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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #281  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Coming from two guys who most likely don't own any guns and have no experience at all I expect your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Now I will guess your ages as 15 and 17?
Shotgun is the perfect home defense gun your just too young and ignorant to know that but as you age you will hopefully become smarter. Fingers crossed for both of you. And yes I have read your previous posts just to check your knowledge base.
You are embarrassing your parents!!!
I don't know, I would guess I own more then an average postman being paranoid about his supervisor spying on him.
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  #282  
Old 11-09-2018, 7:31 PM
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I have a few loaded rifles and shotguns around my house. From a pump shotgun to a beneli semi auto shotgun to a Ruger mini 30 and a a Henry lever action .357. Because of the way that my house is set up it may not be possible to get to my preferred gun. The best gun to use is the gun you have available
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  #283  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:02 PM
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And Michaels posts prove he knows nothing about the use of shotguns even when shown a video showing how affective they actually are.
He seems real dissapointed that he doesn't have any trap experience when trap experience doesn't relate to the topic. I guess when he questioned my experience with shotguns and I responded he couldn't handle it.
And despite what he thinks the military used model 12 Winchesters.
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  #284  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:05 PM
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MyOdessa
So would that mean you own any guns or are you just being funny?
I ask because I had more barrels put on in 2018 than most calgunners have guns.
I am guessing your garbage can and recycling bin have never seen this many empties?
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  #285  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:17 PM
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I wasn't going to post on this thread any longer, but, some of you are beyond hope here. Only one or maybe two, but, hopeless. This thread that started off so honest and simple has gone totally off reason. Why don't some of you expert's re-read the OP's first post. Sit back, THINK for a minute[if possible], and reboot. Friggin' unreal what happened here.
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  #286  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:30 PM
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Pennstater
Some of the experts read his original post which compared lever actions to pump shotguns and responded with real world answers.
BUT
You are on CalGuns where alot of the EXPERTS talk home defense by quoting what they saw Mark Wahlberg do in a movie or what the navy uses 16 inch guns on.
Luckily we have a dozen posters who regularly post the truth so all the myths don't ruin the website.
Post about headspace and you'll die laughing at all the crazy responses.
And yes the OP asked about shotguns before I responded but as you may have read that already you will have to explain it to those that can't read.
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  #287  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:47 PM
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LynnJr, Ok. Op asked about HD possibly using a lever rifle. FIRST. Please, stay on topic here. Shotguns came later. Op asked about lever guns. This was the topic at hand. Get over the shotgun, AR, and whatever, it was a very simple question regarding lever rifles. Nothing more, nothing less. Answer THAT question and let everything else alone. Start your own expert opinions on what may be needed in such an event.
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  #288  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
Does anyone rely on a lever action rifle as their primary home defense gun? It seems to me that a lever action rifle like the Henry Big Boy Carbine in .357 magnum would be roughly similar in power and speed to a pump action shotgun, but would be shorter in length and have less recoil.

Or I could get a Ruger Mini 14. I'm reading that the newer versions of the Mini 14 are plenty accurate for shorter ranges and are reliable. Currently I have only 9mm pistols but I want to buy a long gun soon.

Thanks for any advice.
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Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
LynnJr, Ok. Op asked about HD possibly using a lever rifle. FIRST. Please, stay on topic here. Shotguns came later. Op asked about lever guns. This was the topic at hand. Get over the shotgun, AR, and whatever, it was a very simple question regarding lever rifles. Nothing more, nothing less. Answer THAT question and let everything else alone. Start your own expert opinions on what may be needed in such an event.
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  #289  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:05 PM
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Sad that we eat our own.
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  #290  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:08 PM
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Pennstater
As I suspected you didn't read his question did you?
Anytime I see a webhandle I know what to expect.

TMB1
Your pointing out the obvious but they don't understand it because they didn't read the question.
If you notice I only post in a very limited number of the forums here but read most of them.
You won't find me posting on the pistol forum because I own less than 10 pistols.
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  #291  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Canucky View Post
Sad that we eat our own.

We are not eating our own we are trying to educate them and it becomes more difficult when the trolls start posting.
We had one poster get upset that I mentioned a shotgun only to find out the OP compared it to a lever gun.
The OP has been spot on through all of this.

OP
You posted you didn't understand why birdshot works so well. At home defense distances it doesn't spread out that much and weighs twice what a pistol round weighs. It does a great deal of damage while not killing your neighbors nextdoor. They are easy to aim and shoot in the dark and have a bigger pattern than any rifle or pistol bullet Hitting the target is easier. Buckshot does the same thing as birdshot but travels to far in my humble opinion and it doesn't spread like birdshot does.
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  #292  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
I guess when he questioned my experience with shotguns...
Please, regale us more with the tales of using birdshot during trench warfare at the Rod and Gun club in peacetime Germany. What _is_ the best O/U for home defense? Or would you just go with a single barrel? Krieghoff, perhaps?

-- Michael

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  #293  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:08 PM
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I hadn't ever thought about using a levergun as my primary defensive firearm until now. I'm moving onto a small tract of old-growth timber I bought a couple months back up in Northern Idaho. Neighbors say there's moose, grizzleys, and elk. Supposedly the grizzleys usually take off when they see you but a moose will see you as a territory threat and tend to go on the offensive. I have a plan.

I think my go-to defense gun for "around the ranch" is going to be my Winchester 16-inch Trapper 94 in .44mag. I'll be feeding it some rather stiff-loaded 300gr Nosler softpoints for good power and penetration on large dangerous game at 15 - 45 yards.

I'm sure I'll find a lighter, easier to carry solution after I've been up there a while - but the Trapper should do for now.
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  #294  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
We are not eating our own we are trying to educate them and it becomes more difficult when the trolls start posting.
We had one poster get upset that I mentioned a shotgun only to find out the OP compared it to a lever gun.
The OP has been spot on through all of this.

OP
You posted you didn't understand why birdshot works so well. At home defense distances it doesn't spread out that much and weighs twice what a pistol round weighs. It does a great deal of damage while not killing your neighbors nextdoor. They are easy to aim and shoot in the dark and have a bigger pattern than any rifle or pistol bullet Hitting the target is easier. Buckshot does the same thing as birdshot but travels to far in my humble opinion and it doesn't spread like birdshot does.
You just don't get it. Be well.
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  #295  
Old 11-10-2018, 4:10 AM
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Actually I am the only one posting with any real world experience.
Michael's posts are a complete waste of bandwidth as a simple Google search shows what I posted is true and accurate but I get that he is butthurt.
Did any of the experts ever find out how to read a PITA yearbook yet maybe Michael figured it out?
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  #296  
Old 11-10-2018, 6:39 AM
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Awesome. He's "the only one posting with any real world experience".
This is all we need to know. You win. I'm off to the range today to shoot a couple lever rifles. Real world experience. Bye-bye.
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  #297  
Old 11-10-2018, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
NoHeavyHitter

I hadn't ever thought about using a levergun as my primary defensive firearm until now. I'm moving onto a small tract of old-growth timber I bought a couple months back up in Northern Idaho. Neighbors say there's moose, grizzleys, and elk. Supposedly the grizzleys usually take off when they see you but a moose will see you as a territory threat and tend to go on the offensive. I have a plan.

I think my go-to defense gun for "around the ranch" is going to be my Winchester 16-inch Trapper 94 in .44mag. I'll be feeding it some rather stiff-loaded 300gr Nosler softpoints for good power and penetration on large dangerous game at 15 - 45 yards.

I'm sure I'll find a lighter, easier to carry solution after I've been up there a while - but the Trapper should do for now.

You should be fine, my good man. A 300 grain .44 from a 16" rifle barrel has as much energy as a 1 oz. 12 ga. slug, but with far better penetration potential due to the advantage of the projectile design (unless one might use a Brenneke brand slug) especially when using a hardcast lead wide or long flat nose (WFN or LFN) bullet.

I think the only lighter, easier to carry solution would be a big sturdy single action whirlenpopper, and the carbine is as quick to mount and acquire a sight picture as can be a handgun. The revolver's advantage would be ease in deployment in bad-breath distances and in overall carry.


Many folks may overlook the fact that a 20"-barrelled pistol caliber lever carbine, let alone! a 16" is noticeably shorter and definitely lighter than any decent 18" 12 ga pump gun. As I noted much earlier in this thread, I have relied on a 16" .357 1892 as one of three firearms serving in a HD role.
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  #298  
Old 11-10-2018, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
Awesome. He's "the only one posting with any real world experience".
This is all we need to know. You win. I'm off to the range today to shoot a couple lever rifles. Real world experience. Bye-bye.

And again how is going to the range real world experience?
Are you going there at 3AM home invasion time?
Are you dragging it out from under your bed?
Are you shooting at 5-7 yards?
Tell us about follow up shots and how your vision liked them.
Tell us about your hearing after firing a round indoors.
I know people like to post but you really need to think first about what your saying.
My guess is your going to the range between 8 and 5 your wearing hearing protection and glasses and shooting a minimum of 25 yards but most likely 50 or 100.
Does any of that make sense to you? Is that the same as being woken up in the middle of the night and shooting inside your home?
But kudos to you for owning a gun and shooting it as anything helps.
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  #299  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:14 AM
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Been thinking about getting a Henry .410 Lever shotgun. Because of the amount of glass I have in my house and how close the neighbors houses are around us, I have no desire for penetration that may travel through an intruder out a window and through the neighbors window. Have no desire to damage my neighbors or their homes.
Remember, we are responsible for knowing what else in in the direction we are firing.
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  #300  
Old 11-10-2018, 11:25 AM
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Been thinking about getting a Henry .410 Lever shotgun. Because of the amount of glass I have in my house and how close the neighbors houses are around us, I have no desire for penetration that may travel through an intruder out a window and through the neighbors window. Have no desire to damage my neighbors or their homes.
Remember, we are responsible for knowing what else in in the direction we are firing.
There are no magic bullets. Any projectile capable of involuntary stops will also penetrate interior walls and most exterior walls. However, lighter, faster projectiles tend to upset and lose energy faster in targets, while heavy, slow ones tend to keep tracking.

The good news is that most concerns about over penetration in defensive shootings is vastly overblown. No one yet has been able to find me a story of a defensive shooting ending in the death of a neighbor unintentionally. The odds are so low that it simply should be last on the list of concerns. An adequate cartridge is the most important concern.
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  #301  
Old 11-10-2018, 11:50 AM
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There are no magic bullets. Any projectile capable of involuntary stops will also penetrate interior walls and most exterior walls. However, lighter, faster projectiles tend to upset and lose energy faster in targets, while heavy, slow ones tend to keep tracking.

The good news is that most concerns about over penetration in defensive shootings is vastly overblown. No one yet has been able to find me a story of a defensive shooting ending in the death of a neighbor unintentionally. The odds are so low that it simply should be last on the list of concerns. An adequate cartridge is the most important concern.
Another thing you can look at is drive by shootings(probably mostly done with 9mm and 223)and all the people killed inside a building after the bullet went thru an exterior wall. Bullets can do the same thing if fired from inside.
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  #302  
Old 11-10-2018, 11:51 AM
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Ya I hate to say it, but if your house is such that you could inadvertently shoot a neighbor through your walls/windows in just about any direction you fire in, perhaps a firearm isn't the best choice fir home defense. If your bullets/pellets don't penetrate walls or glass, then they aren't going to stop a person either. I'd probably look at options for tasers and such instead, if it were me.
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Old 11-10-2018, 1:06 PM
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Ya I hate to say it, but if your house is such that you could inadvertently shoot a neighbor through your walls/windows in just about any direction you fire in, perhaps a firearm isn't the best choice fir home defense. If your bullets/pellets don't penetrate walls or glass, then they aren't going to stop a person either. I'd probably look at options for tasers and such instead, if it were me.
That would be most everyone that live in cities or suburbs. I'd take the birdshot over a taser for HD for sure. Unless you live in a brick house 357mag or 223 fmj going right thru walls if you miss. Have to think interior walls too unless you live alone.
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  #304  
Old 11-10-2018, 1:19 PM
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You should be fine, my good man. A 300 grain .44 from a 16" rifle barrel has as much energy as a 1 oz. 12 ga. slug, but with far better penetration potential due to the advantage of the projectile design (unless one might use a Brenneke brand slug) especially when using a hardcast lead wide or long flat nose (WFN or LFN) bullet.

I think the only lighter, easier to carry solution would be a big sturdy single action whirlenpopper, and the carbine is as quick to mount and acquire a sight picture as can be a handgun. The revolver's advantage would be ease in deployment in bad-breath distances and in overall carry.


Many folks may overlook the fact that a 20"-barrelled pistol caliber lever carbine, let alone! a 16" is noticeably shorter and definitely lighter than any decent 18" 12 ga pump gun. As I noted much earlier in this thread, I have relied on a 16" .357 1892 as one of three firearms serving in a HD role.
I do have a Ruger super blackhawk bisley hunter in .44mag. That will work well for carry around the property, but in my experience, it gets in the way when work needs to be done. I can carry the trapper in a scabbard across my back and still use a chainsaw - where a gun on my hip would get in the way.

My property is solid old-growth forest, so anything charging me still has to deal with lot of large trees - which should give me the time to respond. I also have a Rossi 92 and Marlin in .357 and I think those are really ideal especially when loaded with 180gr projos.

I've carried for decades, but this is the first time I need to have protection against 4-legged critters. I've not seen any large animal on my new property just yet, but I've seen the piles of poop that they make and have NEVER seen anything that huge from an animal in CA. Walking around there packing a 9mm just feels a bit inadequate.
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Old 11-10-2018, 2:34 PM
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I do have a Ruger super blackhawk bisley hunter in .44mag. That will work well for carry around the property, but in my experience, it gets in the way when work needs to be done. I can carry the trapper in a scabbard across my back and still use a chainsaw - where a gun on my hip would get in the way.

My property is solid old-growth forest, so anything charging me still has to deal with lot of large trees - which should give me the time to respond. I also have a Rossi 92 and Marlin in .357 and I think those are really ideal especially when loaded with 180gr projos.

I've carried for decades, but this is the first time I need to have protection against 4-legged critters. I've not seen any large animal on my new property just yet, but I've seen the piles of poop that they make and have NEVER seen anything that huge from an animal in CA. Walking around there packing a 9mm just feels a bit inadequate.
Using a chainsaw, think I'd rather carry the Bisley cross draw than carbine on my back.
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Old 11-10-2018, 4:34 PM
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NoHeavyHitter

I've carried for decades, but this is the first time I need to have protection against 4-legged critters. I've not seen any large animal on my new property just yet, but I've seen the piles of poop that they make and have NEVER seen anything that huge from an animal in CA. Walking around there packing a 9mm just feels a bit inadequate.

Well, I would feel the same, which is why I will carry heavy .44 Special (250 grain hardcast @ 1000 fps) in one of my New Model flat top Blackhawks when I get to roam my parcel. I don't own the land yet, though. I envy you yours! and I think a leever car-been across yer back is a good option.

As for sawrin' logs with your motorized saw, have you considered chest carry? apart from the sawrdust and all... there are some pretty neat chest rigs out there I've seen handgun hunters use.


And, all this is still on topic, as we're talking leever guns for home-stead defense, see.
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Old 11-10-2018, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
. I'm off to the range today to shoot a couple lever rifles. Real world experience. Bye-bye.
Wait, what? I thought you said......nevermind
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Old 11-10-2018, 8:00 PM
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I keep a Winchester 1887 12g at hand for home defense, loaded with low recoil buckshot. Best of both worlds.
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  #309  
Old 11-11-2018, 9:11 AM
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Well, after reading all of this, my head hurts.
I do believe I have found the perfect solution to the question.

A .357 lever gun loaded with these.....


395087.jpg






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  #310  
Old 11-11-2018, 9:29 AM
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I do believe I have found the perfect solution to the question.

[.38/.357 CCI shotshells ]




A fitting epilogue to a wild thread.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:20 AM
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My Lord, this thead is funny. You guys are killing me.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
As for sawrin' logs with your motorized saw, have you considered chest carry? apart from the sawrdust and all... there are some pretty neat chest rigs out there I've seen handgun hunters use.
I quit chest carry on the property that I own in CA as I want to be able to work without having to constantly take the rig off. I went to "fanny-pack" carry as that allows me to move the gun from front around to the back so I can do my work. When I'm not working then the Super Blackhawk in the chest rig will be the better option - it's just not going to fit the fanny-pack.

With the model 94 trapper, I can slip on a rubber recoil pad to keep the stock dry and not have to deal with things that are usually wet, soaking up into my leather chest-rig when the gun needs to be set down to do other work. There is also a nice velocity gain in using the carbine over the revolver.
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:18 AM
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NHH, that makes sense to me! Thanks for your reply!

Again, I envy you and in a good way.

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  #314  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:58 AM
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My Lord, this thead is funny. You guys are killing me.
That's why I use neither buckshot nor birdshot for home defense. I prefer long, rambling calguns forum threads. By the time that the intruder has finished reading the cops will have shown up, and there is only a minor chance of the thread accidentally harming an innocent.

-- Michael
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Old 11-11-2018, 3:34 PM
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Hey Penn, shoot me an email when you have time.....please
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