Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:14 AM
Shellshocker66's Avatar
Shellshocker66 Shellshocker66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,774
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default Saiga rifle lube spots?

So just picked up my new 7.62x39 rifle from Sacramento Black Rifle, tore it down this morning and gave it a cleaning and started looking for lube references in the book (not the best owners manuals), then went in search of some online references and didn't really find anything other then people asking if they should lube the gas tube.

So I took my best guess and lubed the bolt and rails. Did I miss any other important part. I'm hoping not because I discovered that there are some sharp little edges on those Russian guns!
__________________
"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." --Susan B. Anthony



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:53 AM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellshocker66 View Post
So just picked up my new 7.62x39 rifle from Sacramento Black Rifle, tore it down this morning and gave it a cleaning and started looking for lube references in the book (not the best owners manuals), then went in search of some online references and didn't really find anything other then people asking if they should lube the gas tube.

So I took my best guess and lubed the bolt and rails. Did I miss any other important part. I'm hoping not because I discovered that there are some sharp little edges on those Russian guns!
The design is unfussy, but if you want to take care of something that field expedient methods involve urinating on or through it to "clean it" you can go the distance and treat like a proper firearm if you feel so inclined. Most folks have at least some automotive consumables like solvents, oils and greases around, you'll be pleased to know most of this is the same stuff that the gun industry uses in repackaged, sometimes scented forms at 10 times the price. Read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) on your favorite gun oil, grease or solvent and while you can't often derive the exact formulation, you'll see the rough proportions of active ingredient to "filler" and in many cases you can find or make your own "miracle lube" or "miracle solvent" with that same info. In fact, this is where the formulation for the many versions of the home-made "Ed's Red" came from - the superior product isn't always the most expensive. I mixed a gallon up 5 years ago and I haven't managed to use more than a half-pint yet, and most of that was spilled.

Some automotive high temp moly lube and some quality gun oil (CLP, Balistol, Burkes or any of the formulations of Ed's Red with little or no ammonia), or even just regular motor oil, 3-in-1, or transmission fluid will do the trick in the following spots, in no particular order:

1) Oil the FCG and selector switch pivot/axis points - hand pump spray bottles with a fine mist work great here, wipe off any excess or it will attract dust and grime you can feel in the action (though most AK owners don't care, I'm just fussy). I've also been playing with dry lube on the FCG recently, but not enough time with it to recommend it yet
2) grease the rails and also the bolt carrier slot where the bolt rides and locks into the barrel trunnion - a thin glaze, don't blob it on, use a business card or plastic knife to smooth it
3) Oil the bolt near the extractor and firing pin - use an oil moistened rag rather than drizzling it on like it's salad dressing
4) Lightly oil the recoil/action spring as a corrosion preventative.

If kept in long term storage lightly spray the inside and outside of the receiver and all exposed external metal parts, wipe excess and throw in some fresh silica gel packs, seal in a plastic wrap and change out any silica packs in the gun case or solid cored locking "gun closet". For old, cherished and well-worn warhorses, the alternative storage preparation procedure is to urinate on the weapon, spit twice for good measure and slam the door. It may be rusted the next time you check on it but it will work just fine when you get around to waking it from hibernation with a few stiff kicks along the charging handle to break the action free followed by a few bangs against a solid nearby wall or floor to dislodge any shingles of rust slowing it down.

As a reminder, DO NOT grease or oil the gas block, gas piston, gas tube or anything with the term "gas" in it - bad juju and you'll be looking at a real mess that did nothing useful for the weapon prior to being cremated during firing.

Some folks go way overboard and grease things that should not be greased or use grease by the ounce on every surface. Pretend that half-ounce tube of grease is the last one on the planet with dabs so tiny its just enough to feel on a fingertip and that's probably the right amount. If you have a gallon of Ed's Red however, feel free to use as much as you need, it will probably last a normal lifetime if you keep your hands, eyes and lungs clear of it's caustic fumes and effects.The typical Ed's Red formulation with 50% ATF and 50% Acetone eats most carbon deposits aggressively (but does little for copper, you need some 10% ammonia for that) but also eats most plastics, many wood finishes, human skin and lung linings. Be careful.

http://guns.wolfcrews.com/ak47/cleaning/default.htm

Good luck,

R

Last edited by Richard Erichsen; 09-29-2011 at 1:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-29-2011, 9:09 AM
The Virus The Virus is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,135
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I thought all you had to do was urinate on it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-29-2011, 9:12 AM
ns3v3n's Avatar
ns3v3n ns3v3n is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,535
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
I thought all you had to do was urinate on it.
That's after you shoot it

Just lube down all the contact moving parts, if you want, put a thin layer of lube on the piston as well, and swab a patch through the barrel with a little bit of lube. Then, shoot the hell out of it. If you shoot corrosive ammo, you need to clean it everytime after.
__________________
The stuff that goes boom.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-29-2011, 9:21 AM
NorCalK9.com's Avatar
NorCalK9.com NorCalK9.com is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 3,967
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

I use Royal Purple motor oil from my mustang. Ill clean it once in a great while then lightly rub Royal Purple on moving parts not gas piston though.
__________________
K.N.P.V. line malinois.
Like my AR but LOVE myAK
https://m.facebook.com/NorCal-K-9-137536682986716/
Our dogs bite
Malinois n Dutch shep pups available all ages Working homes only.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-29-2011, 9:24 AM
Shellshocker66's Avatar
Shellshocker66 Shellshocker66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,774
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
I thought all you had to do was urinate on it.

I don't even want to think of how I would "urinate" on my new rifle, get one of those female funnel cups I guess? I'm jealous you boys can stand and hit anything you want

I think I got the important stuff from reading Richard's post. Just forgot to put some oil under the safety selector which I remember as I was coming back from the store.

Thank you!
__________________
"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." --Susan B. Anthony



Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-29-2011, 9:50 AM
m03's Avatar
m03 m03 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,915
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
As a reminder, DO NOT grease or oil the gas block, gas piston, gas tube or anything with the term "gas" in it - bad juju and you'll be looking at a real mess that did nothing useful for the weapon prior to being cremated during firing.
Nonsense. How else are we to get that neat plume of smoke to roll off of it during shooting if we don't oil the gas tube
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:09 AM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellshocker66 View Post
I don't even want to think of how I would "urinate" on my new rifle, get one of those female funnel cups I guess? I'm jealous you boys can stand and hit anything you want

I think I got the important stuff from reading Richard's post. Just forgot to put some oil under the safety selector which I remember as I was coming back from the store.

Thank you!
You will never fully understand the awesomeness of being able to pee on stuff easily.

As for the AK....I grease the rails, lube the bolt, and a drop on the FCG.
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:24 AM
hcbr's Avatar
hcbr hcbr is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,555
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

LOL , i like how this thread has turned into a conversation of marking your gun with your pee and lubing you gun hahah
__________________
Be the change that you wish to see in the world.
Mahatma Gandhi

"A bullet sounds the same in every language..."
Stewie Griffin (Family Guy Episode: Stewie Griffin: The Untold Story 2005)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-29-2011, 11:25 AM
Shellshocker66's Avatar
Shellshocker66 Shellshocker66 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,774
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcbr View Post
LOL , i like how this thread has turned into a conversation of marking your gun with your pee and lubing you gun hahah
LOL, yeah I like the lube part, but think I will refrain from the golden showers urinating on my rifle
__________________
"I declare to you that woman must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself, and there I take my stand." --Susan B. Anthony



Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:21 PM
tujungatoes's Avatar
tujungatoes tujungatoes is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LA/SFV
Posts: 7,964
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Some good advive already. I generally follow the rule of "If it slides grease it. If it rolls oil it" seems to work on most things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellshocker66 View Post
I'm jealous you boys can stand and hit anything you want
I don't know about "anything". It's not exactly a minute of angle type weapon...and the wandering zero can be irritating.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Elky View Post
If your a man who wears white sunglasses, your probably a douche bag
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I've been know to cross dress and go the other way at certain events.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:22 PM
chead's Avatar
chead chead is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,045
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Remove dustcover, spray CLP, replace dustcover, shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:56 PM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
I thought all you had to do was urinate on it.
The best response I've seen to this so far was on another forum: "Does it have to be YOUR urine?"

AK owners are a breed of their own
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:58 PM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
Some good advive already. I generally follow the rule of "If it slides grease it. If it rolls oil it" seems to work on most things.

I don't know about "anything". It's not exactly a minute of angle type weapon...and the wandering zero can be irritating.
That's a great way to remember what goes where, assuming you lavish such detailed attention on the weapon rather than resorting to "expedient body fluid cleaning procedure #1"

R
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-29-2011, 2:05 PM
smle-man's Avatar
smle-man smle-man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 6,846
iTrader: 102 / 100%
Default

A dab of rifle grease in both bolt locking recesses, a dab on the cam for the bolt in the carrier, a thin sheen on the rails for the carrier and a dab on the hammer where the carrier rides over it. A patch with lightly coated with break free pulled through the bore and a lightly lubed patch wiped around the chamber. Store muzzle down.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-29-2011, 4:45 PM
Homebrew2 Homebrew2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dunlap, Commifornistan
Posts: 347
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellshocker66 View Post
... I discovered that there are some sharp little edges on those Russian guns!
Unless it's taboo in the Saiga world, you could use a mechanics stone or emery cloth to "break" those sharp edges next time you have it apart
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-29-2011, 6:28 PM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrew2 View Post
Unless it's taboo in the Saiga world, you could use a mechanics stone or emery cloth to "break" those sharp edges next time you have it apart
very taboo


Gabe Suarez said it best, and I paraphrase:

"If you find it uncomfortable, maybe you're just not tough enough"
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-29-2011, 6:30 PM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
The best response I've seen to this so far was on another forum: "Does it have to be YOUR urine?"

AK owners are a breed of their own
hah, yea. My friends with all there AR's just dont get it.
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-29-2011, 6:59 PM
stix213's Avatar
stix213 stix213 is offline
AKA: Joe Censored
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 16,566
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Once you've shot it a few times, it will be obvious what needs to be oiled up. Basically anything that is showing slight contact wear.

Also, oiling these things is practically optional. Don't over think the maintenance on a Saiga rifle. This isn't some AR that needs to be baby'd (j/k AR peeps )
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:34 PM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
very taboo


Gabe Suarez said it best, and I paraphrase:

"If you find it uncomfortable, maybe you're just not tough enough"
Gabe probably has hands like shoeleather, I'd jump for the stone and jewelers file method of "dehorning" the interior, unless sheet metal cuts are sexy again.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:43 PM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
Gabe probably has hands like shoeleather, I'd jump for the stone and jewelers file method of "dehorning" the interior, unless sheet metal cuts are sexy again.
True. I really havent nailed myself with my AK yet.
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:43 PM
MrPlink's Avatar
MrPlink MrPlink is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portland / East Bay
Posts: 12,537
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

They actually run fine dry. They should anyways. Rate of wear would def be increased though.

When my buddy got his first AK pattern I went to the range with him to sight it in. Turns out he forgot to lube at all (ask me about the time he did this with his first AR) After a couple spark showers shooting out of the action because of it being bone dry it ran like any other AK.
__________________
The California Moderate Centrist Militia member in exile

disclaimer:
everything I post is for arguendo and entertainment purposes only, and should not be construed to be legal advice
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:44 PM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
They actually run fine dry. They should anyways. Rate of wear would def be increased though.

When my buddy got his first AK pattern I went to the range with him to sight it in. Turns out he forgot to lube at all (ask me about the time he did this with his first AR) After a couple spark showers shooting out of the action because of it being bone dry it ran like any other AK.
Hell, I thought the sparks were normal!
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-29-2011, 8:44 PM
Bigtwin's Avatar
Bigtwin Bigtwin is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: N. Cal
Posts: 1,759
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Yep, I lube wear items and the bolt....but just a little bit! Other than that I do over clean my Saiga.
You will likely find the "wear" points are minimal! Not much to lube!
__________________
NRA MEMBER
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-30-2011, 6:02 AM
M.C. M.C. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 153
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m03 View Post
Nonsense. How else are we to get that neat plume of smoke to roll off of it during shooting if we don't oil the gas tube
Newb moment, but why is a greased gas tube/piston bad aside from plumes of smoke?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-30-2011, 6:05 AM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C. View Post
Newb moment, but why is a greased gas tube/piston bad aside from plumes of smoke?
not really needed is all.
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-30-2011, 6:24 AM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
Hell, I thought the sparks were normal!
It's amazing how fussy you can get after fitting one of those high dollar adjustable FCGs in there - suddenly lubrication becomes tantamount to investment protection. A nice trigger feel is very hard to give up once you've had it.

R
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-30-2011, 6:35 AM
Richard Erichsen's Avatar
Richard Erichsen Richard Erichsen is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,912
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
not really needed is all.
It's not needed and if lubed, the misplaced lubricants will leave deposits that require extra cleaning. Some propellents are cleaner than others, surplus ammo tends to run dirtier than the higher quality domestic loads I shoot, but once you cake unnecessarily hydrocarbon-based lubes onto gas system you'll have sticky burnt on black deposits that will at the very least make the cleaning operation more of a chore than it needs to be.

The front face of the gas piston, a bit in the clearance notches, the gas block itself, the gas port at the bottom of the gas block is where most of my deposits end up. Only a fine loose accumulation makes it to the piston shaft itself which is easily removed with minimal brass brushing. In essence, a 5 minute job could become a 20 minute job with no improvement in operation for your troubles.

For those that enjoy cleaning their weapon, slather on the lube to the gas system and have at it.

R
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-30-2011, 6:49 AM
zfields's Avatar
zfields zfields is offline
Vendor/Retailer
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 13,164
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
It's amazing how fussy you can get after fitting one of those high dollar adjustable FCGs in there - suddenly lubrication becomes tantamount to investment protection. A nice trigger feel is very hard to give up once you've had it.

R
Dont know why you are quoting me, Im all for a drop or two of oil on the FCG.
I polished the hell out of my trigger group to get a smoother pull also.

As for the gas piston, I used Slip2000 one time, sparingly and wiped dry after a few minutes, makes it much easier to clean ( the rare times that I do clean it )
__________________
Sandstorm Custom Rifle Slings : Custom Paracord slings

10% off slings for calguns members. PM for details. Like us on facebook!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-30-2011, 7:25 AM
Mail Clerk Mail Clerk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,127
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shellshocker66 View Post
So just picked up my new 7.62x39 rifle from Sacramento Black Rifle, tore it down this morning and gave it a cleaning and started looking for lube references in the book (not the best owners manuals), then went in search of some online references and didn't really find anything other then people asking if they should lube the gas tube.

So I took my best guess and lubed the bolt and rails. Did I miss any other important part. I'm hoping not because I discovered that there are some sharp little edges on those Russian guns!
Shellshocker66,

Small parts you can use a drop or two of an oil but not allot cuz it's just fly all over the place inside under the cover. The bolt/carrier/rails I use a grease like white lithium grease from an auto supply shop. One can will last a extremly long time! Either one all you need is enough and no more.

DO NOT EVER LUBE THE GAS TUBE!

Mail Clerk
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-02-2011, 6:16 AM
mhho mhho is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: California
Posts: 204
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Check out this video from Jim Fuller from Rifle Dynamics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSjE_nEFa0c
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-02-2011, 10:34 AM
NorCalK9.com's Avatar
NorCalK9.com NorCalK9.com is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oakley CA
Posts: 3,967
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

We're suppose to oil n clean our ak's?
Wtf?
Nobody told me. Is that why when I get up to 600-700 rounds in a range trip my ak's are literally smoking? Lmfao
__________________
K.N.P.V. line malinois.
Like my AR but LOVE myAK
https://m.facebook.com/NorCal-K-9-137536682986716/
Our dogs bite
Malinois n Dutch shep pups available all ages Working homes only.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:14 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.