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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-27-2014, 5:42 PM
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Default (10/27/2014): Gun Owner Defended by CGF Not Guilty of Federal Conspiracy Charge

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/201...piracy-charge/

As always, freedom isn't free. Please consider helping us fight other cases like this one.

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October 27, 2014 (SACRAMENTO, CA) — Today, a federal jury in Sacramento found gun owner Ulysses S. Grant Early IV not guilty of conspiracy to make a false statement on a federal a firearm record known as an ATF Form 4473. The lengthy criminal trial, which lasted four weeks, successfully concluded for Early after more than two days of jury deliberations and two years of legal wrangling.

Early was represented by civil rights attorney Donald Kilmer of San Jose. The Calguns Foundation, a gun rights group based in Roseville, provided resources and support for his legal defense...
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2014, 5:47 PM
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Someone earned their beer that day, well done gentlemen.
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2014, 5:54 PM
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I like how the LEO in that case was described as a co-conspirator but not charged. WTF???
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  #4  
Old 10-27-2014, 5:55 PM
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Another victory for the right side.
Next!
Congratulations CGF.
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2014, 5:56 PM
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Old 10-27-2014, 6:04 PM
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Terrible name! Nice win!


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  #7  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:04 PM
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Good Job!
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  #8  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:07 PM
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Four week trial? For this? What a waste of tax money!
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:10 PM
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What exactly was the problem in this case? Don't people buy off rostered handguns through ppt every day? I'm assuming some even from cops. What flagged this guy?
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by antiseen View Post
What exactly was the problem in this case? Don't people buy off rostered handguns through ppt every day? I'm assuming some even from cops. What flagged this guy?
Allegedly the cops were flipping or straw-purchasing off-roster for profit. I don't know the evidence, though, nor do I understand how the buyer could possibly be responsible for that.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...le2613327.html

Last edited by Tovarish; 10-27-2014 at 6:19 PM..
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by antiseen View Post
What exactly was the problem in this case? Don't people buy off rostered handguns through ppt every day? I'm assuming some even from cops. What flagged this guy?
^This? Also, I assume the cop was considered the co -conspirator. Was he also charged by the USAO?
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tovarish View Post
Allegedly the cops were flipping or straw-purchasing off-roster for profit. I don't know the evidence, though, nor do I understand how the buyer could possibly be responsible for that.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...le2613327.html
maybe if they have some information about him requesting a particular firearm
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antiseen View Post
What exactly was the problem in this case? Don't people buy off rostered handguns through ppt every day? I'm assuming some even from cops. What flagged this guy?
this was my initial reaction too... is there more info about what exactly Mr. Early "falsified" on his 4473? sounds like there was more to it than just a LEO-exempt -> PPT?

this court case is going to gain a lot more relevance once 1 Jan 2015 hits... just sayin'
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:37 PM
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A significant win for the buyers of any gun in CA, that precedes to follow the FFL transfer transactions (dealer transfer) rules. Buyers can not be imputed to know how a gun became available for PPT.

Another foundation brick laid toward eliminating the CA "safe" gun roster.
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  #15  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antiseen View Post
What exactly was the problem in this case? Don't people buy off rostered handguns through ppt every day? I'm assuming some even from cops. What flagged this guy?
I'm guessing they marked down 'used' on the the form but the gov assumed they discussed / negotiated it being 'new' with each other during the sale?

I'm guessing; trying to figure out why this would lead to a charge.

Last edited by sl0re10; 10-27-2014 at 6:42 PM..
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
I'm guessing they marked down 'used' on the the form but the gov assumed they discussed / negotiated it being 'new' with each other during the sale?

I'm guessing; trying to figure out why this would lead to a charge.
And conspiracy is a catchall for any alleged violation of law not support by facts.
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
I'm guessing they marked down 'used' on the the form but the gov assumed they discussed / negotiated it being 'new' with each other during the sale?

I'm guessing; trying to figure out why this would lead to a charge.
That's weird. Most FFLs fill out the details about the gun themselves.
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2014, 6:53 PM
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AB1964 notwithstanding, this case really is important in the context that as the transferee in a PPT transaction... I'd honestly have no idea (nor care) if the person selling the gun obtained it via LEO-exemption, familial transfer, or whatever...

I'm really curious to find out what exactly are the details of the "falsified" 4473 in this case. Even if the seller takes a profit, as is one's right in any "private" sale, that isn't grounds for a conspiracy charge.

There isn't a whole lot to protect the buyer here if you can be accused of conspiracy just because a handgun you purchase via PPT is off-roster...
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2014, 7:30 PM
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Thanks, CGF. Count on another contribution from me this year.
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2014, 7:33 PM
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Calguns is based in Roseville?
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  #21  
Old 10-27-2014, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRiverArms View Post
I like how the LEO in that case was described as a co-conspirator but not charged. WTF???
The infamous "unindicted co-conspirator".
One can only wonder why he was not charged in this case...
otoh one might wonder why there was any case at all.

And I should add Congrats on the win to Mr. Kilmer and CGF

Last edited by Sputnik; 10-27-2014 at 10:07 PM.. Reason: congrats added
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2014, 8:47 PM
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Great victory CGF. Popping people who can lawfully poses a firearm like this case is simply an intimidation and control tactic of the gun grabbers.
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2014, 8:55 PM
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A win is great, but I am upset with the jury taking so long to decide a no-brainer.

I would prefer a 1 hour decision that included 30 minutes to write a strongly worded statement about government overreach and prosecutorial misconduct.
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2014, 8:56 PM
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so what went wrong here? my brother in law which is a Deputy for LA county will sell me his LCP .308. Its too small for him and he made me an offer that is to good to pass up. Know after reading this I'm thinking twice. I thought that if we go through the proper channels all is good to go...not so sure now..
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Old 10-27-2014, 9:39 PM
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So good to hear! Saw this on another source and had to pop in to say congrats. CalGuns is doing great things for the entire country, not just California.
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  #26  
Old 10-27-2014, 9:40 PM
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Congratulations to all involved.
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  #27  
Old 10-27-2014, 9:51 PM
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Lets see if the bee runs an update. Scumbags that newspaper writers are. Yes. Big time.
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Old 10-27-2014, 10:26 PM
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Yet they still don't prosecute people that falsify 4473 when they are prohibited, etc.
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  #29  
Old 10-27-2014, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roost812 View Post
so what went wrong here? my brother in law which is a Deputy for LA county will sell me his LCP .308. Its too small for him and he made me an offer that is to good to pass up. Know after reading this I'm thinking twice. I thought that if we go through the proper channels all is good to go...not so sure now..
The recoil/muzzle blast on that sucker has gotta make it hard for follow up shots. Probably why he's getting rid of it
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:36 PM
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I can't believe the government spends money and resources to bring cases like this to trial.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:39 PM
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I can't believe the government spends money and resources to bring cases like this to trial.
At one point in time I would have trouble believing it also, but not nowadays.
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Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 10-28-2014 at 2:08 AM..
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  #32  
Old 10-28-2014, 12:58 AM
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Thanks to CalGuns Foundation and the efforts of attorney Donald Kilmer,
This family averted a completely unnecessary, ridiculous, and unconstitutional
conviction that could have impacted their lives For Nothing.

Ulysses S. Grant Early IV and Family:


Kudos Gentlemen...


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  #33  
Old 10-28-2014, 2:00 AM
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Nice CGF congrats


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  #34  
Old 10-28-2014, 2:07 AM
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Yet they still don't prosecute people that falsify 4473 when they are prohibited, etc.
Targeting actual criminals is so passé. Its far more interesting to prosecute the innocent.
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  #35  
Old 10-28-2014, 5:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roost812 View Post
so what went wrong here? my brother in law which is a Deputy for LA county will sell me his LCP .308. Its too small for him and he made me an offer that is to good to pass up. Know after reading this I'm thinking twice. I thought that if we go through the proper channels all is good to go...not so sure now..
OMG, an LCP in 308? Wouldn't the round be longer than the barrel? A micro gun shooting a rifle round sounds awesome, but slightly painful to shoot. I want me one of those.
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  #36  
Old 10-28-2014, 6:00 AM
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I'm a bit puzzled why the original buyer wasn't charged with the same thing. In Abramski, the original purchaser (the strawman) was the one arrested and charged. Cases like this bring into question any PPT performed legally. Ridiculous prosecution that completely goes against the intent of the laws.
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  #37  
Old 10-28-2014, 6:11 AM
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  #38  
Old 10-28-2014, 6:28 AM
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It is ridiculous that a case that seems very simple would take 4 weeks. Reading through the brief article it is a "well Duh" for anyone familiar with California gun laws.
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Old 10-28-2014, 6:43 AM
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awesome work.
another donation is on the way today...
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Old 10-28-2014, 6:50 AM
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GREAT JOB CALGUNS!


DONATE !
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