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  #161  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:12 PM
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From what I understand, if you manufacture an 80%, it will have to be roster exempt via 0 mag sled single shot or bolt action.

Since the receiver was "already manufactured" you can build it into however you want. So from what I understand, ppt lower = handgun. Build 80% = has to be roster exempt.
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  #162  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:45 PM
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I tend to agree with Flavor. The firearm is the registered part in every case. I've seen people dros a p320 fcu and then put a sig x change kit on it. Or purchase a Glock registered lower and then put a Glock upper on it.

Yea I know people will say, just because you see people do it doesn't make it ok.

Well I think it goes back to the basics. To the government what is considered the firearm. My understanding is the registered part is the gun.


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  #163  
Old 07-25-2017, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
None are available in our state of CA. We can only buy on the roster guns unless you are exempt. You have to build one from an 80% lower and this thread covers the legalities.

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Techincally their are two manufactures left that I know of, who still make these AR Pistols.

Gunfighter Tactical in San Diego, CA
and
Ledesma Arms in Chino Hills, CA.

Both are type 07 FFL's that still make Single Shot AR pistols. Here's a video of them testing out a Ledesma Arms Model P as a single shot fixed magazine with 0 round sled, and then converting it to a top load 10 once it is registered to you.
https://youtu.be/RNLKvrrCkR0

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  #164  
Old 07-25-2017, 7:08 AM
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This is how I got my AR pistol. Some guy selling entire AR pistol. I asked if he is willing to sell just his stripped lower receiver and he agreed. Asked the guy if he had proof if it was a pistol. He said he didnt and will go get a copy of where he bought it. He got proof, serial number matched stating it was dros'd and registered as a pistol.

Many places like Turners, Ammo Bros, Cap Tactical not willing to do it due to policy. Called Riflegear and Crosshair Tactical and they said they will dros the stripped pistol lower no problem. Both stores said just make sure theres no old bullet button and no pistol grip on there prior to ppt. That was the only thing they told me.

Met up at Crosshair cause RG too far. During dros, I made sure they put "Handgun" and "Semi-Automatic" which they did. I was afraid the guy will dros is as a rifle you would be f**ked. After 10 day wait, got my lower and no issues.

So its dros'd as a handgun and semi-auto. It is on my dros paper. I made copies and carry it around if I go shoot with it just in case anyone decides to question me.

Since some places manufactured single shot ar pistols, you are not the manufacturer, so you can convert it to semi auto. I am not the manufacturer of my stripped lower so I can make it semiauto.

Can someone say you assembled, built, etc. into an "unsafe handgun". Who knows. But they cant say you manufactured it.

Besides, its 10 rounds, non removeable mag, its break action. So you did not build/assemble an assault weapon. Maybe just into an "unsafe". But I believe ppt covers exempt from "unsafe". Since you can legally ppt an off roster handgun which is already considered "unsafe" because it doesnt have any california chamber indicator, mag disconnect, etc.
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  #165  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:48 AM
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Build an 80 lower with an ARMAGLOCK. How will anyone know when you built it, and or if it was originally a single shot conversion?


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  #166  
Old 07-25-2017, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe1 View Post
Build an 80 lower with an ARMAGLOCK. How will anyone know when you built it, and or if it was originally a single shot conversion?
Discussion and recommendation of ways to get away with violating the law is prohibited on Calguns.

Discussion must center on the law and what is and is not legal.

It is up to the individual person what risk they are willing to take in violating the law.

ASSEMBLING a manufactured lower into a semi-automatic pistol is illegal in California.

There is a period at the end of that statement.
User Quiet has posted the law.
Whether it began as an 80% or as a DROS'd "pistol" lower is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #167  
Old 07-25-2017, 7:23 PM
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Quiet can you chime in? I read that you were referring "assembling" a SSE2, either bought as SSE2 or 80% (not an already manufactured receiver) into semi auto could be "manufacturing" an unsafe handgun. My lower receiver was not a SSE2/80%. It is registered as semi auto on my paperwork. Your thoughts?
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  #168  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:16 PM
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Default 2017 AR pistol thread (master)

Wait. So based on what Cokebottle is saying. I can't assemble a Glock upper and stick it on a registered pistol Glock lower? So no more caliber changes. What about a none polygonal rifled barrel reassembled into the upper and assembled on a registered Glock pistol lower. Is that illegal too?

I think this discussion is similar to what happened to the pistol brace a bunch of people ask and speculate and then a dumb decision is passed and then changed.

I think someone said it best. No one knows exactly. So I go to the basics. A firearm is the registered part. If machine a lower or machine two halves and bolt them together "assemble" that is might be illegal.

A registered lower is the gun.


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  #169  
Old 07-25-2017, 11:19 PM
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After reading what you wrote and what coke bottle wrote I understand. Thanks for clarification. I'll go back and buy more ammo now.


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  #170  
Old 07-26-2017, 12:13 AM
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Who me? Youre welcome. Just MY understanding of the law. IANAL. As far as cokebottle, I can understand his point of view as well. Thank you for your input.
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  #171  
Old 07-26-2017, 6:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Discussion and recommendation of ways to get away with violating the law is prohibited on Calguns.

Discussion must center on the law and what is and is not legal.

It is up to the individual person what risk they are willing to take in violating the law.

ASSEMBLING a manufactured lower into a semi-automatic pistol is illegal in California.

There is a period at the end of that statement.
User Quiet has posted the law.
Whether it began as an 80% or as a DROS'd "pistol" lower is irrelevant.


Sorry, I posted that while being very tired. Should have read "If built with"... I was not intending to advocate skirting the law or making illegal guns/s. My point was.... how will the government know when a person built it, or how it was originally built? From my understanding, at least right now, there is no past requirement to show proof of SS1 on and 80% build... is there? As Quiet posted, a SS1 80 built prior to 1/1/15 can be converted to semi, so that's what I was basing my thought off of. Again , sorry for the confusion.


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  #172  
Old 07-26-2017, 8:01 AM
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People who manufactured 80% prior to 1/1/15 who have proof and documentation will be able to convert to semi auto. Anything built post 1/1/15 you will have to follow the new law and you might no longer be able to convert it to semi auto. Its still in the gray area like Quiet said. You want to be a test case? Thats up to you and your comfort level. Prosecutor could say you started with an 80% lower and manufactured an unsafe handgun in the end. You willing to deal with all that just for an AR pistol?
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  #173  
Old 07-26-2017, 9:56 AM
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Although I do have proof and documentation prior to 1/1/15 for my stuff, where does it indicate in the penal code or otherwise for those who built their own AR pistol at home from an 80 to actually have such. I do cause I'm overly cautious, but I can't find that text anywhere where one has to keep such. Do you know where to find it?


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  #174  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavor View Post
People who manufactured 80% prior to 1/1/15 who have proof and documentation will be able to convert to semi auto. Anything built post 1/1/15 you will have to follow the new law and you might no longer be able to convert it to semi auto. Its still in the gray area like Quiet said. You want to be a test case? Thats up to you and your comfort level. Prosecutor could say you started with an 80% lower and manufactured an unsafe handgun in the end. You willing to deal with all that just for an AR pistol?


Also... as LEO myself (28 years), I asked that because no way would I take a firearm from an individual based on gray area. Good way to get fired and sued. If a non felon had an AR 80% pistol that was set up with a fixed mag, engraved per the law, and said he built it back in say 2014 as a SS1 and converted it to semi, I cannot take it and let the DA figure it out unless I have probable cause to believe otherwise. Unless you can show me, it is LEO (me if on duty) and the DA who has the burden of proof and can only arrest off probable cause. In this case I do not, but I may change my view if you could point me to where it says anyone who built such a weapon prior to 1/1/15 must keep proof of the SS1 build from and 80%r. Not tying to argue or start crap; just tying to gather info that you may have that I don't.

Side note; I can't wait to retire and leave this commie state ca and all the BS libturd laws


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  #175  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:16 AM
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Default 2017 AR pistol thread (master)

Thank you for your service brother. Stay safe out there. Majority of cops prefer citizens to not have guns unless they have some training like us (I have the same feeling. I went through academy but I got injured that prevented me from graduating). Its not in the law, but it would put you at ease like myself. I bought an ar pistol receiver from someone, he had proof that it was dros'd/registered as pistol and when I bought it, the lgs dros'd it as a pistol and semi auto. I built it as a MK18 Mod 0 inspired build with a 10.5 in barrel. Everytime I take it out, I carry the paperwork with me just as a protection. If someone has a problem, I could pull it out and be like "heres my proof".
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  #176  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:20 AM
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My cousins moved to Florida and Texas. The Texans cousins are not really into guns. They are into cars more. The cousins in Florida love the gun laws there. One of them uses an HK45c with a suppressor as home protection (he said he doesnt want to lose his hearing if he needs to shoot inside his house). Where would you move to after you retire?
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  #177  
Old 07-26-2017, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavor View Post
My cousins moved to Florida and Texas. The Texans cousins are not really into guns. They are into cars more. The cousins in Florida love the gun laws there. One of them uses an HK45c with a suppressor as home protection (he said he doesnt want to lose his hearing if he needs to shoot inside his house). Where would you move to after you retire?


I have land in Utah already, but I'm very interested in Coeur d'alene Idaho or nearby that. Wyo and Montana are also on my radar. Not gonna retire in a blue libturd controlled state that lives by the robinhood or nanny effect.

Back on the gun issue, as a field supervisor for 16 years, I know most beat cops won't have a single clue (which in itself is scary) when it comes to all these new gun laws. They'll be briefed and trained on the simple stuff like AW registration/definition and required markings, but all the SS1 vs SS2 and all the dates associated with those rules and what you can and cannot do will most likely not be retained or even enforced by first responders of this nature. I see at most, if there is suspicion of illegal activity, a referral to the ATF could be in order. Or if the agency has a special team that specializes in this area, they could be summoned to inquire. Unless a contact occurs in a rural area where LE isn't busy (many calls pending) a LEO isn't going to waste time with on a fishing expedition in trying to determine the legality of a firearm if the subject
- is not a felon and has clean record
- isn't up to nefarious activity
- had the required markings on weapon
- registered it properly if serialized
- has a weapon that isn't illegal on face value such as being a SBR, fully auto, or having any other illegal item on it such as a suppressor, double sided bayonet, etc.
- isn't an a-hole...

There is the letter of the law and spirit of the law. The "letter" is reserved for a-holes. So, if I contacted a person that fit the above criteria in possession of an AR pistol with a fixed mag, that had the min barrel and overall length, I'd be on my way to my next call.

My hope is somehow with our new Supreme Court, all these BS gun grabber laws are deemed unconstitutional and overturned. Until then, all we can do is do is prepare for the worse, hope for the best, and pray for good to triumph this evil being puked out Sacramento.



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  #178  
Old 07-26-2017, 3:36 PM
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Adam henry's you have to deal with on the street as well as Sacramento...just two more years bud!
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  #179  
Old 07-26-2017, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marteen View Post
Wait. So based on what Cokebottle is saying. I can't assemble a Glock upper and stick it on a registered pistol Glock lower? So no more caliber changes. What about a none polygonal rifled barrel reassembled into the upper and assembled on a registered Glock pistol lower. Is that illegal too?

I think this discussion is similar to what happened to the pistol brace a bunch of people ask and speculate and then a dumb decision is passed and then changed.

I think someone said it best. No one knows exactly. So I go to the basics. A firearm is the registered part. If machine a lower or machine two halves and bolt them together "assemble" that is might be illegal.

A registered lower is the gun.
Parts changes would not be a problem, nor would caliber changes, as you are not changing the function.

The problem is that the current law defined "manufacturing" to include "assembly of parts".
Parts replacement of "like for like" components would be legally defensible in court.
Conversion from bolt action single shot to 10-shot semi-automatic would be a more difficult argument.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #180  
Old 07-26-2017, 8:23 PM
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Cokebottle, I think you are confused what Quiet was referring to when he said "manufacturing" to include "assembly of parts". He was just referring to 80%/SSE2 converting to semi auto. Cause what you are saying is that if I buy only a Glock frame and take it home, put a slide on there, now I made an unsafe handgun? Does not make sense. If Quiet could clarify would be great.
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  #181  
Old 07-26-2017, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavor View Post
Cokebottle, I think you are confused what Quiet was referring to when he said "manufacturing" to include "assembly of parts". He was just referring to 80%/SSE2 converting to semi auto. Cause what you are saying is that if I buy only a Glock frame and take it home, put a slide on there, now I made an unsafe handgun? Does not make sense. If Quiet could clarify would be great.
If you buy a pistol frame that is a bare frame only and has never been completed into a functioning pistol, then it is no different from completing an 80%.

The question above was specifying AR pistol lowers, not Glock-manufactured frames that had been stripped and sold bare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calin15
So this thread and others is almost all about 80%. If I ppt an AR Pistol lower this year. Am I allowed to build it as a semi automatic AR Pistol?

My understanding is yes because I'm not building the registered part (receiver). Similarly to building up a Glock using Zev parts but a registered Glock frame.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #182  
Old 07-26-2017, 8:37 PM
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Default 2017 AR pistol thread (master)

I see what you are saying. The thing is no one knows what they actually mean.

Current 80% is machined/drilled/filed at home. I've seen someone assemble a receiver (not complete the lower) actually just piece parts together to make a receiver, then later put in the lpk etc..

I think the more everyone talks about it then the more the worse come true (case and point the arm brace)

There really is the same with caliber conversion, you are creating something different than the original intent. I understand you know what the difference is but keep in mind CA law makers talked about 40 round 308 magazine clips and believe you can buy fully automatic rocket launchers on eBay. To them it would be easy to see installing a conversion kit is assembling (the way you interpret it).

I like the basics of the registered part is the gun. I think we can agree to disagree and wait for a poor soul to go to court. Until then I'm buying ammo






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  #183  
Old 07-26-2017, 9:23 PM
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So what you are saying is, it would be better to buy a completed ar pistol from someone. This way it just looks like you just ppt an off roster handgun that is exempt from unsafe handgun.

But lets say you buy a CA neutered Sig Sauer P226 on roster with lci and mag disconnect. If I buy a new slide because I dont like the lci and disable the mag disconnect, then I have just "manufactured" or "assembled" an unsafe handgun.

But how do you know if they did not just built off a bare ar pistol lower receiver?

Thinking about it, when a lgs dros the receiver, the only option should be "semi auto". Unless they added the "single shot" option for 2017?
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  #184  
Old 07-26-2017, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavor View Post
So what you are saying is, it would be better to buy a completed ar pistol from someone. This way it just looks like you just ppt an off roster handgun that is exempt from unsafe handgun.
And legal

Quote:
But lets say you buy a CA neutered Sig Sauer P226 on roster with lci and mag disconnect. If I buy a new slide because I dont like the lci and disable the mag disconnect, then I have just "manufactured" or "assembled" an unsafe handgun.
A couple of members have indicated that they believe this to be illegal.

However, one also claimed that installing night sights on a gun is illegal for the same reason.

Quote:
But how do you know if they did not just built off a bare ar pistol lower receiver?
They may have, but that is on them legally, not you, the purchaser.
The criminal act would be the original non-compliant build.

Quote:
Thinking about it, when a lgs dros the receiver, the only option should be "semi auto". Unless they added the "single shot" option for 2017?
DROS would indicate "Frame Only", "Semi-Automatic", "Single Action", or "Bolt Action"
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #185  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:07 PM
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Mine says semi auto on dros. Guess I got lucky then.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:00 PM
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If i want to legally build a new ar pistol, will installing the tracking point bsd to make it single shot comply with SSE2?
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:45 AM
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If i want to legally build a new ar pistol, will installing the tracking point bsd to make it single shot comply with SSE2?
Quiet has mentioned it before in earlier posts, in order to create an AR Pistol it must start from an 80% lower that was never configured as a rifle or as a lower that was DROS'd as a Pistol back in the day & it must have originated as a single shot pistol unable to accept any rounds via a 0 Round sled. In terms of that device I don't think it serves a purpose based on the fact that you need to have a 0 Round sled installed in the magazine in order for it to be single shot. Best to save your money and put it elsewhere.

Personally I have Three AR Pistols (Two of which were bought from manufacturers of California Compliant Pistols and the other being an 80%'r), Each of them came with 0 Round sleds and I was informed that the law is gray in terms of the legalities of converting them into SEMI-Auto. However each came with the Gas system fully installed, but the 0 Round Sled renders them single shot by design. They mentioned that I can convert them into top loaders (Check out, Mean Arms Top loader) but the magazine must stay fixed and permanently installed in the magwell.

Since I'm not a lawyer, take my advice with a grain of salt. If you build a AR pistol make sure that you document your build process, in order to prove that your pistol originated as a Single Shot AR Pistol. From my understanding and asking various manufacturers in Southern California that still make these AR Pistols in 2017 (Gunfighter Tactical and Ledesma Arms) you need to use a Magazine locking device that has a 0 Round Sled installed so the gun cannot accept any rounds and can only be loaded from the chamber 1 round at a time (Single Shot). Although the laws are gray in terms of converting that dimensionally compliant single shot AR Pistol into a top loader or etc, be careful and read up on stuff so you don't accidentally create an assault weapon.
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  #188  
Old 08-09-2017, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Run300Blackout View Post
If i want to legally build a new ar pistol, will installing the tracking point bsd to make it single shot comply with SSE2?
NO.

Because the BSD will make it "not semi auto". you will be manufacturing a pistol that is a push button bolt action manual repeater. The only way it'll be single shot is if you lock in a single shot sled. With or without a BSD to prevent semiautomatic operation.

Flowchart. BSD = not semi auto.

Single shot mag + mag lock = meets definition of single shot. (by definition I am not talking about CAPC definition, I don't think single shot is in there. Semi-auto is...)
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  #189  
Old 08-09-2017, 6:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Run300Blackout View Post
If i want to legally build a new ar pistol, will installing the tracking point bsd to make it single shot comply with SSE2?
It needs to be a single-shot that operates with a break-top/open action or with a bolt-action and it can never have been a semi-auto prior to being made into a single-shot. [PC 32100(b)]
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  #190  
Old 08-10-2017, 4:25 PM
Run300Blackout Run300Blackout is offline
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I thought that SSE2 doesn't allow for us to convert from single shot to semi-auto, period.
How accurate is this statement that a user posted on Reddit r/CAguns?

The SSE2 rules were to prevent FFLs from receiving semi-auto off-roster handguns, converting them to single shot, selling them, and then the customer is free to reconfigure the weapon back to multi-shot.

So the SSE2 exemption only applies to weapons that were manufactured as single-shot - the FFL7 (manufacturer) who built the pistol had to ship it from the factory as single shot.

You are still free, as the owner of the weapon, to convert it back to multi-shot.

Gunfighter Tactical down in San Diego has an FFL7 and will sell you a single-shot AR pistol with no gas tube and a mag block. Since they manufactured it as single shot, they can SSE2 it to you. Once you own it, there is nothing to stop you from installing a gas tube and removing the mag block, thus converting it back to semi-auto.

These AR pistols of course still require the new bullet-button/action-releases to be compliant with the AWB.
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  #191  
Old 08-10-2017, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run300Blackout View Post
I thought that SSE2 doesn't allow for us to convert from single shot to semi-auto, period.
How accurate is this statement that a user posted on Reddit r/CAguns?

The SSE2 rules were to prevent FFLs from receiving semi-auto off-roster handguns, converting them to single shot, selling them, and then the customer is free to reconfigure the weapon back to multi-shot.

So the SSE2 exemption only applies to weapons that were manufactured as single-shot - the FFL7 (manufacturer) who built the pistol had to ship it from the factory as single shot.

You are still free, as the owner of the weapon, to convert it back to multi-shot.

Gunfighter Tactical down in San Diego has an FFL7 and will sell you a single-shot AR pistol with no gas tube and a mag block. Since they manufactured it as single shot, they can SSE2 it to you. Once you own it, there is nothing to stop you from installing a gas tube and removing the mag block, thus converting it back to semi-auto.

These AR pistols of course still require the new bullet-button/action-releases to be compliant with the AWB.
Because of definition changes relating to CA's "home built firearm" laws, it may no longer be legal to convert a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally complaint break-top single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}


Summary...

Before 2015, it was legal to convert a single-shot pistol to semi-auto.

From 2015-2016, it could be legal to convert a single-shot pistol to semi-auto. This was due to requirements that the single-shot pistol could never have been semi-auto prior to being made into a single-shot.
single-shot -> semi-auto = legal
semi-auto -> single-shot -> semi-auto = illegal

Starting 2017, it may not be legal to convert a single-shot to semi-auto. This was due to changes in the definition of "manufacturing" as part of the "home built" firearm laws.
^This is still unknown and most likely a clear answer will not be forth coming until after CA DOJ releases the regulations pertaining to "home built" firearms and lawyers for both sides get the analyze them.
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Old 08-10-2017, 5:45 PM
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Thank you, Quiet for answering all my questions on this thread, I really appreciate it!

I was responding to a post on reddit about the legalities of a concerned reddit user about his ar pistol and I pretty much copy and pasted the info that I learned on here onto r/CAguns and that was the response that somone posted to my response. I am really hoping what he posted is accurate as I wish to continue future builds. Thanks again for all your responses to my questions!
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  #193  
Old 08-10-2017, 6:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Starting 2017, it may not be legal to convert a single-shot to semi-auto. This was due to changes in the definition of "manufacturing" as part of the "home built" firearm laws.
^This is still unknown and most likely a clear answer will not be forth coming until after CA DOJ releases the regulations pertaining to "home built" firearms and lawyers for both sides get the analyze them.
This is the problem.

If you build a semi auto from a single shot now and take your chances with what the results are, you could be be okay or you could have built something illegal.

Or option 2, you wait to find out and by then they've written something new that clearly bands our ability to make semi auto home builds.

Either way we are potentially screwed.

Last edited by Nothingontv; 08-10-2017 at 7:23 PM..
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  #194  
Old 08-10-2017, 7:01 PM
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Thank you for your service brother. Stay safe out there. Majority of cops prefer citizens to not have guns unless they have some training like us (I have the same feeling. I went through academy but I got injured that prevented me from graduating). Its not in the law, but it would put you at ease like myself. I bought an ar pistol receiver from someone, he had proof that it was dros'd/registered as pistol and when I bought it, the lgs dros'd it as a pistol and semi auto. I built it as a MK18 Mod 0 inspired build with a 10.5 in barrel. Everytime I take it out, I carry the paperwork with me just as a protection. If someone has a problem, I could pull it out and be like "heres my proof".
So your saying you didn't graduate the Academy . You own firearms . Yet feel people shouldn't have guns without some sort of training ? So you got training but didn't pass the class ,in the long run for what ever reason . Yet your trained . I find what you say ridiculous and Hypocritical. Not all training or learning happens in a Classroom or gets a person a certificate or diploma. As for Ar pistols if you can get one legally . If you don't like it you can always put any upper you want on it . And switch as needed .

Last edited by dozer wright; 08-10-2017 at 7:38 PM..
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Old 08-11-2017, 8:01 AM
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Default 2017 AR pistol thread (master)

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Originally Posted by dozer wright View Post
So your saying you didn't graduate the Academy . You own firearms . Yet feel people shouldn't have guns without some sort of training ? So you got training but didn't pass the class ,in the long run for what ever reason . Yet your trained . I find what you say ridiculous and Hypocritical. Not all training or learning happens in a Classroom or gets a person a certificate or diploma. As for Ar pistols if you can get one legally . If you don't like it you can always put any upper you want on it . And switch as needed .

The academy consists of more than dealing with just firearms. Theres firearms combat courses, tactical, driving courses, room clearing, vehicle stops, law, physical training, etc. I did not graduate due to an injury during physical training which prevented me from continuing. I made it halfway, which covers most of the training. The other half consists if mostly scenarios. We spent hundreds of hours with firearms and tactics and the most important rule is SAFETY (Never cover anyone, do not point at anything you are not willing to destroy, be sure of your target, anyways consider your firearm loaded).

I am entitled to my opinions. I do not trust people who have not had any professional training with firearms. People who go through a firearms/tactics course have more firearms DISCIPLINE than someone who just watches Youtube videos. Anyone can tell me they have "training", but why do I have to trust anyone for my own safety?

Show me a shooting range that does not have any bullet holes on the walls, ceilings and lane divider panels? Proof that there are people that should not own firearms.
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Last edited by flavor; 08-11-2017 at 8:10 AM..
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  #196  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavor View Post
The academy consists of more than dealing with just firearms. Theres firearms combat courses, tactical, driving courses, room clearing, vehicle stops, law, physical training, etc. I did not graduate due to an injury during physical training which prevented me from continuing. I made it halfway, which covers most of the training. The other half consists if mostly scenarios. We spent hundreds of hours with firearms and tactics and the most important rule is SAFETY (Never cover anyone, do not point at anything you are not willing to destroy, be sure of your target, anyways consider your firearm loaded).

I am entitled to my opinions. I do not trust people who have not had any professional training with firearms. People who go through a firearms/tactics course have more firearms DISCIPLINE than someone who just watches Youtube videos. Anyone can tell me they have "training", but why do I have to trust anyone for my own safety?

Show me a shooting range that does not have any bullet holes on the walls, ceilings and lane divider panels? Proof that there are people that should not own firearms.
I've worked in a number of police stations around Sf Bayarea . That have on site shooting ranges and it's the same thing you describe at public ranges . I've also seen the Holes in the ceilings , roofs and sky lights of Police stations . Nothing against Officers at all
Just because someone passes a class , has a License or.certificate dosnt make them safe or Knowledgeable . Driving on or roads proof that . I can also pull Up You tube videos of police officers Shooting themselves . So should they not be able to own firearms or just the average person Who has grown up with firearms . Who's hunted , target shot his whole life and probably has more rounds down range than most officers ? No class no matter who taught it, how many stars or all the pieces of laper received from it . Will make anyone any safer than they are on they are when they think no one's looking .

Last edited by dozer wright; 08-11-2017 at 10:50 AM..
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  #197  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dozer wright View Post
I've worked in a number of police stations around Sf bayare . That have on site shooting ranges and it's the same thing you describe at public ranges . I've also seen the Holes in the ceilings , roofs and sky lights of Police stations . Nothing against Officers at all
Just because someone passes a class , has a License or.certificate dosnt make them safe or Knowledgeable . Driving on or roads proof that . I can also pull Up You tube videos of police officers Shooting themselves . So should they not be able to own firearms or just the average person Who has grown up with firearms . Who's hunted , target shot his whole life and probably has more rounds down range than most officers ? No class no matter who taught it, how many stars or all the pieces of laper received from it . Will make anyone any safer than they are on they are when they think no one's looking .

True. Training or not, for me it is just safer to not trust anyone with a firearm. That's just me.
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  #198  
Old 08-20-2017, 8:34 PM
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Default 2017 AR pistol thread (master)

Curious - if one had a Tracking Point BSD (and thus, no longer Semi-Auto) on an Ar Pistol , could one then drop mags freely?


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  #199  
Old 08-20-2017, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
Curious - if one had a Tracking Point BSD (and thus, no longer Semi-Auto) on an Ar Pistol , could one then drop mags freely?
I would not want to be the test case.
I do not believe that the BSD is compliant.
The weapon still functions as a full semi-auto if you simply thumb the bolt release while firing.
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
I would not want to be the test case.
I do not believe that the BSD is compliant.
The weapon still functions as a full semi-auto if you simply thumb the bolt release while firing.


For the Tracking Point, BSD, apparently not:

https://youtu.be/aV3WqbEymA4


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