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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #241  
Old 12-06-2014, 12:46 AM
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The thing about Primary Arms and Holosun is that they believe dependable, durable optics should be affordable; though their red dots and scopes are now within the $200 - $300 range. Marshal, the owner, personally inspects the Holosun factory in China to ensure their QC is up to par, and it definitely shows in their products.

In terms of budget optics I have not seen any other company put out products like Primary Arms/Holosun. Are they out there, though? I'm sure.
  #242  
Old 12-06-2014, 9:03 AM
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My TruGlo has never failed.
  #243  
Old 12-06-2014, 9:32 AM
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I promise to read all posts on this subject.
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  #244  
Old 12-06-2014, 9:42 AM
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Hey JMP, if I may ask, how much did you pay for it and have any photos? I'm always open to try out optics that are high value. Thanks!
  #245  
Old 12-06-2014, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvash View Post
The thing about Primary Arms and Holosun is that they believe dependable, durable optics should be affordable; though their red dots and scopes are now within the $200 - $300 range. Marshal, the owner, personally inspects the Holosun factory in China to ensure their QC is up to par, and it definitely shows in their products.

In terms of budget optics I have not seen any other company put out products like Primary Arms/Holosun. Are they out there, though? I'm sure.
I have respect for Primary Arms in what they are trying to do. There's an awful lot of Chinese crap out there so if they can get them to make a good quality optics with a good warranty, it's a good thing for recreational shooters.
  #246  
Old 12-06-2014, 1:49 PM
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Alright. So I received my PA ADS in the mail today, and here are a few thoughts upon initial impression:
It feels well constructed, PA claims its about 4 oz, but has that nice weight to it like you'd expect from its higher end counterpart (Aimpoint) the finish is anodized black, which scratches extremely easy. The adjustment and battery caps are all O-Ring sealed along with the area with the mount meets the optic. The glass is amazing, to me there is literally no blueish green tint like you'd find on other Chinese produced optic, no tint AT ALL, HUGE plus. It also seems the front lens is to be angled to prevent glare and its coated as well.

The emitter is nicely hidden out of your FOV if you were to look directly into the optic, which makes it give a perfect lower 1/3 co-witness on my Ultimak AK scout rail. However, this is where it takes a big hit because if you looked into the dot from the front lens (business end of the rifle) you can see the emitter and the red LED glowing.

The included low mount syncs up perfectly to the optic and it fits nice and snug onto the Ultimak AK rail, which makes it a very easy install.


Another huge hit is the bolts the mount uses, it's the star allen wrench variety and the included hardware is terrible, stripping very easy, even when applying just enough torque to "snug" down the bolts. At one time as I was mounting the optic to my rail the wrench stripped and bounced off the bolt head and I scratched the finish on the optic. I threw the hardware away and used my own star wrenches.

The off and on buttons are on top of optic, and they are rubber. It's nice and tactile with each push, but I wonder if the rubber will eventually dry out from the CA sun and begin to crack, they remind me very much of the texture of the EOTech buttons. You press either the up or down button to activate the dot and press both buttons simultaneously to turn it off. Neat feature is that whatever brightness you had the dot on when you turned it off is what it'll be when you turn it back on.

The dot is a very crisp, sharp 2 MOA dot as advertise. It goes plenty bright to combat areas in the bright sun that would wash out the dots on other budget optics. Like all other dots, once you turn it on max brightness it'll glow so bright like it's made of nuclear.

Overall, upon inspection and handling the optic it exceeded my expections by far, I am very happy with it and I have complete confidence that it'll far exceed my expectations in performance as well. But we will see. Sure, it's not an Aimpoint, but with its nice construction, clear glass and the claimed 50,000 hours of battery life on a single cell, it's the closest thing we have to the Aimpoint, at almost half the cost of $200.

Last edited by mrvash; 12-06-2014 at 1:56 PM..
  #247  
Old 12-06-2014, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
My TruGlo has never failed.
Have you subjected it to the tests in the vid above? Also, what's the battery life like?

If a Tru-Glo will do the same thing for less money, sign me up.

Last edited by sunborder; 12-06-2014 at 7:09 PM..
  #248  
Old 12-06-2014, 7:08 PM
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Indeed, and I am sensing some snobbery. I am partial to this dot as I am pretty sure it would give Holosun a run for it's money and has a green/red reticle. My eyes much prefer green in dim lighting and red in bright lighting. Of course, I am biased because I run this product and had nothing but good results. Obviously, I'd go with a real optic if my life depended on it, but for casual shooting, you really need no more.
http://www.amazon.com/Truglo-Red-Dot.../dp/B001EYFK1U

Now there are green/red/blue reticles.
http://www.amazon.com/NcStar-Green-S.../dp/B009PTUM8C
http://www.amazon.com/BSA-Scope-Illu.../dp/B001Q895RY

Maybe even better? I have not operated a blue reticle.
Just ribbing a bit, man.

I've run a blue reticle. I like it in low-light, not so much for daytime or dawn/dusk. Blue doesn't "pop" quite as easily for the eye when there is other light about, but it's a nice feature. In low light I found that it was visible enough to be distinct, without overpowering the image of the target. On the other hand, the red light does less to mess with your night vision, so it's a toss-up. In the end though, the optic was a $50 BSA r/g/b dot, with terrible battery life and equally bad glass.
  #249  
Old 12-06-2014, 8:55 PM
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This thread is like an aimpoint and an energizer bunny had a baby
  #250  
Old 12-08-2014, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvash View Post
Hey JMP, if I may ask, how much did you pay for it and have any photos? I'm always open to try out optics that are high value. Thanks!
Sure thing. You can get them for under $50 on sale.

I use it on my extremely dangerous game rifle, where it's a matter of life or death--my lightweight .458 WinMag. Gotta run it with irons or a dot since the recoil is too much for a scope unless you like getting your eye poked out or torquing rings apart.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sunborder View Post
Have you subjected it to the tests in the vid above? Also, what's the battery life like?

If a Tru-Glo will do the same thing for less money, sign me up.
As far as torture tests go, how about you bring up your little Holosun and run it on my rifle. Most cheap Chinese optics can take a little scratching and such, but can the internals hold up with the extreme force? Of course, I worry that you may be in tears after the first shot.
  #251  
Old 12-09-2014, 3:33 PM
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That definitely looks like a recoil monster. I wonder if you could get some kind of cantilever mount and a LER scope of some kind...

In any case, I'd love to see if it could handle the recoil on that. How does it stack up against 3" or 3.5" 12 gauge slugs in a standard Rem870/Mossberg 500? It seems a bit on the extreme end of the design envelope, though.
  #252  
Old 12-09-2014, 3:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
As far as torture tests go, how about you bring up your little Holosun and run it on my rifle. Most cheap Chinese optics can take a little scratching and such, but can the internals hold up with the extreme force? Of course, I worry that you may be in tears after the first shot.
I rather doubt it. If it can take direct hits from a 12 gauge and being blown up with several pounds of tannerite im betting it will handle recoil fine.
  #253  
Old 12-09-2014, 5:56 PM
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How does it stack up against 3" or 3.5" 12 gauge slugs in a standard Rem870/Mossberg 500? It seems a bit on the extreme end of the design envelope, though.
That would be like shooting a BB gun in comparison. 12g is very low pressure with a very forgiving recoil.
  #254  
Old 12-09-2014, 6:10 PM
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  #255  
Old 12-09-2014, 6:37 PM
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It's already been there, I'd say is coming out of the storm if anything.
  #256  
Old 12-09-2014, 6:50 PM
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It's already been there, I'd say is coming out of the storm if anything.

It started off going downhill from the first post lol.
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  #257  
Old 12-09-2014, 7:50 PM
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  #258  
Old 12-09-2014, 8:06 PM
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This thread cannot be complete until Excelsior opines.
  #259  
Old 12-09-2014, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post

This thread is lasting longer then a holosun optic
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  #260  
Old 12-09-2014, 9:30 PM
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Man this is Crazy... this thread just might reach 100 pages...
  #261  
Old 12-10-2014, 9:23 AM
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This thread is lasting longer then a holosun optic
That's why I prefer an ACOG or irons on my little AR type guns.
  #262  
Old 12-10-2014, 11:26 AM
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Don't we all.
  #263  
Old 12-10-2014, 5:39 PM
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Executive summary - anyone?
Which dinosaur(s) are we speaking about?
What is the parallax effect on the Holosun like?





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Last edited by R19; 12-10-2014 at 5:59 PM..
  #264  
Old 12-10-2014, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Is the primary arms the same as the bushnell trs-25?
No.

In two words: Battery Life.

1k hours vs 50k hours. The Primary Arms version, at least, seems to be built much tougher. Co-witnesses on standard aimpoint mounts.
  #265  
Old 12-10-2014, 7:29 PM
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I had to laugh at Ukraine gear being considered military grade.

If you know anything about China, you'll know that Patent enforcement is not in their 'legal system'. Same goes for Copyrights.

You're really talking about good apples and cheap oranges.
  #266  
Old 12-15-2014, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
This thread is lasting longer then a holosun optic
  #267  
Old 12-16-2014, 8:07 AM
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I have one and running through some tests now. The reflection inside the lens is pretty bad and it doesn't work well with a magnifier behind it. But, I do like the price point, streamlined body and innovative features like auto shut off and auto wake. I'm working on a review so will post my observations.
  #268  
Old 12-16-2014, 12:57 PM
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This thread is lasting longer then a holosun optic

It certainly has done a better job of holding zero than a holosun optic
  #269  
Old 12-16-2014, 12:59 PM
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It certainly has done a better job of holding zero than a holosun optic
Oh, has your holosun become inop?
  #270  
Old 12-18-2014, 12:29 AM
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Just finished my review.
Holosun didn't quite get it right this time but I like their innovation.
  #271  
Old 12-18-2014, 5:33 AM
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Looks good. Do you think using a different mount would alleviate the issues you had with using a magnifier?
  #272  
Old 12-18-2014, 5:52 AM
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It doesn't fit AP mounts. Their most expensive model HS403G does though.
  #273  
Old 12-18-2014, 6:08 AM
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Didnt realize that, my PA branded version (MD-ADS) Does. I didn't think they were that different.
  #274  
Old 12-18-2014, 6:49 AM
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Awesome video Superset! Especially enjoyed the shotgun shooting/test!
  #275  
Old 12-18-2014, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
Just finished my review.
Holosun didn't quite get it right this time but I like their innovation.
I love quality reviews that don't lie. Good for you brother! Awesome video.
  #276  
Old 12-18-2014, 7:43 AM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Didnt realize that, my PA branded version (MD-ADS) Does. I didn't think they were that different.
I think the Holosun HS403G is essentially the MD-ADS, except it can fit AP mounts. Also, I saw PA say that it has different internals and doesn't have auto wake/shut off.

Last edited by SuperSet; 12-18-2014 at 7:46 AM..
  #277  
Old 12-18-2014, 9:39 AM
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Thank you for the review. That is A LOT of glare.
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  #278  
Old 12-18-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jonzer77 View Post
Thank you for the review. That is A LOT of glare.
Seriously, ewwwww. Well, I am glad that someone finally did an honest review. The old fashioned "dinosaurs" will do just fine until someone makes a real improvement. I'd shoot irons any day of the week over that. If you want to have a real red dot, it's only a couple hundred more. Let's be pragmatic, if you can afford to buy and feed a red dot type gun like an AR-15, but can't afford an extra couple hundred bucks for a sight, you should just save your money for ammo to practice with. Red dots really don't make you look as cool at the range as you think they do.
  #279  
Old 12-18-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
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Seriously, ewwwww. Well, I am glad that someone finally did an honest review. The old fashioned "dinosaurs" will do just fine until someone makes a real improvement. I'd shoot irons any day of the week over that. If you want to have a real red dot, it's only a couple hundred more. Let's be pragmatic, if you can afford to buy and feed a red dot type gun like an AR-15, but can't afford an extra couple hundred bucks for a sight, you should just save your money for ammo to practice with. Red dots really don't make you look as cool at the range as you think they do.
Dude, that's asinine.
it's a sub 200 dollar red dot sight, of course the glass/coating isn't going to be as good as a swedecom optic. That said it does exactly what is supposed to: reliably and repeatably project a small red dot for aiming assistance with a very, very long battery life.
These do have a place, you are simply being a snob based on country of origin and price.
Even Kestryll noted the snobbery here.
It's not a perfect sight, but it is a good budget option.
  #280  
Old 12-18-2014, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
I think the Holosun HS403G is essentially the MD-ADS, except it can fit AP mounts. Also, I saw PA say that it has different internals and doesn't have auto wake/shut off.
Thank you for a nice fair and balanced review. That lens glare is deal killer for me and the fact that it won't align with a magnifier may be an additional issue for others. I truly believe that when it comes to optics, you generally get what you pay for.
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