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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:22 PM
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Default How many have been diagnosed with PTSD?

OK boys, I have, and my PTSD counselor is curious.....no names, just how many.. I was 8 years LEO and 27 total military. I know there are many of you that have 20-plus LEO and you have to have some PTSD!

Last edited by 11Z50; 09-30-2009 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:27 AM
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Not a cop or military, but I was diagnosed with it after being involved in a violent crime. I think the diagnosis was BS though.
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Old 10-04-2009, 2:10 PM
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I'm curious how many are going to admit that in an open forum. IMHO, things like that need to be kept to themselves.
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Old 10-04-2009, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 11Z50 View Post
OK boys, I have, and my PTSD counselor is curious.....no names, just how many.. I was 8 years LEO and 27 total military. I know there are many of you that have 20-plus LEO and you have to have some PTSD!
If I may ask; would it be as a result primarily from your military, rather than your le time. Is you doc able to attribute it to one service more than the other.

I know we as leos see some really horrible things, most leos don't ever shoot someone during their le career. Obviously military people in Iraq and Afghanistan do and have.

I say that realizing that PTSD is not necessarily just a result of shooting someone in a war, because as I mentioned, leos see some pretty horrible things; especially when it comes to children.
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Old 10-04-2009, 6:41 PM
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I'd have to say my 8 years as a street cop definitely contributed. You can't help but see and experience some terrible things that will stay with you forever. As a soldier, one may serve many years without combat. When combat does occur, it is fast and intense. As an LEO it is more of a day-to-day experience that leaves one somewhat numb after awhile. I'd say that after 2-3 years of working a beat a cop has seen enough things to reach that level.

PTSD doesn't mean you are crazy; it just means you have seen and done some things that will be "junk in the trunk". Nothing to be ashamed of.

Last edited by 11Z50; 10-04-2009 at 6:46 PM..
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Old 10-04-2009, 7:16 PM
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I have been in one (1) gun fight in my life. And fingers crossed it will be my only. I had the unusual opportunity to be in close touch with a number of active LEO at the time, and they all said, it was a matter of 'when' not 'if' PTSD will occur. I have never had bad dreams, or second thoughts about what happened. I feel I did the best I could in the situation I was placed in. But it's in the back of my mind.. every day.
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Old 10-04-2009, 7:57 PM
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PTSD is an anxiety disorder. It's not something that can be picked up from "day-to-day" stressful interactions. It requires at least one significant, life-threatening trauma. Certain symptoms mark a person with PTSD, including hypervigilance/hyperarousal and flashbacks. If a person doesn't have these two reactions at the least, then that person most likely doesn't have PTSD but some other anxiety disorder.

More info about PTSD is here: National Center for PTSD.
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Old 10-04-2009, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masameet View Post
PTSD is an anxiety disorder. It's not something that can be picked up from "day-to-day" stressful interactions. It requires at least one significant, life-threatening trauma. Certain symptoms mark a person with PTSD, including hypervigilance/hyperarousal and flashbacks. If a person doesn't have these two reactions at the least, then that person most likely doesn't have PTSD but some other anxiety disorder.

More info about PTSD is here: National Center for PTSD.
Understood. What if though, in the course of 2-3 years on the bricks, a cop sees/experiences 4-5 life threatening experiences? A soldier will spend a year or so in combat, and will experience 10-12 life threatening experiences at least. I'm no psychologist, but cops and soldiers see not just one, but many life-threatening and profoundly terrible experiences.

Last edited by 11Z50; 10-04-2009 at 8:22 PM..
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Old 10-04-2009, 8:56 PM
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From what I have read, not everybody who undergoes extreme, life-threatening stress will get PTSD. It's not a given.

Anyway I would hope that any LEO, combat military veteran or civilian with PTSD would seek counseling and learn behavior modification techniques that will enable them to extinguish their PTSD manifestations. Self-medication with alcohol is the wrong treatment.
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Old 10-04-2009, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by masameet View Post
From what I have read, not everybody who undergoes extreme, life-threatening stress will get PTSD. It's not a given.

Anyway I would hope that any LEO, combat military veteran or civilian with PTSD would seek counseling and learn behavior modification techniques that will enable them to extinguish their PTSD manifestations. Self-medication with alcohol is the wrong treatment.
Sounds like you have read, but not done, much. You should not be condescending and judgmental when people just want to chat about a subject. BTW, I'm having a bottled water right now.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:41 PM
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PTSD doesn't mean you are crazy; it just means you have seen and done some things that will be "junk in the trunk". Nothing to be ashamed of.
I hope nothing I wrote gave you the impression that I thought that, because I certainly do not.

I certainly have memories of stuff, but thankfully, at least as far as I know, no PSTD. I generally only recall them when discussions like this occur, but do not dwell on them.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Z50 View Post
Sounds like you have read, but not done, much. You should not be condescending and judgmental when people just want to chat about a subject. BTW, I'm having a bottled water right now.
yzernie already gave the shot across the bow regarding cops discussing psych problems on this board. Other LEOs are certainly free to chime in and discuss.

Believe it or not, but I do know about PTSD and treatment.

I'm not a LEO and most likely will not become one. And yes, I know about PTSD because I've lived with complex PTSD almost all of my life. I know the symptoms, I know how my body and mind react when stressed, I know how my brain reacts to different SSRIs. I can even spot other PTSDers. On another forum I even moderate a subforum for PTSD survivors/thrivers.

And you know what I've found that is truly consistent among most PTSD folk?

If they have not been able to process their pain and move away from it emotionally, if they cannot use logic and reason to understand themselves, if they have not learned how to recognize their triggers and stop themselves, most PTSD folk have a hard time articulating that pain and their thoughts. They're so wrapped up in reliving the crap that ruined their lives that living in the here-and-now is almost impossible
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:08 PM
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I've watched a few of my coworkers go through what you have described about. One such man used to carry his bible with him on patrol. We were the first to arrive at the crime scene left by the infamous Kevin Cooper homicides. Within a few weeks he was acting out. Many of us tried to get him the help he needed but he refused. Within a few months he had discarded his bible and was doing things he would have never done. Within a year he was committing felonies, was placed on medical leave and was eventually fired.

How is it that 2 of the three of us who responded to that scene coped with the situation and one did not. I'm certainly no psych but my guess is, like masameet said, he refused to let it go and get on with his life. One of the happiest days of my life (if I'm still alive by then!!) will be to watch that bastage Cooper suffer as he takes his last breath.
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I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.

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Old 10-05-2009, 12:04 AM
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... PTSD doesn't mean you are crazy; it just means you have seen and done some things that will be "junk in the trunk". Nothing to be ashamed of.
See, this is what I think you misunderstand about PTSD.

PTSD is mostly reactive -- it is not a matter of being inured. The mind and body react negatively because certain chemicals in the brain necessary for optimal brain functioning are in deficit.

And from my experience PTSD people tend to feel too much shame and guilt. They blame themselves for their trauma. They tend to run away and hide. They hurt themselves physically.

I do not doubt that you have been misdiagnosed.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:07 AM
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yzernie, I lived about 4 miles from the Ryan house in Chino Hills when that happened. We used to keep our slider open during the night to get some air in our bedroom in the summer. We stopped doing that after that incident and I started keeping my off duty in my nightstand instead of the closet shelf.

I certainly hope he soon gets what's coming to him.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:32 PM
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My PTSD is moderate, and manageable, and I am working with a noted Police Psychologist as part of a study on cops who are also military. I have made a great deal of progress over the last year and I am doing better.

Retired and yzernie both have feelings like I have on some cases I worked. I thought I let them go, but really I didn't. Sometimes, things come bubbling up years later that are hard to deal with.

I only asked the question in the OP because I was asked by my counselor. Since nobody that was a cop or soldier has any relevant info I guess we're done.

Last edited by 11Z50; 10-05-2009 at 10:47 PM..
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Old 10-06-2009, 4:26 PM
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My PTSD is moderate, and manageable
Good.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:45 PM
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None of my multiple personalities have ever been diagnosed with PTSD.....


Probably because I try and find the funny or ironic side of what ever has happened to me. I also don't let things build up inside. The sooner you get it out, the sooner you can deal with it and put it behind you. Not forget it, but use it as a tool for the next crisis situation you or your partners get mixed up in.
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Old 10-07-2009, 3:09 PM
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Mild or not, I'm glad to read you're on the road to recovery.

For sure I found that honesty to the self, brutal honesty, was and continues to be cathartic. Being able to listen too, I think, is key to healing. Most of us pay too much attention to the words of others when we're so deaf to our own thoughts. For who else knows us better? Thirdly, trusting oneself leads to finding the ones who can be trusted. All of these things, as well as others, lead to a new-found level of mental toughness and appreciation for being alive. It's like reaching a level of heightened consciousness and awareness, of being so in the moment. Intense but also so wonderful.

Laurence Gonzales's book, "Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why," might interest you. A few years ago (at Burning Man of all places! lol) I read this book from cover to cover. Gave me insight into the human traits of hardiness, resiliency and determination, and how they work together in a person's mind and heart to make him or her survive life-threatening hardships.

For sure being kind to the self is the greatest gift a PTSD survivor can give himself. May your gift always please you.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:07 PM
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i have ptsd from the war. im not ashamed of it. i didtnt get shot or wounded but i was in the infantry and saw and did my share of stuff. ive learned the best way is to talk about it. but nobody wants to listen. in truth most people ask but once you start talking you can kinda tell they wish they didnt. the war is an oddity to them. something in the news that happens to others. the only time i truly feel comfortable is around vets who've been there. im not saying i dont feel comfortable around others. i just feel better for some reason. i hate how people seem to think that vets with ptsd are crazy or they think flashbacks are like they are in the movies. never once did i yell incoming and get all crazy. i remember when i first got back though was around the 4th of july and i was scared as hell. i remember back at the base we just got out of battalion formation and arty was firing at a nearby range and it sounded real close. all you saw was a battalion of marines run for cover. we all got up slowly and than at the same tim everyone started laughing.

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Old 10-08-2009, 3:26 PM
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are any of the the following sysmptoms of PTSD?

1.) constant hypervigilance of surroundings when outside the home

2.) waking up in the middle of night to listen if everything is ok(not all the time)

3.) always ready to strike without hesitation in a split-second when someone approaching makes a false/threatening move.

Other than that the said person is very relaxed and cheerful when inside his home. he/she has no nightmares or depression.
thanks

Last edited by pachador; 10-08-2009 at 3:30 PM..
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Old 10-08-2009, 3:28 PM
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1) and 2) I do these.

3)...uhm, this one, not so much.
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Old 10-08-2009, 7:09 PM
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I do number 3 when awoken or caught from behind. My wife wakes me up by tapping my feet and standing aways back. And it's been five years
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Old 10-09-2009, 6:51 AM
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1 and 2 for me, sometimes 3.
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Old 10-09-2009, 6:53 AM
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will "Pot" help ? austin powers babyyyyy
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Old 10-09-2009, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pachador View Post
are any of the the following sysmptoms of PTSD?

1.) constant hypervigilance of surroundings when outside the home

2.) waking up in the middle of night to listen if everything is ok(not all the time)

3.) always ready to strike without hesitation in a split-second when someone approaching makes a false/threatening move.
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will "Pot" help ? austin powers babyyyyy
Hypervigilance, insomnia and paranoia coupled with self-destructiveness ... These things can be controlled, if not altogether let go, via behavior modification, cognitive therapy and the right SSRI. Writing about one's experiences also is therapeutic, as it leads to thinking and maybe self-insight as to the conditioned stimuli that elicited the conditioned reflexive action/thoughts.

Like alcohol, marijuana numbs the brain and brings no actual benefit to getting beyond the trauma. All it does is delay healing.

For sure, see the human brain as any other intact organ that gets injured. Healing takes time, and the right set of brain chemicals (dopamine, epinephrine, et al.), whether natural or synthetic, make healing more probable.
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Old 10-09-2009, 3:55 PM
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Well I also do 1&2 along with 3. I really hate taking my meds though.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:43 PM
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will "Pot" help ? austin powers babyyyyy
I think pot does actually help... Anybody know if it's true that if you get diagnosed with PTSD you cannot buy firearms here? If so that sucks for war vets.

Last edited by VHK; 10-09-2009 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:33 AM
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My local newspaper published the following story online today. I believe some of you guys and gals might find it beneficial ...
Quote:
Cops' biggest enemy can be mental stress
By Tom Barnidge
Contra Costa Times columnist
Posted: 10/12/2009 04:27:15 PM PDT
Updated: 10/13/2009 0401 AM PDT

MORE THAN 30 years have passed, but Dick Augusta remembers with vivid detail the day his career as a California Highway Patrol officer effectively ended.

He was working the "drunk watch" shift late one night on a rural road near Bethel Island, when he pulled over a car that had been weaving erratically and asked the driver for identification. When she turned her back on him and he focused his flashlight on her actions in the front seat, a male passenger in the back flung open his door and "...

Well, let Augusta, a lifelong Antioch resident, explain:

"When I faced him — he was only a couple of feet away — he had a gun on the door edge pointed right at me. We weren't wearing (bulletproof) vests in those days, so I turned sideways to cut down his angle.

"He fired two shots — one missed and one hit. It punctured my left kidney and lodged next to my spine, just missing a renal artery. The impact knocked me to the ground like being hit by a linebacker."

He said the attack unfolded almost in slow motion. He felt blood soaking his uniform as he drew his weapon to return fire before the car, whose occupants were wanted for armed robbery, sped away. Soon a priest was giving him last rites and his family was awaiting news of his surgery.

It was the definition of trauma and an early example of post-traumatic stress syndrome.

When Augusta returned to duty nearly a year later, he realized he was no longer suited for the job. He couldn't push the incident out of his mind.

"At the slightest provocation, I was ready to draw my gun," he said.

So he quit at 38 and went to work for the postal service.

The story helps explain why he and fellow former trooper Andy O'Hara teamed up to create The Badge of Life in January 2008, a program focused on the mental health and emotional well-being of police officers.

Their Web site (http://badgeoflife.com) tells of the seminars, lectures and DVDs that are available free to police agencies. Notable among the takers is the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office, which incorporates elements of the program in its academy training.

Augusta and O'Hara started the organization on their own dime — grateful supporters have since donated funding — because of the growing number of police suicides in the United States. More than 140 were reported last year.

"None of them were attributed to the stress and trauma of the job," August said, disbelievingly. "They were all in the generic area of 'personal problems.'"‰"

He said a cop's traumatic experience comes in one of two forms: (1) immediate and overwhelming, as was his on an East Contra Costa County roadside, or (2) cumulative and imperceptible, from an endless barrage of confrontations, car chases, arrests, shootings and traffic fatalities. "Twenty years of being a cop in the street is almost equal to being a soldier in a combat zone," he said.

A police officer often is his own worst enemy because of the macho mask he wears. ("Cops never want to show weakness," Augusta said.) Not surprisingly, they are reluctant to undergo psychological therapy.

"Every police officer should see a therapist of his choice for one hour every year," Augusta said, "just like a dental checkup or a flu shot. The time to do this is before there's a crisis."

Take it from someone who was lying on the road, watching his life flash before his eyes.
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Old 10-19-2009, 4:12 PM
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im second gen diagnosed. my dad was in nam and has a pretty messed up head. it just rolled off onto me i guess.
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Old 10-19-2009, 4:22 PM
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I think I mis-read some of these posts at first. I thought I had entered into an incontinence forum, with so many people claiming that they go #1 and #2 while in bed. Then I realized what everybody was referring to.
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Old 11-11-2009, 9:54 PM
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Do any of you have an opinion on whether or not a veteran who has been diagnosed with PTSD and is on 100% disibility from it should be able to own firearms? By 100%, I mean that the VA has determined that they cannot function or hold a job because of the disorder.
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Old 11-12-2009, 5:59 AM
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I think our LEO opinions are irrelevant to this medical issue.
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Old 11-12-2009, 8:04 AM
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AgentAK AgentAK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire in the Hole View Post
I think our LEO opinions are irrelevant to this medical issue.
Well, not really. It's the LEO's that have to go out into the world and deal with these people. The thread is about any of you ever suffering through PTSD, so if any have, they should be able to understand the frame of mind of other individuals who have suffered.

I'm very curious to the opinions of those who enforce the law and have to deal with all types of personalities. I am a member of the VVA and and well informed about PTSD and the ongoing study that in some cases, it may be caused by a TBI (traumatic brain injury) in some veterans. This can be caused by many things, including explosions, being tossed around, etc.

As a LEO, do you feel comfortable knowing that someone has been diagnosed with PTSD and has been deemed to be 100% disabled, unable to hold a job because of it and is "unable to interact with others" owning firearms?
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  #35  
Old 11-12-2009, 8:14 AM
professionalcoyotehunter professionalcoyotehunter is offline
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I dont suffer from it I enjoy it!
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  #36  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:33 AM
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steelrain82 has probably best insight (that I've read here) on combat PTSD. Lots of other mumbo-jumbo...
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