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  #121  
Old 10-02-2014, 6:25 PM
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Poor guy. Some people live like everyday is a new day around the fish bowl.
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  #122  
Old 10-02-2014, 7:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConvertiBee View Post
This is BS, this is the easiest way to lose everything you value... including your right to bear arms. Sure, you can do this conversion and get a gun "in", but GOD HELP YOU if there is ever ANYTHING that puts that gun on the radar! Your circumvention of the intent of the law puts you at 100% LIABILITY if your gun is ever stolen, used for home defense, or in any way involved with anything that brings the light of the law onto you.
This idea is just damned stupid! You could lose it all, along with the shop that facilitated the transfer....
eheheheh. Pure entertainment.

Thanks ConvertiBee, you brightened my day with your nonsense.

And your doing it in multiple threads, nice.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...8#post14755558
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  #123  
Old 11-22-2014, 3:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
The same procedure applies to Colts and Rugers, pretty much any DA revolver. You could convert a Python in about 10 minutes, same for any of the older Colt DA revolvers. Correct screwdriver, punch and hammer is all it takes.

I plan to SAE a Dan Wesson 715 most likely the same procedure.
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  #124  
Old 12-15-2014, 9:27 PM
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Anyone know if a Taurus 17HMR can be converted over?
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  #125  
Old 12-31-2014, 12:22 PM
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So I can get the s&w performance center 460??
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  #126  
Old 12-31-2014, 3:54 PM
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Has this SA exemption been affected by the new SSE law about to take effect?
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  #127  
Old 12-31-2014, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Has this SA exemption been affected by the new SSE law about to take effect?
SSE changes do not affect SAE (single-action revolver exemption)
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  #128  
Old 01-01-2015, 7:42 PM
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Is it possible to convert a Rhino with a 2" barrel? Could a longer barrel be inserted into the Rhino barrel (as with SSE) before the SAE procedure?
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  #129  
Old 01-31-2015, 3:53 PM
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Any info on converting a ruger Super Redhawk? Looking at a photo of the hammer (see below), I'm not sure what would be required to render the gun SA only:

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  #130  
Old 01-31-2015, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apurvab View Post
Any info on converting a ruger Super Redhawk? Looking at a photo of the hammer (see below), I'm not sure what would be required to render the gun SA only:

Take out the hammer dog
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  #131  
Old 01-31-2015, 6:26 PM
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That easy? Thank you!
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  #132  
Old 02-01-2015, 9:22 AM
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That easy? Thank you!
That easy, the hard part is making sure you don't lose the real small parts between the time you dros to the time you pick up.
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  #133  
Old 02-12-2015, 2:03 PM
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Can somebody point me in the right direction for my question. I want to buy a California legal gun that a buddy of mine has in Utah, which is on the CA DOJ List of approved CA guns. Anyways, what would the legal process in buying this gun from my buddy in Utah, and have it transferred to myself her in CA.
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  #134  
Old 02-18-2015, 4:48 PM
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be sure that exact model is on the list. if so, have them send it to your local FFL dealer. There you can do the standard paperwork. You will have to pay transfer fee and sales tax, but if it on the list it is like any other registration.
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  #135  
Old 02-24-2015, 4:19 PM
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This sounds good to me, but has anyone considered if the DOJ can treat the transaction as the constructive sale of a double action? I am assuming the gun is shipped to the FFL as a DA, the parts are swapped out to convert it to SA only, it is drossed and you go home with both the SA revolver, containing the modified trigger, along with the loose trigger removed from the gun. I don't know if DOJ will try this down the road or if it will fly, but just thinking.

This has some similarities to the Glock single shot exemption. How did that or is it working out?
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  #136  
Old 02-24-2015, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
This sounds good to me, but has anyone considered if the DOJ can treat the transaction as the constructive sale of a double action? I am assuming the gun is shipped to the FFL as a DA, the parts are swapped out to convert it to SA only, it is drossed and you go home with both the SA revolver, containing the modified trigger, along with the loose trigger removed from the gun. I don't know if DOJ will try this down the road or if it will fly, but just thinking.

This has some similarities to the Glock single shot exemption. How did that or is it working out?
Constructive possession only applies to things that are illegal to own (short barreled rifle upper when you do not have a pistol lower), a double action revolver is legal to own, a single action revolver is legal to own, taking a single action revolver and making it into a double action revolver is legal. Having a double action revolver shipped to an FFL is legal, changing drop in parts at an FFL is legal. Transfering a single action revovler from out of state is legal. The entire process is legal and above board.
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  #137  
Old 02-24-2015, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConvertiBee View Post
This is BS, this is the easiest way to lose everything you value... including your right to bear arms. Sure, you can do this conversion and get a gun "in", but GOD HELP YOU if there is ever ANYTHING that puts that gun on the radar! Your circumvention of the intent of the law puts you at 100% LIABILITY if your gun is ever stolen, used for home defense, or in any way involved with anything that brings the light of the law onto you.
This idea is just damned stupid! You could lose it all, along with the shop that facilitated the transfer....
The FFL may, but may not, have a problem if this is found to be a constructive sale of an off roster DA revolver, but that law does not penalize the buyer. I also do not believe conspiracy law applies to a crime that requires a second part for its commission. YOU MAY NOT RELY ON THIS AS LEGAL ADVICE. I am not licensed to practice law in this state and you are not my client. I have not thoroughly reviewed and analyzed the facts, issues, and relevant law. If you need legal advice regarding the above retain and consult an attorney.

Last edited by Chewy65; 02-25-2015 at 7:33 PM..
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  #138  
Old 02-24-2015, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Constructive possession only applies to things that are illegal to own (short barreled rifle upper when you do not have a pistol lower), a double action revolver is legal to own, a single action revolver is legal to own, taking a single action revolver and making it into a double action revolver is legal. Having a double action revolver shipped to an FFL is legal, changing drop in parts at an FFL is legal. Transfering a single action revovler from out of state is legal. The entire process is legal and above board.
That is your take on it, but many an FFL is passing on these sales because those individual legal transactions might be treated as parts of a single illegal transaction.
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  #139  
Old 02-24-2015, 10:50 PM
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Chewy,
1) What the heck is a "constructive sale"? Can you identify something in the Penal Code that describes this and indicates illegality?
2) SA conversion does not require swapping parts, new triggers, or loose old triggers. Why are you stating that it does?
3) Why are you posting this here? If you are uncomfortable with the legal, proven process described within this thread then don't do it.
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  #140  
Old 02-25-2015, 7:57 AM
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1. Regarding California criminal law, start your research with Ex Parte McNulty 77 Cal. 164. Also read up on constructive possession, constructive employee discharge, constructive drug sales, constructive breach of contract, constructive breach of fiduciary duty. Now, can you identify any case law, statute, code, ruling, or just a DOJ letter says that such a contrived end run around the roster law does not run afoul of law?

2. I was thinking of the law and not the mechanics, when typing triggers instead of hammers. That was sloppy, but there is no question about the mechanical aspect of the conversion. But you say that a SE conversion does not require swapping parts? Don't most or all of the stories related above involve the swapping of a SA hammer for a DA hammer at the FFL before beginning DROS?

3. You say that this is "a legal, proven process". Great. Is it a test case, a letter from the DOJ, or what? Please cite it. I admit that this surprises me, since my understanding is that many FFL's refuse to do this. Why do they pass on the business when it has a legal, proven process?

Last edited by Chewy65; 02-25-2015 at 8:05 AM..
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  #141  
Old 02-25-2015, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
1. Regarding California criminal law, start your research with Ex Parte McNulty 77 Cal. 164. Also read up on constructive possession, constructive employee discharge, constructive drug sales, constructive breach of contract, constructive breach of fiduciary duty. Now, can you identify any case law, statute, code, ruling, or just a DOJ letter says that such a contrived end run around the roster law does not run afoul of law?

2. I was thinking of the law and not the mechanics, when typing triggers instead of hammers. That was sloppy, but there is no question about the mechanical aspect of the conversion. But you say that a SE conversion does not require swapping parts? Don't most or all of the stories related above involve the swapping of a SA hammer for a DA hammer at the FFL before beginning DROS?

3. You say that this is "a legal, proven process". Great. Is it a test case, a letter from the DOJ, or what? Please cite it. I admit that this surprises me, since my understanding is that many FFL's refuse to do this. Why do they pass on the business when it has a legal, proven process?
Some ffl's still don't sell AR's because they think bullet buttons are illegal. Thankfully, the standard for legality isn't the opinion of the majority of FFL holders. Plus constructive possession requires you to only be able to make/posses something that is illegal, both double action and single actions revolvers are legal, thus no contructive possession.

Think of it this way, if the cadoj could have shut down the single shot exception without new legislation they would have.

Last edited by shooting4life; 02-25-2015 at 12:59 PM..
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  #142  
Old 02-25-2015, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Some ffl's still don't sell AR's because they think bullet buttons are illegal. Thankfully, the standard for legality isn't the opinion of the majority of FFL holders. Plus constructive possession requires you to only be able to make/posses something that is illegal, both double action and single actions revolvers are legal, thus no contructive possession.

Think of it this way, if the cadoj could have shut down the single shot exception without new legislation they would have.
The standard for legality may not be the opinion of the majority of ffl holders, but their opinions are often based on the advice attorneys with expertise in the field. Again, I am not talking about constructive possession but the constructive sale of an off roster handgun. So you are saying that the DOJ always gets the law correct. Those cases are prosecuted by attorneys who like to take easy cases and prosecutors often shy away from any but the low hanging fruit. In the case of the SSE, someone may have felt it easiest to amend the statute to eliminate the exception. That does not mean that the DOJ isn't going to come after license holders for abusing the SAE. They may not have even considered the SAE at the time that revision of the SSE was being suggested. Moreover, do you know that the DOJ isn't quietly building a case as we speak?

You are assuming that the SSE exception was amended because the DOJ didn't believe it could prosecute FFL holders as it was worded. Do you know that was the reason or is it just a guess? For that matter, was the DOJ laying the groundwork for a prosecution when the decision was made to except conversions from the exemption? Does the fact that a legislative amendment excluding a conversion from the scope of the SAE not suggest that such a conversion is considered prosecutable?

I am still waiting for you to document where the SAE under the above contorted facts has been held to be a " legal, proven process". Some would say it sounds very much like a plan to circumvent the law by a strawman conversion when the true intent is the sale of an off roster DA handgun.

Last edited by Chewy65; 02-25-2015 at 2:39 PM..
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  #143  
Old 02-25-2015, 2:39 PM
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There you go with "constructive sale" again. I would define constructive possession as one possessing the necessary parts to build something illegal like a bomb, SBR, etc. I think you are making up a new legal term called constructive sale that really has no meaning.

The SA conversion is nothing more than converting the mechanical function of a firearm to be fully compliant with the law prior to transferring it to a California buyer.
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  #144  
Old 02-25-2015, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
There you go with "constructive sale" again. I would define constructive possession as one possessing the necessary parts to build something illegal like a bomb, SBR, etc. I think you are making up a new legal term called constructive sale that really has no meaning.

I don't believe I can and won't even try changing what you think. I gave you several instances of where the law looks at a set of factors that viewed independently have one legal effect, but the court constructs the same facts so as to reflect the ultimate true transaction.

The SA conversion is nothing more than converting the mechanical function of a firearm to be fully compliant with the law prior to transferring it to a California buyer.

That is but one aspect of the above described purchases, which involve an agreement for the sale of an off roster DA revolver by converting it to SA in order to take advantage of the SAE, when the intention is the sale of a DA revolver. The intent part can be hard to prove, but wanna bet that the DOJ hasn't had investigators and CI's building cases?
This reminds me of all the machinists that were milling lowers on shop CNC machines for the owners of the lowers. It was literally one big party (they actually had build parties). Quite a while later the prosecutions began.
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  #145  
Old 02-25-2015, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
This reminds me of all the machinists that were milling lowers on shop CNC machines for the owners of the lowers. It was literally one big party (they actually had build parties). Quite a while later the prosecutions began.
Besides very specific instances which are spelled out in the code section, intent is meaningless.

Why not provide us the code section which makes the transfer of a dimensionally complient single action revolver illegal? Everything that is not specifically illegal, either by code or case law, is legal. Based on this framework it is impossible to prove that anything is legal since everything is assumed to be legal unless state otherwise.
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  #146  
Old 02-25-2015, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Besides very specific instances which are spelled out in the code section, intent is meaningless.

Why not provide us the code section which makes the transfer of a dimensionally complient single action revolver illegal? Everything that is not specifically illegal, either by code or case law, is legal. Based on this framework it is impossible to prove that anything is legal since everything is assumed to be legal unless state otherwise.
You want case law? Did you ever hear of a case of first impression? It is specifically illegal for a FFL holder to sell an off roster gun unless certain exemptions apply. I gave you my thoughts as to why how the court will construe the facts so as to find that the exception does not apply in many of the scenarios used to circumvent the intent of the Legislature. This is such a simple factual issue. The prosecutor only has to ask the jury if the FFL was selling a single action or if the whole scenarion was contrived to mask the real transaction, the sale of an off roster DA revolver. You are going to believe what you want and I am content to wait and see what happens.

Last edited by Chewy65; 02-25-2015 at 4:38 PM..
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  #147  
Old 02-25-2015, 6:19 PM
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I'm thinking about doing a single action exemption
conversion on a S&W model 14. Here's an interesting point. Most model 14's came DA. However, SA was an option. So what's the difference? A hammer sear. The DA has one and the SA doesn't. Not sure I see what the issue is. The SAE is for single action revolvers that meet certain criteria. Barrel length, number of cylinders etc. Remember, in CA. this same revolver is legal to PPT in SA and DA. So if I buy the SA factory version, who's to say I can't change the hammer and make it DA? Just a side note: This was my duty revolver back in the 60's. Seemed ok to carry it then. Same handgun. Just my 2 cents.
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  #148  
Old 02-25-2015, 6:45 PM
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I guess we can agree to disagree. And while it has been a lively discussion, I would rather not build this molehill up internally into a mountain, giving antis more reasons to restrict our freedoms.

At the end of the day, keep in mind we are discussing firearm enthusiasts, purchasing and enjoying mostly older revolvers! Not machine guns, grenades, shoulder fired rockets, dynamite, etc.
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  #149  
Old 02-25-2015, 7:24 PM
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I am with you ColdDeadHands. If I may just add, I am not licensed to practice law in this state and nothing I have said should be taken as legal advice. I offer it only for entertainment and educational value and in hope of preserving my own Constitutional rights, including but not limited to the Firtst Amendment Freedom of Speech and the 2nd's Right to Bear Arms. Anyone needing legal advice should seek counsel with their attorney. I believe that somewhere CalGuns suggests that one should not post any specifics that may subject themselves to criminal prosecution and potential liability.

One last point regarding the legal issues and I will NOT give you my take on it; which is whether or not the buyer of a DA that may or may not need to be rostered due to the SSE has any criminal liability, even if we were to assume for argument's sale that the transaction will be treated as the sale of a non-exempt DA. In that case the FFL holder has a problem, but does the buyer?

I am not saying and wish you all good luck should you make any purchases that you believe to qualify for the SA Exemption.
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  #150  
Old 05-05-2015, 7:06 PM
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From what I've been told by my local gun shop, as of the new year (Jan 2015) California no longer allows conversion for single shot exemption of off roster handguns. Is this true?
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  #151  
Old 05-05-2015, 7:50 PM
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From what I've been told by my local gun shop, as of the new year (Jan 2015) California no longer allows conversion for single shot exemption of off roster handguns. Is this true?
in 2015, the practice of taking a semi-automatic handgun and converting to a dimensionally-compliant single-shot handgun (SSE) has been blocked by new laws. this thread is not talking about SSE, but is talking about SAE instead.
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  #152  
Old 05-24-2015, 9:22 PM
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Anybody done this for the chiappa rhinos? I have my eye on the gold one.
I've seen a few rhinos sold out of my local gun shop using SSE. Pretty cool but of course they charge to convert then convert back
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  #153  
Old 05-24-2015, 9:38 PM
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Do you mean SAE? Also, Chiappa made some of them single action from the factory for the California market. I'm more interested in the double action gold one on whether I can SAE it.
Yes I do! Sorry. How I wish I can SSE again.... owell, just gotta get more wheel guns! Gold would be cool. Would it match my ksg?
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  #154  
Old 08-19-2015, 6:27 AM
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WARNING: DON'T LOSE THE D.A. SEAR SPRING when you convert your revolver to single action only. It is a very small part mounted between the DA sear and the hammer. You will need it if you ever decide to convert it back to double action.

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  #155  
Old 08-21-2015, 7:41 AM
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Post Another middleman for transfers to California

I just happened to read the fine print on a seller online. He will ship to California AND he says he can assist in transferring a gun from a seller that will NOT ship to California. $30 + shipping. Here is the info:

http://www.gunsinternational.com

Seller: barrybrowning

State: North Carolina

Phone: (919) 539-6098
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  #156  
Old 04-29-2016, 3:36 PM
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Can anyone direct me to a SAE friendly FFL in the Bay Area (East Bay preferred) or Sacramento region?
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  #157  
Old 04-29-2016, 4:28 PM
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Can anyone direct me to a SAE friendly FFL in the Bay Area (East Bay preferred) or Sacramento region?
Rob Blank in Milpitas. Right off 680 at Jacklin Rd.
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  #158  
Old 05-05-2016, 11:32 AM
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Sorry folks for the dumb question, but I'm totally confused about the roster.

There are a lot of DA revolvers on the Cal roster. S&W 629-6, etc. that are DA/SA. I thought only in terms of standard sized handguns (not micros), all revolvers were allowed on the list and that it is mainly semi-autos that aren't allowed. What part of the law says a DA revolver is not qualified for the roster?

Also, of the semi-autos, if they're on the list, I thought they can still be newly acquired by stores from distributors & manufacturers and sold without having microstamping. A dealer in Reno told me that Calif. stores can only sell previous models they have, and can't refill their stock with new orders from out of state because nothing has microstamping. Is that correct??
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  #159  
Old 06-06-2016, 8:56 PM
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Tahoeshooter Tahoeshooter is offline
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I'm confused folks. The S&W 686, Colt Python and many other DA/SA revolvers are on the DOJ Roster, but you are talking about how they aren't and need to be SA exempted. Are you talking only about very specific submodels of revolvers? What am I missing?
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Old 06-06-2016, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoeshooter View Post
I'm confused folks. The S&W 686, Colt Python and many other DA/SA revolvers are on the DOJ Roster, but you are talking about how they aren't and need to be SA exempted. Are you talking only about very specific submodels of revolvers? What am I missing?
A brand new 686 or Python may be on the roster but the classics of the last 40 years most certainly are not. The SA conversion process is used to import these classic wheelguns into this terrible state, controlled by our liberal democrat, tyrannical masters.
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