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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#321
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No detachable mag and well under 10 round capacity. I don't see how it can be an AW either?
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#322
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You can buy 12ga flares.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#323
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Yeah, but a flare launcher is a flare launcher. They aren't recognized as firearms by law. They are special, exempted, "signal launching" devices.
A shotgun is a shotgun. Recognized by law as a firearm. Also, 12ga flares are designed to be fired by handheld flare guns. I've heard from a number of people that they don't exactly work in shotguns.
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#324
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Quote:
Penal Code 12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison: (1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses....any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle... c) (1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following: (A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. (B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell. (C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. (D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive. (E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person. Last edited by GuyW; 08-22-2008 at 11:01 AM.. |
#325
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Quote:
You may be thinking of the 26.5mm flare pistols with adapter sleeves installed in them...
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#326
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Quote:
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#327
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Quote:
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#328
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This is the flare launcher: You too can buy one at your local West Marine or Boaters World off the shelf.
__________________
Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#329
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Quote:
Last edited by GuyW; 08-22-2008 at 11:37 AM.. |
#330
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Thats the idea. ATF has approved making SBSs out of C&R guns with valid Form 1s to comply with CA and MI law.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#331
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Just received my paperwork back with tax stamp on my AOW home-built AK Pistol with JumboPanda mag lock.
I sent this pic with my application: Last edited by vandal; 08-22-2008 at 8:21 PM.. |
#332
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ke6guj-
You should just make a sticky at the beginning of this thread. I believe this is the third time we've gone over these little nuances and second time people have tried to argue about CA P.C. and C&R SBS's... It's obvious the thread is REALLY long and most have not read it all the way through. Reminds me of studying the AR15 thread on Trusts. My local armorer was tickled to hear I had my .Gov blessing and tax stamp proof to have my 870 barrel shortened to ANY length I want. Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
Last edited by Roccobro; 08-23-2008 at 3:40 PM.. Reason: Typing sucks after 30 hours being awake |
#333
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I screwed up and should have added a couple placeholder posts at the beginning of the thread so I could do that.
I guess I could edit the OP, but I'd hope to keep it clean without edits since it is pretty accurate. Plus, I don't know how much bigger the post can be edited to.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#334
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10,000 characters maximum including spaces will fit in one post.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#336
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If the AR15 is not C&R, then it wouldn't meet the exemption for a legal SBR.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#338
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If anyone has a 4 digit serial numbered "colts armalite" lower, those are from the mid 60's and you could probably SBR them in about 6-7 years from now when they turn 50 years old.
Of course, most of those are still in the inventory of the US Air Force...
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#339
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A brand new shotgun originally equiped from the factory with a pistol grip is technically NOT a shotgun by california law because it not intended to be shoulder fired. The brand new "un-shotgun" can be registered as an AOW (there is no California law against AOW's except pen guns), and once this is done it can be registered as a SBS because it would fall under the AOW exemption. GuyW, either I am completely missing something you posted earlier (and i've read this entire thread 3 times), or we are talking about two different things. |
#340
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Quote:
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__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#341
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Thank you very much. Looks like I will have to do this with a C&R 870.
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#343
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Barrel codes on 870s aren't 100% accurate because the barrels are easily removable and swappable. Your best bet is to call Remington and get a born-on date via the serial number. When I called Remington, I asked if they had a ending serial number for 1957 and I was told 572,000. That would be without a prefix letter.
Even with that approximate serial number, I'd still call Remington to confirm.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#344
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sbs
Quote:
t454xxxv |
#345
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I'm gonna guess and say 80's on that. Another member found some S-prefix guns and they were around 1970, IIRC.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#346
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I see that as a 1970 model on my copied list of date codes from the BB of gun values. "S" is 1969 or early 70
Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#347
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On a serious go-to-jail issue like this - (once I determined via phone that the gun was over 50 yrs old) I'd pay for a letter from Remington (or whomever), and get it date stamped by the Post Office somehow...
Last edited by GuyW; 08-25-2008 at 2:33 PM.. |
#348
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Your AK Pistol now an AOW, Right? Well... What if you wanted to shoot it as a Pistol by removing the forward grip one day? Because it is an AOW, does the forward grip always have to stay on? |
#349
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Can the serial numbers on the Remington 870s before 1957 have a suffix? I know that they dont have a prefix and the numbers are (should) be under 572,000.
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"1911 mag, twinkie, twinkie, cupcake, primary weapon mag" |
#350
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My two 1951 870s had a V as the suffix, and a call to Remington with the complete serial number with the suffix was given, and they confirmed the 1951 born-on date.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#351
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Yeah i noticed on gunbroker that 870s before 1957 have the serial numbers before 572000 with V as a suffix. Too bad my focus right now is on an AR build right now.
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"1911 mag, twinkie, twinkie, cupcake, primary weapon mag" |
#352
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There was so much hub bub about the Destructive Devices. Everyone kept telling me anything over .50 cal was a DD... All I could find was legislation on bores OVER .60. People were giving me bumm advice on DDs! Okay, who's gunna sell me a .55 Caliber Boyes?
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Today, they walk among us. They’re on the television, they write for the newspapers, they have infiltrated the schools, the political system, and law enforcement. They call themselves Liberals. |
#353
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Now, if you had a C&R FFL and could get CLEO sign-off, you could buy that .55 Boyes and have it shipped directly to you, no CA dealer needed. Otherwise, you are gonna have to find a dealer willing to transfer one in and then transfer it to you, or your trust, on a Form 4.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#354
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I don't understand how a CLEO sign-off comes into play with the C&R FFL. Can you explain? Is this from a federal or state requirement? I have a C&R FFL (which I think has lapsed... gotta renew it), but I'm not yet familiar with the rules for things that are both C&R and NFA items, particularly in this special case of "NFA items that CA doesn't care about quite as much".
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#355
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All Individual transferees require the CLEO sign-off unless the transferee is licensed as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer under the GCA and is a SOT under the NFA. C&R FFLs do not meet that exemption. But, they can receive C&R firearms in interstate commerce without a local dealer needed. look at instruction E on the Form 4, http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53204.pdf
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#356
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THAT"S 100% AWESOM! And that's my point! Getting a .55 caliber boyes was as easy as I thought it was! I was getting bum advice. All I have to do is the ATF thing! woohoo
__________________
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Today, they walk among us. They’re on the television, they write for the newspapers, they have infiltrated the schools, the political system, and law enforcement. They call themselves Liberals. |
#357
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Thanks for the explanation and reference, Jack. Please forgive me for being dense, but I'd like to clarify a few more points:
First, if this hypothetical Boyes rifle was transferred through an FFL rather than directly to the C&R-licensed buyer, would the CLEO sign-off still be necessary? That wasn't entirely clear to me when I looked over that form. Second, would this FFL need to be a SOT-paying NFA-type FFL, or would any old FFL dealer willing to do the transfer be OK? Third, am I correct in assuming that the CLEO sign-off is entirely at their discretion, even though they're just stating that they have no reason to believe that the buyer would use the weapon in an illegal manner? |
#358
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I don't know of any lightly armoured German tanks around here...
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Today, they walk among us. They’re on the television, they write for the newspapers, they have infiltrated the schools, the political system, and law enforcement. They call themselves Liberals. |
#359
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There aren't too many zombies, either, but that doesn't stop us from building our OLL black rifles!
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#360
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I think a regular FFL could do it, but they would have to pay the $200 tax to get to them, and then you would have another $200 tax to get to you. Quote:
That is why the trust option has become so popular in the last few years. I would guesstimate that thousands of trusts have been created nationwide for that reason. Unless you really wanted it to be a .55 Boyes, you'd be better finding a converted .50BMG Boyes. Those should be exempt from the CA .50BMG rifle ban as a C&R.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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