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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#165
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Man, that krink is sweet as well. I should have bought a kit when they were cheap. I think I'm gonna cut down a Romy G kit and make a fake krink. |
#166
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The krink doesnt need to be registered right? Is it just pictured for a size comparison..
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#167
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OK so if I have a pistol that I want to turn into an SBR by adding a buttstock, as I read this thread that is legal as long as it isn't an AW? Or does it have to be a C+R to do that with?? What about the high power buttstocks on old wwII pistols?
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#168
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As I see it pictured, it doesn't need to be registered as an AW since I'm assuming it was built from a flat and it does appear to have BB mod to make the magazine non-detachable. And the mag is probably a 10/30 mag that only holds 10 rounds.
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#169
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to be able to SBR'ed in CA it would have to be a C&R, but it would still need to comply with CA's AW rules. I have to think about it, for CA AW rules, would be be a pistol due to the <16" barrell, or a rifle due to the stock. Heck, it may be both. If a pistol, it may be AW legal. But as rifle, it has a pistol grip that would make it an AW with the detachable mag.
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#170
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#171
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I'd send in a Form 1 on it and see what happens. I know that the ATF has approved an Form 1 SBR app on a C&R handgun to comply with C&R SBR Michigan state requirements which are very similar to CA C&R SBR requirements. |
#172
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I registered it as a pistol with CADOJ using the self-report form.
It's pictured because this is my "Thanks CalGuns!" pic -- what I would not have known I could get without this site. |
#173
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I still have a seller of a C&R Remmy 870 for $250 shipping standing by if anybody is interested. He has not put it up to auction and doesn't want his info blasted on an online forum so PM me if you want it.
EDIT: seller is out of state. NOT local to any CA city. EDIT2: 870 pending sale. ALSO! it has been brought to my attention some older 870 barrels (improved and skeet and poly chokes) are VERY rare and should be "saved" from being cut down if possible. The Remington Society is full of responsible gun peeps that can put the good stuff to use. This seller would like them saved also, and can answer if anybody has Q's. Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
Last edited by Roccobro; 03-28-2008 at 10:09 PM.. |
#174
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OK so I can take my model 37 and pistol grip it and chop the BBL since it is C&R and qualifies for SBS (I want to go less than 30" OAL) but to do the same with a non C&R shotgun it needed to never ever have had a buttstock on it? Is that what I am getting from this thread? Or perhaps I am not understanding the difference between AOW and SBS?? Feel free to tell me to go back and re-read the entire thread since I only read it once. :-)
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#175
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Now in CA you can own SBR’s and SBS’s if they are C&R. The tax stamp is $200 for these regardless if you make them or buy them in a NFA configuration. It should be noted, that this does not exempt a weapon from the AW rules so you could not have a semi-auto SBR that is shorter than 30” or that has any “evil features”. There are much better details throughout the thread. If you are thinking about doing this, I encourage you to read it through as many times as you need to fully understand it. Follow the links that are posted in it as they have even more information. Finally do your own research, do not take our word for it. We are not attorneys.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#177
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Oh, the humanity!
Cutting down all those nice old guns
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Freedom does not die alone -- Camus, Homage to an Exile People generally quarrel because they cannot argue -- G.K. Chesterton It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties -- James Madison |
#178
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CA has their own defintion of pistols, rifles, and shotguns, and an AOW registration does not preclude CA from still calling your AOW a pistol. Quote:
Of course, that is just my opinion and there may be some other exemption lurking in the code that will help us, I just haven't found it yet. edit: and if you take that AOW and put a stock on it, it is no longer an AOW, even if you take the stock back off. Because, once the stock goes on, it becomes a rifle or shotgun, and you can't go from rifle/shotgun to AOW. It would need to go to an SBR/SBS. Last edited by ke6guj; 03-29-2008 at 11:46 AM.. |
#179
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__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#180
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The Idea of an SBR MKI got me thinking,, not nearly as cool as a 10"bbl but...
C&R 1911 22 conversion kit Buttstock compatible mainspring housing Buttstock for same..... Since the 45ACP would be AW here but legal other places do you think you could reg' it in both calibers? Just spittballing.... RGB Last edited by dragonbait1a; 04-16-2008 at 3:26 PM.. Reason: typed too fast, typos..... |
#181
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interesting idea there. With the C&R 1911, you should be able to meet the 12020 C&R SBR exemptions, but I don't know on the AW side. Does a temporary conversion kit to rimfire exempt you from centerfire AW rifle regs since it has a stock? And if were also considered a pistol due to the <16" barrel, it wouldn't be a AW pistol since it has no evil features.
As for reg'ing in multiple calibers, AFAIK, the ATF requires you to put a single caliber/length down on the Form 1 now. Various barrel lengths, such as 8-15", are denied regularly and the Form 1 returned for corrections. Once the Form 1 has been approved, you can temporarly change lengths/calibers as you see fit. If you were to permanently change it so that it would no longer be able to match the Form 1, they recommend that you send a clarification letter so that they can update their records. |
#182
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Sorry, I don't want to read the thread again, but why would the .45ACP be an AW if it was to be used in a Registered SBR in CA?
Is it the pistol grip and detachable mag? That would only apply to an "outside the grip magazine", and there is no barrel shroud.. Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#183
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Thanks, I keep reading about "registerd in 9mm 223 and 308" for H&K trigger packs so i thought it had to be listed
Being a pessimist it's a Pistol and a rifle. As a rifle if it was centerfire then OAL and pistolgrip features apply. As a pistol the magazine outside the grip, second handgrip, threaded barrel and shrouded barrel rules apply. a 1911 22 conversion doesn't have these (neither would the aforementioned MK I) CA defines handgun differently then the feds as notated above. Of course if it wasn't semiauto none of these would be an issue. Now, I may be overcautious. But as SBR'ing a pistol not only raises a flashing Xenon sign above you it steps on toes too. "Them darn calgunners are at it again." I suppose those that have NFA guns have lawyer money too, but just as it's EVERY gun owners responsibility to obey the laws it's DOUBLY important for NFA owners to be upstanding citizens. RGB Last edited by dragonbait1a; 04-16-2008 at 8:03 PM.. Reason: forgot thanks |
#184
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Whoa whoa WHOA! First you say I can afford a lawyer and then your calling me a "upstanding citizen"??? Who do you think I is?
IF you do not want to fit a 16" barrel to your 1911 (they make 'em, and some make 'em CHEAP!) then you would NEED to make it a SBR if your going to put a stock on it. The only other way is if the pistol is a C&R and was mfgr'd with the butt stock (like the fancy officer Lugers and rare 1911's from WWII), then it is "accepted" by the BATFE that they are to be used in that fashion. But the chances of your C&R being one of those prized heirlooms is rather slim. If you have the desire and the extra $200, just fill out the Trust stuff and ATF forms and go for it. What is the worst they can do? Say no and send you check back? BTW, making it a .22 won't circumvent the SBR thing. Pistol + shoulder stock = SBR, also, pistol + 16" barrel + shoulder stock = legal, http://www.calgunlaws.com/modules.ph...rticle&sid=396 last, rifle - 16" barrel or OAL< 26"(?) = SBR or illegal configuration Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#185
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Points of clarity
Sorry, I wasn't clear. SBR a 1911 with a 22 conversion kit for the buttstock. the second post was regarding how SB23 would interpret an SBR. It would be a Pistol (as it's barrel is less then 16") AND a rifle (as it is "Designed to be fired from the shoulder").
So you have to comply with BOTH the pistol features list and the rifle list. To avoid the rifle list a 22 conversion (that would be my choice for the caliber of record on the NFA paperwork), and then just make sure you don't add any Pistol AW features. You don't have to have money on tap for a lawyer to own NFA items, it was a gross over-generalization. I wouldn't begin to tread the NFA path without a lawyer personally. Capital assets would also a person prerequisite. That is a home that I will inhabit for the foreseeable future. Different strokes for different folks. RGB |
#186
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I think I get your line of thinking.
Once a shoulder stock is installed, it IS a rifle you have manufactured (short or regular- does not matter). If you keep the barrel within legal limit (>16") you don't have to file any papers whatsoever and your legal. Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
Last edited by Roccobro; 04-17-2008 at 1:47 PM.. Reason: Took out personal feelings and interpretations |
#187
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More NFA tax stamps have made it into CA. An AOW Form 1 this time.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#189
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Yup, ATF is approving AOWs in CA. Getting permission to make on a Form 1 is easy. Its getting one transfered on a Form 4 which is still in process. Finding a local Class 3 dealer willing to transfer one is the hard part.
So, making your own "super shorty" is doable on a Form 1, but buying a "real" super shorty on a Form 4 hasn't been done yet. You may want to look at this thread as well. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&highlight=aow
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#190
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Cool, sometime next year maybe I'll do this. Maybe not a real "supershorty", but maybe something with more cool factor, like a pen gun or some unusual thing like this. I don't have any practical use for any of these things, I'm just interested in the unusual and obscure.
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"Weakness is provocative." Senator Tom Cotton, president in 2024 Victoria "Tori" Rose Smith's life mattered. |
#191
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well, a pen gun would be a no-no. Pen guns are specifically exempted from the AOW exemption.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#192
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Geez. Of course, there's an exemption to the exemption. Pen guns are responsible for school shootings, terrorism, etc. And school shooting perpetrators and terrorists insist on only using legally-owned, NFA-registered weapons so if you deny them access to the NFA, they'll certainly not commit their heinous crimes.
Anyway, ok, no pen guns. But the other stuff is cool. And it's something you could build yourself.
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"Weakness is provocative." Senator Tom Cotton, president in 2024 Victoria "Tori" Rose Smith's life mattered. |
#193
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I didn't want to wade through this thread again, but has anyone received any clarification on AOWs as they pertain to the Handgun Safety Law?
The "Smooth-Bore Pistol" definition of "Any Other Weapon" throws up some red flags here. It seems that DOJ could really come down on this from that angle. Does an AOW "pistol" need to comply with the HSL? Any dealer considering an in-bound Form 4 transfer of a Serbu Super Shorty or any other shotgun-based AOW will want to definitive clarification this. |
#194
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Funny this thread was awakened yesterday as I got my Form 1 in the mail for my SBS today.
WOOHOO! Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#195
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Congrats.
Wasn't that sweet opening up that envelope and seeing that $200 stamp on the Form?
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#196
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I almost peeled it off the form just checking it out!
Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#197
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Wouldn't showing the Class 3 dealer your Form 1 (with da stamp!) enough to show that the laws allowed it would also allow a transfer of a similar piece on a Form 4? I would guess that Class 3 dealers in Calif. are not used to dealing with non-LE agencies, and would pretty much scoff at doing anything with the general public.
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CA, TX, CA, now in WA |
#198
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Next step is to get an approved Form 4 through a local Class 3. However, the firearms fund has to be replenished. I could go in there and talk to him, but if I wasn't ready to buy, he'd probably just assume I was one of those people that like to talk **** and finger**** the merchandise.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#199
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#200
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I wondered about this too with the standard SBS exemption. Anything with a barrel length under 16" is a pistol by definition. I looked to the single-shot exemption here to avoid the HSL requirement. Pretty easy to accomplish on a shotgun with some wood dowel blocking the mag tube.
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