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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 06-29-2011, 8:05 PM
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Default SHTF Scenario 1 - EMP

Let me setup and throw a scenario at you. Tell us how you would respond to it for say the first week.

Scenario
It's last Saturday at around 4PM. You got paid on Friday. You are just leaving the grocery store with two bags full of food for a BBQ/cookout you are having tomorrow with some co-workers. It is a beautiful day with a clear blue sky.

You hear a small Cessna-type plane flying high overhead, probably some guy working on his Pilotís license. At that moment you see a camera-like flash out of your right eye and turn to see what it is. You notice something has happened very very high up in the atmosphere like a blossoming flower. It is no larger than the size of you hand held out at arms length. There is no noise coming from it.



You hear the plane's engine start to sputter and then die completely. You reach down to call 911 on your cell phone only to find it is dead. You run to your vehicle to get your second emergency cell phone only your car wont unlock no matter how many times you push the alarm remote.

You start to realize that everything has just gotten very quiet...no car engine noises, no trains, or AC units running...nothing.

The Scenario starts now...What do you next and over the next few days. Take your time and give it some real thought. If you have scenario rule or caveat questions, post them and I will respond with the answer or more probing questions.

Considerations:
Last Saturday: For the sake of this scenario, last Saturday was literally whatever your last Saturday was as you are reading this. For me, as of the writing of this thread, it was June 25, 2011. Whatever preparations, food, gas, etc. you had on that day is what you have to work with.

Location: For the sake of simplicity, You and your family, roommates, live-ins, renters, etc., were in your neighborhood and not on travel. So those of you traveling last Saturday...you get a break and donít have to walk home across the country . If you normally work on Saturday, you had the day off.

EMP: There is a lot of chatter as to the effect an EMP would have on cars and generators. To simplify, all non-specifically EMP protected electronics and systems were fried. If you have an old vehicle (70s and older), the starter, alternator, and voltage regulator burned up. All other vehicles are toast. Anything connected to phone lines, computers, power lines, antennae, etc., are surge fried. The EMP blew right past any commercial surge protectors unless they are military grade EMP specific class protectors.

Money: How much money did you have in your wallet or purse last Saturday? If you don't know, open it up now...thatís what you have to work with. Also, whatever you may have access to otherwise such as in you safe, coin cup, ashtray, couch. cache, etc. ATMs are dead.

Weapons and Ammo: What do you normally carry on you or in your vehicle if you are doing a quick food run to your local store on a Saturday...thatís what you have to work with.

Water and Natural Gas: The municipal water and gas pumps are dead. the backup generators electronics burned out with the EMP so there is no water pressure.

Enjoy
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Last edited by TheChief; 06-30-2011 at 6:23 AM.. Reason: Added pic
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:18 PM
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...............
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It makes it bigger and longer.

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Old 06-29-2011, 8:21 PM
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Stay at home, normal life. Maybe a hike or two to check on people IWB carry my pistol and just act like a normal guy while on the streets.
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:24 PM
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Voting for Donald Trump is the protest vote against: Keynesian economics, Neocon wars, exporting jobs, open borders, Washington criminal cartel, too big to fail banks and too big to jail pols and banksters.

Cutting off foreign aid to EVERY country and dismantling the police/surveillance state!

Umm yeah!!!!!
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:25 PM
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....been reading a book have you??
When it came out two years ago. Was very entertaining. My wife couldnt finish it
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:32 PM
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What Book????
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:36 PM
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So the scenario is:
Large EMP just took out all electronics nationwide....
I swear to God, if my tivo lost the new episode of Jersey Shore, somebody is gonna pay!

Really...Its a great scenario to ponder. Let me give it some thought and I will repost.
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:47 PM
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Sounds like "lights out - CA edition"
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Str8shutr View Post
So the scenario is:
Large EMP just took out all electronics nationwide....
Your question as to effect and scope cannot be readily determined by you in the scenario. All you have to go on is what your eyes, ears, and current knowledge are telling you...

You only saw one way the hell up in the sky.

Really got to put yourself there at the moment. No access to the internet or phone.

Enjoy
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Old 06-29-2011, 8:59 PM
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very true...ZERO info to go on....
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Old 06-29-2011, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wheels View Post
Sounds like "lights out - CA edition"
I had never heard of that book. Picking one up tomorrow thank you very much!

I was refering to One Second After by William R. Forstchen. Sounds like a similiar topic and situation.
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Old 06-29-2011, 9:10 PM
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I had never heard of that book. Picking one up tomorrow thank you very much!

I was refering to One Second After by William R. Forstchen. Sounds like a similiar topic and situation.

Just finished reading One Second After, best book I've read since "lights out". I'm currently reading "Deep Winter" equally as good.
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Old 06-29-2011, 9:16 PM
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I'd walk home and log in to CalGuns so you guys could tell me what's going on.
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Old 06-29-2011, 9:51 PM
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Being that I read one second after as soon as I had the input you have provided I'd act.

1). A super wal mart is 7 minutes from me by bike, and I keep a few thousand cash tucked away for emergencies. I'd conceal my ppk/s and get my wife on a ride there. A few things we need. 4:15 PM I'm assuming employees will take cash only. Not ghat I don't have some but I'm going to add 2,000 rnds of 22, 250 of 45, and 500 of 223 there. We'll gather some candles, extra lighter fluid, pills of carius kinds, and some bagged soups. I may add to our rice. They sell kiddie carts for bikes there which I don't have so I'd get them.

2). Back home I'd fill the tub, and any clean container with water or have my wife do that as I kick up the BBQ for meet that needs to be cooked. I'd invite 2 neighbors I have over and convince them if the prob.

3). By Friday I pack the bug out by bike gear after eating big all week and head for Nevada leaving about 4 am and settling at my first stop out bt 7 am. We'd travel from 1 am to 7 am there after and arrive at the property in 10 days.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:26 PM
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Ok... I'll bite. I've not read those books (and can't see them on my Kindle anyway since it's fried)

I guess the response would depend greatly on what happened. Even with power/electronics INOP info will trickle out quickly and within a day or so we should have an idea of what happened. EMP...ok. Was it an accident? Terrorist attack? Foriegn assult? Zombie apocolypse kickoff? Prelude to an alien invasion?

Either way I'm a gonna carry on as usual (like it's just another power outage) and probably report to work ASAP.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:40 PM
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Default More then a power outage

In an EMP you lose more then power. Water goes off as soon as tanks are depleted. My city uses gravity feed for pressure so I think we'll have water for some hours maybe a day. Pretty much no vehicles and if you have an old one and are prepared with disconnected electronics a govt type will be trying to confiscate it for " emergency " use asap.

General panic is 36 to 48 hrs out. I'd want to hunker down for that. Then bail. I'm tempted to bail quickly but since bailing is by bike I'd consume what I can at home first.


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Originally Posted by thunderbolt View Post
Ok... I'll bite. I've not read those books (and can't see them on my Kindle anyway since it's fried)

I guess the response would depend greatly on what happened. Even with power/electronics INOP info will trickle out quickly and within a day or so we should have an idea of what happened. EMP...ok. Was it an accident? Terrorist attack? Foriegn assult? Zombie apocolypse kickoff? Prelude to an alien invasion?

Either way I'm a gonna carry on as usual (like it's just another power outage) and probably report to work ASAP.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:54 PM
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I'd stick my arms out in front of me and start moaning "braaaains."
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripon83 View Post
Being that I read one second after as soon as I had the input you have provided I'd act.

1). A super wal mart is 7 minutes from me by bike, and I keep a few thousand cash tucked away for emergencies. I'd conceal my ppk/s and get my wife on a ride there. A few things we need. 4:15 PM I'm assuming employees will take cash only. Not ghat I don't have some but I'm going to add 2,000 rnds of 22, 250 of 45, and 500 of 223 there. We'll gather some candles, extra lighter fluid, pills of carius kinds, and some bagged soups. I may add to our rice. They sell kiddie carts for bikes there which I don't have so I'd get them.

2). Back home I'd fill the tub, and any clean container with water or have my wife do that as I kick up the BBQ for meet that needs to be cooked. I'd invite 2 neighbors I have over and convince them if the prob.

3). By Friday I pack the bug out by bike gear after eating big all week and head for Nevada leaving about 4 am and settling at my first stop out bt 7 am. We'd travel from 1 am to 7 am there after and arrive at the property in 10 days.
When I worked in retail many years ago, if we were unfortunate enough to loose power, we would not finish the transactions. Loss prevention would user customers out of the door and start locking the doors. I am certain that this would happen at a Walmart. What ever we have on hand would be pretty much all we have. Going out could prove deadly.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:03 AM
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get home. period. I wouldnt even try to get some last minute stuff. and yes I do have a 1911 in a locked container even when I go shopping.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:45 AM
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1st off, really cool idea TC.

Last Saturday: spent the day at home rearranging/cleaning my office. In laws were over, kids were in the pool. All in all, 6 people in my house (4 adults + 2 kids).

OK, the market I go to is 1.81 (gmaps-pedometer) miles from my house.
1st I would try to get in touch with my wife at home, make sure things were cool. Can't get at her, no phone, car doesn't work. It would begin to register that SHTF and I need to move. I would load everything from the car, into the shopping cart. Not just the groceries, but everything I have in the car. I would throw my GHB over my shoulder and start hoofing it, with the cart, home.

At home, I would do a quick sweep of the house. Check to make sure that I'm not crazy and S actually did HTF. We have arrowhead water delivered to the house, so at any given time I have from 2-5, 5 gallon jugs of water out front, those would get moved into the house. Dining room table gets cleaned out and turns into the staging area. My gear comes out, gets laid out, and reviewed.
Time for a discussion with the wife specifically, but the adults in general, kids would be sent up stairs. It goes something like this:
"Hon, you know how I've been trying to get us ready for the EOTW, and how you keep thinking I'm crazy. Well the EOTW just started and now we're behind. So here's our future, my way, no questions asked."
wife: "What are you talking about? What's going on?"
In - laws: "What's going on?"
everyone: blah blah blah blah blah blah
me: "No time for this right now. Here's the deal. (Explain what I saw at the market and what I think happened.) I'm going to go door to door, talk to the neighbors and get some more info."

I would strap on my fixed blade, my collapsible baton, grab my PPKs (loaded) and my extra clip. Time for a neighborhood check, make sure my neighborhood (and therefor my family) are safe. My parents live about 14 miles away. Once I'm satisfied that my family and neighborhood are safe (for the time being), I would get my camelback ready, load it with some essentials, and bike to my parents house. Check on them, give them the run down. Problem with them is they are old and have physical issues. Getting them out and to safety/my house isn't really an option.

Friend/co-worker lives around the corner. We have had discussions about EOTW. Swing by his place, make sure his family is ok (wife + 3kids). Get them over to my house, with his prep gear, and family. He is a gear head, biker (both motor and foot powered). Get that stuff over to my house as well.

OK, back to my place. There goes Saturday. Sunday, more of the same. My brother (his wife, son and newborn twins) live in the SFV, about 30-35m from us. I would try to get them and check on them. Brother in law is around the corner from them. Same routine there. Tell them to get what they can, and huddle together, or hoof it to my place for more of a centralized grouping of the family.

Monday/Tuesday: family staying put. Some more info gathering and working with the neighbors. Possibly a trip to Walmart, about 6.8 miles 1 way. See if they are open for business, and what I can get to help out. (I have friends and family on the way, swing by their places and check on them too. Tell them what I think and invite them to my place. They would have to come ready and willing to work.)

I used to work at a market, during the 94 quake. We were open for business the day after, running on calculators with pads & pencils, accepting cash. Hopefully Wally would be doing the same thing.

Wednesday: More of the same, staying put, planning ahead.
Thursday: I'm guessing either we have some answers or panic mode is setting in. Need to hook up with some friends and make sure we can be secure.
Friday: More of the same. Between the 3-4 houses of rummaging we would have done, we should still be ok with food. Water might begin to be an issue.
Saturday: 1 week since d-day. Time to start thinking longterm.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:41 AM
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Nothing at all will change for me. In fact I might not even notice for a while. Id just have to drive my Bug and my 55 chevy truck...
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:04 PM
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Nothing at all will change for me. In fact I might not even notice for a while. Id just have to drive my Bug and my 55 chevy truck...
You mean after replacing the starters and alternator/generators right? Do you happen to have a spare set of those lying around?

Older vehicles are actually more vulnerable to a pulse then newer ones that have been hardened over the years for durability purposes.

That being said, with your older vehicles, as long as you have a good battery and it is stick, you could jump start it, and drive it home on nothing but the battery assuming you don't run your headlights or other things that draw power and drain the battery. That way the battery is only supplying power to the coil. hmm...assuming the coil didnt fry too in which case, sorry charlie, your walking!
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
You mean after replacing the starters and alternator/generators right? Do you happen to have a spare set of those lying around?

Older vehicles are actually more vulnerable to a pulse then newer ones that have been hardened over the years for durability purposes.

That being said, with your older vehicles, as long as you have a good battery and it is stick, you could jump start it, and drive it home on nothing but the battery assuming you don't run your headlights or other things that draw power and drain the battery. That way the battery is only supplying power to the coil. hmm...assuming the coil didnt fry too in which case, sorry charlie, your walking!
EMP cant kill a generator. Or a starter. And the VW has a magneto. Cant kill that either.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:14 PM
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Wow, soo much EMP Hollywoodisms in here. The kind of EMP needed to damage an alternator's windings would also kill a human exposed to so intense a electromagnetic field. Non-hardened solid state electronics are vulnerable for certain as even small induced currents can damage them (ESD, electrostatic discharge).

I have seen tests run where EMP was fairly powerful and all it did was temporarily disable a modern car. As in turn it off and back on again and you were back to working order. Older cars were completely unaffected and continued normal operation.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
Wow, soo much EMP Hollywoodisms in here. ...

I have seen tests run where EMP was fairly powerful and all it did was temporarily disable a modern car. As in turn it off and back on again and you were back to working order. Older cars were completely unaffected and continued normal operation.
Stop it. You're ruining the "fun".

The more you actually know about EMP, the less your fear any possibility of it actually happening. The middle-ground of self-appointed "experts" tend to be people without sufficiently broad technical expertise to support their conclusions.

"Nuclear explosions produce EMP effects". That's about as much as most people understand the issue. Creating an EMP event which would affect even most of the North American continent is a GIANT systems-engineering problem. It's not nearly so easy as "pulling a nuke up into San Diego" or any of the various scenarios often presented. Seriously ... the engineering problem is only slight less difficult than a manned lunar mission. I don't see it happening.

It's a lot like Zombies though ... so who am I to talk (except that I don't take the "Zombie threat" seriously) ? Plan for EMP and Zombies ... you're pretty well equipped for anything else.
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Old 06-30-2011, 1:24 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I spent some time before I created this thread doing EMP research from available literature, both fiction and scientific. I made the call to setup a worst case scenario wherein the burst was so powerful, it fried everything. In reality, this would not be the case. But that would not be as much fun nor would it get people's "oh shat" juices flowing". Call it dramatic license.

Later in the thread I will post a supported and referenced writeup on EMPs and their predicted real world effects. For now, sit back and enjoy the show. Let reality slide just a bit for now

On a side note, if you have a scientific background and are very knowledgable on EMPs, and are willing to help with the writeup, drop me a line and we can work on it together.

Enjoy and happy Prepping
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Old 06-30-2011, 1:34 PM
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For those of you listing books that like this post apocalyptic survival genre like I do (in no order and some better than others):

-dies the fire (many book series)
-The Road
-the postman
-ill wind
-earth abides
-future eden (3 book series)
-eternity road
-natures end
-a gift upon the shore
-the new madrid run
-on the beach
-alas, babylon
-omega man
-the day after tomorrow
-canticle for leibowitz
-the last ship
-one second after
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Old 06-30-2011, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
Stop it. You're ruining the "fun".

The more you actually know about EMP, the less your fear any possibility of it actually happening. The middle-ground of self-appointed "experts" tend to be people without sufficiently broad technical expertise to support their conclusions.

"Nuclear explosions produce EMP effects". That's about as much as most people understand the issue. Creating an EMP event which would affect even most of the North American continent is a GIANT systems-engineering problem. It's not nearly so easy as "pulling a nuke up into San Diego" or any of the various scenarios often presented. Seriously ... the engineering problem is only slight less difficult than a manned lunar mission. I don't see it happening.
It's a lot like Zombies though ... so who am I to talk (except that I don't take the "Zombie threat" seriously) ? Plan for EMP and Zombies ... you're pretty well equipped for anything else.



Personally, I prefer zombies as there are actual microorganisms that indeed can "take control" of a living host. Then again, if I want to see zombies I just look outside. Fear and Ignorance are a powerful zombification virus that has infected this once great nation. People cease to think and only quote rhetoric.. (actually sounds like a book I read called Book of the New Sun), that makes them zombies in my book. Such people are a grave and dangerous threat. Lets have a Zombie SHTF THREAD!

I understand that you are trying to play a Worst Case scenario here but I have too much education in EE. Wish I could participate, we need to find a topic I am ignorant on.
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Old 06-30-2011, 2:16 PM
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Everything I do is within easy walking distance of my home. If upon looking around, cars weren't starting, power was out, cell phones didn't even power up, let alone receive a signal, I'd waltz right back into the grocery store and try to load up on a few things like cooking oils and lipid-based products that don't have the 10-30 year shelf life.

I'd load up a shopping cart or two with whatever I had the cash to pay with (hint, I despise debt, bankers, banking systems, moral hazard and ratings agencies soooooooo....I'd prolly have enough cash to fill up a couple of grocery carts with bulk cooking oil and stuff). If they didn't want to take my cash, I might be inclined to just waltz the f*** out of there anyhow so long as armed security didn't prevent me. If pandemonium ensued, I'd probably fill the carts to the brim. I'd haul the groceries home in the shopping carts- notice I said carts, plural. My usual transportation would probably rot for the rest of eternity in that parking lot. I'd hope not, but I'd assume an EMP strike would result in mushroom clouds sprouting globally: given that the nuclear winter scenario has not been discredited and given the precarious nature of the global population and ecosystem function, I wouldn't take chances.

I'd push the shopping cart or two home and lock the gate behind me. I'd likely be armed with nothing more than a 3" folder. I might have a firearm if there was one in my car....in today's social climate of mid 2011, that is not likely.

Once home I'd assess my electronics inventory: eotechs, lasers, NV, thermal imagers, photovoltaic panels, shortwave radios, power supplies, battery chargers, inverters...the usual toys that are not connected to the grid and are stored in metal boxes.

I'd stay put and just listen.....all day and all night. Lights would be off. Oh, I could still turn mine on, it just would not be advised. Maybe a Zenith Transoceanic 600 for news or a more modern energy efficient shortwave radio might be on...one that has spent its life in a faraday box waiting for this moment. I'd observe the neighbors, listen for the distant roar of traffic on the freeway, the drone of aircraft above, car alarms etc. If that noise is absent, then it is EOTFW and in 36 to 48 hours, neighbors will become feral. I figure all dogs and cats will get eaten, then small birds like sparrows and pigoeons. I'd listen for the characteristic noises of a suburban neighborhood and I'd expect to hear fewer and fewer dogs barking each night, fewer and fewer crows and sparrows calling by day and fewer and fewer people screaming and bawling and panicking as the days wear on.

I might start discreetly putting plans in place to ensure my family's survival when 99%+ of everyone else is expected to die off. At this point, discussion of things on a public forum ceases and only deep students of history might deduce what comes next.

My biggest concern is fire-over and above looters and feral neighbors even. I've gas and a chainsaw. Any trees that present a fire hazard to my house get cut down once its clear that it's a WROL situation and I smell smoke. In LA a firestorm could burn from San Berdoo to Redondo Beach if the Santa Anas are blowing: I'll expect it at some point: the entire LA-San Diego-Tijiana megalopolis to burn to the ground- In the Fall when everything is dry and the Santa Anas are howling and some idjit starts a fire to cook a rat somewhere.

I'll be stuck here so as time wears on, I'd have to resume gardening and that means water catchement and a lot of it...Damming low points, plugging up storm drains, taking rubble from buildings and repurposing it to direct rainfall where i can utilize it would all be on the "to do list" before the first winter rains showed up. I'd try and scavenge fruit trees or propagate what I have and strategically locate them where they'd get little competition from other plants and have plenty of rainfall funneled to them...something like lithic mulching. I'd expand my vegetable garden into what's left of neighboring parcels where applicable...behind hedges and fences for OPSEC. After the initial preps are used up, one had best get used to spending the rest of their life as a subsistence farmer.
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Old 06-30-2011, 2:33 PM
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Regardless of the yield, altitude, and magnitude of the detonation you say ALL electronics are fried. This is why I hate these "what if" scenarios. Ok so were back in the 16th century, to answer your question we need to know why.

Terrorist attack/Accident - Simple. Stay put and wait for the power to come back on. I have enough supplies to last me and mine a good while and barring any mythical Road warrior bands of maurauders, well I have enough ammo too.

Foriegn/Alien/Zombie Invasion - Steal an aircraft from the airport and evac the family to my dad's place in BFE Nevada and return to kick some foriegn alien zombie butt. Or more realisticly get killed on my way to the forward rally point as I've been a civilian too long.

I'm pretty sure the Magnetos in airplanes are GTG as is Joewy's VW.
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Old 06-30-2011, 3:59 PM
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For those of you listing books that like this post apocalyptic survival genre like I do (in no order and some better than others):

-dies the fire (many book series)
-The Road
-the postman
-ill wind
-earth abides
-future eden (3 book series)
-eternity road
-natures end
-a gift upon the shore
-the new madrid run
-on the beach
-alas, babylon
-omega man
-the day after tomorrow
-canticle for leibowitz
-the last ship
-one second after
Add one of the classics; Lucifer's Hammer and a dime-store series called Death Lands.
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Old 06-30-2011, 4:54 PM
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I've been preparing. My scenerio is earthquake/civil unrest mostly. My business is about 5 miles from my house. My folks live about 12 miles from my house (my work is about halfway inbetween work and folks)

I've been buying supplies all this year storing them at work. While my house is not very defensible, my work is. Freestanding building. Cinderblock and concrete construction, interior roof access, half the roof has a 2 foot concrete"Lip" at the roofline, etc. The only thing I haven't wrapped up at work is I need to still get about 10-15 sheets of 1/2" plywood. With those I could drill through the windows and the two metal framed glass doors and through bolt them for added protection from someone being able to just bust the glass to get in.

So far I have over 200 gallons of sealed water, and enough food for 6 people for 30 days. I have about 800 rounds of 5.56, and a compact .45 with 2 mags. I've also boxed up and stored other essentials there such as...I store my camping equipment there. Lanterns, mantels, stoves, fuel, utensils, baggies, toothbrushes, etc, etc. I also have my assistant, her child and he recently ex marine husband who are like minded and will be humping to my location.

Now my plan is this.

I keep a comprehensive BOB and INCH bag at my house next to my gun safe. In the event of earthquake or fire..I can grab my bedside gun and run. Grab my BOB and run outside. Hell, I can do it naked if the house if falling down. I have shoes and clothes in my BOB I can get dressed with.

I have a motorcycle at work. Always a full (ish) tank. I also have a motorcycle at home. In the event of a major situation, the streets will likely be difficult or impossible to drive on with a car.

My plan is that if I'm at home...I can use my motorcyle to get to my work. To transport supplies from my house to work. To pick up my folks and girlfriend and kids and transport whoever I need to, to my work. I have a suburban as well with a 44 gallon tanks that I can siphon out of as well. So I usually have enough gas available for well over 1000 miles of motorcycle travel. Most scenerios take at the very least a couple of days before people get REALLY bad so that "should" be enough time to get situated.

If I'am at work when things go down...I have the compact .45 and the motorcycle there to run to my home to get more guns and more ammo. I could transport ALL of my guns and 1000's of rounds of ammo to my work in the matter of 3 or 4 trips at most.

I "think" I've got it almost covered (as well as possible) to be able to survive for up to a month. More than that and I suspect that it's just more than I can prepare for.

Last edited by TurboChrisB; 06-30-2011 at 5:00 PM..
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Old 06-30-2011, 5:27 PM
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Unless you can dilligently defend all sides of that commercial building, all it takes in one guy with a Molitov Cocktail to kill you and everyone else there.

Just saying..
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Old 06-30-2011, 5:42 PM
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Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind. The upside is cinderblock and concrete don't burn easily! You could throw burning material against it all day long...wouldn't do a thing. Now, once I've bolted plywood over some glass....that would burn. But I figure with multiple adult males with firearms experience the WORST case scenerio is that we're on the roof watching in shifts. And If it's THAT bad a few dead bodies in the parking lot might be a pretty awesome deterrent.
All in all, I think it's better to be fortified in a reasonably defensible postion then on the street when it's THAT bad. Also from inside with a ladder we can go from inside to on the roof in about 30 seconds.

Last edited by TurboChrisB; 06-30-2011 at 5:45 PM..
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Old 06-30-2011, 5:57 PM
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Interesting. I never thought about being at work but its not unlikely. I keep an emergency bag in my trunk. I wouldnt be completely unprepared, but surely not well enough.

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Old 06-30-2011, 5:59 PM
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Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind. The upside is cinderblock and concrete don't burn easily! You could throw burning material against it all day long...wouldn't do a thing. Now, once I've bolted plywood over some glass....that would burn. But I figure with multiple adult males with firearms experience the WORST case scenerio is that we're on the roof watching in shifts. And If it's THAT bad a few dead bodies in the parking lot might be a pretty awesome deterrent.
All in all, I think it's better to be fortified in a reasonably defensible postion then on the street when it's THAT bad. Also from inside with a ladder we can go from inside to on the roof in about 30 seconds.
Its the roof that burns

I sugest you go to youtube and watch video of the LA riots.
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Old 06-30-2011, 6:21 PM
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We've (my friends/co-workers) have thought about taking over our facility. Rectangular commercial building that was built turn of the century. It has been built to withstand a 7.5 quake.

It has a fully stocked cafeteria, showers, bathrooms, plenty o space, tools, equipment. It even has a 25K diesel generator. Warehouse is stocked with 5 gallon water bottles.

Problem is, it's in the middle of open space, it has lots of windows. Once those windows are breached, everything inside the building is flammable.
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Old 06-30-2011, 8:15 PM
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Yeah, well, a tornado could come and blow it down too! It would take more than a small puddle of gas to set the roof on fire as asphalt roofs have excellent fire resistance. Besides, if someone is attacking my position..on the roof is where we'll be. You wouldn't get a chance to throw a second one..that's for sure. And watching the riots video would only bolster my opinion. Remember the koreans on top of their building? There building DIDN'T burn.

So, you gotta better plan?


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Its the roof that burns

I sugest you go to youtube and watch video of the LA riots.
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Old 06-30-2011, 8:41 PM
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Wow, soo much EMP Hollywoodisms in here. The kind of EMP needed to damage an alternator's windings would also kill a human exposed to so intense a electromagnetic field. Non-hardened solid state electronics are vulnerable for certain as even small induced currents can damage them (ESD, electrostatic discharge).

I have seen tests run where EMP was fairly powerful and all it did was temporarily disable a modern car. As in turn it off and back on again and you were back to working order. Older cars were completely unaffected and continued normal operation.
I agree, you can't destroy a winding like in a starter, or alternator with out causeing any human suffering
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Old 06-30-2011, 8:45 PM
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Yeah, well, a tornado could come and blow it down too! It would take more than a small puddle of gas to set the roof on fire as asphalt roofs have excellent fire resistance. Besides, if someone is attacking my position..on the roof is where we'll be. You wouldn't get a chance to throw a second one..that's for sure. And watching the riots video would only bolster my opinion. Remember the koreans on top of their building? There building DIDN'T burn.

So, you gotta better plan?

Yes, MOVE!

Just keep a lookout. And if you think that that oilbased, Tarlike roofing material wont burn.... Well, Ok. Watch the Malibu fires of a few years ago where just sparks landing on the roofs of those multimillion dollar homes with flat roofs did to those houses.
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