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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #281  
Old 12-18-2014, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Dude, that's asinine.

it's a sub 200 dollar red dot sight, of course the glass/coating isn't going to be as good as a swedecom optic. That said it does exactly what is supposed to: reliably and repeatably project a small red dot for aiming assistance with a very, very long battery life.

These do have a place, you are simply being a snob based on country of origin and price.

Even Kestryll noted the snobbery here.

It's not a perfect sight, but it is a good budget option.


I would honestly stick with irons and keep saving my money for a good optic. I am not rich enough to buy cheap stuff and $200 is a lot of money to spend on something that is subpar.
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  #282  
Old 12-18-2014, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Dude, that's asinine.

it's a sub 200 dollar red dot sight, of course the glass/coating isn't going to be as good as a swedecom optic. That said it does exactly what is supposed to: reliably and repeatably project a small red dot for aiming assistance with a very, very long battery life.

These do have a place, you are simply being a snob based on country of origin and price.

Even Kestryll noted the snobbery here.

It's not a perfect sight, but it is a good budget option.

Why do you call it Swedecom? The Swedish aren't communist.

And nobody is being a snob. They are pointing out design flaws such as glare due to cheap coatings and an aperture that doesn't even run inline with the bore that makes this a deal breaker. We got a good impartial review by someone who knows what they are talking about instead of the rest of the silly ramblings that have been posted in the thread about "features".

Having said that it would still make a decent plinker optic.
  #283  
Old 12-18-2014, 2:50 PM
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Why do you call it Swedecom? The Swedish aren't communist.

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  #284  
Old 12-18-2014, 2:53 PM
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Jokes are usually funny. That's just stupid.
  #285  
Old 12-18-2014, 3:04 PM
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Jokes are usually funny. That's just stupid.
  #286  
Old 12-18-2014, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
This thread is lasting longer then a holosun optic

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  #287  
Old 12-18-2014, 4:12 PM
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Thanks for the review.

That glare is pretty bad. My PA MD-ADS has a bit of glare, but it's not as bad as the one you reviewed.

I'm curious why you opted for the 403A model to review. I generally find it to be one of the least desirable from the current holosun lineup (I don't like battery placement, mostly). Glad to know I made the right choice by avoiding that model.
  #288  
Old 12-18-2014, 4:23 PM
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It was just the cheapest model available as I'm not too familiar with Holosun's product. Maybe their newer stuff doesn't have the red glare. I still see it in the Primary Arms MD-ADS though here:

  #289  
Old 12-18-2014, 5:27 PM
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Fair enough.

Pretty much all of their sights are about the same price, or close to it. It's more about where the batteries are located, the reticle, etc... Like I said, I get a bit of glare with mine, but it's not as bad as what you were showing in yours. It's also not nearly as bad when you are shooting with both eyes open. I honestly don't notice it much unless I'm standing directly under a lamp or something. It may bother others more.
  #290  
Old 12-18-2014, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
It was just the cheapest model available as I'm not too familiar with Holosun's product. Maybe their newer stuff doesn't have the red glare. I still see it in the Primary Arms MD-ADS though here:
If you want an MD-ADS to review let me know, I've got one sitting on an LT660 in my safe. I'll want it back though
  #291  
Old 12-18-2014, 8:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
I would honestly stick with irons and keep saving my money for a good optic. I am not rich enough to buy cheap stuff and $200 is a lot of money to spend on something that is subpar.
That ↑
  #292  
Old 12-19-2014, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
I would honestly stick with irons and keep saving my money for a good optic. I am not rich enough to buy cheap stuff and $200 is a lot of money to spend on something that is subpar.
Exactly, it ain't snobbery. Cumulatively, I've probably wasted thousands on buying cheap crap that I don't use or breaks; it retains ZERO resale value so it's just a sunk cost. Personally, I don't think red dots are a necessity, and I am not a huge fan of Aimpoints or EOTechs, but from what I am seeing, I am gaining a new appreciation for red dot sights that Aimpoint and EOTech are putting out.
  #293  
Old 12-19-2014, 3:05 PM
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It is snobbery when you make a judgment of a piece of equipment based solely on its price. Plain and simple.
The "it doesn't cost enough to be good!" Logic is rampant here.
Now if this sight or vendor had a long history of failure or shady dealings that would be one thing, but these have neither. It's a solid, well reviewed optic from one of the most reputable of vendors (PA). It has been demonstrated to do what it does reliably and is flaws have been detailed.
It does what it is speed to do, so what's not to like?
  #294  
Old 12-19-2014, 3:35 PM
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From the title of this thread to what was said in the very first post... this thread was made entirely to antagonize anyone who owns an Aimpoint. This was proven by the OP's subsequent posts in this thread and others across this forum.

Not only that, this post also attracted the penny-pincher brigade, most not even owning one of these Holosun sights yet proclaiming that they were just as good as Aimpoints because they project a dot and last 50k hours.

Well after seeing SuperSet's video we know that simply isn't true. They are not just as good as Aimpoints.

Now, does everyone need an Aimpoint? No. But does the penny-pincher brigade need to pipe up every time someone says they prefer the real thing with a PROVEN track record of durability and reliability.

Let's at least be fair. You don't like the "snobbery" just as much as the "snobs" don't like people telling them how to spend their own money or tell them how they don't need an Aimpoint because they aren't an operator.

If a Holosun and Aimpoint Micro were priced within $20 of eachother I guarantee everyone would be buying the Aimpoint. Ask yourself why that is.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 12-19-2014 at 3:38 PM..
  #295  
Old 12-19-2014, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
It is snobbery when you make a judgment of a piece of equipment based solely on its price. Plain and simple.
Solely based on price? Uh, no. Did you see the video reviews? They seemed well-done and objective, IMO. Here they are again:


  #296  
Old 12-19-2014, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
From the title of this thread to what was said in the very first post... this thread was made entirely to antagonize anyone who owns an Aimpoint. This was proven by the OP's subsequent posts in this thread and others across this forum.

Not only that, this post also attracted the penny-pincher brigade, most not even owning one of these Holosun sights yet proclaiming that they were just as good as Aimpoints because they project a dot and last 50k hours.

Well after seeing SuperSet's video we know that simply isn't true. They are not just as good as Aimpoints.

Now, does everyone need an Aimpoint? No. But does the penny-pincher brigade need to pipe up every time someone says they prefer the real thing with a PROVEN track record of durability and reliability.

Let's at least be fair. You don't like the "snobbery" just as much as the "snobs" don't like people telling them how to spend their own money or tell them how they don't need an Aimpoint because they aren't an operator.

If a Holosun and Aimpoint Micro were priced within $20 of eachother I guarantee everyone would be buying the Aimpoint. Ask yourself why that is.
Couldn't have said it better myself!!
  #297  
Old 12-19-2014, 4:23 PM
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You get what you pay for. If you have ever actually owned both the Aimpoint/EoTech sights and the cheaper Chinese made sights then you understand. But if you haven't, then you're just guessing. There is no question the Aimpoint/EoTech sights are vastly superior. They are better made, much tougher, and much more reliable.

That said, if your rifle is a range toy then you don't need a a $400-$700 sight on it. If you can afford one, great. If not then there is nothing wrong with a $100-$400 sight. Just make sure it can withstand recoil. A lot of the ones on the market won't. I'm assuming the one the OP is discussing will.

To suggest that a $150 sight is superior to an Aimpoint T1 because it has fancy push button adjustments on it is just nuts. Those will be just one more point of possible failure. They are added risk, and reason to think it would be inferior not superior.

I would have no problem running the Holosun or some other cheaper sights for range shooting, hunting, etc. For self defense I would either pony up for a top of the line brand or just run irons. You can't cheap out on something as important as this. When it comes to self defense, you need reliability above all else. I'd rather run iron sights than a cheap red dot with my rear end on the line. Irons are supremely reliable. Red dots add a slight amount of speed, but only if they don't fail on you.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-19-2014 at 4:33 PM..
  #298  
Old 12-19-2014, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
You get what you pay for. If you have ever actually owned both the Aimpoint/EoTech sights and the cheaper Chinese made sights then you understand. But if you haven't, then you're just guessing. There is no question the Aimpoint/EoTech sights are vastly superior. They are better made, much tougher, and much more reliable.

That said, if your rifle is a range toy then you don't need a a $400-$700 sight on it. If you can afford one, great. If not then there is nothing wrong with a $100-$400 sight. Just make sure it can withstand recoil. A lot of the ones on the market won't. I'm assuming the one the OP is discussing will.

To suggest that a $150 sight is superior to an Aimpoint T1 because it has fancy push button adjustments on it is just nuts. Those will be just one more point of possible failure. They are added risk, and reason to think it would be inferior not superior.

I would have no problem running the Holosun or some other cheaper sights for range shooting, hunting, etc. For self defense I would either pony up for a top of the line brand or just run irons. You can't cheap out on something as important as this. When it comes to self defense, you need reliability above all else. I'd rather run iron sights than a cheap red dot with my rear end on the line. Irons are supremely reliable. Red dots add a slight amount of speed, but only if they don't fail on you.
While I *don't* like the new reticle stuff the OP was droning on about, it is a significant "gimmick" that a lot of people would like. Now, I'd consider most of those people to not be in the know, but it's their money.

I think a LOT of folks in this thread are somewhere in the middle on this. I think the only person calling the holosun superior is the OP, and I don't think anyone else here takes him seriously. I've been saying all along that these are more of a middle of the road/value sight. I run backup irons on an absolute cowitness on my defensive rifle. I just don't like irons at night. If I have to, I can, but until I can afford the T1, the PA will do what I need it to.

Quote:
this post also attracted the penny-pincher brigade
Unless you are equating the OP with a brigade...that doesn't compute. Most folks here are asking for a little sanity, where the optic doesn't have to be a $500 beast or a "cheap piece of chinese crap," with nothing in between.
  #299  
Old 12-19-2014, 9:27 PM
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This thread has been beat to death, however I have a little story to tell. I enlisted in the Guard back in 2000, light Infantry scout, we had old M16-A2s with old beat up Aimpoints, M2 maybe, can't remember the model, but we were rocking PEQ-2s as well, so all our stuff was like Desert Storm era stuff or older. I hated my Aimpoint, never trusted it as the zero would wander, got to the point where I wouldn't draw it from the arms room.

Later, because I still didn't know much, I purchased a cheap red dot from walmart, I think it was a BSA or something like that. It never held zero and would eat batteries like crazy. I think I ended up just saying screw it and throwing it in the trash.

Upon watching the Larry Vickers video of him abusing the crap out of the T1, I decided to give red dots a third chance, up to that point I had written them off and was sticking to quality magnified optics, US Optics, Leupold and an ACOG. Now I have a T1 and a T2 and love and trust them both completely, so much so that I used my personal T1 on my issued M4 while in Afghanistan, used it over the ACOG as where we were didn't present conditions where I would have to potential engage targets beyond 100 meters when away from the vehicles with the CROWS.

With that said, Very few companies have earned my trust with optics and such I am only willing to part with my hard earned money with few choices.
  #300  
Old 12-20-2014, 12:00 PM
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I predict that there will be continued strong demand for Holosun/Primary Arms-type micro dots as long as the T1/T2 series float around the mid 500s and up price point. Additionally, with the rapid growth in choice and innovation for the 1-4x variable scope market, I'd be more than concerned if I were EOTech or AimPoint. As an econ guy working in the defense sector, I've been watching their contracts and financials. Their heydays are over.
  #301  
Old 12-20-2014, 12:56 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUASQMt5l8

Someone contact them and ask them to do the exact same test with the Holosun lol
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  #302  
Old 12-30-2014, 11:21 AM
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So wait, I'm getting confused between the holosun mentioned by the OP and PA ADS being talked about here. Are they essentially the same thing, since holosun is PA's OEM manufacturer? What are the differences between the two?
  #303  
Old 12-30-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by baekacaek View Post
What are the differences between the two?
Mostly just the housing and battery placement. I actually think the Holosun version "looks" nicer. The PA Advanced comes in a somewhat weird extrusion with a raised rib on the side. The tall caps without the adjuster on them also look a little chicom-ish too. Just an overall step backwards in terms of cosmetics. Of course the PA is better because of the battery placement and that its compatible with Aimpoint mounts, in addition to the know quality of their customer service. The newer Holosuns address or will address the battery and mount compatibility, time will tell regarding customer service.

Internally, I am guessing they are the same. Same LED, lens and other electronics.
  #304  
Old 12-30-2014, 2:20 PM
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If anything with the cheapy chicoms starting to catch up a bit, I am more curious to see what Aimpoints next move is.
  #305  
Old 12-30-2014, 2:24 PM
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Aimpoint and Eotech have real gov/le contracts so I am guessing their next move it to continue to build and sell industry leading optics, as they have for the past "lots" of years.

Did Glock lower their prices when all the cheap knockoffs started hitting the market?
  #306  
Old 12-30-2014, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Aimpoint and Eotech have real gov/le contracts so I am guessing their next move it to continue to build and sell industry leading optics, as they have for the past "lots" of years.

Did Glock lower their prices when all the cheap knockoffs started hitting the market?
One of the reasons that AP introduced the PRO model is largely due to the decline in revenue from their MIL contracts.
  #307  
Old 12-30-2014, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LastDrift View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUASQMt5l8

Someone contact them and ask them to do the exact same test with the Holosun lol

I don't think they want to waste their gas money.
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  #308  
Old 12-30-2014, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
One of the reasons that AP introduced the PRO model is largely due to the decline in revenue from their MIL contracts.
Sure. Good products tend to last a long time. It's not like they were losing contracts because of low priced civilian optics and red dots. And wasn't the PRO model's target audience Law enforcement, in particular officers that have to provide some of their own equipment.

I am sure smaller departments are more likely to have some lax guidelines on permitted rifles and optics, but last time I checked the LAPD didn't allow any of the cheap stuff on patrol rifles.

Most models of Aimpoint, EoTech, Leupold, Trijicon are the only optics approved for duty use at LAPD.
  #309  
Old 12-30-2014, 5:36 PM
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How long does it take some of you to make $150 net?

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  #310  
Old 12-31-2014, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
I would much rather spend $350 and get a proven Aimpoint or Eotech... but that's just how I work.
Who's selling Aimpoints & EO Techs for $350??? Let us all in on the "magic source" you seem to know about, else STFU and let the OP have his say...
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Old 12-31-2014, 1:07 AM
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Who's selling Aimpoints & EO Techs for $350??? Let us all in on the "magic source" you seem to know about, else STFU and let the OP have his say...
Browsing ads is not a "magic source". If you can't figure that out, then you probably just don't want one. However, making ignorant statements about magical sources and then telling people to "STFU" isn't exactly going to encourage people to direct you to where you might want to look(I'm sure as hell not going to).
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Old 12-31-2014, 1:22 AM
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Browsing ads is not a "magic source". If you can't figure that out, then you probably just don't want one. However, making ignorant statements about magical sources and then telling people to "STFU" isn't exactly going to encourage people to direct you to where you might want to look(I'm sure as hell not going to).
Uh-oh you must think that I was asking you and not hkdave?

Frankly it gets a little old to try and read about what an OP wants to post about and have deal with all the shills for the "other side". Why do morons have to crap in other people's threads with totally BOGUS claims?

Fact is, NO ONE is selling new Aimpoint T1's for $350. So whoever is shoveling that load of crap is just as guilty of making "sensational claims" as the OP that they are attempting to ridicule.

So don't sweat it pal - you don't have anything to tell me that I don't already know - now go bugger off or better yet, brush up on your reading comprehension..
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  #313  
Old 12-31-2014, 6:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHeavyHitter View Post
Who's selling Aimpoints & EO Techs for $350??? Let us all in on the "magic source" you seem to know about, else STFU and let the OP have his say...

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  #314  
Old 12-31-2014, 6:46 AM
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Default T1 Aimpoint looks like a dinosaur compared to the Holosun $199 micro red dot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHeavyHitter View Post
Uh-oh you must think that I was asking you and not hkdave?



Frankly it gets a little old to try and read about what an OP wants to post about and have deal with all the shills for the "other side". Why do morons have to crap in other people's threads with totally BOGUS claims?



Fact is, NO ONE is selling new Aimpoint T1's for $350. So whoever is shoveling that load of crap is just as guilty of making "sensational claims" as the OP that they are attempting to ridicule.



So don't sweat it pal - you don't have anything to tell me that I don't already know - now go bugger off or better yet, brush up on your reading comprehension..

This load of crap deserves two
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  #315  
Old 12-31-2014, 6:47 AM
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The newest version of the Holosun, the G model seems to alleviate some of the concerns brought on the video.
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Old 12-31-2014, 8:54 AM
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If you look for holiday sales, you can find an Aimpoint PRO for below $360.
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  #317  
Old 12-31-2014, 9:47 AM
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If you look for holiday sales, you can find an Aimpoint PRO for below $360.


Got mine from OpticsPlanet for $344 total on BF after they took my order for one of the CompM3's they oversold.
  #318  
Old 12-31-2014, 12:02 PM
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Sadly, "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" has been cancelled. On the plus side however, this thread continues to deliver the drama.
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  #319  
Old 12-31-2014, 12:30 PM
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Got mine from OpticsPlanet for $344 total on BF after they took my order for one of the CompM3's they oversold.
Got my R-1s for $300 when they were on closeout
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:47 PM
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Got my R-1s for $300 when they were on closeout
I remember when Midway was blowing them out at that price...I bought two.

And then two days later I broke down and bought two more.

Of course, the year before that Midway was selling 9000SCs for $225.

Yeah, I bought two of those, too.



-- Michael
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