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  #81  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
Black bears are not protective of their cubs like brown or black bears. That is a myth. Most black bear injuries are people trying to feed the bears.

If you are not trying to feed or approach them, black bears rarely rarely rarely attack. But, when they do, it is to eat you. It is usually, in remote locations. They can be fought off. You should never play dead like with a grizzly.

Grizzly bears are protective of their cubs. They will bluff charge. Black bears won't.

I have backpacked through most of the Sierras. In 30+ trips, I have seen one black bear. They want nothing to do with you. You stand a better chance of being attacked by horny bikini clad cheerleaders for your awesome body than being attacked by a black bear.

Mountain lion attacks are rare too. If it happens, you probably won't see it. They will attack you from behind.

People are what you should worry about. Humans are a dangerous species. They attack for a multitude of reasons and sometimes operate in groups.
No offense this is wrong . Black bears are certainly protective of their cubs . I have seen it in Person and there are Multiple videos of Hunters and people being charged by black bears with and without cubs .
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  #82  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
Normal size bear spray are illegal in CA.


Not sure If they make small size bear spray, not sure if the smaller size would be effective against a bear.


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Umm whats "normal size"? I can buy 8 and 10 ounce cans locally here in the bay area over the counter.
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  #83  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:18 AM
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Stephen Herrero has a great book on Bear attacks. He is considered an expert. He disagrees with the myth of the black bear being hyper protective of cubs. Black bears are very different than brown or grizzly bears.

https://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-.../dp/158574557X

I have read it a couple times. The best thing a person can do is get educated. For the price of a box of ammo, you get knowledge that doesn't go away. Spoiler alert - bear spray does not work that well on black bears.

Just that knowledge right there is worth the price of the book.

I agree. I carry a gun in the backcountry to handle any threat - human or animal. Plus, I just like carrying guns. It is a win/win.

Last edited by Rcjackrabbit; 07-17-2018 at 10:23 AM..
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  #84  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:55 AM
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  #85  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:01 AM
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I have had multiple run ins with black bears up in the eastern sierras. Over the years, they have been getting bolder and not as easy to convince them to leave the area. This is probably due to the drought and they are becoming more stressed. That and some people are still feeding them, either on purpose or through careless food storage. One even tried to open the sliding glass door of the cabin while we were in it! The proprietor of the resort saved the day with a home built super soaker (PVC pipe) he had filled with vinegar. They are now using pepper spray because of the stubbornness of some of the local bruins. I was told that during one encounter, some of the spray drifted back into the lodge and cleared the place of customers and bears! Anywho, I chose to carry this year (last resort), and...........never saw a bear. Good outcome for everyone concerned.

Sigstroker, I believe the shockwave is illegal in Cal. Sawed-off shotgun or some such nonsense.
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  #86  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:16 AM
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loins and bears oh my...... most of the time its the 2 leg varmints you need to look out for ...

that said.... 357mag or my .45 1911 with hot loads , I do keep a can of bear spray around when in camp (where no shooting is permitted) what ever good it would do....
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  #87  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:23 AM
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My son will be leaving in a few days to hike the John Muir trail. It will take him 3 weeks hiking on average 15 miles a day for his 300 mi trip.

He would normally carry his .45 but weight is a huge concern and also various portions of the trail you can not "open" carry....so having a gun buried in one's backpack when confronted with a "urgent" situation be it 2 or 4 legged is problematic.

Spray is likely the way he will go but not preferred. He has 5 or 6 re-supply locations along the way

It is mandatory anyone hiking the John Muir trail use a "bear proof" food container. It empty weighs 2.5 lbs...

While we both have other guns that are considerably lighter than a .45....those are not the ones to take out a black bear....2 legged yeah but unless you get enough well placed rounds in a bear from a .38...you will just piss the bear off and he will mow you down before he bleeds out
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  #88  
Old 07-17-2018, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
My son will be leaving in a few days to hike the John Muir trail. It will take him 3 weeks hiking on average 15 miles a day for his 300 mi trip.

He would normally carry his .45 but weight is a huge concern and also various portions of the trail you can not "open" carry....so having a gun buried in one's backpack when confronted with a "urgent" situation be it 2 or 4 legged is problematic.

Spray is likely the way he will go but not preferred. He has 5 or 6 re-supply locations along the way

It is mandatory anyone hiking the John Muir trail use a "bear proof" food container. It empty weighs 2.5 lbs...

While we both have other guns that are considerably lighter than a .45....those are not the ones to take out a black bear....2 legged yeah but unless you get enough well placed rounds in a bear from a .38...you will just piss the bear off and he will mow you down before he bleeds out
Check into a Diamond Guides choice Holster . Well worth it or one of the Chest packs that poker like Bino Case.
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  #89  
Old 07-17-2018, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
My son will be leaving in a few days to hike the John Muir trail. It will take him 3 weeks hiking on average 15 miles a day for his 300 mi trip.
I am a backpacker. I would just carry a 6" knife and call it good. 300 miles is a long way. He will be fine.

More likely to be abducted by aliens than attacked by a bear. Seriously, the car ride there is more dangerous.

P.S. Most of my trips are 6-8 miles into the backcountry. 15 miles a day! Your son is a stud.

Last edited by Rcjackrabbit; 07-17-2018 at 2:07 PM..
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  #90  
Old 07-17-2018, 3:28 PM
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I lived in Alaska for a year and did something similar to you.

Most people choose the 10 over 45 because of its velocity.

If you do end up getting a 10mm barrel change out the extractor with it, the extractors for a 45 and a 10 are different. Also, the slide is cut slightly differently on a glock 21 than a glock 20, so if you do get another barrel make sure its a 10mm barrel for a glock 21. I also learned the hard way that shooting 10mm out of a 21 will wear out the recoil springs faster than 45, so if you do go that route get a spare for the 10mm.
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  #91  
Old 07-17-2018, 4:11 PM
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This is how you properly defend yourself against bears. Note the use of the English language, as that is the only language they understand. Next, ask a ton of questions in a high-pitched, squeaky voice. When all else fails, resort to pleading with the bear.



Easy peasy.
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  #92  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4GLOCK30 View Post
My son will be leaving in a few days to hike the John Muir trail. It will take him 3 weeks hiking on average 15 miles a day for his 300 mi trip.

He would normally carry his .45 but weight is a huge concern and also various portions of the trail you can not "open" carry....so having a gun buried in one's backpack when confronted with a "urgent" situation be it 2 or 4 legged is problematic.

Spray is likely the way he will go but not preferred. He has 5 or 6 re-supply locations along the way

It is mandatory anyone hiking the John Muir trail use a "bear proof" food container. It empty weighs 2.5 lbs...

While we both have other guns that are considerably lighter than a .45....those are not the ones to take out a black bear....2 legged yeah but unless you get enough well placed rounds in a bear from a .38...you will just piss the bear off and he will mow you down before he bleeds out
Just take the bear spray and leave the gun. My money is that he will be mailing the gun back at the 1st resupply point. I hiked 50 miles of it last year and never saw a bear. Bear canister was never touched either.
I did a 4 day trip with my wife and kids a few weeks ago and she insisted that I carry. I reluctantly did, but it was just extra weight in my pocket.
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  #93  
Old 07-18-2018, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by secondwind View Post
I like to hike.. solo and with my family. At times I pack a glock 21 as a deterrent for bear and mountain lions ...
I hike too but a Ruger Single Six (22 LR) or a S&W 4 inch 38 Special is good to go in my experience. The G21 is great for those two legged varmints.
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  #94  
Old 07-18-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by autoduel View Post
I hiked 50 miles of it last year and never saw a bear. Bear canister was never touched either.
Logic like this is like "I ran across the freeway in heavy traffic and I didn't get run over".
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  #95  
Old 07-18-2018, 11:50 AM
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Bears in So CA mountains are not a threat to a rational person. I have been hiking in the eastern Sierras for 30 years. Never seen one bear.

You have a bigger chance of being abducted by aliens than being killed by a bear.

Carry a gun to protect yourself from humans.
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  #96  
Old 07-18-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
You have a bigger chance of being abducted by aliens than being killed by a bear.

Carry a gun to protect yourself from humans.
In fact, we're 360,000% more likely to be abducted by aliens, than attacked by a black bear.

Carry a gun to protect yourself from aliens!!
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  #97  
Old 07-18-2018, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
They were killed off by '73 Winchesters and Colt Peacemakers. One of the last was killed here locally in Valley Center in the early 1900's.

California brown bears were some of the largest of the species. They also hunted in packs of up to 20 bears. Local Indian tribes were terrified of them, no defense. They roamed the coastal ranges, not the mountains.

These were huge bears. The one killed in Valley Center was 2600 lbs. That's a buffalo sized bear if you can imagine that. The average Rocky mountains brown bear is around 600 lbs.
The VC 2600lb bear is a myth based on unsubstantiated reports. There haven't been bears that big since the days of the short-faced bear some 10,000+ years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
Oh gawd, another bear thread! I LOVE IT.

Seriously... I love bear defense threads.




There USED to be Grizzly Bahr in California, but methinks they moved away. One still sees various brown bear and perhaps black, but unless you get between a mama BAHR and her cubs things will stay kinda quiet.
They didn't move away, the California Grizzly was hunted to extinction.



Let's be real here... The bottom line is that bear spray is your best bet for an encounter. A lot of people fantasize about shooting a charging bear and argue about calibers, but the reality is that its not going to happen, and not in the manner that you think. The possibility of you getting accurate shots off and disabling a bear's central nervous system in a split second are extraordinarily low.

If you are going into bear country, bear spray in the left hand, glock 20 pistol in the right.

Black bears don't scare me, its the brown bastards that make me watch my back.
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  #98  
Old 07-18-2018, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
Bears in So CA mountains are not a threat to a rational person. I have been hiking in the eastern Sierras for 30 years. Never seen one bear.

You have a bigger chance of being abducted by aliens than being killed by a bear.

Carry a gun to protect yourself from humans.
Got charged by a sow bear in my yard in Tuolumne County in the Sierra's. I've leaned to never say never.
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  #99  
Old 07-20-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterimage View Post
This is how you properly defend yourself against bears. Note the use of the English language, as that is the only language they understand. Next, ask a ton of questions in a high-pitched, squeaky voice. When all else fails, resort to pleading with the bear.



Easy peasy.
OMG. I heard the clip played on A&G but never knew where it came from. This is great. She told the bear to come here...
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  #100  
Old 07-20-2018, 12:52 PM
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GJM on PF Forum. He is a guide in Alaska and Swears by 45 Super for bears. He has vetted the HK USP and HK full size with Leigh ammo I believe
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  #101  
Old 07-20-2018, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DASchell View Post
GJM on PF Forum. He is a guide in Alaska and Swears by 45 Super for bears. He has vetted the HK USP and HK full size with Leigh ammo I believe
I can see .45 Super being a good option.

Just be aware that it puts a ton of (potentially catastrophic) stress on some pistols that weren't meant to fire it. Just because it fits in a .45acp chamber doesn't always mean you should do it. So, just do your research on your pistol first before you try it. The HK's you mentioned are ones that I know are safe, and I believe Kimber makes something that's designed for it, I'm not sure about others. At the very least, a lot of .45acp pistols would need upgraded recoil springs to avoid damage.
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  #102  
Old 07-20-2018, 1:21 PM
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A fatter slower friend works for me.
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  #103  
Old 07-20-2018, 1:38 PM
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Bears in So CA mountains are not a threat to a rational person. I have been hiking in the eastern Sierras for 30 years. Never seen one bear.

Yes, a rational person always has 44 reasons to be left alone in bear country. Some people hear no evil, see no evil.
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  #104  
Old 07-20-2018, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterimage View Post
This is how you properly defend yourself against bears. Note the use of the English language, as that is the only language they understand. Next, ask a ton of questions in a high-pitched, squeaky voice. When all else fails, resort to pleading with the bear.



Easy peasy.
My vote would be this ^^^. Or maybe a .357 or .44 lol.
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  #105  
Old 07-20-2018, 4:29 PM
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A .44 mag revolver just because...
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  #106  
Old 07-20-2018, 7:43 PM
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How many times do you think the husband of the woman has had the same thought??
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  #107  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcjackrabbit View Post
I have been hiking in the eastern Sierras for 30 years. Never seen one bear.
Wha?

Then you're doing something weird man. I've seen busloads of them in the Sierra's.
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  #108  
Old 07-21-2018, 4:05 PM
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Go ahead and Fry using a 45 on a bear. If you enjoy your life you'll go ahead and get a Ruger Redhawk Alaskan.
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  #109  
Old 07-21-2018, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BigPimping View Post
Go ahead and Fry using a 45 on a bear. If you enjoy your life you'll go ahead and get a Ruger Redhawk Alaskan.
In Alaska, I would agree... But 4.5 pounds is a whole lotta revolver to carry on you every time you hike in the Sierras, for the 1 in 1,000 chance you even see one, and the 1 in 10,000,000 chance it attacks you.

Even my 2lb Glock 29 is pushing the limits on what I want to carry in the woods every time I go.

My Underwood loads are roughly the ballistic equivalent of a .41 magnum, so I really couldn't justify doubling the weight and halving the cartridge capacity just to take it from .41 magnum(ish) power to .44 magnum power.

Those alaskans are really cool though, and I still want one
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 07-21-2018 at 6:18 PM..
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  #110  
Old 07-21-2018, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
In Alaska, I would agree... But 4.5 pounds is a whole lotta revolver to carry on you every time you hike in the Sierras, for the 1 in 1,000 chance you even see one, and the 1 in 10,000,000 chance it attacks you.

Even my 2lb Glock 29 is pushing the limits on what I want to carry in the woods every time I go.

My Underwood loads are roughly the ballistic equivalent of a .41 magnum, so I really couldn't justify doubling the weight and halving the cartridge capacity just to take it from .41 magnum(ish) power to .44 magnum power.

Those alaskans are really cool though, and I still want one
I've got Both the Glock 29 with Underwood Extreme penitratiors Is what I carry really hard to beat 15 rds of Hot 10mm .
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