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  #1  
Old 10-07-2011, 2:30 AM
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Default M1A California?

What's the deal with the Springfield "California" model M1A? Supposedly it has a different flash hider/muzzle brake that doesn't violate CA law. That would imply the standard brake isn't CA legal, but I don't see how that could be true.

I was thinking about picking up an M1A scout and sticking an acog on top. Other than the ridiculous price, any good reasons not to do this?
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Old 10-07-2011, 2:39 AM
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First: An m1a, being a centerfire magazine fed semi auto, would become in California an "Assault Weapon" if any flash hider or pistol grip stock is installed on it with the rest of the rifle as it is comes from Springfield. A "brake" is legal, and Springfield has a brake, as well as others that make them, that are fine. A flash hider and a brake are two different things, which must be confusing you.

Second: This comes up from time to time, an Acog on an M1A. Some people have tried it and removed it. On a standard stock setup, it sits much too high off the bore. Next is the problem of eye relief on a rifle with the kick this has, again not joyful. There are other options if you like Trijicon for some features, like their accupoint scope line.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2011, 2:55 AM
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I guess that's my question, is the standard muzzle device on an M1A scout considered a flash hider? I am assuming since they offer a special "California" device then the standard device is not CA compliant?

Good call on the height over the bore, I didn't think of that. Eye relief shouldn't be too bad with the 3x acog but the chin-weld would suck...
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2011, 3:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gat View Post
I guess that's my question, is the standard muzzle device on an M1A scout considered a flash hider? I am assuming since they offer a special "California" device then the standard device is not CA compliant?

Good call on the height over the bore, I didn't think of that. Eye relief shouldn't be too bad with the 3x acog but the chin-weld would suck...
If a gun manufacturer offers a "California version" you can bet your butt that the stock rifle is illegal in CA.

I have tried an ACOG, red dot, reflex, you name it on my M1A. Anything without amplification simply covered up more of my site picture than standard sights and simply got in the way. The amplification in an ACOG and 1-3 power scope just was not worth the decreased site picture either.

What I am most happy with is an ARMS mount with quick detachable scope rings, with a Nikkon 3-9x40 scope. I am able to open both eyes and get close up quick target acquisition, as well as reach out long distance. A variable scope set to 3-4x is acceptable at up-close ranges of beyond 8-10 yards. My left eye is used to help with targets closer than 8 yards. It takes a bit to train your eyes to do it, but one can easily learn it, and it works great.

When the targets push out to 300-600 yards, its a quick turn of the dial on the scope to get up to 9x... and it works great.

I use a 200 meter 0 on my M1A. This puts me at about -1.5 inches at 20 meters.... dead on at 50 meters.... +1 inch at 100 meters, dead on at 200 meters, and then -1 at 300 meters.... et cetera.

Notice that from 25-300 meters, point of impact is within 1.5 inches of point of aim. This means that shooting from the scope, you aim right for where you want to hit, and you are sure to hit within an inch or so of where you aim. No need to dial in or compensate for bullet drop.

This has worked very well for me.
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Old 10-07-2011, 3:28 AM
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Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
If a gun manufacturer offers a "California version" you can bet your butt that the stock rifle is illegal in CA.

I have tried an ACOG, red dot, reflex, you name it on my M1A. Anything without amplification simply covered up more of my site picture than standard sights and simply got in the way. The amplification in an ACOG and 1-3 power scope just was not worth the decreased site picture either.

What I am most happy with is an ARMS mount with quick detachable scope rings, with a Nikkon 3-9x40 scope. I am able to open both eyes and get close up quick target acquisition, as well as reach out long distance. A variable scope set to 3-4x is acceptable at up-close ranges of beyond 8-10 yards. My left eye is used to help with targets closer than 8 yards. It takes a bit to train your eyes to do it, but one can easily learn it, and it works great.

When the targets push out to 300-600 yards, its a quick turn of the dial on the scope to get up to 9x... and it works great.

I use a 200 meter 0 on my M1A. This puts me at about -1.5 inches at 20 meters.... dead on at 50 meters.... +1 inch at 100 meters, dead on at 200 meters, and then -1 at 300 meters.... et cetera.

Notice that from 25-300 meters, point of impact is within 1.5 inches of point of aim. This means that shooting from the scope, you aim right for where you want to hit, and you are sure to hit within an inch or so of where you aim. No need to dial in or compensate for bullet drop.

This has worked very well for me.

how "legal" is the M1A in california, by that i mean people are still being detained and charged for their AR-15 style OLL riffles even with bullet buttons.

are M1A and other "california version" riffles controversial too?

or are they slightly safer due to having a large manufacturers name on it ?
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Old 10-07-2011, 3:45 AM
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The muzzle device on the NON California rifle has slots parallel to the barrel. The California legal rifle has a muzzle device with holes. Also the california model has a "CA" after the part number, such as MA9102CA, MA9104CA, MA9106CA, etc. Bottom line is the only difference between a California compliant M1A and a non compliant one is the muzzle device. The muzzle device below is an example of the legal one.


Last edited by slopoke; 10-07-2011 at 4:13 AM..
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2011, 6:13 AM
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I believe this muzzle device is Cali-Legal

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Old 10-07-2011, 8:56 AM
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Also, new scout squads only come with muzzle brakes so there isn't a "CA" version.
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Old 10-07-2011, 9:39 AM
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Also, new scout squads only come with muzzle brakes so there isn't a "CA" version.
They are legal if they come with a muzzle brake. They are not legal if they come with a flash hider.

A muzzle brake



A Flash hider

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  #10  
Old 10-07-2011, 9:44 AM
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Thanks guys, that 100% answers my questions!
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  #11  
Old 10-07-2011, 11:32 AM
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Love my M1A Scout! I'll bet you will too!
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 951temec View Post
how "legal" is the M1A in california, by that i mean people are still being detained and charged for their AR-15 style OLL riffles even with bullet buttons.

are M1A and other "california version" riffles controversial too?

or are they slightly safer due to having a large manufacturers name on it ?
The M1A -


is not an AR-15/M-16 pattern rifle -


Since the M1A in manufacturer's configuration does not look like an Evil Black Rifle, it doesn't get a lot of attention. (But the one pictured does appear to have a 20-round magazine.)
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Old 10-07-2011, 1:22 PM
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What's the legal distinction between a flash hider and a muzzle brake?
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Old 10-07-2011, 1:33 PM
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What's the legal distinction between a flash hider and a muzzle brake?
A flash hider minimizes muzzle flash.... a muzzle brake is ported on the top as to curb muzzle climb during rapid fire.
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Old 10-07-2011, 1:38 PM
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Several words in the law! In their infinite wisdom, a FH is evil. A muzzle brake isn't. One side note...to me, the brake works. To me it is less perceived recoil. Some don't notice the difference.

For the most part, the "flash hider" or "flash suppressor" doesn't suppress much flash. Keep in mind, the "imitation" FH without the horizontal cuts (solid) is ok cause it's neither. Just makes the rifle longer and gives the front sight a place to sit.

The M1A/M14 versions are legal. They are not full auto. As long as you don't use hicap magazines not yours or obtained illegally (after 2000) you can have fun. If you have hicap mags obtained prior to 2000 you can use those as well. If you place the equivalent of a bullet button on an M14, you create more problems...don't do it.

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Old 10-07-2011, 1:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45R View Post
They are legal if they come with a muzzle brake. They are not legal if they come with a flash hider.

A muzzle brake



A Flash hider

i dont understand why would it be legal with a muzzle brake but not with a flash hider????
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Old 10-07-2011, 2:01 PM
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i dont understand why would it be legal with a muzzle brake but not with a flash hider????
It's a CA gun law.. It doesn't have to make sense. It's just the way it is.
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Old 10-07-2011, 2:02 PM
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I was always told the difference was the Brake had the same diameter opening as the barrel and the flash hider had a larger diameter openeing then the barrel
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Old 10-07-2011, 2:21 PM
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It's a CA gun law.. It doesn't have to make sense. It's just the way it is.
QFT

...don't even get me started on Standard capacity magazines for the M1A.
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Old 10-10-2011, 1:12 PM
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I was always told the difference was the Brake had the same diameter opening as the barrel and the flash hider had a larger diameter openeing then the barrel
Generally this is true. However, the "brake" that comes from Springfield has been "match conditioned", i.e., reamed out with a tapered reamer just like USAMU used to do with the flash hiders. But it was approved by BATF (and NRA for competition) back in the bad old days of the federal AWB. After all, the M14 needs a place to set the front sight and it didn't look evil and nefarious, so I guess they cut SAI some slack. CA DOJ doesn't seem to care, either.

I've used both the SAI brake and the Smith Enterprises brake (which is more conventionally configured as a true brake). I noticed no reduction in recoil with the SAI brake (which one would expect) and some reduction (and a whole lot of muzzle blast) with the Smith brake.
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Old 10-10-2011, 7:40 PM
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I believe this muzzle device is Cali-Legal

Now you're just showing off.
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Old 10-10-2011, 8:17 PM
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Some boxes from Springfield Armory say "Not legal in Ca. if purchased after Jan. 1 2000" those models have the FH on it. Just go to any Ca. gun shop the version with the legal brake will be in there.
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Old 10-10-2011, 8:50 PM
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I actually really like the brake. I think it looks nicer and it helps a good deal with recoil reduction and stability for a 7.62x51 round.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:16 PM
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i though that the muzzle brake - flash hider difference also depends on what the manufacturer calls it ?
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:36 PM
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i though that the muzzle brake - flash hider difference also depends on what the manufacturer calls it ?
No, this is not true, simply calling it something else will not change what it is. Calling a dog a honey badger will not change the fact that it's really a dog.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:43 AM
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I put the Smith direct connect brake on my Scout. I don't mind loud, I have 338 Lapuas and 300 Win Mags with brakes, a bunch of braked T/C pistols - but this thing is loud and thumps too. I like it and it works but it sure makes a heavy hitter sound & blast.
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Old 10-11-2011, 5:06 PM
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No, this is not true, simply calling it something else will not change what it is. Calling a dog a honey badger will not change the fact that it's really a dog.
I...don't...know...about...that.

I've known some dogs that were closer to "honey badgers" than they were to "dogs".

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Old 10-15-2011, 5:42 PM
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Since SA doesn't seem to offer a "CA Legal" version of the Scout, how are people getting them here? Are dealers ordering standard, FH equipped rifles then changing the muzzle device? Every Scout I've ever seen in a CA gun store looked identical to the ones on SA's website and everywhere else, but the store wanted a King's Ransom for them. What's the trick to getting a SA M1A Scout in CA?
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Old 10-15-2011, 5:49 PM
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Since SA doesn't seem to offer a "CA Legal" version of the Scout, how are people getting them here? Are dealers ordering standard, FH equipped rifles then changing the muzzle device? Every Scout I've ever seen in a CA gun store looked identical to the ones on SA's website and everywhere else, but the store wanted a King's Ransom for them. What's the trick to getting a SA M1A Scout in CA?
I'm pretty sure that the Scout Squad, SOCOM 16 and SOCOM II all come with muzzle brakes standard from Springfield. That would mean they are all California legal to begin with.
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Old 10-15-2011, 6:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumo99 View Post
Also, new scout squads only come with muzzle brakes so there isn't a "CA" version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILVSMOG View Post
Since SA doesn't seem to offer a "CA Legal" version of the Scout, how are people getting them here? Are dealers ordering standard, FH equipped rifles then changing the muzzle device? Every Scout I've ever seen in a CA gun store looked identical to the ones on SA's website and everywhere else, but the store wanted a King's Ransom for them. What's the trick to getting a SA M1A Scout in CA?
Springfield's response to an email asking why the scout model number doesn't have the CA suffix:

Quote:
Jim,

Thank you for your interest in our Scout model. The AA9122CA is not a legitimate part number, it should be AA9122 as the rifle ships with a muzzle break and is CA legal.

Have a great day!

Dawn Oleson

Range Program Coordinator/

Dealer Assistance & Response Team

Springfield, Inc.
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Old 10-15-2011, 6:28 PM
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Well, there you go then. Thanks! I suppose that would mean a CA resident could order a Scout from Bud's (or anywhere else) and be GTG once it gets here, correct?
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Old 10-15-2011, 6:30 PM
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Well, there you go then. Thanks! I suppose that would mean a CA resident could order a Scout from Bud's (or anywhere else) and be GTG once it gets here, correct?
The question was specific to that scout model number but I do believe all scouts are CA OK.
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