Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Shotgun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:33 AM
NapalmCheese's Avatar
NapalmCheese NapalmCheese is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,840
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
I think I have settled on some #4 Buck..... should be the best of both worlds....

The slugs are going to be for the range, as that is all they allow. I don't think I will get to pattern my shotgun with buck.... I initially wanted the #00, but I think that might be too aggressive... I don't want too much penetration into walls and such.
If you are of the opinion that the FBI protocol for judging efficacy of ammunition is worth following then be advised that #4 buck sort of half passes. The majority of the shot tends to penetrate to about the 12 inch mark in gel, with some penetrating further and some not making it to 12 inches. In other words, #4 buck is the least penetrating shotgun ammunition that still generally passes FBI muster.

In this wide world of compromises I think #4 buck is a good compromise over #00 for personal protection distances.
__________________
Calguns.net, where everyone responding to your post is a Navy Force Delta Recon 6 Sniperator.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:38 AM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
If you are of the opinion that the FBI protocol for judging efficacy of ammunition is worth following then be advised that #4 buck sort of half passes. The majority of the shot tends to penetrate to about the 12 inch mark in gel, with some penetrating further and some not making it to 12 inches. In other words, #4 buck is the least penetrating shotgun ammunition that still generally passes FBI muster.
Sounds like pretty much exactly what he's looking for: the least penetrating, but still effective ammo

Have fun OP, enjoy your ammo tests and new shotgun!
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:38 AM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
If you are of the opinion that the FBI protocol for judging efficacy of ammunition is worth following then be advised that #4 buck sort of half passes. The majority of the shot tends to penetrate to about the 12 inch mark in gel, with some penetrating further and some not making it to 12 inches. In other words, #4 buck is the least penetrating shotgun ammunition that still generally passes FBI muster.

In this wide world of compromises I think #4 buck is a good compromise over #00 for personal protection distances.
Yup, that is why I want to use #4 buck..... Based on what I have read, it is the medium... I don't want to be firing slugs in the house due to collateral damage, my wife and daughter will be trained (probably requiring less kick) -- those are the main 2 reasons... #4 buck seems to be the most effective, without going all crazy.... seems like the best of both worlds..... I am not hunting a duck..
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:40 AM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
Yup, that is why I want to use #4 buck..... Based on what I have read, it is the medium... I don't want to be firing slugs in the house due to collateral damage, my wife and daughter will be trained (probably requiring less kick) -- those are the main 2 reasons... #4 buck seems to be the most effective, without going all crazy.... seems like the best of both worlds..... I am not hunting a duck..
FYI though, you might have trouble finding #4 buck at walmart. Don't settle for #4 turkey loads, those are different, and VERY high recoil. If they don't have #4 buck, source some online or check a sporting goods store (Sportsman's Warehouse, Bass Pro, etc)
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:46 AM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
FYI though, you might have trouble finding #4 buck at walmart. Don't settle for #4 turkey loads, those are different, and VERY high recoil. If they don't have #4 buck, source some online or check a sporting goods store (Sportsman's Warehouse, Bass Pro, etc)
I do have guns fishing and other stuff in Dublin..... there is also a Big 5 close by,.. I swear I read there was something else as well.

GFOS Dublin is where I will be going to shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:58 AM
Erion929's Avatar
Erion929 Erion929 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: So. Orange County, CA.
Posts: 4,707
iTrader: 79 / 100%
Default

Cheapest #00 buckshot I've found:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/177...shot-9-pellets

Wish the #4 or #1 would price similarly
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 02-10-2016, 10:19 AM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
Cheapest #00 buckshot I've found:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/177...shot-9-pellets

Wish the #4 or #1 would price similarly
Midway recently switched to the S&B stuff, it used to be Estate brand stuff for the $79.99/250 deal there. Not sure which is better, but I ordered a case of their S&B yesterday, so we'll see how it goes. I love the Estate 00 shells, only complaint is that the roll-crimp makes them a tad but longer, so my magazine holds 1 less. I imagine the same will be true for the S&B ones, but we'll see.

Midway lists the Estate shells at 2.46" long, and rated 1320fps.
the S&B ones are 2.47" long, rated 1200fps (so probably less recoil).
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.



Last edited by CandG; 02-10-2016 at 10:23 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 02-10-2016, 11:26 AM
Mayor McRifle's Avatar
Mayor McRifle Mayor McRifle is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 7,647
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
Yup, that is why I want to use #4 buck..... Based on what I have read, it is the medium... I don't want to be firing slugs in the house due to collateral damage, my wife and daughter will be trained (probably requiring less kick) -- those are the main 2 reasons... #4 buck seems to be the most effective, without going all crazy.... seems like the best of both worlds..... I am not hunting a duck..
Here's some info about #1 buckshot, if you haven't already read it as part of your research: http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-...ol-1-buckshot/
__________________
Anchors Aweigh

Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:27 PM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I am a little confused between buckshot and birdshot.....

Is the scale the same? or is there a #4 birdshot and a #4 buckshot?

From what I was told, 00 is buckshot, up to 9 which is birdshot, but they are the same scale.

Last edited by jimbo74; 02-16-2016 at 10:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:41 PM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

They are very different:

#4 buck is .24" pellets, 21 of them per ounce.
#4 bird is .13" pellets, 135 of them per ounce.

The picture you posted above is birdshot. The buckshot will be specifically labeled "Buck" on the box.

See here for more info: http://www.wilsonprecision.com/shotinfo.html

And see this video for a a comparison in performance:

__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:46 PM
ElDub1950's Avatar
ElDub1950 ElDub1950 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ohio (Prev. El Dorado Hills)
Posts: 5,688
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
I am a little confused between buckshot and birdshot.....

Is the scale the same? or is there a #4 birdshot and a #4 buckshot?

From what I was told, 00 is buckshot, up to 9 which is birdshot, but they are the same scale.....
Might help.
I doubt if the 67% scale is correct anymore .. pic has been resized.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:46 PM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

wow, so I went to 3 different stores today, and they all said it was the same scale...... Glad I didn't buy anything.....

2 of them were chain sporting goods stores, but the other was an actual gun store.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 02-10-2016, 9:57 PM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

I'm not surprised you're having trouble finding it in stores, I don't recall ever really seeing any in stores either, although I've never specifically looked for it either. Should be able to buy it online no problem though.

Look for pictures of medium-sized animals on the box, rather than little squirrels and birds, that'll be a good indication.

It will look something like this:



That one sells for $0.65/shell from here:http://www.midwayusa.com/product/177...hot-27-pellets





.
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 02-10-2016, 10:13 PM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

ok, so I have found some in stores, now that I know a bit more what I am looking @.... Pretty sure GFOS Dublin, had this:

Hevi-Shot Hevi-Duty Home Defense Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 13/16 oz #4 Buckshot

https://media.midwayusa.com/producti...742/742866.jpg

I didn't get that one, because I had no idea what I was looking at, and thought a name brand would be better, but I am learning, I don't know much


What about liek the PDX1S and such HD specific loads?
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 02-10-2016, 10:19 PM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
ok, so I have found some in stores, now that I know a bit more what I am looking @.... Pretty sure GFOS Dublin, had this:

Hevi-Shot Hevi-Duty Home Defense Ammunition 12 Gauge 2-3/4" 13/16 oz #4 Buckshot

https://media.midwayusa.com/producti...742/742866.jpg

I didn't get that one, because I had no idea what I was looking at, and thought a name brand would be better, but I am learning, I don't know much


What about liek the PDX1S and such HD specific loads?
Hevi-shot are non-lead, frangible pellets. Maybe good, maybe bad, I dunno, just an FYI.

PDX1 only makes slugs and slug/buckshot-combo loads I think. I've used the slug/buck combo shells before, and I like them, but they well penetrate walls like a mo-fo.
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 02-10-2016, 10:21 PM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Hevi-shot are non-lead, frangible pellets. Maybe good, maybe bad, I dunno, just an FYI.

PDX1 only makes slugs and slug/buckshot-combo loads I think. I've used the slug/buck combo shells before, and I like them, but they well penetrate walls like a mo-fo.
for the PDX1, yeah, that what I was worried about.... The ones you showed above, I did see those on Midway.....

Is there a better place to order ammo online?
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 02-11-2016, 8:05 AM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
for the PDX1, yeah, that what I was worried about.... The ones you showed above, I did see those on Midway.....

Is there a better place to order ammo online?
There are a lot of places like midway, but Midway is usually pretty good too. Plus, I just got an email that they have free shipping on orders of $150 or more right now, so there's that. I see that particular ammo is backordered til tuesday, but you should still be able to get the free shipping if you order it before sunday night.

Other good places to check: SGammo.com & targetsports.com
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 02-15-2016, 7:51 PM
Snerk's Avatar
Snerk Snerk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Rohnert Park, CA
Posts: 168
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Figured I would bump this rather than making a new thread.

I'm getting a 12ga shotgun soon, and live in a relatively small apartment. ~600sq.ft. If somebody breaks in through my front door they are maybe 10ft away from my bedroom door, if they break in through my sliding glass door they are maybe 25ft. There are apartments on all sides of me as well.

What would be the best combination of stopping power and preventing overpenetration? From my reading, I'm leaning towards #4 buckshot, but does my relatively small area or short range mean that I should go with something lighter?

edit:

also, low recoil stuff. since the shotgun may be used by either myself or my fiancee, and she's a lot smaller than I am.

Last edited by Snerk; 02-15-2016 at 7:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 02-15-2016, 7:55 PM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

#4 buck seems to be the best from what I have been reading, it is the minimum in effective stopping power and should cut down on over-penetration of walls and doors.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 02-15-2016, 9:42 PM
clunkmess clunkmess is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 291
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 02-15-2016, 9:43 PM
ElDub1950's Avatar
ElDub1950 ElDub1950 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ohio (Prev. El Dorado Hills)
Posts: 5,688
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snerk View Post
Figured I would bump this rather than making a new thread.

I'm getting a 12ga shotgun soon, and live in a relatively small apartment. ~600sq.ft. If somebody breaks in through my front door they are maybe 10ft away from my bedroom door, if they break in through my sliding glass door they are maybe 25ft. There are apartments on all sides of me as well.

What would be the best combination of stopping power and preventing overpenetration? From my reading, I'm leaning towards #4 buckshot, but does my relatively small area or short range mean that I should go with something lighter?

edit:

also, low recoil stuff. since the shotgun may be used by either myself or my fiancee, and she's a lot smaller than I am.
Since you're talking about a BG coming through the front or back door, keep in mind, the door is going to be open ( probably not good to blast a potential BG through closed doors ). So anything that misses is going to continue on at full power through the apartment complex.

It's the old basics of knowing what's beyond your target. Open the doors and see if there's any possibility of a safe shot at someone standing in your doorway. If your neighbor's window, or busy street, or busy sidewalk, is in the direct line of fire, you need to come up with a plan B.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 02-15-2016, 9:47 PM
cbsdd00 cbsdd00 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 459
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

I have 000 buck in mine. Overkill?
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 02-15-2016, 10:31 PM
Snerk's Avatar
Snerk Snerk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Rohnert Park, CA
Posts: 168
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
Since you're talking about a BG coming through the front or back door, keep in mind, the door is going to be open ( probably not good to blast a potential BG through closed doors ). So anything that misses is going to continue on at full power through the apartment complex.

It's the old basics of knowing what's beyond your target. Open the doors and see if there's any possibility of a safe shot at someone standing in your doorway. If your neighbor's window, or busy street, or busy sidewalk, is in the direct line of fire, you need to come up with a plan B.
Behind the front door is my neighbor's front door and the slab siding.

Behind my sliding glass door is a number of bushes and our fence, which does have some pallets up against it, but otherwise not much. After that, it's cars.

Outside the bedroom window is nothing, just the parking lot. With cars.

I have liability insurance so if there is an intruder or an ND, I am financially covered (for quite a bit of money), but I agree that because of my apartment's layout, discharging a firearm would be inadvisable. Not that it ever is advisable, but I think you understand.

Realistically my thought was that for the $250 I paid OTD for the shotgun, it would make more sense to use that compared to the 9mm, even with 147gr JHPs.

It's my hope that I never have to encounter such a scenario (especially at this apartment), and that if I do, that my presence alone would be enough. There's little opportunity for me to be quiet or tactical with only two rooms and a small area in my apartment as even the noise of me getting out of bed and grabbing the shotgun would be pretty obvious. Regardless, if the scenario arises, I'd rather do some simple drywall work rather than looking at a considerable amount more damage and liability than I have to.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 02-15-2016, 10:51 PM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

That is why its #4 buck.......

I have read through tons of threads here, and some many opinions..... You are going to have to read all of them, and look what you are looking for... From what I read, #4 is going to have the best stopping power, AND the least busting through walls...

Heck yeah a slug will stop someone if I hit them, but if I miss, it's going to keep going for awhile, through pretty much anything it feels like
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 02-16-2016, 6:40 AM
ysr_racer ysr_racer is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewhere lost in the O.C.
Posts: 12,017
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 02-16-2016, 7:05 AM
ElDub1950's Avatar
ElDub1950 ElDub1950 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ohio (Prev. El Dorado Hills)
Posts: 5,688
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

I assume you posted this as an example of what not to get? This is birdshot not buckshot. Hint is the big bird on the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 02-16-2016, 5:31 PM
BigPimping's Avatar
BigPimping BigPimping is offline
Still in The Game
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Norcal. East Bay.
Posts: 20,808
iTrader: 63 / 100%
Default

00 Buck. 9mm pellets and a lot of them.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 02-16-2016, 8:07 PM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
I assume you posted this as an example of what not to get? This is birdshot not buckshot. Hint is the big bird on the box.
3" 1200fps loads though, it shouldn't be completely ruled out. No, I won't use it... but it might suit someone's needs. Having shot plenty of 3" #4 turkey loads, I can tell you it definitely ain't your average bird shot. But it will probably still go through a wall. Realistically, anything that will kill a man will go through a wall. Anyways, I think OP is on the right track with #4 buck, we can probably let this thread die since he's already decided to go with it.
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 02-16-2016, 10:17 PM
crono35 crono35 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 138
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

There is no such thing as too deadly. This resides in my nightstand.

Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 02-16-2016, 10:23 PM
CandG's Avatar
CandG CandG is offline
Spent $299 for this text!
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 16,970
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crono35 View Post
There is no such thing as too deadly. This resides in my nightstand.

No lasers? What a useless weapon. A suppressed Glock with a drum mag, several grenade launchers, shoulder brace, and a scope with a backup ACOG is neat, but completely useless without lasers.
__________________
Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.



Last edited by CandG; 02-16-2016 at 10:27 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:27 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy