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  #1  
Old 08-12-2010, 10:40 PM
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Default Dove opener

There still isn't a date posted on the DFG website for 2010. Anyone know the exact date? I assumed it was Sep 1 but I'm not willing to go out until I see it in writing. Do they always take this long to set the regs?
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Old 08-13-2010, 4:14 AM
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Sept. 1st
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2010, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by duckman1 View Post
Sept. 1st
What about limits?
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Old 08-13-2010, 5:47 AM
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Always September 1st-15th
Daily Bag limit is 10
Possession limit is double daily bag

Last edited by ghostrider; 08-13-2010 at 6:03 AM..
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  #5  
Old 08-13-2010, 7:15 AM
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Possession is double the daily bag limit excluding opening day.
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Old 08-13-2010, 7:19 AM
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Unless you shoot eurasion doves there still is no limit set on those just make sure you leave a way to prove they're eurasion
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Old 08-13-2010, 7:35 AM
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Rock doves are open all season also with no bag or possession limit.


Last edited by professionalcoyotehunter; 08-13-2010 at 7:40 AM..
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:02 PM
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best way, one should leave a wing on to do so

Edit to add:
251.7. Possession, Transportation and Importation of Game Birds.

(b) All birds, including migratory game birds, possessed or transported within California must have a fully feathered wing or head attached until placed into a personal abode or commercial preservation facility or being prepared for immediate consumption. Doves must have a fully feathered wing attached.

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Originally Posted by portegee View Post
Unless you shoot eurasion doves there still is no limit set on those just make sure you leave a way to prove they're eurasion

Last edited by rumblebee; 08-13-2010 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 08-13-2010, 4:02 PM
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Not to try and skim past the law, I'm just curious, but can your car be considered a personal abode or do I need to get it all the way home?
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Old 08-13-2010, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LloydXmas250 View Post
Not to try and skim past the law, I'm just curious, but can your car be considered a personal abode or do I need to get it all the way home?
No you need to eat them or quit.
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Old 08-13-2010, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LloydXmas250 View Post
Not to try and skim past the law, I'm just curious, but can your car be considered a personal abode or do I need to get it all the way home?
I'm not sure. I guess it doesn't make much difference for me since, I'll be hunting in my "backyard" anyways.
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  #12  
Old 08-13-2010, 4:50 PM
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Unless you can prove that you live out of your car , I'd wait to get them home or when ready for immediate consumption.

You might try to call DGF on the car question...but, they may be busy giving out wild boar "secret" locations in So Cal at this time
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Old 08-13-2010, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter View Post
Rock doves are open all season also with no bag or possession limit.

I shoot those damn things off my roof. Beeman (sp?) .20 cal pellet gun with a leupold 2x pistol scope is dead on at 40 yards. 4 pumps = fly off or if I hit the CNS they drop and twitch.

I've bagged 5 in the nearly 3 years I've lived here. My neighbors all like it b/c we hate those damn things. I lol at the people with whole flocks crappin on their roofs.

Anyways I won't hunt the opener since I will be in the caribbean!
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  #14  
Old 08-13-2010, 6:08 PM
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While I'm on the trend of asking questions, I will be going out with a partner. I like having a backpack to carry my game, shells, water, etc. If my partner bags 10 and I bag 10 and I carry them am I now over the limit or will the explanation of me carrying his kills suffice?
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Old 08-13-2010, 7:05 PM
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Don't do it due to they will be in your possesion and therfore you are over the limit. been there done that $125 per bird...Imperial Valley
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Old 08-13-2010, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
Don't do it due to they will be in your possesion and therfore you are over the limit. been there done that $125 per bird...Imperial Valley
I figured. Just checking. Thanks guys. Leaving for Hawaii late on the 1st so I'm gonna try and go out early and then just freeze it while gone.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:44 PM
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LLoyd, we gotta shoot one night by your house, I'm seeing some good dove flights in the evening there. Holler after Labor Day weekend, I'll be in AZ the first weekend for dove.
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Old 08-14-2010, 8:38 AM
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As long as the birds are segregated and tagged with his name, address, phone, license number, and permission for you to transport them you should be fine. If you get checked and they cannot immediately idenitfy whose birds they are, they become yours.....

Last edited by duckman1; 08-14-2010 at 8:40 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter View Post
Rock doves are open all season also with no bag or possession limit.

Not that I don't believe you but I have been unable to locate this in the regs. Do you have a link? Thanks.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
LLoyd, we gotta shoot one night by your house, I'm seeing some good dove flights in the evening there. Holler after Labor Day weekend, I'll be in AZ the first weekend for dove.
I'll be returning from Hawaii about that time. Sounds good. We should definitely make plans.
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Old 08-14-2010, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 7.62 FMJ View Post
Not that I don't believe you but I have been unable to locate this in the regs. Do you have a link? Thanks.
I talked with a DFG warden at Bass Pro about rock doves (pigeons) last week and the regs. Basically he said the DFG regs spell out what non game birds are legal (starling, sparrows etc) and pigeon is NOT on that list. The warden said no one would cite you for pigeons which is what I've found from many years of shooting them in feed lots. They are a pest and no warden should cite you for it. The agin you COULD be cited. Never seen anyone get cited for that but who knows.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2010, 7:09 PM
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From page 17 of the 09-10 reg >>>currently posted on DFG site (waterfoul and upland game birds) it states "10 white winged or mourning doves in aggregate; no limit on other species".

If they are truly rock doves, I think you're ok whacking the snot out of them
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Old 08-15-2010, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumblebee View Post
From page 17 of the 09-10 reg >>>currently posted on DFG site (waterfoul and upland game birds) it states "10 white winged or mourning doves in aggregate; no limit on other species".

If they are truly rock doves, I think you're ok whacking the snot out of them

You gotta a point there Rumblebee. DFG added that no limit on other species to cover the ECD (Eurasion Collared Dove). On the other hand you CANNOT shoot Inca doves and Ruddy Brown doves, they are protected. http://www.avianweb.com/ruddygrounddoves.html. So it appears the DFG upland regs from last year are NOT that clear after all.
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:36 AM
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The Ca. Fish and Game regulations makes no reference to "rock doves". It only references "band tail pigeons", which is a game bird, and "domestic pigeons" which is not classified as a game bird or non-game bird. Even though many are found flying free in the wild, the F&G code still refers to them as "domestic pigeons".
F&G code 677 (b) allows the shooting of birds for hunting dog training and field trials. It requires that the shooter/trainer must have a hunting license to shoot domestically raised game birds, and sets restrictions on the take of the domestically raised game birds. Yet there are no restrictions or hunting license required for the take of "domestic pigeons" while engaged in dog training. DFG is well aware that the pigeons used for dog training are not domestically raised, but mostly trapped at feedlots, farms, and areas where pigeons congregate. Thousands of free roaming pigeons are trapped and sold on a monthly basis, and DFG does not cite anyone for the illegal capture or take of pigeons.
It would be interesting to see if anyone cited for shooting pigeons would actually be convicted. There is a history of the unlimited pigeon shooting being done all through the state. Many municipal governments have done it, school districts, farmers and ranchers, etc. Example; In the City of Ontario the only exception to the municipal code banning shooting, is a exception that allows dairy farmers or their agents to shoot pigeons.
Wildlife is the property of the state, and are regulated by the DFG whether they are on state, federal, or private land. Domestic animals and birds are not the property of the state, or regulated by DFG unless they are a game bird or game animal domestically raised. I doubt the DFG could prove which "domestic pigeons" are totally feral and wild, and which members of a flock are privately owned homing, carrier, racing, etc pigeons.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:27 AM
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Thanks for the clarification, 5shot
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:22 AM
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I've got a call into DFG headquarters, we'll see what their official answer is.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter View Post
If you want to hunt these, China Town in San Fran has millions of them! Just gota find a way that its legal to hunt there. LOL
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
I doubt the DFG could prove which "domestic pigeons" are totally feral and wild, and which members of a flock are privately owned homing, carrier, racing, etc pigeons.
One easy way is many of the racing Pigeons/Homing birds are banded. In the DFG regulations there is a section on prohibiting shooting "Antwerp" Pigeons (racing/homing).

Ask me how I know. About the only time I could see someone cited is shooting your neighbors Racing / Homing Pigeons when they fly over or land on your house.
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:58 PM
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Well, here's DFG's official answer:

Hi John

Rock Doves, commonly called pigeons, are considered domestic only when they are being reared in captivity. Feral would be ones that were domestic and somehow released into the wild.

Rock doves in general are wild and regulated as non-game birds. Therefore, they cannot be "taken" unless under a depredation permit. These permit are issued only when requested and only with proof of property damage such as crop damage.

Hope this helps,

Karen

Karen R. Fothergill, Coordinator
Game Bird Heritage Program
Staff Environmental Scientist
California Department of Fish and Game
1812 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone (916) 445-3703
Fax (916) 445-4048
Cell (916) 716-1461
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Old 08-16-2010, 1:15 PM
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wow....didn't see that one coming!

it's a flying rat

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
Well, here's DFG's official answer:

Hi John

Rock Doves, commonly called pigeons, are considered domestic only when they are being reared in captivity. Feral would be ones that were domestic and somehow released into the wild.

Rock doves in general are wild and regulated as non-game birds. Therefore, they cannot be "taken" unless under a depredation permit. These permit are issued only when requested and only with proof of property damage such as crop damage.
Hope this helps,

Karen

Karen R. Fothergill, Coordinator
Game Bird Heritage Program
Staff Environmental Scientist
California Department of Fish and Game
1812 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone (916) 445-3703
Fax (916) 445-4048
Cell (916) 716-1461
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Old 08-16-2010, 1:19 PM
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Hi Curtis.
You cannot find any regulations for the sport take of rock doves because they are an open seaon legal species to hunt in California. Rock doves may be taken anytime of year and there is no daily bag limit.

Please feel free to contact me if you have additional questions.

Karen

Karen R. Fothergill, Coordinator
Game Bird Heritage Program
Staff Environmental Scientist
California Department of Fish and Game
1812 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone (916) 445-3703
Fax (916) 445-4048
Cell (916) 716-1461

Here is the answer I was given one year ago from the same person.

I did not see them on the threatened or endangered species act.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/nonga..._spp/bird.html

Last edited by professionalcoyotehunter; 08-16-2010 at 1:27 PM..
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Old 08-16-2010, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rumblebee View Post
wow....didn't see that one coming!

it's a flying rat

Yep, it's a shocker. People are shooting and trapping them everyday somewhere. In the dairyland around my town, the farmers shoot them and welcome anyone that will shoot more for them.
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Old 08-16-2010, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter View Post
Hi Curtis.
You cannot find any regulations for the sport take of rock doves because they are an open seaon legal species to hunt in California. Rock doves may be taken anytime of year and there is no daily bag limit.

Please feel free to contact me it you have additional questions.

Karen

Karen R. Fothergill, Coordinator
Game Bird Heritage Program
Staff Environmental Scientist
California Department of Fish and Game
1812 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone (916) 445-3703
Fax (916) 445-4048
Cell (916) 716-1461

Here is the answer I was given one year ago from the same person.

I did not see them on the threatened or endangered species act.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/nonga..._spp/bird.html
Boy, they need to make up their mind. I would print out that email and keep it in my shooting bag.
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Old 08-16-2010, 1:31 PM
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I thought that PCH was kidding there for a minute and just changed the letter to suit him But, wholy moly something must have changed from last year to now???
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Old 08-16-2010, 6:25 PM
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Marty, a just retired DFG warden, posted this on our Upland forum regarding pigeons.

Quote:
Rock doves (pigeons) are considered domestic animals and do not fall under the jurisdiction of the DFG so they are not listed in the regs. Peacocks, peahens, guinea fowl, etc. are also considered domestic and likewise are not listed.
Ima gonna blast away on the pigeons.
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Old 08-16-2010, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
Well, here's DFG's official answer:

Hi John

Rock Doves, commonly called pigeons, are considered domestic only when they are being reared in captivity. Feral would be ones that were domestic and somehow released into the wild.

Rock doves in general are wild and regulated as non-game birds. Therefore, they cannot be "taken" unless under a depredation permit. These permit are issued only when requested and only with proof of property damage such as crop damage.

Hope this helps,

Karen

Karen R. Fothergill, Coordinator
Game Bird Heritage Program
Staff Environmental Scientist
California Department of Fish and Game
1812 Ninth Street
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone (916) 445-3703
Fax (916) 445-4048
Cell (916) 716-1461
I would like to hear an official word from the head chief warden himself, not from coordinator karen staff scientist. catch my drift. especially when she is giving two different answers.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:02 AM
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I just sent Karen Fothergill an e-mail requesting clarification on her two contradicting statements.

This is the kind of crap that will get someone in trouble when they thought they were doing things legit.

I copied the statements just as they appeared here so hopefully she will address the discrepancies and give us an educated and researched statement.

I will then double check the old statements and her new statements with Doug Updike, the Environmental Program Manager (her boss).
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Old 08-19-2010, 8:27 AM
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Small update.

Mz. Fothergill responded to my e-mail stating that the contradicting statements are confusing and asked for a number she could reach me at to explain.

Why not just answer my questions directly in an e-mail? Do you not want even more trail of your statements?

Oh by the way I have not received a call from her yet.
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Old 08-19-2010, 9:21 AM
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Someone needs to learn their job a little more. they are a nuisance and can be shot on sight I have heard it from several game wardens.


Here is the code that covers nongame birds but rock doves are not naturally occurring here. they were introduced here.

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/code...4000/3800-3806

Last edited by professionalcoyotehunter; 08-19-2010 at 9:30 AM..
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OffGrid View Post
I just sent Karen Fothergill an e-mail requesting clarification on her two contradicting statements.
How are her statements contradicting?

First she said,
Quote:
Rock doves in general are wild and regulated as non-game birds. Therefore, they cannot be "taken" unless under a depredation permit. These permit are issued only when requested and only with proof of property damage such as crop damage.
then she said,
Quote:
You cannot find any regulations for the sport take of rock doves because they are an open seaon legal species to hunt in California. Rock doves may be taken anytime of year and there is no daily bag limit.
The first statement merely states, you DO NOT need a depredation permit to shoot rock doves.

The second statement clarifies the fact that DFG does not regulate rock doves.

There are no contradictions made by her.
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