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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-06-2013, 8:35 PM
Dead*Reckoned Dead*Reckoned is offline
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Default 3d printing handgun frame question

Would I run into any legal problems 3d printing a semi auto pistol frame?

I've been brainstorming any legal problems, and if I'm right this will be the first 3d printed, centerfire semi-auto, mag fed pistol out there. Plastic*

I'm good on the zip gun regulation, because its an established design.

I'm pretty sure I'm good on Undetectable firearms act, because while the frame is completely plastic, the UFA has it's own definition of firearm which states the whole working gun. Similar to 80% polymer lowers.

I'm good on NFA, and Cali AWB laws, it will have a bullet button or just some sort of fixed mag, and 922r doesn't apply because its a pistol.

Can anyone find any other problems they foresee?

Last edited by Dead*Reckoned; 12-08-2013 at 3:53 PM..
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2013, 9:04 PM
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The handgun will need to be made so that it comply's with CA's "undetectable firearm" laws and "unsafe handgun" laws.

Therefore, it needs to be dense enough to show up on a metal detector and be a dismensionally compliant single-shot pistol.


Penal Code 24610
Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any undetectable firearm is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

Penal Code 17280
As used in this part, "undetectable firearm" means any weapon that meets either of the following requirements:
(a) After removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, the weapon is not as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by a walk-through metal detector calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar.
(b) Any major component of the weapon, as defined in Section 922 of Title 18 of the United States Code, when subjected to inspection by the types of X-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.

Penal Code 32000
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Penal Code 32100
(b) Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10½ inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
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Last edited by Quiet; 12-06-2013 at 9:07 PM..
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2013, 9:15 PM
Dead*Reckoned Dead*Reckoned is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The handgun will need to be made so that it comply's with CA's "undetectable firearm" laws and "unsafe handgun" laws.

Therefore, it needs to be dense enough to show up on a metal detector and be a dismensionally compliant single-shot pistol.


Penal Code 24610
Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any undetectable firearm is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

Penal Code 17280
As used in this part, "undetectable firearm" means any weapon that meets either of the following requirements:
(a) After removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, the weapon is not as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by a walk-through metal detector calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar.
(b) Any major component of the weapon, as defined in Section 922 of Title 18 of the United States Code, when subjected to inspection by the types of X-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.

Penal Code 32000
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Penal Code 32100
(b) Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10½ inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
Awesome, thanks. I totally forgot about the unsafe handgun requirements. I'll have to double check barrel length. (and get it done before the new year)

So for CA's undetectable firearm's act it has to pass both A and B correct? It will pass A easily, the upper receiver and bolt would trip any metal detector, but B I'm not sure about, I may have to look into sprinkle coating some sort of powder or possibly painting it with lead based paint.

I really appreciate your help!
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Old 12-06-2013, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead*Reckoned View Post
So for CA's undetectable firearm's act it has to pass both A and B correct?
Yes, needs to pass both.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead*Reckoned View Post
... if I'm right this will be the first 3d printed, centerfire semi-auto, mag fed pistol out there....
Somebody's already made a 1911 3D printed metal pistol.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/08/tech/i...ted-metal-gun/
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Old 12-08-2013, 3:53 PM
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Edited OP to reflect that^ lol
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Old 12-09-2013, 7:12 AM
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If you have your own machine, you are good to go.

If, however, you send a file to a service bureau and they make a frame to sell you, they will be engaging in the unlicensed manufacturing and sale of a firearm; and you will be transferring a firearm without an FFL.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:50 AM
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Putting the legal discussion to the side ...... you can not make a all plastic pistol frame without metal inserts in key areas to prevent too much flexing or cracking and failure.

While 3D plastic printing is making everyone go ga ga you have to understand the physics behind how firearms operate.

There is not one single major manufacturer of firearms that uses plastic pistol frames that do not have metal inserts in them, that should tell you something.

If you are looking for something that will shoot a few dozen times then making a all plastic frame would be ok.
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2013, 10:49 PM
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a university's students have make metal 3d printing by using mig welder. Therefore, the day we can print our metal gun frame or receiver is not far away!
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Old 12-11-2013, 6:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Post 88 View Post
a university's students have make metal 3d printing by using mig welder. Therefore, the day we can print our metal gun frame or receiver is not far away!
We're already there. Welcome to the future.

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Old 12-11-2013, 7:54 PM
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I mean cheap. The one in video is printed by a industrial 3d printer that worth more than $100,000.00

The one I talk about is just several hundred dollar only. BP will have a new meaning too.
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Old 12-11-2013, 8:08 PM
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You know a tec 22 frame or a tec9 frame should be simple enough you could turn one out on a maker not... just need a scan of the original
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Old 12-12-2013, 6:37 AM
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BATFE 3D Printing of Firearms (11-23-2013)

In addition...
BATFE has been making & testing 3D printed firearms using commonly available printers & thermoplastics (inexpensive {less than $10,000} non-industrial printers & materials). All of the ones made from low grade thermoplastics have self-destructed after being shot 1-2 times. The ones made using Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS) plastic survived to 8 shots before testing was concluded.
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Last edited by Quiet; 12-12-2013 at 6:47 AM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 5:14 PM
Dead*Reckoned Dead*Reckoned is offline
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I already made the 3d model, I will print sometime soon then post a video of me shooting it when I find out a way to make the receiver show up under an X-ray. Anyone have any ideas? I can't open the printer during printing, it's a sealed heated chamber stratasys.

Last edited by Dead*Reckoned; 12-14-2013 at 5:16 PM..
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  #15  
Old 12-14-2013, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
You know a tec 22 frame or a tec9 frame should be simple enough you could turn one out on a maker not... just need a scan of the original
You are so close...

.32 acp... Any guesses as to what model?
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  #16  
Old 12-14-2013, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Post 88 View Post
I mean cheap. The one in video is printed by a industrial 3d printer that worth more than $100,000.00

The one I talk about is just several hundred dollar only. BP will have a new meaning too.
Some nice college kids made a metal printer for $1500 bucks.

They posted the plans on the internet.

Google it
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Old 12-14-2013, 9:48 PM
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Last edited by Oliver_Charles; 12-15-2013 at 2:12 PM..
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