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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#281
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The 37 is interesting due the very light weight, lack of a disconnector and downward ejection, but the 870 has a lot more aftermarket support.
I wish I had gone with the 870. But I am still looking forward to putting the first few rounds through the 37 this weekend. |
#283
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I called Remington and asked.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#284
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I think it needs to be a WTB ad.
No easy way to tell by searching for "remington 870" whats what without looking at each one, even then they don't tell you what the sn is. EDIT: and if you find one, post dibs here so we all don't end up bidding against each other
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WTB: SWISS & German police trade in pistols WTB: German made & proofed SIG P226R & P228R WTB: Factory cutaway pistols & rifles WTB: LAPD Ithaca M37 / CHP S&W / Other PD trade ins.... |
#285
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I have a verifiable C&R shotgun that I will sell if any of you are interested. Serial number in the 32,000 range making it a first or second year gun, 1950-51. you can e-mail me at drdremel at hotmail dot com. ( Keeps the spambots from my e-mail)
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#286
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I can give a +1 to DrDremel. Bought one from him recently, no problems at all.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#287
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Me too while we are at it. I just left you one for the 870.
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. Last edited by ar15barrels; 06-28-2008 at 11:45 AM.. |
#288
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Since it has been shown that "Zombies" is an acceptable reason to build up an NFA weapon on a Form 1, I think it is entirely appropriate that I resurrect this thread.
Please follow my line of reasoning, and tell me what you think: 1) Commission some manufacturer to produce a batch of limited edition commemorative off-list lowers. Perhaps they would commemorate the DC v. Heller decision, or the the California OLL craze, or some other suitable event of historical significance. Maybe they could have some feature(s), either cosmetic or functional, which make them different from typical lowers in some way other than the markings.Assuming that ATF would grant the commemorative rifle model C&R status, am I missing anything here? If my line of reasoning isn't faulty, then would the ATF ever assign C&R status to a firearm model that commemorates such a recent event, or would their response be something like "no, but feel free to apply again in 20 years"? |
#290
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We can't even own a Colt AR15 or Hk91 in this state..let alone have to install the infamous Bullet Button on the average weapon.
I would rather be able to own a Colt AR-15 or Hk91 legally in this state without the bullet button crap. Or even be able make CA a shall issue state. Who the heck wants some never heard of C&R for a SBR ? This state is one step away from Cap & ball guns only ( SBR that ) People are getting arrested for OLL rifles with black evil features. How do you think the SBR thing goes with the average " Joe bag of Dough nuts" How much money are you willing to spend in attorney fees to defend your C&R, SBR needs. I wish we would all focus on getting some of the basic AWB laws overturned, allowing us to own what everyone else can in the other states. It might be easier if you started you own motion picture company or just move to another state. Now pass around what all of you are _______ !
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#291
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Yet. That may change in the next few years. The opening shots have already been fired in that battle.
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#292
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#293
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Aw, I knew there had to be a fly in the ointment. Or maybe even a cat poop. Let's see, I just grabbed a ruler and my CA-legal M4gery, and it appears that it couldn't afford to lose any barrel length with the stock retracted. Now, it might be possible to install the shorter M4 barrel (I don't recall the exact length) if the telestock was permanently locked at maximum length, but that would just be silly. For any given overall length, might as well maximize the barrel length within the constraint of having a comfortable pull length. Ok, your homework assignment is to take my basic idea and them come up with other interesting and legal applications! |
#294
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to set up a "true" trust in much more expensive than to set up an LLC or CORP.
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#295
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But then again, I think you might be ignorant of the fees involve with each of the other options. (and maybe even the hassle of filing taxes quarterly!) Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#296
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383green
Thank you for your logical and optimistic replies. I hope things change for the better in CA. This is a great state, they just need to make laws that are logical rather than emotional.
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#297
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No problem! Being optimistic about gun laws in California is very new to me, too. Things really have started to change over the last couple of years, and the rate of change seems to be increasing.
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#298
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#299
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I wonder what the Right People think about whether they should sue now, or wait until 14th incorporation of the 2nd? If now is a good time for one of them to file a suit, I wonder if there's anything that us consumers can do to help them along?
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#300
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You CAN own a Colt AR15. There are at least one or two models that are off list. I think the Match Target HBar is one. You CAN own an HK 91, sort of. HK re-stamped some 91s to 911 and these are off list. In fact, one has been in the for-sale forum for the past month. I don't know about never heard of C&Rs, but my Remington 870 and 11 are both C&Rs. As to spending money on attorneys fees, I agree that sucks. I can't really argue with that. |
#301
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=105358 Anyway, it looks like a beautiful rifle, but it's out of my price range right now. I've been hemorrhaging money on my home construction. |
#302
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Just thinking... given 12020b7...
A Mech-Tech CCU 1911 Carbine Conversion Upper, on top of a C&R 1911 could be registered as SBR...
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
#303
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Getting close, but...
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. The SBR barrel wouldn't have this so OK (B) A second handgrip. I think this means "vertical" grip so OK (C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. This looks like a problem ETA: Missed the obvious problem -- it has a pistol grip and is a rifle! Funny thing about the CA law is that anything with <16" barrel is considered a pistol, so you can have a weapon that is both a pistol and a SBR at the same time. That makes no sense to me. It pretty much makes it impossible to have a SBR that does not violate SB23, since you have to comply with both the rifle and pistol sections of SB23. Does anyone have a reference for where CA specifically defines what a rifle is? Last edited by vandal; 07-27-2008 at 8:36 AM.. |
#304
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The only problem is, that would need a fixed mag or it would be an AW in CA. I also do not know what the legalities are for registering a pistol as a SBR as far as the feds are concerned. Can you even do that?
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#305
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Sure can. People have registered 1911s and glocks as SBRs so that they can put detachable shoulder stocks on them.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#306
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Seems like you could get one of the C&R high powers with the holster/shoulder stock and have a replacement stock made for it that prevented a "pistol-style" grasp. |
#307
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whats funny is that there are actually 1911/hi-power/lugers/broomhandle mausers that are exempt from the NFA with "original" shoulder stocks. No tax stamp needed. They would be 12020 legal, but would probably violate 12276.
I know that DrDremel SBR Form 1'ed a C&R Sistema 1911 in MI. And making a shoulder stock that wasn't skinny where it attached, but was tall enough to cover the entire back of the grip would eliminate the "pistol-grip" grasp. Wouldn't work good for a 1911 with the grip safety, but on a hi-power, why not? How much do C&R Hi-powers go for?
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#308
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Wow i just read all these pages.
so has anyone with a hk sp89 reg. a/w done the paper work and got approved to make this weapon a aow to add the front pistol grip? i sent a informal email to the ca doj in oct of 07 asking if i could reg my sp89 as a aow and the said no way. now i see that you can, but has anyone already done this and been approved? i live in chula vista ca county of san diego, since the city of chula vista has it's own police department can i ask the local police chief for a signature and if he turns me down then ask the county sheriff to see if he will sign? i will start getting my paperwork together to submit to the atf. |
#309
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I don't have any registered AW pistols, so that option is not available to me.
What reason did the DOJ say that would prevent you from doing an AOW? I'm not aware of any CA code sections other than 12276.1 that prohibit an VFG on a handgun. And since the SP89 is already a registered AW, adding a VFG shouldn't be manufacturing a new AW, its already one. OH, just thought of something, of course you couldn't register it as an AOW with CADOJ, since CADOJ does not have a definition for AOW or registration process for AOWs. AOW is a federal definition that you have to comply with. CA merely has an AOW exemption for 12020 prohibitions if you have a federally registered AOW. I think there are one or two guys that may be working on AOW'ing some fixed-mag AR/AK pistols with VFGs since that would not violate 12276.1. Yes, you would need to get a signature from someone, police chief or sherriff are the most common ones, but there are other acceptable signatories. DAs and Judges are other possibilites, and there may be others as well. Unfortunately, the trust option does not look to be an option, since you'd have to transfer the registered AW into the trust and the trust would have to file the Form 1. But, the SP89 is already registered in your name, transfering it to the trust may not be possible as the AW registration may "break".
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. Last edited by ke6guj; 08-16-2008 at 10:39 PM.. |
#310
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the email from the state just said aow's were not allowed in the state, it was a informal email request and response.
so it does not seem that i could make my sp89 a aow and add the front grip? if i received a approved aow tax stamp from the feds, does the sp89 aow become eligilble to have in cali since "CA merely has an AOW exemption for 12020 prohibitions if you have a federally registered AOW." i was not going to go the trust route. that bites... Last edited by Cesardajr; 08-17-2008 at 12:18 PM.. |
#311
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The term "any other weapon" appears just once in the entire firearms section of the code, as a valid exemption to 12020 prohibitions. And AOW does not appear at all. No place do I see anything that CA specifically states that a federally registered AOW is illegal in CA. So, you would need to look at what features of an AOW that would be banned by CA. Stuff like smooth-bore pistols, unconventional firearms, and other stuff.
So, the feature you are talking about adding a VFG to to semi-auto detachable mag pistol. Doing that would normally be creating an AW, which would be illegal unless registered. But your SP89 is already a reg'ed AW, so what CA law did you violate by placing an VFG on it? I think if you could get a CLEO sign-off on your Form 1, you should be golden. Send it to the BATFE and it should come back approved in a couple months. After you get the AOW approval from the feds and install the VFG, what crime would you have committed in CA. You didn't make an unregistered AW, it already was registered. Oh, and ATF will not approve any app that violates state law. Remember that CADOJ does spread FUD if they don't like what we are doing. So, their opinion may not follow the letter of the law. Just look at the entire OLL deal.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#312
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I am just curious about a particular senario. Say someone were to buy a brand new shotgun originally equiped with a pistol grip and then registered it as an AOW. Then they proceed to register as a short barrel shotgun. Would the AOW status remain if a stock were to be put back on the shotgun? Once a registered AOW always a registered AOW, or does the stock negate its "AOWness" so to speak?
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#314
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No, an SBS does not needto keep a shoulder stock attached, because a federally defined SBS is a short barrel firearm made from a shotgun (a shoulder fired shotshell firearm). Even though you later take off the stock, it was made from a shotgun, so federally it is still a shotgun and an SBS.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#315
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Bzzt....It's impossible to "put a stock back on" an AOW "shotgun", because an AOW "shotgun" by definition never had a stock on it.
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#316
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Buy a Remington 870 originally pistol gripped only from the factor. Register the 870 as an AOW Register the 870 as a SBS Mount it below my 20" Colt Government Upper and saw off enough of the barrel so it is flush with the flash suppressor. (The 18" barrel doesn't look very nice sticking out another 4" from the Colt Barrel.) The only issue is if the stock from the rifle negate the AOW status. If it negates the AOW status then the SBS status is no longer legal in California. I don't believe the C&R 870's (if I could find one) have the means to mount to the Master Key. |
#317
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[EDITED TO BE AS ACCURATE AS I CAN STATE MY UNDERSTANDINGS]
Generally, CA discussions should not mix up "short-barreled shotguns" ("SBS") and AOWs.... A NEW SBS is specifically not legal in CA for average citizens under CA law, even if it has a federal SBS tax stamp (ie, "paper"). A C&R shoulder-fired shotgun can apparently have the barrel shortened (and/or the entire gun shortened) to otherwise-illegal length(s) under CA law because its C&R and has a blanket exemption. I believe it still needs federal paper as a SBS. A federally-papered AOW "shotgun" of any age is OK in CA as its exempted. Last edited by GuyW; 08-22-2008 at 11:35 AM.. |
#319
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Ayearefifteen- The only issue with what you propose is that the shotgun mounted to the AR makes the AR an AW. If the AR is already reg'ed as an AW then your G2G. Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#320
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The law says no grenade or flare launchers. A regular 12ga shotgun is neither.
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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