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  #81  
Old 03-15-2018, 1:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nukemnow View Post
Yeah, get with it: USPSA, IDPA, Multigun, Action Pistol,
Steel Challenge, SASS; whatever.

Get off your *** and jump in.

You think you are good; but until you are in competition, you suck: a wannabe, a mall ninja, a gun polisher.

Start shooting for sport.

Do it now!
Well being a Marine Corps Vet that grew up in Detroit and was 'shooting' before I enlisted, I don't need to run around in a sanctioned match to prove to the SoCal OP that I am not some Gun Polishing Mall Ninja.

Has the OP ever shot to qualify using Military Standards at a 500 yard/ meter range?
Ever had their targets shooting back at them?
Every time I have officially requalified for my CCW over the last 20 years, I have a range score of 100%.

Plus I am not going to drive hundreds of miles, pay lots of fees, and have to get a motel room to go to one of those sanctioned shooting events far from my acreage out here in the Boonies. Here where I can wander around with a bayonet tipped weapon wearing Cammies and full web gear without worrying about the neighbors (deer and bears) calling the authorities when I decide to do some shooting on the back side of the hilltop.
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  #82  
Old 03-15-2018, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Humboldt Leatherneck View Post
..
Has the OP ever shot to qualify using Military Standards at a 500 yard/ meter range?
Ever had their targets shooting back at them?
Every time I have officially requalified for my CCW over the last 20 years, I have a range score of 100%....
I don't think there is a Military Standards at 500/yard/meter range with a handgun. I also doubt your targets were shooting back at you with handguns or you were using handguns if you were in theater.

Was there a time limit on the CCW qualification? There was none for OC. Even POST qualifications give you an eternity to shoot. There is a huge difference between bullseye type of shooting and action shooting in regards to time between shots.

Also, all OP was saying was to compete to get used to some stress. Short of an actual encounter that is the next best thing.
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  #83  
Old 03-15-2018, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
I don't think there is a Military Standards at 500/yard/meter range with a handgun. I also doubt your targets were shooting back at you with handguns or you were using handguns if you were in theater.

No there are no pistol/ handgun 500 meter ranges.

Was there a time limit on the CCW qualification? There was none for OC. Even POST qualifications give you an eternity to shoot. There is a huge difference between bullseye type of shooting and action shooting in regards to time between shots.

Also, all OP was saying was to compete to get used to some stress. Short of an actual encounter that is the next best thing.
I was trying to show the OP, that not everyone fits his definition as a gun polishing tactical mall ninja, if they do not practice what he recommended.

Correct - there are no 500 meter handgun ranges.
But when I watch the '3 gun shooting events' on TV, there are handguns, shotguns, and rifles used. If one is going to compete in 'shooting', such as I did in the past in Military Rifle competitions, we did shoot out to 500 yards.

There was no time limits for CCW requalification. At the indoor range last week, I fired at 30 feet while standing still at a station and finished rather quickly, even loading ammunition into my magazines at the firing station. Years ago when my former CCW instructor was alive, while training at an outdoor range he allowed me/ called for 'the Marine', to go first in the class and permitted me do double taps/ rapid fire, moving sideways and forwards/ backwards, with a target no closer than 15 yards out to 25 yards.

There were two older women just getting their first CCW at one session, and they made a remark about how I must have been "angry" that morning. I responded by telling them that if they had to draw and use their weapon, that they should do so in an aggressive manner.

I posted pics of one of my CCW weapons that I shoot and how I do it while moving, rapid firing, quick magazine changes, and such in this thread post #449.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...390201&page=12

When I practice, I try to use Marine style training as shown on this website. I may not use USMC issued weapons and holsters, but I do try to basically follow the format posted below.

https://rifleshooter.com/2015/07/sho...l-program-cpp/

Shooting a firearms qualification course is a great way to benchmark your proficiency. Pistol qualifications are among the easiest to replicate on your own. Typically taking places at distances of 25 yards and less, the qualification experience can be simulated at most facilities.

As a former Marine, I qualified with the M9 pistol in what was known as the Entry Level Pistol Program, or ELP. The ELP was adopted by the USMC in the mid 1980s with the introduction of the M9 service pistol (Lamothe, 2013). Shot on a bullseye target pasted to an “e” silhouette, the qualification course at the end of the ELP had the shooter start with the pistol at the low ready position and included a slow fire stage.

This is what the ELP qualification looked like:

25 yds – 15 rds slow fire (10 min.)

7 yds – quick reaction drills (1 shot in 3 seconds, pistol is pointed down at a 45 degree angle, not in holster) 5 of these, each shot is double action.
7 yds – quick reaction drills (2 shots in 5 seconds, pistol is not holstered, pointed down at 45 degrees) 4 of these for eight total shots.
15 yds – magazine change/sustained fire (3 shots from first mag, 3 shots from the second mag, all in 20 seconds) two of these for 12 total shots.
40 shots and 400 possible points. Use a standard NRA 50-yd pistol target.
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  #84  
Old 03-15-2018, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
The guy above with 4 kids won't have time for himself for anything for the next 18 years. To keep it limited to only 18 years I'd suggest a Vasectomy ?
Who, me? I don’t even have balls!
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  #85  
Old 03-15-2018, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclopes85 View Post
In the sac area, how does one get started?

I just purchased a CZ Tac Sport a couple weeks ago. That's as far as I've gotten...

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Sign up with SDPS class - ( https://sdps-idpa.org/first-time-shooters/ ) 1st Sat of each month - they will go thru rules, stages, and what to expect - they require the class before your first match. The match is the next day

I usually SO (Safety Officer) Squad 6 - come out and we will make sure you have fun - our squad is filled with some fair shooters - but we aren't the super serious "don't talk to me I'm mentally preparing" shooters. We will help you (and probably find something to tease you about).

It has improved my shooting a HUGE amount.

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  #86  
Old 03-15-2018, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Humboldt Leatherneck View Post

Every time I have officially requalified for my CCW over the last 20 years, I have a range score of 100%.
This guy! Awesome
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  #87  
Old 03-15-2018, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Widdle View Post
I’ve been on “maternity leave” from matches for a while now. The last couple times my husband and I had time to get to the open range for a couple hours on a Saturday, it was kinda sad. Every time we’d go say hi to the guys shooting the matches at Sac Valley, somebody else had passed away.
You must have been visiting IDPA matches (says the man who has been shooting IDPA for 14 years).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
What's the situation with high cap mags in USPSA matches? Are they setting shooting boxes in a stage to be 10 round neutral?
Every range is different, but for Richmond, as long as the law remains stalled in the courts, then all divisions are recognized and it is Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell. If the law ever goes into effect, then Richmond will convert all competitions to utilizing max 10-round mags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopes85 View Post
In the sac area, how does one get started?
Not sure about USPSA in Sacramento, but for IDPA, the Sacramento club has a mandatory New Shooters Class. Richmond also has a mandatory class for starting in all practical pistol sports (I'm one of the instructors). Nice thing about Richmond is that once you take the class, we have Saturday practices if there is no major match that weekend. We set up a static line where you can draw and rapid fire, but not move. And then we set up on another bay a mock USPSA stage that you can take turns running through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopes85 View Post
I read the USPSA hand book and looked into some introduction videos to USPSA matches. Do people normally shoot .40 due to the scoring technique?

Also, do you know how to get access to the action pistol range? Just become a non voting member?
.40S&W is popular in USPSA Limited division. Otherwise, 9mm and 45acp are the most common calibers.

For access to the action range at Sac, last I heard is that you have to be a FSC member, and you have to have some type of Range Officer certification in IDPA or USPSA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
I'm looking for skills, and I get more bang for the buck (or hour, as the case may be) by paying for a class.
If you've never shot competition before, you might find that statement to be quite incorrect should you ever try it. Competition is never any good for training tactics, but it is superb at developing and refining gun handling mechanics. Draws, reloads, target transitions, enter/leaving shooting positions, malfunction recovery...all skills you perform in competition while the timer is running. Classes have their place, but competitions provide an environment to use those skills in ways that are not usually possible at a class.

I will say this...if you have a gun for self-defense, and you think you are pretty good with it, I do encourage you to try one of the gun games at least once. You will quickly find out your strengths and weaknesses. Doesn't mean you need to swallow the red pill and go buy a I-Just-Pretend-To-Be-Sponsored shooting jersey, but it is one of the few venues that allows you to take a gun in your hand and drive it hard. It can be a real eye-opening experience.
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  #88  
Old 03-15-2018, 7:40 PM
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I heard USPSA lowered the major power factor a while ago. Is it tough shooting with your skirt blowing up?

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  #89  
Old 03-15-2018, 7:43 PM
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Wow, from 2003
http://forums.brianenos.com/topic/55...charity-match/
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  #90  
Old 03-15-2018, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
I heard USPSA lowered the major power factor a while ago. Is it tough shooting with your skirt blowing up?

It wasn't the skirts blowing up, it was the guns shooting 9mm loaded long and hot to make major power factor.
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  #91  
Old 03-15-2018, 8:22 PM
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Umm, I was disparaging their manhood, not the calibers

We used to shoot 9x21 with small pistol primers. Those were HOT !!
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  #92  
Old 03-15-2018, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Humboldt Leatherneck View Post

Has the OP ever shot to qualify using Military Standards at a 500 yard/ meter range?
Pala has 3g /rifle matches with shots from 3 feet to 500m. camp pendleton marksman instructors shoot the match occasionally as well as some frogs.

Piru also has rifle and 3g matches out to 500 m as well.

its pretty challenging to hustle through a stage and have to finish on some long shots after running and your heart rate and breathing is increased. great adrenaline rush.
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  #93  
Old 03-15-2018, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Humboldt Leatherneck View Post

There was no time limits for CCW requalification. At the indoor range last week, I fired at 30 feet while standing still at a station and finished rather quickly, even loading ammunition into my magazines at the firing station.

There were two older women just getting their first CCW at one session, and they made a remark about how I must have been "angry" that morning. I responded by telling them that if they had to draw and use their weapon, that they should do so in an aggressive manner.
I assume this was Old West in Eureka. How were you shooting that they thought you were mad? We're fortunate that Old West allows double taps and even fairly fast fire, especially when you are alone.

There's a USPSA match at Old West the last Sunday of April. No wanna be tacti-cool guys here. Just a bunch of guys, and several women, having fun on a Sunday morning. We start at 9, register at 8:30 and are usually done by 12:30 or so. There rest of the year our matches will be up 299 at the Long Prairie range.
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  #94  
Old 03-15-2018, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt Leatherneck View Post
...
This is what the ELP qualification looked like:

25 yds – 15 rds slow fire (10 min.)

7 yds – quick reaction drills (1 shot in 3 seconds, pistol is pointed down at a 45 degree angle, not in holster) 5 of these, each shot is double action.
7 yds – quick reaction drills (2 shots in 5 seconds, pistol is not holstered, pointed down at 45 degrees) 4 of these for eight total shots.
15 yds – magazine change/sustained fire (3 shots from first mag, 3 shots from the second mag, all in 20 seconds) two of these for 12 total shots.
40 shots and 400 possible points. Use a standard NRA 50-yd pistol target.
345-expert
330-sharpshooter
290-marksman (minimum)
...
Good test I am sure. However, as slow as the shooting is there really is no need for any recoil control. We are comparing apples and oranges. Static shooting vs action shooting where 0.25/sec a shot means one is really taking his time to be accurate.
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  #95  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Eureka1911 View Post
I assume this was Old West in Eureka. How were you shooting that they thought you were mad? We're fortunate that Old West allows double taps and even fairly fast fire, especially when you are alone.

There's a USPSA match at Old West the last Sunday of April. No wanna be tacti-cool guys here. Just a bunch of guys, and several women, having fun on a Sunday morning. We start at 9, register at 8:30 and are usually done by 12:30 or so. There rest of the year our matches will be up 299 at the Long Prairie range.
In the many years ago requalifying with the two older women making the "angry shooting" comment incident, I was training with Al Koog out at the Old Simpson Range east of Blue Lake on Hwy 299/ now the Long Prairie Range.

At Old West Shootery for my last 3 CCW renewals / most recently last week - It was standing still at a station firing at a target indoors. It is a small cramped range, with hardly any bench room for gun cases if more than a couple of folks are shooting. I had to use one of the folding chairs and a stool in the corner away from the door to hold my 2 gun cases last week/ for 3 handguns and ammo. Plus they did not want me firing many rounds with my CCW CZ-52 in 7.62X25mm Tokarev, due to their backstop.

I live up in the hills above Eureka/ Arcata on 80 acres, so I have the availability to go shooting up here. Or I head East towards Willow Creek, and I go off into Six Rivers National Forest to go shooting.

I know a couple of the rangemasters at Redwood Gun Club, so I have done some shooting out there in the past.

It takes me roughly an hour to get to Eureka, so no way am I going out that early on a Sunday morning... Unless it is hunting or fishing season!
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Last edited by Humboldt Leatherneck; 03-15-2018 at 10:11 PM.. Reason: added info
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  #96  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:40 PM
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A lot of people comment about competition trying to sound like they know what they are talking about. But you can tell that most of what they say is what they assume occurs at matches.

Some people criticize action pistol matches because major powere factor is below full power self defense loads. But the same people when discussing reloadinf for the range will usually post data that are real powder puff loads far below major pf.

Classes can be great but I see very few shooters who go to even a couple per year while many who compete do it 2 or 3 times a month.

Many ex military instructors, combat vets do say they still feel the stress when the timer beeps in competition.
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  #97  
Old 03-15-2018, 11:43 PM
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I think the point of this should be to get out IF/WHEN you can to polish your skills.

Everyone has priorities in life, and the time/money commitment of getting out to the range often just isn't feasible especially in this state. Getting on people for that is annoying. I hate the people who ride people about "training". If the extent of someones interest in firearms is going once in a while and shooting paper, so what?

Statistically speaking SD shootings happen at extremely close ranges, and rarely involve more than a few shots. So long as they are sharp on firearm safety I don't see that as being an issue. It doesn't take much skill to shoot like that.

If someone has a CCW, I think that's different. Because the inherent nature of a SD shooting with it, would require all of the skills training and competition would teach.
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  #98  
Old 03-16-2018, 5:48 AM
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well said.
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  #99  
Old 03-16-2018, 6:58 AM
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Iron Sights in Oceanside has good matches and even in a free state its hard to find places that do matches.
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  #100  
Old 03-16-2018, 8:24 AM
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Iron Sights in Oceanside has good matches and even in a free state its hard to find places that do matches.
Yup... I occasionally go down there for the IDPA matches on the last Sunday of the month.

The matches are not put on by the range, only hosted by the range. All the latches are the work of the Oceanside Practical Pistol Club http://oceansidepistol.com/
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  #101  
Old 03-16-2018, 8:34 AM
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...

Statistically speaking SD shootings happen at extremely close ranges, and rarely involve more than a few shots. So long as they are sharp on firearm safety I don't see that as being an issue. It doesn't take much skill to shoot like that....
You'd be surprised how much jerking a trigger while shooting can veer a bullet off target under stress even at close ranges.

At home invasion the distances can be 7-10 yards also, not just 3 yards. From where I am sitting to my front door is 10 yards for example.
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  #102  
Old 03-16-2018, 8:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dwinters14 View Post
Statistically speaking SD shootings happen at extremely close ranges, and rarely involve more than a few shots. So long as they are sharp on firearm safety I don't see that as being an issue. It doesn't take much skill to shoot like that.

If someone has a CCW, I think that's different. Because the inherent nature of a SD shooting with it, would require all of the skills training and competition would teach.
All this was at relatively close range.... stress and its adrenaline, fear and falling back to your lowest level of training all come into play... So I have to disagree with your statement

here are a number of "police officers" who expended 65 rounds and didn't hit their target.....

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Old 03-16-2018, 8:49 AM
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For *REAL* competition, folks, try NRA Bullseye (aka Conventional Pistol, aka Precision Pistol). Then try CMP Service Pistol. Then ask yourself if you want to go back to run'n'gun.

For those unfamiliar with the sport, you shoot one-handed in standing position. Slow fire is 10 shots in 10 minutes, targets are at 50 yards, sustained fire targets are at 25 yards (the short line) and you shoot strings of 5 shots in 20 and 10 seconds per string. NRA allows .22, any centerfire and .45 calibers. CMP service pistol is either 9mm or .45ACP, FMJ only (used to be only the full power ball ammo, now they allow 185gr JHP bullets so loads can be somewhat reduced).

If you live in the Phoenix, AZ area, check out the Phoenix Rod&Gun club, home for some masters, high masters and national champions. Or if you are in Sacramento, try Sacramento Valley club, they have bullseye matches every month and there are also quite a few masters and high masters who are frequent there. The new shooters are always welcome.
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  #104  
Old 03-16-2018, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
You must have been visiting IDPA matches (says the man who has been shooting IDPA for 14 years).
Mostly silhouette matches on range 6 at Sac Valley. Occasionally high power on range 12.
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  #105  
Old 03-16-2018, 9:15 AM
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So......if I do compete, I am not a nerd? This is exciting news.
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Old 03-16-2018, 9:58 AM
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I’m a nerd too.
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  #107  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
All this was at relatively close range.... stress and its adrenaline, fear and falling back to your lowest level of training all come into play... So I have to disagree with your statement

here are a number of "police officers" who expended 65 rounds and didn't hit their target.....

Police are different. They're up on their feet, drawing from a holster and doing a hundred things at once. Your average home invasion would probably include a barricaded home owner.

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Old 03-16-2018, 10:18 AM
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Police are different. They're up on their feet, drawing from a holster and doing a hundred things at once. Your average home invasion would probably include a barricaded home owner.

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Think that scenario thru.... I doubt it.
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  #109  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:24 AM
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Statistically speaking SD shootings happen at extremely close ranges, and rarely involve more than a few shots. So long as they are sharp on firearm safety I don't see that as being an issue. It doesn't take much skill to shoot like that.
To play Devil's Advocate, yes, most SD shootings are at near-contact distance and involve less than six shots. But go watch the myriad of YouTube videos and then ask yourself why four of those six shots missed when they were that close.

This is definitely one of those moments where you should expect to fall to the lowest level of your training (or lack of) rather than rising to perfection you think you can achieve. This is why I LOVE competition shooting...aside from being encouraged to run around with a gun in your hand and shoot things fast, you are developing muscle-memory for sight acquisition and trigger pull while under stress. And to achieve this, you don't need to come out to play with the best, most-expensive gear and super expertise of the rules. You don't have to try to win to get the practical benefits from gun games.
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:27 AM
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To play Devil's Advocate, yes, most SD shootings are at near-contact distance and involve less than six shots. But go watch the myriad of YouTube videos and then ask yourself why four of those six shots missed when they were that close.

This is definitely one of those moments where you should expect to fall to the lowest level of your training (or lack of) rather than rising to perfection you think you can achieve.
I agree with you, my point was that given the scenario, even under stress a person would still most likely be able to point and shoot. Good ammo choice, and a good firearm would probably stop the threat.

That's all I was saying in the first place.

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Old 03-16-2018, 10:35 AM
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To play Devil's Advocate, yes, most SD shootings are at near-contact distance and involve less than six shots. But go watch the myriad of YouTube videos and then ask yourself why four of those six shots missed when they were that close.

This is definitely one of those moments where you should expect to fall to the lowest level of your training (or lack of) rather than rising to perfection you think you can achieve. This is why I LOVE competition shooting...aside from being encouraged to run around with a gun in your hand and shoot things fast, you are developing muscle-memory for sight acquisition and trigger pull while under stress. And to achieve this, you don't need to come out to play with the best, most-expensive gear and super expertise of the rules. You don't have to try to win to get the practical benefits from gun games.
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I agree with you, my point was that given the scenario, even under stress a person would still most likely be able to point and shoot. Good ammo choice, and a good firearm would probably stop the threat.

That's all I was saying in the first place.
And being able to "point and shoot" does not equate into hits that stop a threat. Hence my use of the video above to make the exaggerated point. Its not the first shot fired that wins the fight.. its the first well placed HIT! Without that critical shooting skill muscle memories to get those hits...you are at a serious disadvantage.
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:37 AM
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And being able to "point and shoot" does not equate into hits that stop a threat.
Honestly, I think you're underestimating a basic ability. A human being is able to hit a person at 7 yards.

I think practicing and training is just as important as the next guy, but everyone carries on like you wouldnt be able to hit the broadside of a barn if you don't. That's a lie.

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Old 03-16-2018, 11:01 AM
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Honestly, I think you're underestimating a basic ability. A human being is able to hit a person at 7 yards.

I think practicing and training is just as important as the next guy, but everyone carries on like you wouldnt be able to hit the broadside of a barn if you don't. That's a lie.

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Best of LUCK to you sir....
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:02 AM
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Best of LUCK to you sir....
Won't need it. But thanks.

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Old 03-16-2018, 11:19 AM
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Everyone has priorities in life, and the time/money commitment of getting out to the range often just isn't feasible especially in this state. Getting on people for that is annoying. I hate the people who ride people about "training". If the extent of someones interest in firearms is going once in a while and shooting paper, so what?
Agree with you here.

Shooting, particularly action shooting, is a *sport*. It's fun, it requires training to get good at the *sport*, and it teaches all sorts of shooting-related skills that are also used in self defense, but it's still a *sport*.

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Originally Posted by dwinters14 View Post
Statistically speaking SD shootings happen at extremely close ranges, and rarely involve more than a few shots. So long as they are sharp on firearm safety I don't see that as being an issue. It doesn't take much skill to shoot like that.
Careful here.

Your premise that you won't miss is incorrect. The best way to see how well you will perform is to set up a target at 7-10 yards and work on "fast draw" with a timer. The time adds pressure and makes you want to shoot as soon as you have an "acceptable sight picture" and, more importantly, it forces you to acquire the sight picture while the gun is moving. It's the *combination* of acquiring sight picture on the move and the (in)ability to pull the trigger fast (and at correct time) without disturbing the sights that will make you miss.

It's quite eye opening. Anyone who has done action shooting knows this. That's the value of running on timer - stress, adrenaline and real-life experience of what is/isn't "easy" to hit.

Another aspect that is often overlooked is that in self-defense it's not so much about precission, but about being able to place multiple shots in short time in the general area of vital organs. A "center mass" hit has only *probability* of hitting a vital organ and stopping the threat. This is because individuals have slightly different location of vitals, they are moving and a fraction of an inch makes a huge difference. That's why multiple *accurate* and *fast* shots are typically required.

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If someone has a CCW, I think that's different. Because the inherent nature of a SD shooting with it, would require all of the skills training and competition would teach.
Action shooting certainly helps, but vast majority of CCW encounters don't even require a shot to be fired. Just something to keep in mind.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:26 AM
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Honestly, I think you're underestimating a basic ability. A human being is able to hit a person at 7 yards.
Try it with a timer and from holster, use standard USPSA target, post distance, time to first hit and a photo of the target.

It will really help you understand the difficulty of coordinating imperfect sight picture, movement of the gun driven by your hands/legs (hands for draw, legs for transitions), *fast* trigger pull (not bullseye technique) and timing. It's the combination of the above factors that makes one miss.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:36 AM
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Try it with a timer and from holster, use standard USPSA target, post distance, time to first hit and a photo of the target.

It will really help you understand the difficulty of coordinating imperfect sight picture, movement of the gun driven by your hands/legs (hands for draw, legs for transitions), *fast* trigger pull (not bullseye technique) and timing. It's the combination of the above factors that makes one miss.
I think everyone has missed my point. I do all of these things, I practice I compete etc.. so I know what I'm capable of. I'm simply saying all the pressure put on gun owners constantly to train is annoying. Some people don't want to be Rambo, but rather the dude who plinks. I'm saying that's perfectly fine, and in a given situation should be able to hold down the fort.

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Old 03-16-2018, 11:53 AM
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I'm simply saying all the pressure put on gun owners constantly to train is annoying. Some people don't want to be Rambo, but rather the dude who plinks. I'm saying that's perfectly fine, and in a given situation should be able to hold down the fort.
Agreed.

We have at least hundreds of thousands of defensive gun uses annually and very few issues. Most of the time the gun is not fired, and when it is, it tends to be a good shot.

So, back on topic, action shooting is NOT self defense or tactical training. It's a very fun sport and a great way to improve one's skill, measured objectively by both hits on target and the time it took to get those hits.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:01 PM
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Honestly, I think you're underestimating a basic ability. A human being is able to hit a person at 7 yards.
Really not meaning to be a dick to you, but you are right if:

- You are standing still
- Target is standing still
- You have time to get a nice two-hand hold and good foot placement
- Target is face on to you providing a nice zero deflection shot
- Time to acquire sights
- Adrenaline NOT surging, not wondering if you are about to die in the next two seconds.

My point is be careful assuming that being a good shot at the range means that you are going to rise to excellence during a fight. If you plan on a gun being a major component of your self defense strategy, you need to know what your abilities are with point shooting, one-handed shooting, shooting on the move, putting multiple rounds on target in the space of a few seconds, hitting a target this isn't holding still, etc., etc.

I truly don't think that proficiency at a public range (which is only venue available to 75-80% of handgun owners) is going to prepare you for those needs. Some people are naturals, but most of us actually need to practice.
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Old 03-16-2018, 3:26 PM
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Pros and cons on both sides.

Fwiw my old man story

Love competition. Loved racing things for years. Tried USPSA back in 2012, was impressed by how good this one guy was in my squad. Asked him if he was a “A” guy, he laughed. No, just a “C”...

So, a few years later, late ‘15 thru ‘16 shot regularly with the Linea de Fuego Pala group. Mostly cool peeps lol. Don’t like the wait, but the shooting with movement and reloads and all I really enjoy. Gee now I am the C guy and my retired Marine friends can’t believe how well I shoot pistols lol...

Disposable income issue here tho’...
Can’t keep spending that much money every month, so made wife a deal last year, and I will go to a match occasionally. And the competition cut back allowed me a new guitar and amp lol... We all have our priorities, yes?

Thanks for letting me share.

If you hAven’t tried some kind of gun competition I would encourage shooters to give it a go. You might like it.

And the guys that are happy to stay home, relax, train other ways, and play hockey, well I salute you all. Cheers, have a nice weekend



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