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  #1  
Old 11-09-2018, 7:29 AM
pandimus pandimus is offline
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Default Guns taken after suicide. (LA county)

My good friend unfortunatly commited suicide monday night. He went in the backyard and shot himself.
His wife heard the shot, ran to the backyard saw his body and called 911. When the police came his wife was hysterical, so they basically 51/50 her to the hospital. But in the process they confiscated his guns. He had 12 guns in total.
They took several pistols, an m1 garande, and several others.
Basically she now needs to go through a beauricratic nightmare to get the guns back. Apparently a 30 dollar fee to initiate the process and 54 dollars per gun fee as well.

There are a few guns in particular that i have a question about.
He had 1 AR15 that was an 80 percent that he didnt serialize nor register.
Plus several AR15 that he bought pre-ban and legally DROSed them, but did not register them as assault weapons nor turn them into featureles or do the reciever mod to keep magazine locked in.

Are those particular weapons gone forever? i/e not worth the hassle to get back?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2018, 7:56 AM
Dano3467 Dano3467 is offline
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I would say those AR's are gone forever..but someone with more knowledge will chime in for sure
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:25 AM
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Not to sound harsh; however, a good friend, and her husband, shoots himself and within a week you/she are concerned about getting the guns back. I guess the bigger question would be, does she even want the guns back. Unless she is an avid shooter, most in her situation would not be in a hurry to get them back. In regards to the "illegal" stuff, it's gone and she won't get it back. If she still wants a firearm for personal protection, it might be easier, and much faster, for her to purchase her own while playing the waiting game of getting back whatever she is still legally allowed to have returned to her.
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Old 11-09-2018, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
Not to sound harsh; however, a good friend, and her husband, shoots himself and within a week you/she are concerned about getting the guns back. I guess the bigger question would be, does she even want the guns back. Unless she is an avid shooter, most in her situation would not be in a hurry to get them back. In regards to the "illegal" stuff, it's gone and she won't get it back. If she still wants a firearm for personal protection, it might be easier, and much faster, for her to purchase her own while playing the waiting game of getting back whatever she is still legally allowed to have returned to her.

Well there are a lot of moving parts, but the guns were worth a lot of money. She will have very limited income, and they are concerned about selling them to help with expenses. There was also one gun that her father gave her that was very sentimental to her. Her father actually made shotguns before he died. Lastly she has no family down here. So this is about cleaning up his estate and get everything sold so that she can move back to WA.

I am not concerned with the guns. I am concerned about helping her get her affiars in order to get her moved to where family can help The AR-15's are probably worth about 4k.......

Thanks for the info, i'll let her know that the AR's are probably gone.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2018, 3:15 PM
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Any firearms deemed to be an AW is gone for ever! I have a client that went through the same situation and the guns ended up getting destroyed. They would not even release them to someone with a Dangerous Weapons Permit.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend and my condolences go out to his family as well


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  #6  
Old 11-09-2018, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
His wife heard the shot, ran to the backyard saw his body and called 911. When the police came his wife was hysterical, so they basically 51/50 her to the hospital.
As stated by others. Anything deemed "illegal" is likely on the way to the smelter.

Another concern is the [5150] issue. She needs to get copies of the intake and diagnostics of her visit. If the medical professionals/not the cops. Determined her to be "5150" danger to herself or others. She cannot get the firearms back.

Sorry for the loss of friend and the mess he left his wife to deal with.
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Old 11-09-2018, 5:01 PM
Steve G Steve G is offline
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If she was 5150’d as you say, she’s not getting any guns no matter what
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2018, 7:23 AM
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It is absolutely despicable, mean spirited and unethical that the police confiscate her guns and not return them without any sort of compensation. It is typical of a police state to do things like this. It is time to leave California. If they paid her market value for the guns they confiscated they would make the gun control issue in California a lot more reasonable.

Last edited by ptalar; 11-10-2018 at 7:26 AM..
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2018, 9:16 AM
Gundiver Gundiver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandimus View Post
Well there are a lot of moving parts, but the guns were worth a lot of money. She will have very limited income, and they are concerned about selling them to help with expenses. There was also one gun that her father gave her that was very sentimental to her. Her father actually made shotguns before he died. Lastly she has no family down here. So this is about cleaning up his estate and get everything sold so that she can move back to WA.

I am not concerned with the guns. I am concerned about helping her get her affiars in order to get her moved
Have her beg for the uppers citing financial emergency
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptalar View Post
It is absolutely despicable, mean spirited and unethical that the police confiscate her guns and not return them without any sort of compensation. It is typical of a police state to do things like this. It is time to leave California. If they paid her market value for the guns they confiscated they would make the gun control issue in California a lot more reasonable.
According to the OP the AR's were never registered as assault weapons, (Yes it's a stupid law, but however it is the law) and he estimate's their value at $4k. Do you honestly think that anyone should be compensated when something of value that is illegal to possess is confiscated?

She probably will be able to take possession of, or arrange for the sale of anything that is legal. Yes it may cost her a bit up front, but that's the process and the law. Don't blame LE for following the law.
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  #11  
Old 11-10-2018, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
According to the OP the AR's were never registered as assault weapons, (Yes it's a stupid law, but however it is the law) and he estimate's their value at $4k. Do you honestly think that anyone should be compensated when something of value that is illegal to possess is confiscated?

She probably will be able to take possession of, or arrange for the sale of anything that is legal. Yes it may cost her a bit up front, but that's the process and the law. Don't blame LE for following the law.
The state is intentionally making all these laws to make the guns illegal and the laws are getting confusing. He bought the guns when it was legal to do so. The laws are getting cavalier and subject to the whims of the politicians. Here today, gone tomorrow. You know better than that on what is going on. His widow is the one getting screwed. Husband dead, a 5150 and the guns taken away that she could of sold out of state.

Last edited by ptalar; 11-10-2018 at 1:37 PM..
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2018, 1:25 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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80% likely history.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2018, 1:48 PM
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A couple of quick thoughts here:

1) If the wife was actually treated under WIC 5150, it likely have occurred under the "Gravely Disabled" clause of WIC 5150. That's an important distinction because "Gravely Disabled" 5150's do not result in a firearms prohibition.

2) Check out the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Henderson v U.S.. That case held that a prohibited person has a right to sell their firearms as an alternative to surrender. The court did not address the status of illegally possessed firearms. The context of the decision suggests that they're not covered.
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Old 11-10-2018, 2:57 PM
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Lawyer up. And when the municipality loses, make THEM pay.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2018, 3:24 PM
ptalar ptalar is offline
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
Lawyer up. And when the municipality loses, make THEM pay.
That's the problem. It takes a lot of money to lawyer up with no guarantee of a win. The politicians know this. That is why most don't fight it. In the United States only money provides justice. Look at OJ Simpson. If it was anybody else they would be in jail. Money talks in the legal system.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:41 AM
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Suicide is a crime. The impliments are confiscated just like they are after any crime. If you don't want to lose your guns don't commit crimes.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:01 AM
ptalar ptalar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Suicide is a crime. The impliments are confiscated just like they are after any crime. If you don't want to lose your guns don't commit crimes.
He should of prepared before the suicide by moving them somewhere else. He probably had a terminal illness and poor medical insurance. That usually drives someone to suicide.
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:40 PM
G. Freeman G. Freeman is offline
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Hello Guys, so did cops take the gun because of the suicide or because she was 5150'd?
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2018, 3:10 PM
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My condolences for your friend, tragic.

As RickD427 indicated, she may have a right to at least sell the firearms, regardless of whether she is a prohibited person now, which appears all she is concerned about. Hopefully, she can work with the seizing agency to allow her to agree to have the firearms relinquished to an FFL who is either willing to purchase the firearms or process a private party transfer of them. Doing so could avoid some of the costs she might otherwise incur to have the firearms returned.

Unfortunately, in my experience, she will likely run into roadblocks from the seizing agency that will call for a lawyer to get involved, eating up all the money she was hoping to get from the firearms.

She should at least start the conversation with the agency about whether having them sold is even an option. If she runs into roadblocks, she should reach out to a lawyer familiar with firearm seizure and return laws to explain what her options are and whether it makes financial sense to pursue the matter.

The "assault weapons" might (and probably will) be a problem. But that is also something to ask a knowledgable lawyer once the agency resists.

NOTE: there are deadlines by which people must act to seek return of their firearms, or they will be considered abandoned and will be destroyed or otherwise used.

Hope it works out.

Last edited by sbrady@Michel&Associates; 11-12-2018 at 3:12 PM..
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2018, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrady@Michel&Associates View Post
My condolences for your friend, tragic.

As RickD427 indicated, ..

..Hope it works out.
Sean, Thank you for your valuable information! I too hope it works out for her.

The 51/50 statute was intended to allow a non-medical professional (LEO) to hold a person that may be a danger to themselves or others for medical professionals to evaluate. It is unfortunate that the politicians of our (badly tarnished) Golden State have chosen to make it a sentence of mental deficiency handed down by someone who is not qualified to make that determination.
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  #21  
Old 11-13-2018, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptalar View Post
He should of prepared before the suicide by moving them somewhere else. He probably had a terminal illness and poor medical insurance. That usually drives someone to suicide.
Do you think that the fate of his guns after his demise was even on his mind?
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Old 11-13-2018, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairfaxjim View Post
Sean, Thank you for your valuable information! I too hope it works out for her.

The 51/50 statute was intended to allow a non-medical professional (LEO) to hold a person that may be a danger to themselves or others for medical professionals to evaluate. It is unfortunate that the politicians of our (badly tarnished) Golden State have chosen to make it a sentence of mental deficiency handed down by someone who is not qualified to make that determination.
Please keep in mind that WIC 5150 (there is no slash mark) only permits the "non-medical professional (LEO)" to involuntarily transport the subject to a medical facility for evaluation by a medical professional. The actions of the LEO do not trigger a firearms disability.

If the evaluation by the medical professional determines that the person does not meet treatment criteria, then there is no admission, and no firearms disability.

The firearms disability is only triggered when the subject is both: 1) Evaluated by the professional. and 2) Admitted to the facility. Please refer to WIC 8193(f)(1).

There is no action that the LEO alone can take that would produce a firearms disability.
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  #23  
Old 11-13-2018, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Do you think that the fate of his guns after his demise was even on his mind?
Probably not. He definitely did not think it through on how his wife would be impacted.
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2018, 11:56 AM
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See what RickD and sbrady posted and determine if there was a 5150 or any kind of action that might disqualify the wife from possessing firearms. Was this LA Sheriff? If not it might help to know the agency involved and the position it has taken in regard to releasing the guns to the wife or allowing her to sell or transfer them to another. They may take different stances as to the handguns, the AR15s and the Garand.
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