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#241
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#243
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Government agencies usually take a while (my guess would be 90-120 days from submission) since they have a "chain of command" they have to go through, especially when it is something like this. You can bet the Anti's are trying to find every way possible to "weasel" their way out of this one!
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#244
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7x57
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What do you need guns for if you are going to send your children, seven hours a day, 180 days a year to government schools? What do you need the guns for at that point?-- R. C. Sproul, Jr. (unconfirmed) |
#245
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7x57: If you move to the frying pan, you tend to notice that you're the frog... -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#246
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7x57
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What do you need guns for if you are going to send your children, seven hours a day, 180 days a year to government schools? What do you need the guns for at that point?-- R. C. Sproul, Jr. (unconfirmed) |
#247
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This is all well and good, and certainly necessary, but I hope we don't loose sight of the big picture. Arguing over the minutia of a rule or reg is just that, minute. While necessary, I think it might not be a bad idea to ask the big questions first, like; "How is this any of your business?" I still haven't heard a really good answer for that one. Has anyone?
Last edited by NickM1; 03-27-2009 at 4:06 PM.. Reason: I wanted to make sense. |
#248
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#249
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#250
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#251
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Your foundation analogy isn't very apt actually.
We want to box them in because each decision that goes our way limits their ability to restrict us further in the future. Also, it's a heck of a lot easier to destroy a law that is clearly unconstitutionally enforced even if it were not a Second Amendment violation too. Finally, which would you rather have. Incremental progress that lets you own and use more firearms while we build for the bigger strikes or would you like to wait years and years for a grand slam (that might not come without boxing the antigun side in. Don't forget that the California courts are generally hostile to us... -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#252
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???
what about using flash cards???
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#253
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What do you need guns for if you are going to send your children, seven hours a day, 180 days a year to government schools? What do you need the guns for at that point?-- R. C. Sproul, Jr. (unconfirmed) |
#254
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engineer = flow chart
MBA = powerpoint |
#255
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Programmer = flowchart
Industrial Engineer = blueprint specs Electrical Engineer = schematic diagram MBA = powerpoint Executives = pretty pictures |
#256
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Instrument/Controls Engineer = P&ID
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#257
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Everybody knows programmers make the flowchart after they write the code.
On second thought, that's much closer to the way legislation really goes than I had meant to portray!
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#258
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I'm unsure how BoF could claim the "capacity to accept" when a fixed magazine is in place - unless they argue that once the latch is maniupulated, the rifle then "becomes capable" of accepting a magazine. But since it requires tools to remove the existing magazine, that magazine is fixed as per prior rulings. Thus, to argue that once the magazine has been removed - for servicing, reloading or unloading - the rifle can now "accept a detachable magazine" fails the logic test. Once the magazine is inserted and properly locked into place, it becomes "fixed" in place, requiring the tool to remove it. |
#259
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- Ben Cannon. Chairman, CEO - GPal, Inc.™ CoFounder - GeoVario™, LLC. - the hosting company that brings you Calguns™ Postings are my own, and are not formal positions of any other entity, or legal advice. |
#260
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Well, that was a riveting hour and a half of my time reading and digesting all of this.
Thanks to CGF, I appreciate what you all do not just for the now, but for the rights of my children. |
#261
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We're about 2 weeks away from the next major milestone on this.
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#263
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Sooooooooooooo.... ?
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#264
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I must have miscounted the 60 days. The petition is still pending so it's likely to be published one way or the other by next Friday (May 1.)
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#266
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Gene... here's their determination. It was "published" on the 27th. Please tell me that this isn't the one you were waiting for...
http://www.oal.ca.gov/pdfs/determina...ination_10.pdf |
#267
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#269
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bummer
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Google Map of OLL Dealers List of CA-friendly Manufacturers, Dealers, Middlemen, and Magazine rebuild kit dealers Click me-->So you're a n00b and you want to build an AR? <--Click me This post is based on actual events. Some facts may be altered for dramatic purposes. All posts are pure opinion. All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be construed. |
#271
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What does this letter mean? Is there now two laws/regulations regarding a detachable magazine? One basically saying using a tool to detach a magazine is ok, the other saying different? Sorry if I didn't get it right, please explain.
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If the future is looking dark...WE'RE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO SHINE...If there's no one in control...WE'RE THE ONES WHO DRAW THE LINE...Though we live in trying times...WE'RE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO TRY...Though we know that time has wings...WE'RE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO FLY...by Neil Peart "Everyday Glory" |
#272
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Your bet would have been mooted.
The claim is that it's not an underground regulation. The best part is that OAL opines that the law is "unclear" and "unable to declare ... legal or illegal." Think that through and thank the OAL. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#273
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So OAL bows out because the "capacity to accept" is not a regulation. Is OAL basically saying that DOJ's "capicity to accept" letter is irrelevant, non-binding, or doesn't really say anything new? That's the way it reads.
Still seems to me that per 12276.1 an OLL with BB or similar mechanism that requires a tool to remove a magazine cannot accept anything "detachable" unless the receiver was taken apart and rebuilt with a mag release installed. Any legal minds want to weigh in? |
#274
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OAL's response changes nothing about the legal interpretation of "detachable magazine."
OAL's argument is that Alison was so inept as to actually say nothing in her letter. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#275
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Thanks, now I feel vindicated. |
#276
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I love that broad....
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Rest in Peace - Andrew Breitbart. A true student of Alinsky. 90% of winning is simply showing up. "Let's not lose sight of how much we reduced our carbon footprint by telecommuting this protest." 383green NRA Benefactor Member |
#277
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I figured that you'd be here with the spin that this it's actually helpful that OAL decided that DOJ did not "interpret" the assault weapon law by observing that the law was open to interpretation when it comes to semi-automatic, centerfire rifles with Bullet Button or Prince 50 devices. You really couldn't lose either way: either it's an underground regulation, or it's not an underground regulation because the law is unclear and this is what you really wanted all along. Well done! Anyway, I don't think the "lack of clarity" in the assault weapon law, as applied to Bullet Button or Prince 50 rifles, gets you what you think it does.
Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 04-30-2009 at 6:08 AM.. |
#278
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The OAL letter affirms that it is an open question whether a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with a Bullet Button or Prince 50 device has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. DOJ did not come down on one side or the other so OAL said there was no "interpretation" for purposes of the underground regulation challenge. The letter doesn't validate the literal construction of 5469(a) argument...except maybe by repeating the flawed analysis in the DOJ letter. I think they did a favor by not issuing a more thoughtful and thorough determination.
Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 04-30-2009 at 6:08 AM.. |
#279
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Can somebody clarify who has the authority to legally interpret "detachable magazine"?
From everything I can tell following these threads, DOJ is not taking a stance and the only way to figure out if it's legal or not is to go to the range, drop a magazine w/a tool & bullet button, get arrested, and then see if the local DA will prosecute or not. Gene - you had mentioned that there have been a few recent arrests, but no prosectutions. Can you give any additional information indicating if the individuals were arrested at a range, or if they were stopped for a traffic violation and then arrested? |
#280
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If your read the petition it is in there
It is defined by 11 CCR Section 5469: Quote:
I think if you go to the OLL FAQ or search there are some "how not to get arrested" sections. Last edited by rkt88edmo; 04-30-2009 at 7:28 AM.. |
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