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  #1  
Old 03-12-2018, 5:57 PM
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Default IMR 4895 vs 4064

A club member was asking me for input looking to work up a load for LR matches (800 thru 1K) using SMK 175 .308's with either 4895 or 4064. I use 4064, but just thought I'd ask others if there is a preference and why. I normally shoot MR and only recently been shooting LR.
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Old 03-13-2018, 3:07 AM
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It can be done but expect about 2550 FPS with a 24" barrel. 4895 is a bulky powder and takes up a lot of room in the case. IIRC about 43 grains is all that can be stuffed in a average .308 without compressing the powder. I don't like compressing powder. 4064 is not even listed in my books for anything heavier than 155gr

I'd recommend he either get some reloader 15 or MR2000 or on the very outside some H380 that is on sale at bullets.com
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Old 03-13-2018, 8:06 AM
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What type of rifle will be used?
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Old 03-13-2018, 9:24 AM
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Ruger RPR, as-is from the factory.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 03-13-2018 at 9:27 AM..
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:15 AM
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Ruger RPR, as-is from the factory.
I have an old article from Accurate Shooter called A thousand yard odyessy,you can't get there from here with a gas gun.The article was written for the M14/M1A and focuses on the use of IMR 4064 and 168s.The author does state the 175mk was in development and was not part of his load development .
Search for it,if unable to find,send a pm so I can mail a copy to you.Im sure some info may be able to crossover with good results.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:28 AM
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IMR4064 is slightly slower than IMR4895, and is a bit better for the heavier bullets. Some batches of Military issued 7.62x51 Match/sniper ammo was loaded with IMR4064. In longer barrels, with heavier bullets IMR4064 seems a bit better.
With lighter bullets, IMR4895 seems to work a bit better.
Though looking at the Lyman 49th Edition manual, with some bullets IMR4895 has better performance, and with other bullets in a molar weight range, IMR4064 seems to work better.
However, IMR4064 has slightly longer "sticks"(grains) than IMR4895 and because of that, its doesn't meter as well.
If one is loading for a gas gun(M1A or Garand) one is limited by the pressure curve. Something a bolt gun doesn't have problem with.
There were a couple of guys over on the M14 Forum who were experimenting with using IMR4320 in their M14s for use with heavier bullets. It has the smaller sticks like IMR4895, but it slightly slower than IMR4064. I have no idea what the outcome was.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:12 AM
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My LR rifle is a Rem 700, but yes the LRB M14 with a Schuster adjustable plug handles my LR loads of 4064 with 175's.

Anyhow, the 4064 loads with Nosler 175 CC's work fine with my Rem700 rifle, but just seeing if there are better powder choices for 175 SMK's in a Ruger RPR and perhaps some input why.
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Old 03-13-2018, 4:46 PM
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Paul I think the 175g comes down to barrel length. You're only going to get so much speed out of it with a faster powder. 4064 is slower than 4895 as you know but still faster than MR2000 so you may hit a pressure wall before you can get good velocity out of it.

Hell I want to try Reloader 16 or 17 in the 308 and long barrel,
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Anyhow, the 4064 loads with Nosler 175 CC's work fine with my Rem700 rifle, but just seeing if there are better powder choices for 175 SMK's in a Ruger RPR and perhaps some input why.
Varget is better than 4064 with 175's.
4064 is better than 4895 with 175's.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:37 PM
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Varget is better than 4064 with 175's.
4064 is better than 4895 with 175's.
This.
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Old 03-14-2018, 6:11 AM
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I did mention Varget to him based on a couple other people's suggestions too. I do know that the longer barrels optimize the slow powders, but was considering the 20-24" barrels of the RPR if that was a factor?

I had considered RE-15 and 2000-MR for my LR choices originally, but was concerned with temp sensitivity of the double-base powders. At Pendleton we start with cool temps but get baking hot in the afternoon. As kcstott had suggested to me in the past, I should keep my ammo in the ice-box until firing my string.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 03-14-2018 at 7:12 AM..
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Old 03-14-2018, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
I do know that the longer barrels optimize the slow powders, but was considering the 20-24" barrels of the RPR if that was a factor?
No.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:29 AM
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When I dabbled in long range[for me] target shooting some years ago, My favorite load was 42.0-42.5gr IMR 4064 and the SMK 168gr bullet. Rifle was a Rem 700 .308, 26" barrel, SPS model. 500 yards was my distance. Just started fiddling with the 175's and Varget when I stopped. That load showed very good promise, I simply didn't pursue it.
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Old 03-15-2018, 5:33 PM
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Load 45 grains of either with the 175's, whichever your gun likes best. Both loads will be compressed. You can use a 6" or longer drop tube on your funnel and you'll be fine.
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Old 03-16-2018, 8:53 AM
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4064 was a disappointment compared to Varget.
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