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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2019, 1:52 PM
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Default HR 8 Background Check Bill

Speaker Pelosi, House Democrats and former Representative Gabby Giffords unveil legislation to expand background checks for sales and transfers of firearms.

Here we go again. This gets old.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2019, 2:51 PM
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This should probably be in National, no?

Can't find the text on HR 8 yet, but some basic descriptions from Washington Post:
Quote:
A bipartisan group in the House plans to introduce a measure Tuesday afternoon that would require background checks for all gun sales and most gun transfers, according to aides. Federally licensed gun sellers are required to run background checks on people who purchase guns, but private sellers who are not federally licensed do not.
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Old 01-08-2019, 3:01 PM
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Still has to pass the senate, and I'm not sure if Trump would sign it.

If democrats really wanted to "compromise" they would throw us a bone and include something like federal protection/legalization of pistol caliber handgun magazines that do not exceed 20rds. As long as they keep making demands without true compromise, these bills will go no where. Which makes sense though, because their goal is civilian disarmament not public safety.
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Old 01-08-2019, 3:02 PM
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Yeah, this is national
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2019, 4:04 PM
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Giffords and others where shot by Jared Lee Loughner. Loughner passed the background check when he purchased the Glock 19 from the Sportsman's Paradise store in Tucson AZ.
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Old 01-08-2019, 4:44 PM
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Bills labeled "HR." or "S." are Federal, and go to National.

Moved.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #7  
Old 01-10-2019, 1:30 PM
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See also Dave Kopel's 'Textual analysis of HR8, bill to "To require a background check for every firearm sale"' at Volokh Conspiracy.
Quote:
Summary

HR8 requires that loans, gifts, and sales of firearms be processed by a gun store. The same fees, paperwork, and permanent record-keeping apply as to buying a new gun from the store. If you loan a gun to a friend without going to the gun store, the penalty is the same as for knowingly selling a gun to a convicted violent felon. Likewise, when the friend returns the gun, another trip to the gun store is necessary, upon pain of felony.

A clever trick in HR8 effectively bans handguns for persons 18-to20.

The bill has some narrow exemptions. The exemptions do not cover stalking victims. Also excluded are farming and ranching, sharing guns on almost all public and private lands, NS storing guns with friends while on vacation. The limited exemption for family excludes first cousins and in-laws. The minuscule exemption for self-defense excludes stalking victims.

The bill authorizes unlimited fees to be imposed by regulation.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #8  
Old 01-10-2019, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Death of 2A by 1000 cuts, at the national level.

Sad and deplorable that any of our country's "leaders" feel the self-righteous urge to conspire to dismantle the institutions that made this country great.

May the fleas of 1000 hound dogs infest their crotches and armpits!
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Old 01-11-2019, 5:41 PM
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Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
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Old 01-11-2019, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
I'm sure criminals do too since they just ignore them anyway.
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Old 01-11-2019, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
Whatís the point, when you can build an 80% glock, 80% ar15, 80% 1911.
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Old 01-11-2019, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
Keep regurgitation that leftist bull****.

ETA: I totally quoted the wrong post...fixed it.
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  #13  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:54 PM
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If it involves sale of second hand guns, itís gonna be a problem. Thatís intrastate trade. New from a dealer is considered interstate, and the courts arenít going to overturn that. But requiring second hand sales to go through a dealer will be a problem.

This isnít kalifornia, where the state can do as it pleases. National is a different story.


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They're not liberals, they're leftists. Please don't use the former for the latter. Liberals are Locke, Jefferson, Burke, Hayek. Leftists are progressives, Prussian state-socialists, fascists. Liberals stand against the state and unequivocally support liberty. Leftists support state tyranny.

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Old 01-13-2019, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1911 View Post
If it involves sale of second hand guns, it’s gonna be a problem. That’s intrastate trade. New from a dealer is considered interstate, and the courts aren’t going to overturn that. But requiring second hand sales to go through a dealer will be a problem.

This isn’t kalifornia, where the state can do as it pleases. National is a different story.


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Yeah?

So you are telling me that the post-Lopez Gun Free School Zone act doesn't apply to a firearm I buy second-hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18 USC 922(q)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
Good luck with that. Especially since SCOTUS found in Wickard v. Filburn that growing your own wheat can be regulated under the commerce clause.
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2019, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
Not 90% of Utahns.. Hasn't been through the House yet.. I doubt ALL Dems support this. Most states allow PPT Walmart parking lot sales... As it should be..
These people must think Trump is a dead duck and will sign anything to get a wall.

Last edited by Dan_Eastvale; 01-13-2019 at 6:41 PM..
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2019, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
Citing "90%" is an old saw put forward by anti-gunners. It should always be challenged. UBC has never gotten more than 60% on election day.

Unless one knows the question being asked, by which organization, who is being asked and when - such as just after a shooting, which is what was done after Newtown - I'm not certain 90% can be said with any accuracy, other than by Mrs. Clinton in the 2016 campaign. A question phrased "background checks prevent bad people from getting guns. Do you support background checks?" will certainly get stronger results than "should a person who already owns guns be prohibited from giving a gun to a family member who already owns guns?" Or, "should a 19 year old service member be prohibited from buying a gun for self-defense in the home?"

We should remember that in the 4 recent "UBC" referendums one won by about 60%, one lost by about 52% and one won by about the same. And the other (in NV) was a near tie and tossed by the AG. So when it comes down to each side putting its case before the public over time, rather than a single poll question of a small group, there's an about 50/50 split and at worst, a 60/40 split - which is a far cry from "90%". Just a 1 of 10 change on that 60% vote gets us to even.

Still, there's a point to be taken that many gunowners will without pause support UBC - without asking about the registration which must be used to enforce any UBC system. Or that 18 to 20 year olds will be prohibited from using the protections of Heller. Or what public safety concern is addressed by requiring UBC of someone who already owns guns. Nor the philosophical question of allowing the government to determine which of its citizens may, in a worst case scenario, use arms to keep it in check.

The most efficient way for gunowners to kill UBC talk is to agree with it, on a condition that we get something in return. In this day and age there is simply no reason why a resident of AZ or CA, for example, can't buy "cash & carry" from a gun store in OR, KS, AK and so on. Bring that up to the anti-gunners and they'll reject it out of hand. Because their version of compromise is limited to "this is how much gunowners will be screwed".
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Old 01-13-2019, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Over 90% of America supports expanded background checks. No doubt that means most gun owners too.
Where did "90%" come from?
So 100% of all US citizens were surveyed, and 9 out of ten asked for more background checks?
Do you know anybody, even one person, who was surveyed on this issue?
I'm sure that 90% of the anti-gunners surveyed agreed, but that's not all of the US Citizens by far.
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Old 01-13-2019, 9:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
Where did "90%" come from?
So 100% of all US citizens were surveyed, and 9 out of ten asked for more background checks?

Do you know anybody, even one person, who was surveyed on this issue?
I'm sure that 90% of the anti-gunners surveyed agreed, but that's not all of the US Citizens by far.
Often times I think it comes from folks who want us to believe it's true.
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