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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2015, 9:31 PM
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Default Need close-mid range optic for Scar17

Going to be using it for running/gunning exercises (no competition, just practice with either an instructor or just myself). I would like something that allows me to easily be able to switch from close contact to decently long range (is 500 yards too much for a multi purpose optic?). I have an xps2 with a g33, and although it works on my Tavor, I can't say I'm overly fond of it. So if possible, I'd like to know if there was something different I could use.
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Old 06-11-2015, 9:33 PM
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When this comes back in stock its ideal for that.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...p/paps1-6x.htm
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Old 06-12-2015, 9:32 AM
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OP, you have a beautiful rifle... worth a lot of money... do it some justice and grab yourself a nice 1-6x optic... my favorite right now is a Vortex Razor GenII 1-6x... it's amazing! The eyepiece almost floats like a Hensoldt... optically it's incredible and will let you engage easily to 500yards and back down to CQB.

Also comes with Vortex's famous lifetime, no questions asked warranty. Call Chris at Sportoptics for one, he'll hook you up.
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Old 06-12-2015, 9:57 AM
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I have a Nightforce 2.5-10x42 on my SCAR 17, and LOVE it. I've been using the rifle for pig hunts and varmint hunting. I would suggest putting an optic that matches the rifle's ability as well as use.


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I always thought nothing beat a BJ. :shrug:
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:17 AM
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Jerry, I was thinking the same thing you were at first, but then I realized he was also asking for close contact.

I think the Nightforce 2.5-10x42 is AWESOME, but for a close contact scope, he'd have faster acquisition with a 1x.

Of course, he could just add a red dot on a 1 o'clock mount along any scope of his choice.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
Jerry, I was thinking the same thing you were at first, but then I realized he was also asking for close contact.

I think the Nightforce 2.5-10x42 is AWESOME, but for a close contact scope, he'd have faster acquisition with a 1x.

Of course, he could just add a red dot on a 1 o'clock mount along any scope of his choice.
exactly. dont want a 2.5 for close contact.

op, i bought a us optics 1-8 for my scar 17. bobro mount makes it pretty dang stable.
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2015, 10:36 AM
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I think everyone has a different opinion as to what close contact is. I have a red dot along with an ACOG on two of my ARs, but didn't see the need for the SCAR yet. I shot a pig charging at me less than 10 yards away, with both eyes open, with the optic at 2.5 power, no problem. I think the 1x optics are kind of awkward to look through, and I've tried quite a few. The best one was the USO, but still distortion at 1x, just like the rest of them.


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I always thought nothing beat a BJ. :shrug:
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:05 AM
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If you have a little more coin to spare, the Leupold Mark 8 is the perfect match for the SCAR 17... 1.1-8x24 w/ 34mm tube. Go with the CMR-W version for the 7.62. It's got a .5 MOA dot for precision shots and a 5 MOA outer ring for quick shots. It's daylight illuminated. The glass is superb and on par with S&B. It's robust and well built. The Mark 6 1-6x is nice, but the 8x of the mark8 gives you the opportunity to see your hits at 100yds without a separate spotting scope.
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bug_eyedmonster View Post
I think everyone has a different opinion as to what close contact is. I have a red dot along with an ACOG on two of my ARs, but didn't see the need for the SCAR yet. I shot a pig charging at me less than 10 yards away, with both eyes open, with the optic at 2.5 power, no problem. I think the 1x optics are kind of awkward to look through, and I've tried quite a few. The best one was the USO, but still distortion at 1x, just like the rest of them.


Jerry
Unless it's something like an elcan maybe(due to how it's built compared to most everything else), yeah they're all going to have some distortion at 1x. But as long as it's not horrendous and the reticle is suited for it, it's not so awkward if you treat it like a red dot with both eyes open.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Unless it's something like an elcan maybe(due to how it's built compared to most everything else), yeah they're all going to have some distortion at 1x. But as long as it's not horrendous and the reticle is suited for it, it's not so awkward if you treat it like a red dot with both eyes open.
Maybe I'm just picky... But I agree, many lower powered optics can be treated like a red dot if you need that versatility. I've used even illuminated optics with the front lens cover on as a red dot, imposing the reticle with my right eye and using my left eye to shoot. Actually works.

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I always thought nothing beat a BJ. :shrug:
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bug_eyedmonster View Post
Maybe I'm just picky... But I agree, many lower powered optics can be treated like a red dot if you need that versatility. I've used even illuminated optics with the front lens cover on as a red dot, imposing the reticle with my right eye and using my left eye to shoot. Actually works.

Jerry
Of course, that's simply using it as an OEG(occluded eye gunsight). Seems they came about in the 60's, started getting some use in the 70's, but died off for the most part. Heck most people refuse to even accept the concept(having the dot superimposed over the image seen by the other eye), but it does work(with limitations).

But given the options these days... there doesn't seem to be much of a market.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Of course, that's simply using it as an OEG(occluded eye gunsight). Seems they came about in the 60's, started getting some use in the 70's, but died off for the most part. Heck most people refuse to even accept the concept(having the dot superimposed over the image seen by the other eye), but it does work(with limitations).

But given the options these days... there doesn't seem to be much of a market.
Wow, I didn't even know that it was thing back then, I learned about it at my first carbine course! It really does have limitations, and I would never trust my life on it if given a choice. I have kicked the idea back and forth about adding a offset red dot on the SCAR, but it's hard to justify after only using the ones on the ARs so little.
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I always thought nothing beat a BJ. :shrug:
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Old 06-12-2015, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bug_eyedmonster View Post
Wow, I didn't even know that it was thing back then, I learned about it at my first carbine course! It really does have limitations, and I would never trust my life on it if given a choice. I have kicked the idea back and forth about adding a offset red dot on the SCAR, but it's hard to justify after only using the ones on the ARs so little.
I think the Russians might have actually issued some in the 70's, I know for sure I've seen pics of them on AKs.
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2015, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
OP, you have a beautiful rifle... worth a lot of money... do it some justice and grab yourself a nice 1-6x optic... my favorite right now is a Vortex Razor GenII 1-6x... it's amazing! The eyepiece almost floats like a Hensoldt... optically it's incredible and will let you engage easily to 500yards and back down to CQB.

Also comes with Vortex's famous lifetime, no questions asked warranty. Call Chris at Sportoptics for one, he'll hook you up.
I think this is most likely what I'm going to go with. I'm not the greatest shooter in the world, so I think the extra cost of the Leupold can't be justified.

I do like ACOG, and I think they make a 6x one for 7.62...though I think that is calibrated for the m249?

Edit 2: Oh god, that NF 2.5-10x42 is so sexy in MOAR

Last edited by Soginator; 06-12-2015 at 3:06 PM..
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2015, 3:05 PM
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I think this is most likely what I'm going to go with. I'm not the greatest shooter in the world, so I think the extra cost of the Leupold can't be justified.
I think the options HK Dave mentioned are great optics as well, but I strongly suggest finding the opportunity to play with different optics before making the purchase. Also remember how you will be using the gun/set up. When I bought my scope, I asked the guy behind the counter if I could take them outside. That way you can get an idea of the performance in natural light at various distances.

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  #16  
Old 06-12-2015, 3:07 PM
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I use a 4x ACOG for my AR-10. ACOGs don't give me issues at close range and the little magnification is just right for the range of 308.

I do not like 1-6x optics, just out of preference since they are extremely hard to make just right, I haven't really seen one that I'd pay for after owning one that I put on a 22lr. That is completely my PERSONAL OPINION as there is a lot of subjectivity in this matter.

The issue is that the 308 has a wide usage range, so there are lots of options. I have a few 308s and they use different optics depending on what the type of gun and use is. For a semiauto battle rifle, I like the ACOGs.
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Old 06-12-2015, 3:55 PM
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Leupold MARK 6 1x6 with the 762 reticle
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Unless it's something like an elcan maybe(due to how it's built compared to most everything else), yeah they're all going to have some distortion at 1x. But as long as it's not horrendous and the reticle is suited for it, it's not so awkward if you treat it like a red dot with both eyes open.
Trijicon Accupoint TR24G is 1-4x but talking about true 1x, this has it, just as fast as my Eotech in target acquisition at 1x. Put the 4MOA green triangle on target and pull trigger.
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Old 06-13-2015, 2:01 AM
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I think the Russians might have actually issued some in the 70's, I know for sure I've seen pics of them on AKs.
Very very old concept. I've used it to hustle many ignorant shooters at public ranges.

They were used as far back as WWI (yes, the first one) for artillery.

Army SF used the Armson OEG late in the Vietnam war. Etc etc etc
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Old 06-13-2015, 2:21 AM
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Trijicon Accupoint TR24G is 1-4x but talking about true 1x, this has it, just as fast as my Eotech in target acquisition at 1x. Put the 4MOA green triangle on target and pull trigger.
No, it doesn't. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=357530

So you don't have to bother clicking the link, here's the aimpoint

Here's the eotech

Here's the TR24R(the green vs red is the difference)


There's nothing "special" regarding the basic construction of the accupoint vs. any other optic out there, and considering how long it's been out if it were a true 1x people would be all over it. They aren't, and it isn't. It's also why some companies don't even bother trying to call their scope a 1-whatever, because they can't actually get the 1. If you read up on focal length or even check trijicon's published exit pupil measurement(and understand how it's calculated, something easy enough to find on google), it's obvious that it isn't 1x.

edit: btw, since you said you also have an eotech, you can test it yourself if you want. I'm not saying it isn't doable or fast, like I mentioned previously as long as it's not horrendous and the reticle is appropriate it should work.
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Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
Very very old concept. I've used it to hustle many ignorant shooters at public ranges.

They were used as far back as WWI (yes, the first one) for artillery.

Army SF used the Armson OEG late in the Vietnam war. Etc etc etc
Can't believe I forgot about the armson. Looks similar to the crappy izon paintball oeg. Can't say I'm familiar with artillery sights, but I'm not surprised.

Last edited by Merc1138; 06-13-2015 at 2:40 AM..
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2015, 11:37 PM
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So I've hit a dead end on deciding this. I like the NF reticle, but as far as I can tell, it is not FFP. For whatever reason I really don't like the reticles on the Vortex and Leupold options. Is there a NF FFP option I'm missing, or do I have to look elsewhere?

Edit: I'm also not opposed to getting something more for mid range that can attach a RDS to the mount.
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:48 PM
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Coming soon!!

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...24ffp-acss.htm
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:08 AM
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That's quite the jump from your normal price point. What have you upgraded? Also the scar is known to abuse optics with its recoil; have you tested that scope out on a scar 17 yet?
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:25 AM
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Its a proven model
And yes passed all testing
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scop...1-front-focal/
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Old 07-30-2015, 9:11 AM
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Its a proven model
And yes passed all testing
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scop...1-front-focal/
Signed up to be notified when back in stock. I'm excited. My experience with the two PA optics I have are that they hold up against optics twice the price, sometimes more. Looking forward to checking this out.
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Old 07-30-2015, 9:12 AM
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https://www.primaryarms.com/Trijicon...a31-r-acss.htm

Another great option

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Old 07-30-2015, 11:42 AM
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Wow Dimitri, that looks like a serious optic. So, if I am understanding this correctly, it is based on the Leupold Mark 8? What differences have you put in there to get the price down on such a significant level?

I am interested in that 1-8x scope for a hunting rifle.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:56 AM
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Wow Dimitri, that looks like a serious optic. So, if I am understanding this correctly, it is based on the Leupold Mark 8? What differences have you put in there to get the price down on such a significant level?

I am interested in that 1-8x scope for a hunting rifle.
My thoughts exactly. It seems like this will be the first batch, but at that price point, I'm okay with being a guinea pig. I'll be more than happy to post anything I learn, but based on the fact that I've had to ask you for optics advice on more than one occasion, I might not have the level of experience to review an optic as well as you'd like.
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Old 08-01-2015, 12:05 AM
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Hey Primary Arms, a little off topic, but when are you guys going to have the Super Scar triggers on sale again? Still got one in the shopping basket you guys keep emailing me about.
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Old 08-01-2015, 2:00 AM
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My thoughts exactly. It seems like this will be the first batch, but at that price point, I'm okay with being a guinea pig. I'll be more than happy to post anything I learn, but based on the fact that I've had to ask you for optics advice on more than one occasion, I might not have the level of experience to review an optic as well as you'd like.
Yes, it is interesting indeed. I am still hoping that Dimitri weighs in on the differences between the PA 1-8x and the Leupold Mark 8 1-8x. He linked them both up there so I am assuming there are similarities, but there are obviously signficant differences given that the PA is 30% of the price. There are never free lunches when it comes to optics. It just depends on what we are conceding with the PA vs. a $4,500 optic wasn't made clear.

For me, I have yet to like any of the 1-X really for purposes outside of hunting. In the $2k+ price point, I have been underwhelmed with what I have seen as I have optical issues on both sides of the spectrum. There's distortion at 1x and there is parallax distortion at the higher magnifications as they frequently have a fixed parallex where the image is not lining up with the reticle on higher powers without the ability to easily adjust the parallax.

Since I am not impressed by the 1-Xx at the price points, if you want a small scope but something like a fixed 4x isn't for you, I'd be tempted to look at some of the 3-12/3-15 FFPs like the Steiner, SWFA, and other options that provide superior optical quality for less money. It's simply that you will not get the 1x, which doesn't really exist to begin with.

It's always a tough call as with optic as the ones we like in spec are no good in in real life and always come with a big sticker price. They are just hard to make. But, with the popularity, I am sure they'll get better over time.

Quote:
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Wow Dimitri, that looks like a serious optic. So, if I am understanding this correctly, it is based on the Leupold Mark 8? What differences have you put in there to get the price down on such a significant level?

I am interested in that 1-8x scope for a hunting rifle.
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:25 AM
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I'm trying to keep the weight down as that is one of the best features of a Scar. Also trying to keep it a "battle" rifle. Didn't want to go the ACOG route as I already have one on my DDM4. Although now it seems that might be the best bet. Any chance you know a lightweight mid range optic and a mount I can attach a RDS at 45 with?

ninja edit: I am asking because if the 1-8 is only really good for hunting, then it is useless to me because I don't hunt.
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Old 08-01-2015, 11:31 AM
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Not sure if you've decided but the Burris MTAC 1-4x is really a nice little scope. I have two, one is sitting on my SCAR 17. Glass is amazing for the price tag, very very clear. The only thing I don't care for is the ballistic reticle. Otherwise, I took it out to 600 yards yesterday with my SCAR. Burris also has one of the best warranty's in the business, it is a Forever Warranty similiar to the Vortex VIP, any issues at all and Burris will fix it.
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Old 08-01-2015, 3:36 PM
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I feel like if I got a 1-4, I might as well just go with ACOG. Speaking of which, has anyone tried the 6x ACOG?
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Old 08-01-2015, 9:25 PM
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I feel like if I got a 1-4, I might as well just go with ACOG. Speaking of which, has anyone tried the 6x ACOG?
That's what I would do (that's what I ultimately did) after trying various scopes and such on my AR-10. I think the 4x ACOG is just where you want to be with an AR-10. It provides a good field of view, and 4x lets you shoot close up as well as far.

Plus, you can get a 4x TA01 in 308 for not that much money. I'd go with a TA01 as it always provides the right level of illumination. It's basically like ordinary black when you are in light, then it glows to a clear level for a fine reticle in the dark. With the extra fiber optic light source in the TA31s, the reticle can get a bit too bright in daylight to the point where you'll want to put a strip of electric tape over it.

I think they are only like 800 bucks nowadays. If you really like Dimitri's reticle, maybe order one of his new ACSSs in the TA31. I think it's perfect for the task of a short range 308 rifle.

There's always a balance between FOV and magnification. Some people find these 1-X scopes the solution, but you get rather poor optics for a lot of money, then you need to fritz around with dials. It ain't my flavor for an AR-10, just me personally. Conceptually, they are great, in practice, very disappointing for me.
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2015, 11:11 AM
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dune870demon dune870demon is offline
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Bushnell 1-4x with throw down lever and illuminated optic. I love mine and the reticle. Plus it survived a 4.5ft fall directly on it on concrete and didn't lose zero or crack, warp. It only scratched the paint..
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Old 08-02-2015, 8:21 PM
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MrPlink MrPlink is offline
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Originally Posted by Soginator View Post
I feel like if I got a 1-4, I might as well just go with ACOG. Speaking of which, has anyone tried the 6x ACOG?
Agreed on the 1-4x.

The 6x Acogs are HUGE btw.
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Old 08-02-2015, 8:57 PM
BRANCHER BRANCHER is offline
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My Choice ACOG TA11
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produ...?pid=TA11H-308
Added a Larue mount
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...ount-qd-lt-100

Easy to remove to use Irons or go to other optics.
Thinking some 25x+ power scope at some point too.

Also may add AimPoint with Larue Mount or Add RMR on top of the ACOG

Already added a Geisselle trigger, Atlas bi-pod with LaRue mount, Surefire 600 Fury with LaRue Mount and just bought Hindl extended carbon rail.

Can you tell..? I like LaRue Products. I have even given some as gifts. Bummed on last order, No rub sent in box , but did get another hat.
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Old 08-02-2015, 9:59 PM
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dune870demon dune870demon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRANCHER View Post
My Choice ACOG TA11
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produ...?pid=TA11H-308
Added a Larue mount
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...ount-qd-lt-100

Easy to remove to use Irons or go to other optics.

Thinking some 25x+ power scope at some point too.


Also may add AimPoint with Larue Mount or Add RMR on top of the ACOG

Already added a Geisselle trigger, Atlas bi-pod with LaRue mount, Surefire 600 Fury with LaRue Mount and just bought Hindl extended carbon rail.

Can you tell..? I like LaRue Products. I have even given some as gifts. Bummed on last order, No rub sent in box , but did get another hat.
Zeiss HD5 5-25x
Leopold VX3 is 8.5-25 but I feel like that 8.5 is to high to have as a minimum power for a scope, if that makes sense... The do make the VX6 in a 4-24 which is sweet. But they're big $$$. But worth it.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:14 AM
KillZone45 KillZone45 is offline
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speaking of 308 type battle rifles I used to have the Vortex 1-6 when it first came out. It was really nice, the glass was super but I wanted something that could utilize the 7.62 cartridge. So I sold the Vortex 1-6 and went with the Leupold mk6 3-18 and added an Aimpoint T1 at the 1 o'clock position. This gave me long range capability and with the flick of my wrist I could transition to the T1 for the 10 yard shots (yardage was a close up example).

I felt that with just the 1-6 that I couldnt transition from 6x to 1x quick enough because the magnification ring was stiff. Granted Im not using this rifle in combat but in the end I felt that to ME the Leupold 3-18x with the Aimpoint T1 was the perfect combo for me.

I do plan to possibly get a Scar17 in the future if I dont pick up the new Desert Tech MDR and I want to try out the US Optics 1-8 or maybe the Leupold 1-8. I think the 1-8's that Leupold and USO offers are a really nice combo of close/far that 308 battle rifles can utilize.
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Old 08-03-2015, 4:03 AM
Wallabing Wallabing is offline
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Eotech 512 with a Vortex magnifier.
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