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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #241  
Old 10-29-2018, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
This is the OP. Thanks for all the replies, folks. I read most of them, including reading the linked articles and watching the linked videos. The intense discussion of shotgun loads was a bit out of my area of interest, but that's okay. It sounds to me like quite a few people think a lever action gun is a fairly reasonable choice for a home defense gun, though many prefer a shotgun or a semi-auto rifle. I'm still considering either a lever carbine or the Mini 14. I just can't seem to get interested in shotguns, even though they are top choice home defense guns. And I don't see myself becoming interested in featureless ARs, either.

I like guns with wooden, hunting style stocks, generally. Here is a video about some prototype "tactical" Henry rifles that some of you may not have seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdHgXw2leOc
I agree with you in liking more traditional style weapons. I have plenty of "black rifles" but I am finding more and more that they are sitting in the safe and other more traditional pieces are coming out to play.

In my bedroom I have two long guns and three handguns. The handguns are the three that are on my CCW. One long gun is a Remington 870 12ga with a 19" barrel and a light mounted on it. (I will not fuel the fire by talking about what I keep it loaded with) My second long gun is a 100 year old Marlin 1893 saddle ring carbine in .30-30. I live in the country and it is conceivable that I may have a situation where I want something other than a shotgun. I used to keep an AR or an AK in my room but rotated it out after the new AW ban. Another thing I like about the old lever action... now lawyer is going to be able to use an evil assault weapon argument against a lever gun with traditional soft point bullets in it.
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  #242  
Old 10-29-2018, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
My co worker's wife shot and killed an intruder entering her bedroom with pre 64 model 94 30 30. It traumatized her so much she rejected guns in the house afterwards. Go figure.
Touching off a 30-30 in a bedroom would traumatize one's hearing!
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  #243  
Old 10-29-2018, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Touching off a 30-30 in a bedroom would traumatize one's hearing!
Probably did but under the circumstances it was the least of her worries. Home defense lever action.. viable. She never wanted any more guns in the house even though a lever action saved her life.
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  #244  
Old 10-29-2018, 8:18 PM
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I doubt that anyone who saw a lever gun pointed at them would react less seriously than any other weapon, hopefully they yelp and run away. Even better is for nothing to ever happen. Lastly, having to shoot someone, if your practiced and comfortable with a weapon and have subconscious competence that’s what you’d want to be using so as not to lose the fight. A model 94 30-30 is high on the list because so many are comfortable with them.
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  #245  
Old 10-29-2018, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
OP
Any gun is better than no gun and a lever will serve you well.
Yep. A whole lot of homes were defended for a whole lot of years with lever guns and single action revolvers. If it's what you like and are comfortable with, it'll do just fine.

Plus, if you change your mind later, good excuse to buy another.
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  #246  
Old 10-30-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
Probably did but under the circumstances it was the least of her worries. Home defense lever action.. viable. She never wanted any more guns in the house even though a lever action saved her life.
Taking a life is a hell of a thing, even if the life was of one prepared to do her harm.
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  #247  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:35 AM
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I have quite a few Lever Guns, but it would not be my first choice to grab out of the pile if I needed to. But will do the job well I am sure as long as you do your part well.

As far as "feeling bad" like the Lady did. No way in hell am I going to "feel" bad taking out a dirtbag intent of harming, robbing or killing me or my Family.

Now, I would not like it so well if I did not do my job well, and the scumbag lived to try again somewhere else. If he survived and did it later to someone else, then I would "feel" bad for failing to take his life...
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  #248  
Old 10-30-2018, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
...

As far as "feeling bad" like the Lady did. No way in hell am I going to "feel" bad taking out a dirtbag intent of harming, robbing or killing me or my Family.

Now, I would not like it so well if I did not do my job well, and the scumbag lived to try again somewhere else. If he survived and did it later to someone else, then I would "feel" bad for failing to take his life...
Have you ever taken a life? If not then you have no idea how you would feel about it.

Taking it a step further, attitude portrayed in the second part of your statement (and portrayed by many here) is a little disturbing. It is not our job to be executioner. Our job is to protect our lives and the lives of those in our care. If that means taking a life then so be it but that should never be the goal. The only goal should be to stopping the threat. Otherwise standard protocol should be to put a cleanup shot in the head of anyone you shoot when they are laying on the ground... that is not a place I want to go.
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  #249  
Old 10-31-2018, 2:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGER295
Have you ever taken a life? If not then you have no idea how you would feel about it.
Yes, I was eleven. It was a Wednesday night, I’d just gotten home from Little League Football practice and my family was still at church. He was a 19 yr old heroin addict and was shot with an unsporterized military surplus Lee Enfield .303.

It affected me deeply, my mother said I didn’t start coming out of my shell until I was in my early twenties. I’m 59 now. I’ve had nightmares continually since that evening. Circumstances change somewhat but the final act of the dream is always the same, my life is threatened, I pull the trigger and the gun doesn’t fire. I’ve had horrible insomnia since 1970. What many don’t think about is the unwanted attention you receive from people that think it’s cool and ask you to relive the experience over and over. If you pulled the trigger it isn’t cool.

It’s impossible for me to define or explain my feelings. It isn’t guilt, I know it was justified, but the feeling is not good. Sunday night fairly late I was walking out of a restaurant and saw three guys beating up another guy. It brought the night in 1970 back and I was terrorized for a few minutes. Every time I see violence or sense the threat of violence this happens. It hasn’t happened often but when it has I need to be by myself for a while. The VERY few times I’ve felt physically threatened since the incident my reaction was violent and I’ve been told breathtakingly fast. In some circumstances that’s good, others not so good.

So for those who haven’t had the experience, I agree there is no way of knowing what you will feel if it does happen, and you definitely won’t feel good if it does.

On the subject at hand I didn’t own a handgun until 11 years ago and bought one strictly to carry in my vehicle. I’ve since bought one for my house. It’s there if I need it but I feel more comfortable with a shotgun. I do have a 30-30 and believe lever guns are totally fine for HD. If that’s all I had or felt comfortable with I wouldn’t feel at a disadvantage.
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Last edited by Horrendo Revolver; 11-10-2018 at 8:55 AM..
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  #250  
Old 10-31-2018, 8:05 AM
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Horrendo, thanks for sharing. I think you put a realistic touch on the subject.
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  #251  
Old 11-02-2018, 7:50 AM
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Indeed, thanks for that Horrendo! Our conscious mind can KNOW one thing, yet our unconscious experiences an other. And there’s nothing one can do about it. Reality check for sure
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  #252  
Old 11-02-2018, 6:56 PM
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Thanks for sharing, Horrendo.
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  #253  
Old 11-06-2018, 8:19 AM
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Ranger 295 and Horrendo, thank you for your thoughtful responses. It is important to remember the mindset that we should be ready to act, but hope to never have to. And if we do, it is not a happy thing.

I really appreciated that emphasis at the Front Sight training I attended, and it continues in their videos and emails, that they are helping you prepare for something that you hope never happens, not training people to be trigger happy yahoos.
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  #254  
Old 11-09-2018, 1:01 AM
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How does one become a trigger happy yahoo?
Are there lots of uninvited guests rummaging around your house?
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  #255  
Old 11-09-2018, 1:41 AM
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Yes

I have a Marlin 1894 CB 16" bbl .45 Colt

It's loaded with 300 gr lead long flat nose bullets
http://www.littlestonesrus.com/45-Co...50_p_2138.html

Last edited by BABUSA; 11-09-2018 at 1:59 AM..
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  #256  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
How does one become a trigger happy yahoo?
Are there lots of uninvited guests rummaging around your house?
Haha. I guess I got off the topic a bit in my mind, thanks for noticing my mistake - that was more in reference to being put in public, and always trying to deescalate and leave a situation without violence first, and having use of force as a last resort.

If an intruder is in your home, that is a different situation.
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  #257  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:12 AM
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This thread started out as a home defense thread and quickly turned into a FBI SWAT team military needs thread.
Nothing unusual about that on CalGuns.
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  #258  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
SERIOUSLY,


It's a lot easier to patch a few pistol or rifle holes in the wall then to repair the damage done by that 12 gauge, especially if you are rocking defense loads.

Only reason I could ever understand for using a 12 gauge for SD is for someone who for whatever reason can't aim.

If a bad guy has a gun or knife to my family member throat, please don't come to the fight only armed with a shotgun.
I keep slugs in my sidesaddle. If the job called for 1 really big hole instead of 9 smaller ones, I could rack the 00-buck shell out of the chamber and toss in a slug. Or just fuggetaboutit and grab my pistol or AR instead.

Back on point to the OP, no I wouldn't use a lever rifle for HD, unless it was the only thing I had. Semiauto is really the only thing I personally have assigned for HD duty, I want to be able to pull the trigger as many times as I need to, as fast as I can, until the threat is over, without having to fumble with anything between shots. What if I need to keep a hand free for something? Even my shotgun is semiauto, for this reason. "2 to the chest and 1 to the head" with 12ga 00-buck shells should stop the bad guy pretty quick. Might have some serious drywall patching to do afterwards though. I worry that if my gun was a manually-operated action, I might only get one shot and it might not stop the guy.

Last edited by cockedandglocked; 11-09-2018 at 11:59 AM..
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  #259  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:57 AM
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Did you mention they don't make good benchrest guns?
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  #260  
Old 11-09-2018, 2:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
This thread started out as a home defense thread and quickly turned into a FBI SWAT team military needs thread.
Nothing unusual about that on CalGuns.
You and your silly shotgun advice is what derailed it. Grade A trolling.
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  #261  
Old 11-09-2018, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
This thread started out as a home defense thread and quickly turned into a FBI SWAT team military needs thread.
Nothing unusual about that on CalGuns.
No. This thread started as LEVER ACTION as primary HD gun. It was doing quite well until your retarded bird shot for HD post.
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  #262  
Old 11-09-2018, 4:58 PM
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Coming from two guys who most likely don't own any guns and have no experience at all I expect your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Now I will guess your ages as 15 and 17?
Shotgun is the perfect home defense gun your just too young and ignorant to know that but as you age you will hopefully become smarter. Fingers crossed for both of you. And yes I have read your previous posts just to check your knowledge base.
You are embarrassing your parents!!!
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  #263  
Old 11-09-2018, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MyOdessa View Post
No. This thread started as LEVER ACTION as primary HD gun. It was doing quite well until your retarded bird shot for HD post.
He wasn't the first to talk shotguns in this thread or things other than lever actions, but he is right about it being home defense and not swat commando needs thread.
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  #264  
Old 11-09-2018, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
He wasn't the first to talk shotguns in this thread or things other than lever actions, but he is right about it being home defense and not swat commando needs thread.
The criteria wasn't that he was the first, but rather about the specific quality of certain posts, like..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
The reason I say that is some here might have military experience far more vast than yours. They might have been issued a trench gun and they might have been issued birdshot to go with it. Trench warfare is generally at longer distances than home defense but of course your hundreds of experts witnesses already told you that right?
hqdefault.jpg

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  #265  
Old 11-09-2018, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
The criteria wasn't that he was the first, but rather about the specific quality of certain posts, like..


-- Michael
I took that as sarcasm. As in military experience means about as much to HD as trap shooting does unless you used birdshot while in the military. That is probably why he went on to explain trench warfare is fought at longer distances than HD distances.
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  #266  
Old 11-09-2018, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
I took that as sarcasm. As in military experience means about as much to HD as trap shooting does unless you used birdshot while in the military. That is probably why he went on to explain trench warfare is fought at longer distances than HD distances.
I took it as weasel words, since Lynn had prior tried to assert his awesomeness as a clay shooter, but actually appears to have had no actual experience in shooting for blood.

-- Michael
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  #267  
Old 11-09-2018, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
I took it as weasel words, since Lynn had prior tried to assert his awesomeness as a clay shooter, but actually appears to have had no actual experience in shooting for blood.

-- Michael
The experience I seen was a picture of being shot at greater than HD distance.

Unless while in the military you shot someone or were shot with birdshot, how does that give you greater experience than clay shooter who has been shot with birdshot?
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  #268  
Old 11-09-2018, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
The experience I seen was a picture of being shot at greater than HD distance.

Unless while in the military you shot someone or were shot with birdshot, how does that give you greater experience than clay shooter who has been shot?
? That's a fun one to unpack.

Does the military use birdshot in shotguns for antipersonnel? If not...

Does being a clay shooter make one an expert on shotguns in HD or combat? If not...

Does being accidentally shot with birdshot make one an expert on shotguns in HD or combat? If not...

-- Michael
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  #269  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
? That's a fun one to unpack.

Does the military use birdshot in shotguns for antipersonnel? If not...

Does being a clay shooter make one an expert on shotguns in HD or combat? If not...

Does being accidentally shot with birdshot make one an expert on shotguns in HD or combat? If not...

-- Michael
Military doesn't use birdshot and the response to sarcastic post proved it.

Being in the military with combat duty or a clay shooter with lots of trophies doesn't make you an expert on birdshot for HD. Being accidently shot with birdshot doesn't make you an expert, but it does give you more experience than either even if you have been neither.

Bragging about military experience means about as much as bragging about clay shooting trophies in use of birdshot for HD.
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  #270  
Old 11-09-2018, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Coming from two guys who most likely don't own any guns and have no experience at all I expect your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Now I will guess your ages as 15 and 17?
Shotgun is the perfect home defense gun your just too young and ignorant to know that but as you age you will hopefully become smarter. Fingers crossed for both of you. And yes I have read your previous posts just to check your knowledge base.
You are embarrassing your parents!!!
I don't know, I would guess I own more then an average postman being paranoid about his supervisor spying on him.
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  #271  
Old 11-09-2018, 7:31 PM
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I have a few loaded rifles and shotguns around my house. From a pump shotgun to a beneli semi auto shotgun to a Ruger mini 30 and a a Henry lever action .357. Because of the way that my house is set up it may not be possible to get to my preferred gun. The best gun to use is the gun you have available
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  #272  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:02 PM
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And Michaels posts prove he knows nothing about the use of shotguns even when shown a video showing how affective they actually are.
He seems real dissapointed that he doesn't have any trap experience when trap experience doesn't relate to the topic. I guess when he questioned my experience with shotguns and I responded he couldn't handle it.
And despite what he thinks the military used model 12 Winchesters.
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  #273  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:05 PM
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MyOdessa
So would that mean you own any guns or are you just being funny?
I ask because I had more barrels put on in 2018 than most calgunners have guns.
I am guessing your garbage can and recycling bin have never seen this many empties?
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  #274  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:17 PM
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I wasn't going to post on this thread any longer, but, some of you are beyond hope here. Only one or maybe two, but, hopeless. This thread that started off so honest and simple has gone totally off reason. Why don't some of you expert's re-read the OP's first post. Sit back, THINK for a minute[if possible], and reboot. Friggin' unreal what happened here.
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Old 11-09-2018, 8:30 PM
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Pennstater
Some of the experts read his original post which compared lever actions to pump shotguns and responded with real world answers.
BUT
You are on CalGuns where alot of the EXPERTS talk home defense by quoting what they saw Mark Wahlberg do in a movie or what the navy uses 16 inch guns on.
Luckily we have a dozen posters who regularly post the truth so all the myths don't ruin the website.
Post about headspace and you'll die laughing at all the crazy responses.
And yes the OP asked about shotguns before I responded but as you may have read that already you will have to explain it to those that can't read.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 11-09-2018 at 8:33 PM..
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  #276  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:47 PM
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pennstater pennstater is offline
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LynnJr, Ok. Op asked about HD possibly using a lever rifle. FIRST. Please, stay on topic here. Shotguns came later. Op asked about lever guns. This was the topic at hand. Get over the shotgun, AR, and whatever, it was a very simple question regarding lever rifles. Nothing more, nothing less. Answer THAT question and let everything else alone. Start your own expert opinions on what may be needed in such an event.
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  #277  
Old 11-09-2018, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
Does anyone rely on a lever action rifle as their primary home defense gun? It seems to me that a lever action rifle like the Henry Big Boy Carbine in .357 magnum would be roughly similar in power and speed to a pump action shotgun, but would be shorter in length and have less recoil.

Or I could get a Ruger Mini 14. I'm reading that the newer versions of the Mini 14 are plenty accurate for shorter ranges and are reliable. Currently I have only 9mm pistols but I want to buy a long gun soon.

Thanks for any advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
LynnJr, Ok. Op asked about HD possibly using a lever rifle. FIRST. Please, stay on topic here. Shotguns came later. Op asked about lever guns. This was the topic at hand. Get over the shotgun, AR, and whatever, it was a very simple question regarding lever rifles. Nothing more, nothing less. Answer THAT question and let everything else alone. Start your own expert opinions on what may be needed in such an event.
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Old 11-09-2018, 9:05 PM
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Sad that we eat our own.
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  #279  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:08 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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Pennstater
As I suspected you didn't read his question did you?
Anytime I see a webhandle I know what to expect.

TMB1
Your pointing out the obvious but they don't understand it because they didn't read the question.
If you notice I only post in a very limited number of the forums here but read most of them.
You won't find me posting on the pistol forum because I own less than 10 pistols.
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  #280  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:18 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucky View Post
Sad that we eat our own.

We are not eating our own we are trying to educate them and it becomes more difficult when the trolls start posting.
We had one poster get upset that I mentioned a shotgun only to find out the OP compared it to a lever gun.
The OP has been spot on through all of this.

OP
You posted you didn't understand why birdshot works so well. At home defense distances it doesn't spread out that much and weighs twice what a pistol round weighs. It does a great deal of damage while not killing your neighbors nextdoor. They are easy to aim and shoot in the dark and have a bigger pattern than any rifle or pistol bullet Hitting the target is easier. Buckshot does the same thing as birdshot but travels to far in my humble opinion and it doesn't spread like birdshot does.
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