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  #41  
Old 02-03-2017, 11:48 AM
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So would it be a bad idea to try to get one onto my CCW permit?

I heard there are a few people who actually did this.
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  #42  
Old 02-03-2017, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
So would it be a bad idea to try to get one onto my CCW permit?

I heard there are a few people who actually did this.
It WAS possible (in some counties), but with the current laws, you would not be able to carry a RAW due to the locked container and specific destination requirements.

A non-RAW would be either not approved at all due to it being a single shot, or if break-top semi auto, would likely get a serious lecture from the IA about the inappropriateness of such an unpractical defensive weapon.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #43  
Old 02-16-2017, 1:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

...

Second issue... (conversion from exempt handgun to unsafe handgun)

Because of definition changes relating to CA's "home built firearm" laws, it may no longer be legal to convert a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally complaint break-top single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}

...

That said, due to CA's "home built (80%)" firearm laws, starting 01-01-2017, it may no longer be legal to make an exempt pistol (dimensionally compliant bolt-action/break-top single-shot pistol) and convert it to semi-auto because it would be considered making an unsafe handgun.

Because "manufacturing" is now legally defined as: [PC 29180(a)]
A. Fabricating or constructing a firearm.
B. Fitting together parts to construct a firearm.

It can now be argued that converting the firearm from single-shot to semi-auto, is making a new firearm.

{wait and see mode, while lawyers do battle}
Ok, so let's say I hypothetically wanted to make an AR Pistol in 2017, started from an 80% lower. I wouldn't want to register it, so I would go the BB2 route. That would make it so that I can choose to engrave a serial number, or not. So I think I have that part understood, but there's a couple points above that I'm still not sure about though.

First is the part about making it SSE2 first. Quiet states that you wouldn't want to use a completed upper as it has likely been test fired as a semi auto. Most parts can be bought in a state that you can assume it's never been used in a semi auto (e.g. barrel without a gas tube on it), however I'm curious about a bolt/bcg. I was looking at BCM bcg as they come highly recommended, but they say this:
Quote:
Prior to shipping, all BCM Bolt Carrier Groups are test fired for function. As such, the Bolt Carrier Group will show handling marks consistent with these quality control procedures.
There's no way to really know if it was fired in a single shot firearm or what, and I would say it's best to err on the side of caution assume it was used semi/full auto and not use it at all in a pistol build? But then what guarantees do I have of ANY bolt/bcg that I buy that it's never been test fired in a semi auto? Even if it doesn't say anywhere in a product listing that it's been tested before shipping, it easily could have been. Something to worry about? Or something that a prosecutor would have to prove (impossible sounding). Could I just buy any cheap bolt/bcg that doesn't mention being test fired to use for the SSE part of the build? And then when I do the semi-auto conversion slap in a bolt that may have been tested as a semi or full auto bolt?

Second issue is I'm not clear on the built after 1-1-17 part. I've seen arguments that it's fine, and I've seen people say it's still legally up in the air. It seems it's clear that you can legally still build a break top single shot ar pistol, and keep it that way. The question is whether or not converting it to a semi-auto makes it an unsafe handgun. Is this only if you want to register it? Does the break action style mag lock nullify this? Or is this across the board? Please enlighten me!

apologies if this has been covered already, I did read through several other AR Pistol threads. This is the only one recent enough that I could post a reply to though.
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  #44  
Old 02-16-2017, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRoad308 View Post
First is the part about making it SSE2 first.
It's harder to prove semi-auto with just the BCG.

Whereas, having an intact semi-auto operating system (gas tube/piston + gas block) is not hard to show that it was once or is semi-auto.
(AFAIK... When SSE2 AR pistol was being submitted to be listed on Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. CA DOJ rejected intact semi-auto operating system and had no issues with BCG)

Bottom line is where your comfort level is and how deep they'll go to prove something illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRoad308 View Post
Second issue is I'm not clear on the built after 1-1-17 part. I've seen arguments that it's fine, and I've seen people say it's still legally up in the air. It seems it's clear that you can legally still build a break top single shot ar pistol, and keep it that way. The question is whether or not converting it to a semi-auto makes it an unsafe handgun. Is this only if you want to register it? Does the break action style mag lock nullify this? Or is this across the board? Please enlighten me!
Because of part of the "home built" firearm laws going into effect on 01-01-2017, it may no longer be legal to convert a SSE2 pistol into a semi-auto pistol.

On 01-01-2017, "manufacturing" now includes assembling parts onto a firearm.

So, assembling semi-auto parts onto an existing single-shot pistol, would now be considered "manufacturing".
Therefore, you would be "manufacturing" an unsafe handgun, which violates CA laws.

It's uncertain, until DOJ weighs in and the lawyers fight it out.


Bottom line as of 01-01-2017:
making a SSE2 pistol = legal
making a semi-auto pistol = illegal
making a SSE2 pistol into a semi-auto pistol = illegal under the letter of the law, but unknown until after the lawyers (DOJ/NRA/CRPA/FPC) fight it out.
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Last edited by Quiet; 02-16-2017 at 9:29 PM..
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2017, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It's harder to prove semi-auto with just the BCG.
...
Bottom line is where your comfort level is and how deep they'll go to prove something illegal.
got it

Earlier I was asking about if a BB2 or other locking device would nullify this unsafe handgun problem, but after thinking about it more it's not about whether you have to open the action. It's about having a pistol not on that CA Roster of safe handguns. It's only exempt from it because it's a single shot. Once you go above a single shot it's no longer exempt.

However I wouldn't be manufacturing an unsafe handgun... I would be "manufacturing" or "constructing" a "safe" single shot pistol. I would then be modifying an existing safe pistol into a semi-automatic off roster handgun. My original intent was not to build an unsafe handgun. My intent would be to create a safe single shot pistol. It's not illegal to have an off roster handgun in CA. It is illegal to manufacture one, even as an individual without the intent of sale. However that's the whole point of SSE2 right? My intention is to build it as a SSE2 compliant device and then potentially modify, not construct, it to be semi auto. Thus legally producing an off roster handgun that I can own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
On 01-01-2017, "manufacturing" now includes assembling parts onto a firearm.

It's uncertain, until DOJ weighs in and the lawyers fight it out.
Do you have a reference for the part about assembling parts onto a firearm? Putting parts onto an existing firearm is where I'm confused. Which is distinctly different than taking parts from scratch and creating something where there was once nothing.

Although it may not be interpreted as such, I believe that manufacturing originally meant produced in quantity and intended for sale.

29180. (a) For purposes of this chapter, “manufacturing” or “assembling” a firearm means to fabricate or construct a firearm, or to fit together the component parts of a firearm to construct a firearm.

IANAL
I would argue that swapping a part on an existing firearm is not "constructing a firearm." Building one from scratch sure is, but swapping parts (especially out side of the lower receiver which is the actual firearm) is not constructing a firearm. It's modifying one at best. Would changing the sights on your single shot pistol mean you constructed a firearm, I don't think so. It was already constructed, it was already a firearm, it is still a firearm. If you had not acted upon the device it would still already be a firearm. Unlike a pile of parts where your action creates the firearm functionality. Ship of Theseus...

tl;dr you're right about it "may" be illegal now that it's 2017, depending on the court's interpretation of manufacture. If it includes modifying an existing firearm then yes SSE2 -> semi auto is illegal. If manufacturing does not include modifying then we'd be good to go. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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  #46  
Old 02-27-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip is a "feature"

There is some question as to whether the BB is still valid for eliminating this "feature" but I would not want to be the test case.

Until a test case is settled, I maintain that is is not possible to build a featureless AR or AK pistol.

It MUST be fixed magazine or break-top.


Not questioning this, but just wanted to re confirm - fixed magazine in a AR Pistol is good to go?

To clarify further:
- the AR Pistol was purchased SSE1 days.
- The magazine is a 10/20.
- There would be a regular mag drop BUT it is fixed via the FCHooK device - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgVgrrubS5c

I'm posting here on behalf of a response from another thread, for your reference:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...5&postcount=11

Thanks in advance, I thought I had my head wrapped around all of this....

Last edited by deephouse; 02-27-2017 at 10:43 AM..
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  #47  
Old 02-27-2017, 6:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
Not questioning this, but just wanted to re confirm - fixed magazine in a AR Pistol is good to go?

To clarify further:
- the AR Pistol was purchased SSE1 days.
- The magazine is a 10/20.
- There would be a regular mag drop BUT it is fixed via the FCHooK device - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgVgrrubS5c

I'm posting here on behalf of a response from another thread, for your reference:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...5&postcount=11

Thanks in advance, I thought I had my head wrapped around all of this....
The AW regs apply to any semiautomatic centerfire rifle without a fixed magazine, or any semiautomatic pistol able to accept a detachable magazine.
A fixed magazine would exempt both rifle and pistol.
Randall clarified a couple of posts later... he was referring to the 2018/2019 "Ghost Gun" law... since you bought yours through an FFL under SSEv1.0, you are already in the database and the lower is legally marked... it's good to go.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #48  
Old 02-27-2017, 6:43 PM
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^^ I appreciate it, I had to add more detail to my post but was able to put the pieces together. You guys rock!
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  #49  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:40 AM
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SO please forgive me for not understanding this part, But If you build the Pistol with a fix 10 rd mag and it doesn't have a gas system in place then why the need for the 0 sled mag? wouldn't be a single shot bolt action with a fix 10 rd mag?
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  #50  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by boggerbret View Post
SO please forgive me for not understanding this part, But If you build the Pistol with a fix 10 rd mag and it doesn't have a gas system in place then why the need for the 0 sled mag? wouldn't be a single shot bolt action with a fix 10 rd mag?
It would still be a non-single-shot straight-pull bolt action (it we're talking about an AR design) if the buffer tube is in place.

With the buffer replaced with a cap, it would technically meet the legal definition since it could not load from the magazine, but the presence of the magazine vs a sled may be construed as to show intent.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #51  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:32 PM
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Default AR PISTOL

Can a AR pistol still be legally built in CA?

Will the Inland Arms bolt product work? Along with a 80% AR lower build?
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  #52  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:35 PM
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Only if it is single shot or is built with the new bullet button that requires you to break open the action.
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  #53  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:36 PM
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Please use search many posts on this. Yes you can build. Must jump thru the proper hoops built as single shot bolt or break top. No gas system. Will have to be engraved with proper info eventually. Must be fixed mag after conversion. Do not use a polymer 80%
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  #54  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:42 PM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1311906
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  #55  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Please use search many posts on this. Yes you can build. Must jump thru the proper hoops built as single shot bolt or break top. No gas system. Will have to be engraved with proper info eventually. Must be fixed mag after conversion. Do not use a polymer 80%
Thanks, Brother!

I did search for AR Pistol build but found nothing.

Thanks, again.
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  #56  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:53 PM
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^^^ Pis5poor example to use. Firstcruise.
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  #57  
Old 03-14-2017, 2:58 PM
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Can I do a featureless build with a:
1. Fin on the grip
2. Proper Comp
3. Blade butt stock

Is the bullet button or fixed mag required?

and would that allow me to avoid:

1. Fixed Mag
2. Breaking lower and upper

On my way to the recommended thread now.
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  #58  
Old 03-14-2017, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFOD View Post
Can a AR pistol still be legally built in CA?

Will the Inland Arms bolt product work? Along with a 80% AR lower build?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...92&postcount=2
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  #59  
Old 03-14-2017, 3:03 PM
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^^^ That is correct referral better than the newbie. (LOL)
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  #60  
Old 03-14-2017, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Firstcruise79 View Post
Seems like this stirs up more questions than answers. Although it provides a tremendous amount of clarity.

There are still many questions still awaiting legal rendering.
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  #61  
Old 03-14-2017, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFOD View Post
Can I do a featureless build with a:
1. Fin on the grip
2. Proper Comp
3. Blade butt stock

Is the bullet button or fixed mag required?

and would that allow me to avoid:

1. Fixed Mag
2. Breaking lower and upper

On my way to the recommended thread now.
1) hell no
2) sure
3) not a stock

You cannot make an AR pistol featureless because a feature is "magwell outside of pistol grip". Your only options are fixed mag or breaking the upper open.
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  #62  
Old 03-14-2017, 3:22 PM
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I think a fixed mag and an MA loader will be the way to go if you want to build an AR pistol. I finished mine last year but I might go that route rather than registering
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  #63  
Old 03-14-2017, 3:40 PM
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Wasn't the caveat that you can't buy a stripped lower for a pistol build - because the lower must be dros'd as a pistol, and with the various requirements it can't be a single shot and it can't be on the roster. So you would need to start out with an 80% blank, finish it, apply to the state of CA for a serial number, engrave that, then (optionally? advisedly?) register it with the state as a pistol and as an assault weapon if applicable.

This game we play in this state is getting to be like the "12 Days of Christmas" song... the longer it goes on, the more complicated it all gets, except for us, the song never ends and they keep making up new verses constantly.

Now, it should be easy enough to BUY a completed AR-Pistol that comes from the mfr as a single-shot. And then do whatever you want to it.
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  #64  
Old 03-14-2017, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Wasn't the caveat that you can't buy a stripped lower for a pistol build - because the lower must be dros'd as a pistol, and with the various requirements it can't be a single shot and it can't be on the roster. So you would need to start out with an 80% blank, finish it, apply to the state of CA for a serial number, engrave that, then (optionally? advisedly?) register it with the state as a pistol and as an assault weapon if applicable.
Because of long gun registration going into affect on 01-01-2014...

Starting 01-01-2014, unless an exemption is used, a receiver is typically DROS'd as a (category) long gun (subcategory) rifle (subcategory) receiver.

Making a firearm from a "rifle" with a less than 16" barrel length or a less than 26" overall length is a SBR under CA laws.


Currently, there are two AR style pistols listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.


In order to make a "handgun", you would need to use a receiver that was DROS'd as a "handgun" or that is made from an "80% receiver".
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  #65  
Old 04-15-2017, 4:56 PM
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I was looking to do a light weight home defense build.


I was thinking about using the Daniel defense 10.3 upper..

How do you guys feel about polymer 80 lowers ?

Pros / cons , thoughts and suggestions on other lowers , etc.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Thx





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  #66  
Old 04-15-2017, 4:58 PM
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you will have to embed 3.7 ounces of stainless in your 80% polymer by 2018 so use search before you buy. must be fixed mag also. according to some must build your own upper as factory pistol uppers have been test fired as semi autos with sse first.

Last edited by edgerly779; 04-15-2017 at 5:01 PM..
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  #67  
Old 04-15-2017, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
you will have to embed 3.7 ounces of stainless in your 80% polymer by 2018 so use search before you buy. must be fixed mag also. according to some must build your own upper as factory pistol uppers have been test fired as semi autos with sse first.


Do you recommend I just stay away from the polymer lower?

I will do the research on how to embed the steel, but if it's too difficult , I will just go another route..

Thanks for your response
....


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  #68  
Old 04-15-2017, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wdnguyen428 View Post
Do you recommend I just stay away from the polymer lower?
If you intend to serialize it, or shoot it often, or make it bb 2.0 break top- definately avoid polymer.
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  #69  
Old 04-15-2017, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meanrock View Post
If you intend to serialize it, or shoot it often, or make it bb 2.0 break top- definately avoid polymer.


Sorry , I'm a bit new to this...

Bb 2.0 break top, I'm assuming it's bullet button 2.0 , where the upper has to be removed in order to reload the mag?

If my assumption is correct , I plan on using a mag lock along with the cross armory quick pins to make reloading some what faster...

I do plan on taking it to the range to get a feel and understand how it works, only to be ready in the event that I need to defend myself in my home ...

But I can also see myself taking this up as a sport/hobby....

I do enjoy building things so I can see this as a hobby in foreseeable future...

Thanks for your input ...

Any input would be appreciated..




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Old 04-15-2017, 8:30 PM
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I'll stick to aluminum.. thx


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Old 04-15-2017, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meanrock View Post
If you intend to serialize it, or shoot it often, or make it bb 2.0 break top- definately avoid polymer.


Is it recommended to serialize ?

If I use a mag lock system and 80 lower build, am I go to go with out putting on a serial number...

I've done a lot of research but some of the wording can we a bit extensive.


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  #72  
Old 04-15-2017, 9:19 PM
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Default no necrothread something that has out-of-date info

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdnguyen428 View Post
Is it recommended to serialize ?

If I use a mag lock system and 80 lower build, am I go to go with out putting on a serial number...

I've done a lot of research but some of the wording can we a bit extensive.
First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a 0 round mag/sled that is permanently attached to the firearm or a solid magazine, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
^ For rimfire blowback... install a limiter/black behind the bolt carrier group, in order to prevent it from cycling.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.


Second issue... (conversion from exempt handgun to unsafe handgun)

Because of definition changes relating to CA's "home built firearm" laws, it may no longer be legal to convert a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally complaint break-top single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include: [all this complies with Federal requirements]
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)*
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name*
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

*The un-finalized CA DOJ regulations have described Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject (FMBUS) and what is needed for them to be registered.
FMBUS equates to any "home built (80%)" firearm and requires a CA DOJ issued serial number in order to be registered.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
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  #73  
Old 04-15-2017, 9:38 PM
Nor*Cal Nor*Cal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdnguyen428 View Post
I was looking to do a light weight home defense build.
Great info as always from Quiet.

A 223/5.56 AR pistol for home defense is a terrible choice. You better have emergency earmuffs for the entire family in case you ever have to fire it in your home. And don't forget the penetrating factor of that round, it will easily go through a wall or 2.

I don't want to deter you from building one, I did so myself. But you need to give the home defense use some more thought.

And good choice on going with an aluminum lower.
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Old 04-15-2017, 9:50 PM
wdnguyen428 wdnguyen428 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor*Cal View Post
Great info as always from Quiet.

A 223/5.56 AR pistol for home defense is a terrible choice. You better have emergency earmuffs for the entire family in case you ever have to fire it in your home. And don't forget the penetrating factor of that round, it will easily go through a wall or 2.

I don't want to deter you from building one, I did so myself. But you need to give the home defense use some more thought.

And good choice on going with an aluminum lower.


Thx for your input , I appreciate the advice , and don't worry you won't deter me from building one at all.


I have been home invaded as a child and it's not something I would want anyone to experience. So for me , guns and self defense/ home defense only comes naturally to me.

A shot gun or hand gun maybe a better option for home defense but these ar15 pistols are cool. I can see myself building several of ar15 pistols and rifles for different purposes.

There is so much info out there and I'm just looking for a little bit of guidance or push in the rt direction.







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  #75  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdnguyen428 View Post
There is so much info out there and I'm just looking for a little bit of guidance or push in the rt direction.
Read post #72, in order to see what you need to do in order to legally make an AR style pistol in CA.
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  #76  
Old 04-16-2017, 5:55 AM
wdnguyen428 wdnguyen428 is offline
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Third issue... (required markings)



In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.



Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.

Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).



Markings must include: [all this complies with Federal requirements]

1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)*

2) Model

3) Caliber

4) Manufacturer's name*

5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located



Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.

So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.



*The un-finalized CA DOJ regulations have described Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject (FMBUS) and what is needed for them to be registered.

FMBUS equates to any "home built (80%)" firearm and requires a CA DOJ issued serial number in order to be registered.

{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}



If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)] Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]

In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)][/QUOTE]


Found this site to help with this part serialization of the 80% lower..

https://atomicengraving.com/product-...ts/ar15-parts/

Has anyone done any transactions with this website?







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  #77  
Old 04-17-2017, 5:44 PM
uptown uptown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a 0 round mag/sled that is permanently attached to the firearm or a solid magazine, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
^ For rimfire blowback... install a limiter/black behind the bolt carrier group, in order to prevent it from cycling.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.


Second issue... (conversion from exempt handgun to unsafe handgun)

Because of definition changes relating to CA's "home built firearm" laws, it may no longer be legal to convert a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally complaint break-top single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include: [all this complies with Federal requirements]
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)*
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name*
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

*The un-finalized CA DOJ regulations have described Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject (FMBUS) and what is needed for them to be registered.
FMBUS equates to any "home built (80%)" firearm and requires a CA DOJ issued serial number in order to be registered.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]

Would the first and second issue still come into play if it is build with a 80% lower and using a maglock? How would they even go about proving those requirements you listed for DI, piston and blowback? Just wondering.
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  #78  
Old 04-17-2017, 6:54 PM
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Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown View Post
Would the first and second issue still come into play if it is build with a 80% lower and using a maglock? How would they even go about proving those requirements you listed for DI, piston and blowback? Just wondering.
Maglock is for AW issues.

The roster, which is what prevents the manufacture of a semiautomatic handgun, has nothing to do with AW status.
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  #79  
Old 04-18-2017, 7:11 AM
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Without a fixed mag, no way to make AR pistol featureless, so, maglock does render such a weapon as NOT an AW. These issues noted above are to the "illegal weapon" statute. So.. if a person built an 80% pistol back in 2013 and followed the single shot crap and then converted it before the change, how can it be illegal? How would government prove otherwise? Of course it must be engraved prior to 7-1-18.


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  #80  
Old 04-18-2017, 8:56 AM
matt2016 matt2016 is offline
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I just had a thought. How long does voluntary reg for a single-shot pistol take nowadays. Since you need to submit pictures, would it be possible to test the legality of an ARMaglock type device (for any AR to not be an assault weapon) by submitting your registration with a zero-round sled fixed by an ARMaglock device. I mean if it passes registration, then clearly it's a fixed magazine for all purposes is it not?
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