Republika of Kalifornia
Posts: 124
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Marine Units do an average of 6-9 months, but they usually only get 1 year back at their home base. So in a 4 year period they can do just as many deployments as Army units.

In 1989 at weapons training we did rifle range (M16), 50 cal, M60, M249, MK19, AT4, .45, 9mm. Then during final phase we got to do greandes (thermite, smoke, frag, claymore).

Then more of the same in SOI.

I still support forward deployed units, just got back from the Asscrack and am headed back soon, I meet alot of troopers who were prior Marines, and most of them tell me that they switched because of jobs available and deployment schedules.

I did not fall for any BS!
It is all BS!
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-29-2009, 7:19 AM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Desert Area, CA
Posts: 12,814
iTrader: 84 / 99%
Default

There is no BS here, just common politics.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-29-2009, 9:51 AM
CavTrooper's Avatar
CavTrooper CavTrooper is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Stewart, GA via SoCal!
Posts: 5,944
iTrader: 31 / 97%
Default

Soldiers are supposed to get at least one year of dwell time between deployments, in reality, its usually a lot shorter than that. Soldiers get moved between units so often to plus up before deployments they end up rotating through with sometimes as little as 6 to 8 months at home. When equating boots on the ground time its basically a 2 to 1 ratio, 2 deployments for a Marine is 1 deployment for a Soldier. Add in the ranges, gunnery, FTEs, NTC, JRTC, and whatever schools you have the pleasure of attending, dwell time for a Soldier can be very short. We all have our up and down side, we all have our good and bad people, all have our weak and strong points, we are two different branches with two different missions. If you recall a few years ago, the Marine Corps leadership was complaining about Iraq, it wasn't their type of mission, they weren't trained and equipped for SASO ops, etc, etc. They wanted to only be in AF. Its not a negative dig at the Corps, its just a fact, they aren't geared for that type of mission, and don't have the ability or desire to adapt to the current type and tempo of operation going on around the world. As for training, we all receive great training, a lot of the Marine Corps training is administered by the Army. That's why I can't get butthurt when a Marine tells me they have the best training, its true, because they are trained b the best! On top of that, things that are reserved for the "special" units in the Corps are things that we do as our everyday gig, like airborne, air assault and such.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:00 AM
5hundo 5hundo is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,210
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

We actually did not loose one person in our flight to attrition... (although, we should have lost one)

Our squadron lost 2 in total (both from our sister flight). One was an injury and he didn't want to leave. He was allowed to return the next year. The other just quit after a really bad day...

The one person we should have lost was named John Klapp. The moron actually ended up getting a commission!!! Our FTO (a Captain - Basically a DI for officers) used to yell out during PT "Don't die on my Klapp!" (probably because he thought it was a distinct possibility). We went to PT with the PJs one day and the idiot almost drowned in the pool! The guy was terrible...

I can't tell you how many times myself and Jeremy Bower (another Cadet, who has since passed on) had to pull him off the ground during PT. We'd do the push-up and while resting at the top, myself and another cadet would pull him up by his collar. I wish he hadn't have made it...
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:21 AM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Desert Area, CA
Posts: 12,814
iTrader: 84 / 99%
Default

You will always have those Sh*tbag soldiers to deal with.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-29-2009, 5:31 PM
phroggunner's Avatar
phroggunner phroggunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 225
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
Soldiers get moved between units so often to plus up before deployments they end up rotating through with sometimes as little as 6 to 8 months at home. When equating boots on the ground time its basically a 2 to 1 ratio, 2 deployments for a Marine is 1 deployment for a Soldier.
Believe me, I do not envy the army's deployment to dwell ratio. Is this rotation a necessity, or just a gross mismanagement of manpower? I don't know the answer to this, but I hope it's not the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
If you recall a few years ago, the Marine Corps leadership was complaining about Iraq, it wasn't their type of mission, they weren't trained and equipped for SASO ops, etc, etc. They wanted to only be in AF.
By utilizing the Marines so heavily as an occupying force, the U.S. is slowly losing it's most effective offensive tool. In order to accomplish the assigned mission, Marine units are forced to narrow their focus of training to current operations rather than the amphibious and expeditionary warfare they are supposed to specialize in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
Its not a negative dig at the Corps, its just a fact, they aren't geared for that type of mission, and don't have the ability or desire to adapt to the current type and tempo of operation going on around the world.
Don't have the ability or desire to adapt? This is not a fact, but a far stretch of the imagination. With such a focus on small unit leadership, the Corps excels at adaptation. The Marines have proven their ability time and again in Iraq. Who was sent back when the Army started losing control of the Al Anbar province? Who regained control of Fallujah? After the bulk of the insurgency left Fallujah and increased their attacks in Ramadi, the Marines were shifted and regained control their too. Flying casualty evacuation missions in Anbar in 05, 06, and 07 I had a pretty comprehensive perspective on who was kickin butt, or gettin their butts kicked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
As for training, we all receive great training, a lot of the Marine Corps training is administered by the Army. That's why I can't get butthurt when a Marine tells me they have the best training, its true, because they are trained b the best! On top of that, things that are reserved for the "special" units in the Corps are things that we do as our everyday gig, like airborne, air assault and such.
With a limited amount of school seats available, the Corps has to prioritize and send only Marines who will most likely utilize that training. This is why you don't see every other swinging dick sporting a pair of jump wings as they sit behind their desk.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-29-2009, 7:04 PM
dwa's Avatar
dwa dwa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: fremont
Posts: 2,452
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phroggunner View Post
Believe me, I do not envy the army's deployment to dwell ratio. Is this rotation a necessity, or just a gross mismanagement of manpower? I don't know the answer to this, but I hope it's not the latter.

its because we have more commitments than anyone else.

By utilizing the Marines so heavily as an occupying force, the U.S. is slowly losing it's most effective offensive tool. In order to accomplish the assigned mission, Marine units are forced to narrow their focus of training to current operations rather than the amphibious and expeditionary warfare they are supposed to specialize in.

really the most effective tool huh? besides getting you feet wet what can you do that no one else can? ready your history the army has done more amphibious operations than the Marine Corps, the army has also done many joint operations so maybe you could drop the indoctrination crap?

Don't have the ability or desire to adapt? This is not a fact, but a far stretch of the imagination. With such a focus on small unit leadership, the Corps excels at adaptation. The Marines have proven their ability time and again in Iraq. Who was sent back when the Army started losing control of the Al Anbar province? Who regained control of Fallujah? After the bulk of the insurgency left Fallujah and increased their attacks in Ramadi, the Marines were shifted and regained control their too. Flying casualty evacuation missions in Anbar in 05, 06, and 07 I had a pretty comprehensive perspective on who was kickin butt, or gettin their butts kicked.

im sure you can adapt just like everybody else, as for saving the day are you serious!! tell yourself whatever you need to bro

With a limited amount of school seats available, the Corps has to prioritize and send only Marines who will most likely utilize that training. This is why you don't see every other swinging dick sporting a pair of jump wings as they sit behind their desk.
you'd have more school slots of you spent less money on commercials. the American Marine is among the elite of conventional fighting forces but then again so is the Army Soldier, you do have cooler dress uniforms however.[/B]
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 10-29-2009, 8:30 PM
Desert_Rat's Avatar
Desert_Rat Desert_Rat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shafter,Ca
Posts: 2,289
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Maybe things were different in 2008 than in 1989, but I can say that in 2008 all the above was not necessarily the case as zukieast stated.
Also, the Army has a tendency to get their deployments extended, almost all the time from what I hear. Marine units don't have that happen (unless I don't know about it).
In 94 we fired infantry weaps.(firearms)m-16,m-60,m-249,m9,.45,m203,threw grenades(1)

then on to MCT,I was a motor-t pog.we had to break ALL weaps down for time,then we fired them day and night.again m16,m9,m60,m249,.45,at-4,m2,mk19,m203

then on to the fleet,I was lucky enough to be in a 1st mardiv unit,all of the above at least monthly + drill on getting the guns up and running in the turrets,HMMWV,5 ton and LVS.the engage targets from turrets.
The m240g came along after I had been in the FMF for a few years.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 10-29-2009, 8:39 PM
zukieast zukieast is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Peoples Republika of Kalifornia
Posts: 124
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Somewhere I seem to recall a few articles in Army times calling for Army units to examine Marine Corps doctrine and military ethos in the Marine Corps ability to adapt and work with what they had.

As for commercials the Marine Corps has had 1 motto "The Few, The Proud, The Marines"

The Army changes its theme every couple years trying to attract recruits
“I Want You For the U.S. Army”
"Be All You Can Be"
"An Army of One"
"Army Strong"

The Army has faced the problem for years of trying to figure out who they are.

The Marine Corps has always known who they are. Also, the Marine Corps mission statement has never changed, and are beholden to the US Navy for funding, so they have less schools and resources for combat arms. The Marine Corps has no need of thousands of jump qualed troops. Cant land a C130 on an Amphib or Gator Freightor.

As a fighting force the Marine Corps was never designed with the Logistics in mind to support missions longer than 90 days. A Marine MEU goes in completely self sustained for 90days with all logistics in place ready to fight. All equipment and supplies are rolled off the ship at 1 time.

Specialized Army units may get to jump into places ahead of main battle group, but they lack the overall logistics to support a long term mission, and lack the heavy firepower required for sustained operations. They have to wait for their armor, aircraft, heavy artillery, medical units to catch up. They go in with what is on their backs and what is dropped from the sky.

Both sides have limitations, but they both augment and compliment one anothers capabilities. If the Army could do it all, then there would be no requirement for 2 sets of combat branches. Back to mission statement and that sets the two apart.

Plus the Navy guys get to boss their own little grunts around without having to leave their ships!
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:18 PM
steelrain82's Avatar
steelrain82 steelrain82 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: ventura county
Posts: 3,668
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

as far as the amphibious aspect. the army learned and had to be trained by the marines how to do it. the same thing with close air support. and if the marines werent so bad a@@ why would the army constantly try to get the marine corps disbanded. the marines are shock troops we are meant to come in beat the crap out of shore defenses, secure a beach head and than let the army take over. the army is meant for the extended fight and occupation. thats why they are an army not a corps. both groups have their jobs but the marines have adapted to help doing the armies role as well as maintaining their expiditionary role. every country/enemy that we have fought has always feared the Marine Corps and given them the utmost respect. the jihadists all want to kill americans and go get their virgins, but they are held in even greater esteem if they kill marines.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:47 PM
M47_Dragon's Avatar
M47_Dragon M47_Dragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,263
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwa View Post
ready your history the army has done more amphibious operations than the Marine Corp[/B]
Say what now?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbob76 View Post
I'm in the process of de-humping all my Glocks.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 10-29-2009, 10:58 PM
dwa's Avatar
dwa dwa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: fremont
Posts: 2,452
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelrain82 View Post
as far as the amphibious aspect. the army learned and had to be trained by the marines how to do it. citation needed

the same thing with close air support. and if the marines weren't so bad a@@ why would the army constantly try to get the marine corps disbanded.
When? the army's too busy trying to reinvent the Internet to disband something it has nothing to do with? however it will be hard to justify a large presence if the efv is not built after the current conflict (read a white paper on it

the marines are shock troops we are meant to come in beat the crap out of shore defenses, secure a beach head and than let the army take over.

yep and the army has done the same thing, you can be proud of your branch without over inflating what you do you mission is whatever your assign to do remember, you guys are flexible

the army is meant for the extended fight and occupation. that's why they are an army not a corps. both groups have their jobs but the marines have adapted to help doing the armies role as well as maintaining their expeditionary role. like how the army adapted to work with the marines in the pacific while maintain the ability to fight large battles in Europe?

every country/enemy that we have fought has always feared the Marine Corps and given them the utmost respect.

as they have most American units in general

the jihadists all want to kill Americans and go get their virgins, but they are held in even greater esteem if they kill marines. citation needed
so you cant say that you are good without putting others down,

when i was a pfc i was sweeping brass at the shoot house at schofield barracks Hawaii. we were sharing the sight with the marines, my buddy and i were talking about how it was funny that the army and marines talk **** about each other yet theres a marine in the next room over sweeping up brass, a marine e-5 overheard and came by to say he appreciated that.... thought that would have something to do with this conversation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:45 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy