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Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun. |
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#42
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#43
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With the reflex sights you keep both eyes open (not sure about tube red dots). I found that the eye over the receiver (right) gave you a normal view and if I closed my left eye there was a LOT of obstruction. However, when I opened my left eye, it actually gave me a view "around" the barrel (not exact, but I don't know how else to describe it). It actually seems like it might be helpful. One would just have to get used to keeping both eyes open as it seems like instinct to close the left eye (right hand shooters) when aiming. Might be kind of funny if it were to give an advantage and the compitition shooters started mounting something small (Burris Fastfires?) on their sg's -Ruskie
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The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once. -Hon. Alex Kozinski (Silvera v Lockyer, 2003) |
#44
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When I first started shooting shotgun (skeet, trap 5 stand) all I had was a sidexside 12 with full chokes and my Rem 1100 I used for 3 gun. The 1100 had a tube that holds 10 extra, fiber optic front/rear sights and an Arredondo speed chute for quick loads. Several old timers asked what the stuff was for and checked out the gun. I did OK, not great just OK, What will happen is you will either get frustrated and quit or like me figure out what will work and end up buying more guns. Just like everything else sure some things are multi purpose but do they do great in all things, no, just OK in all things. HD works for HD and maybe for skeet. Skeet guns work for skeet and maybe for HD. Use what you brung and enjoy, after you get great, use a little Mossy camo 410 pump just cause you don't care (not me a friend) and challenge yourself not others.
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#45
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I'm with you, ignore the old timers stuck in some idealistic world which never existed and do what you want. go to Prado, buy your tokens, and do your thing. You won't find too many of the toe shooters there wearing suspenders and cursing the new kids beneath their breath. |
#46
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I made my point at the end, doubt it if you want but another calgunner was there. I can have him verify if it makes you feel better.
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#47
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The RO knew all the old timers by name, "mr.this" and "mr.that"...new guy was wearing jeans and a tshirt and put his shotgun back in the cardboard box it came in and went home. I shoot a 28" SP1, I would have been embarrased too but that was my first time shooting clays at a legit range...my SP1 is for upland game. Trap was a snooze-fest @ 19/25 on my first try...nothing compared to real birds.
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#48
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Yeah I hate the snobby attitude of some skeet and trap shooters. And its not just old timers. They are raising junior competitors the same way too. I've heard some say they don't like going to certain ranges because people don't use the right guns and they would rather go to other ranges where they can shoot $25, 000 competition skeet and trap guns. People like that need to get over themselves.
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#49
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Yep, and that's the attitude I was talking about in my other thread, before it got deleted.
Tacticool ninjas that are going to "show us". If you guys don't like hanging out with old guys that follow the rules, shoot safely, and shoot expensive guns, find a new place to shoot. Like I said, most ranges that restrict barrel length do it because of the guys that shoot them, not the guns themselves. |
#50
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#51
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It's significant because the new guy was some 25-30 year old that nobody had seen before, versus "the regulars"...believe what you want fella, I was there and I was laughing my *** off. My friend(username "sullivado") did as good or better than me and it was his first attempt too, although he was using my SP1. I bet there are a lot of things in this world you've never seen...does that also mean they don't exist or didn't happen? lol I'm not saying it was that guys first time shooting trap, I didn't ask, but I am saying a good enough shot can use a mossberg 500 or even a red-dot and still get the job done, case closed. In fact, he was Sullivados friend, they knew eachother....
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Last edited by guns4life; 02-21-2013 at 6:20 AM.. |
#52
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You are basically trying to exclude anyone from trying out a new shooting sport because they don't fit in. No wonder the clay sports are not getting many new members. We really should be trying to encourage more people. We should not be telling them they can't participate because we don't like telescoping stocks. If they like clay sports, they will realize on their own that different equipment will help. But instead, you want them to spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment before ever stepping onto a clay range. I don't know many people willing to do this before ever trying out an activity. There is no reason for the gun grabbers to worry. This type of discrimination of I don't like your type of gun or firearm related activity will surely give them the ability to take our guns because if it isn't your type of gun, you believe the person owning is inferior. Please take your old rich white guy ideas from the 19th century and crawl under a rock. Not everyone is old, rich, or white.
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What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? |
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For what it's worth, the day I keep talking about(which was about three weeks ago) the regulars included one really old white guy, one middle aged black guy and one middle aged white guy. My group was myself(30) my friend(27) his girlfriend(26) and then there was the Mossberg guy, he was probably 28-32. It was a pretty diverse group with shotguns ranging from 499 to whatever the black guy had...looked very expensive.
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#55
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All of my friends at the country club are. And guess what, show up in jeans or without a full set of clubs and you don't get to play with us.
Like I said, when in Rome... |
#56
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Sounds like the best reason to wear jeans I've ever heard.
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NRA Patron Member I've written up my ongoing adventures as I learn to hunt. Yes, you CAN fit a case of shotgun shells into a .50cal ammo can. I think i found an optimal solution for ammo can labeling. I made this target for the NRA's Marksman pistol test. I think it's a lot better than the paper plate they suggest. |
#57
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THIS, who shows up to a country club in jeans?
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#58
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This is sad to read.
I love most of the shooting culture and community. I shoot USPSA and 3-gun every weekend and I like shooting clays when I can. I have never heard someone in USPSA say "don't come out unless you have a gun, all your mags, belt, holster, blah blah blah." This is a very inclusive community that regularly invites newcomers to join and offers to lend equipment as needed. We know they'll get hooked (sometimes not) and get their own gear. See the competition board for examples of what I mean. I'm not sure the point of your post ysr_racer. Not trying to be an ***, but sincerely would like to understand. Are you saying that people in a country club are all white, rich, and old so if you're not, then don't bother visiting a country club? Or are you saying shooting sports should be just like a country club where no one gets to shoot unless they're old, white and rich? I've shot with many people at Raahauges, Triple B, and Prado and they have all been very pleasant. I'm 42 (is that old?), asian, and definitely not a Carnegie or a Rockerfeller. I've never felt unwelcome or dismissed whether I brought my Prevail or my Versa Max Tactical. None of these places felt like the country club ysr_racer described.
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Lester W. Lam Pistols and rifles and shotguns, oh my! |
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By "fit in" do you mean they have to be old, white and rich? I think a shooter could fit in by enjoying the sport, respecting the other shooters, practicing safe gun handling and knowing the rules. Do you also have to have a $3k gun and wear the right Murray leather shell holder?
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Lester W. Lam Pistols and rifles and shotguns, oh my! |
#60
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I fit the bill but I'm not white. And I've been turned away from many a country club in my day for exactly that reason. Not white. It was a blessing in disguise. I found clubs that were far more accomodating with very kind and friendly members. Rich too. Your loss, not mine.
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"Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain." - Sir Winston Churchill "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Senator Barry Goldwater |
#61
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#62
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You state there's a problem with my theory. What theory is that? I wasn't trying to state any theories nor dictate anything with my attitude on this subject. Did it come across that way to you? I asked whether you had to be old, white, and rich to fit in or if being respectful and displaying safe gun handling was enough to be accepted. Not sure if you addressed this in your response.
Reads like you're pretty passionate about this and have had some bad experiences with whom you call the tacticool crowd. Honestly, I'm not sure who these people are as I havent had to deal with what you've described below. I shoot USPSA every weekend with a hundred only shooters and 3-gun twice a month. I only shoot skeet and sporting clays four to six times each month so maybe I've just been lucky. I don't like obnoxious jerks. I also don't like dangerous people. I have educated several on acceptable public behavior and proper gun handling on multiple occasions, especially when my kids are with me. A few of these have been old and white. Can't comment on wealth. I think your handling of these situations is appropriate and I think it's a shame these people inconvenience you the way they do. It's not right. Still, I'm not certain I understand your point. Are you against the tacticool crowd or are you saying you have to conform in all aspects (e.g. Old, white, rich) in order to belong? Quote:
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Lester W. Lam Pistols and rifles and shotguns, oh my! |
#63
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#64
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Then you agree with me. The country club exclusionary attitude of accepting old, white and rich as ysr_racer had stated should not be applied to shooting sports. The attitude of the shooter and their respect for the game and their fellow shooters is what matters.
Does that make sense to you or am I still not understanding you? Quote:
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Lester W. Lam Pistols and rifles and shotguns, oh my! |
#65
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For anyone watching this debacle, I'll say thsi:
Coach Z, Captain Dick, and Jordan run a FANTASTIC skeet clinic. You are welcome no matter your shotgun, no matter if you wear jeans, no matter your skin color, and it's not expensive so you don't have to be rich.
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NRA Patron Member I've written up my ongoing adventures as I learn to hunt. Yes, you CAN fit a case of shotgun shells into a .50cal ammo can. I think i found an optimal solution for ammo can labeling. I made this target for the NRA's Marksman pistol test. I think it's a lot better than the paper plate they suggest. |
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I haven't met Jordan, but I couldn't agree more regarding Coach and Dick. They are very inclusive and welcoming.
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Lester W. Lam Pistols and rifles and shotguns, oh my! |
#67
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#68
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Again, why does skeet need to be an elite rich mans sport? It is expensive enough just for targets and ammo, who cares what kind of gun the person next to you is using as long as he/she is conducting them selves in a SAFE and respectfull manner. There was a guy at the last clinic I was at with a pump that had a long barrel and a tactical stock, he did just fine and nobody seemed to have any issues with it. For me Its an auto or O/U , its hard enough without pumping the gun. |
#69
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I joke, I joke Listen guys, I don't make the rules restricting short barreled shotguns at most ranges. I'm just telling you the reason is, in the range owners experience some (most) of the guys that own them are unsafe and have the mind set that they are somehow going to show up the regulars. As I've said before, that's not very likely to happen. Show up, be safe, shoot a gun that meets the ranges requirements, and nobody will care. Last edited by ysr_racer; 02-22-2013 at 3:44 PM.. |
#70
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Wanting to correct a couple of things.
First, no one is going to laugh you off the skeet field if you are shooting a short barreled HD type shotgun, but they won't take you very seriously either unless you do start shooting perfect scores. Second, a dot type sight on a shotgun that you are using for a game like skeet is a very bad idea if you actually want to get good at the game. The reason for this is that a dot type sight on a shotgun is only useful if you are using the shotgun like a rifle, like when hunting deer or possibly turkey (turkey because of the extremely tight choke typically used). When shooting clay sports of any kind, the whole idea is to NOT look at your sight. You look at the target, not the sight. You can rest assured that if this type of sight was useful for hitting targets flying through the air, that people would be using them. Trust me, they are not.
Another comment made here was in regards to using a pistol grip shotgun on a skeet or trap field. I seriously doubt that there are many places in California that would allow a shooter to do so. I know at my club, USI in Concord, it is strictly forbidden. I think you might be able to use one on the pistol range if you are shooting only slugs, but that is the only place it might even be possible at my range. I'd be careful to check the rules where you intend to shoot before you try it or you risk being kicked out. |
#71
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#72
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What the hell?!
This thread started out being kind of useful and informative, but went downhill quick. I was going to walk away from this thread because it appeared the usefulness of it had long since left the room.
The last time I went skeet shooting was with my uncle when I was around 13 or 14 years old and I had a great time. I recently acquired a nice Miroku o/u and was thinking of taking one of the clinics and getting back into skeet. After reading this thread I'm not so certain. My time is precious and I will not spend it in the company of people that place themselves above others based on possessions, dress codes, or stereotyping. I can scratch my shooting itch just as easily punching paper and I know most of the people I run into won't look down on me because I'm not shooting a $3k AR or 1911. We are all there to shoot and it doesn't matter if it's a $100 SKS or a $3k Noveske with all the bells and whistles. At ysr_racer and alfred1222: Congratulations on potentially turning off a potential new skeet shooter. You may want to remember that when you are talking to people not involved in your sport about your sport, you become an ambassador for your sport. You may wish to consider your words and the affect they have a bit more carefully next time. -Ruskie
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The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once. -Hon. Alex Kozinski (Silvera v Lockyer, 2003) |
#73
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Ruskie- don't worry about others, just go and have a fun time.
I always shoot at Raahauges, and AFAIK there is no rule on what type of gun you can use, the only rules on their website are regarding the ammo you can use. As a matter of fact, two months ago my buddy (a calgunner) wanted to go along and another calgunner said he had an extra shotgun for him to use. It turned out to be a converted saiga 12 with a skeleton stock, short barrel, and a big muzzle brake. There was only one person (an old rich white guy) who looked at it and scowled, nobody else cared. My buddy couldn't hit anything with it and ended up borrowing a different gun from another member of our group, and he had a great time. Just last month, another calgunner went with me- he took the 20" barrel off of his mossberg HD gun and installed the 28" barrel for the first time. It was still a black synthetic pump mossberg, if any of the purists were sneering at it, none of us cared enough to notice. We had a great time and he's hooked and wanting to return next month. Basically, focus on the target, and shoot it by instinctively pointing the gun. Don't worry about the sights, and ignore all of the other shooters.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
Thomas Jefferson |
#74
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For the record, ysr_racer is proud to not be a skeet shooter, and the game of skeet is proud of the same thing.
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NRA Patron Member I've written up my ongoing adventures as I learn to hunt. Yes, you CAN fit a case of shotgun shells into a .50cal ammo can. I think i found an optimal solution for ammo can labeling. I made this target for the NRA's Marksman pistol test. I think it's a lot better than the paper plate they suggest. |
#75
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Optics are common for Turkey hunting, heck I use a 4x25 scope with a diamond instead of a crosshair so I know when the turkey is in range, when a Tom's head is larger than te diamond I'm in range. Never seen a red dot used for trap and skeet; not sure why your want to limit your field of view you're not really aiming at a specific point, rather swinging the shotgun to spray out shot like a hose.
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#76
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Dammit ysr you stirring the pot again ?!
Ruskie- if you take another look, you'll notice that ysr and Alfred are not against "tactically inclined" shotguns on the fields; rather it is the attitude which some folk with such guns display... Which is akin to the snobbish attitude which some "regulars" display- a lack of openness. Add to that the occasional guy with a lack of safety sense(no matter the gun) and there's the concern. As most others have said- run what ya brung as long as you follow the rules of the field and game, shoot safely and are courteous. Now, are certain gun setups better for certain purposes, yes. But most folk on the field, whether they're running an mx8 or a mossberg 500, are good, welcoming folk that will take the time to help new shooters and learn from one another. I'm not rich white or old either...and I've been allowed to shoot with ysr on more than one occasion lol Ruskie- hope you get back into it and have fun and meet some good peoples. Do the clinic! Richard and coach and them are great people! Ps- you think he pokes the tactical guys, wait till you see him with a trapshooter like me! he stirs the pot, but is also one of those people who will always offer to help a fellow shotgunner out Pps- I'm typing this on my phone during work lunch- its friggin hard haha Last edited by RayPDA; 02-22-2013 at 12:16 PM.. |
#77
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I'm not talking about using it, I'm talking about not removing it from the shotgun.
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NRA Patron Member I've written up my ongoing adventures as I learn to hunt. Yes, you CAN fit a case of shotgun shells into a .50cal ammo can. I think i found an optimal solution for ammo can labeling. I made this target for the NRA's Marksman pistol test. I think it's a lot better than the paper plate they suggest. |
#78
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Back to the op's original question - I've shot a couple of ghost ring equipped shotguns on the trap field, as well as some weird sight contraption (basically a kind of ghost ring/ red dot thing) on a beretta 390- personally, They make me look at the gun and impedes the sight picture I'm used to- if I try not to use it and pretend I'm shooting it sans ghost rings, etc I do better - ymmv so go for it and let us know how it goes
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#79
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-Alfred1222
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#80
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(I swear, it's like shootin' fish in a barrel) Listen, I don't give a **** what you shoot, but my theory that trap and skeet guys are a little on the sensitive side is getting pretty easy to prove. Sack up, head out to the range, and break some clay. |
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