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Long Distance Shooting Discuss tools, techniques, tips and theories of long distance shooting

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  #1  
Old 03-29-2018, 9:48 PM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
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Default Minutes of Adjustment

Not a long range guy, but have question regarding a guy's claim. This person, friend of the family, tells me he has a Ruger Patriot Rifle outfitted with a Leupold VX-3i. Claims he hit 10 / 10 (MOA) at 1000 yards and does it regularly.

My question, regardless of caliber, barrel, skill set, etc.... is it even possible? Does that scope even have to capability of that much adjustment for calibers the Patriot comes in?

Forgive my ignorance in all this, as I only hunt and play at the range with hunting distances in mind. I hate to call BS on this friend of the family without actually having a decent understanding if the equipment is capable of such feats. Thanks in advance.

Last edited by roostersgt; 03-29-2018 at 9:54 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2018, 10:28 PM
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10/10 at moa? That is 10 shots into 10". Sure, it's possible. Can, and does he do it regularly? Go with him and see for yourself.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:44 PM
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I would, but he's in Montana. Just curious if the scope he has could adjust for that much elevation in the standard "hunting" calibers offered by the manufacturer.

Ballistics Charts I've found online indicate ~277 inch drop for 270win 130 gr pill at 1000 yards, with a 100 yard zero. Leupold states the model scope he owns has 113" of elevation and windage adj. The way I read the chart, even if he had a 500 yard zero, he'd still need to dope his scope ~ 220 inches of drop. Sound about right, or am I misunderstanding.

Last edited by roostersgt; 03-29-2018 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 03-30-2018, 3:46 AM
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No mention of caliber used, Bullet used, size of target? and very vague on what the hell 10/10 (MOA) means.

To put things in perspective. We've had guys show up at the 600 and 1000 yard line with.. well for lack of a better term a Deer Rifle. they grabbed some FGGM. and once they were on paper they could hold 2-3 moa in a good wind.

Holding 1 moa at 1000 10 out of 10 shots is what we call a clean and if he can do that in 20 shots he could be a top level competitor. If that was the long barreled 6.5 CM and the rifle and shooter was capable of shooting .5 moa or better and he used really good bullets and really good reloading techniques or good match ammo that happened to work well in his rifle. Sure it's possible.
Keep in mind they make a VX3 long range now that has 70-80 moa put that on a 20 moa rail and in 6.5 CM you only need to come up about 20 moa.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:08 AM
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Thank you for the explanation.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:31 AM
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There are far too many people claiming they can "shoot 1 MOA all day long".
Amazing that you see very few of these great shooters at the range.
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Old 03-30-2018, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango_Down View Post
There are far too many people claiming they can "shoot 1 MOA all day long".
Amazing that you see very few of these great shooters at the range.
More like 1/4 moa, when they do their part
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Old 03-30-2018, 6:09 PM
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10 moa (minute of angle btw) is 10" at 100 yards not 1000.
People brag about shooting 1 moa, and rifles capable of <1 moa.

Practical accuracy - IIRC you need to shoot 4 moa to score "rifleman" at an Appleseed.
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Old 03-30-2018, 6:09 PM
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Many people can shoot MOA on the internet, very few people can do it on the range, at any distance.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:22 PM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
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His claim is he shoots his store bought $400 rifle with afore mentioned scope and hits targets 10" diameter 10 times in a row at 1000 yards. Seems like a tall tale to me, but LR is not my thing. Thought most who shoot that well at that range would have spent a lot more on their rifle / barrel etc.... I know there're people who can shoot that well at the ranges I go to, but their rigs are highly specialized and not off the shelf. They also appear to have handholds and really big expensive glass. Not going to call BS on the guy. Will keep that to myself.
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Old 03-31-2018, 6:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roostersgt View Post
His claim is he shoots his store bought $400 rifle with afore mentioned scope and hits targets 10" diameter 10 times in a row at 1000 yards. Seems like a tall tale to me, but LR is not my thing. Thought most who shoot that well at that range would have spent a lot more on their rifle / barrel etc.... I know there're people who can shoot that well at the ranges I go to, but their rigs are highly specialized and not off the shelf. They also appear to have handholds and really big expensive glass. Not going to call BS on the guy. Will keep that to myself.
I'm not trying to defend him but again it is possible but it's highly unlikely
Here's the deal, if that off the shelf gun is capable of .5 moa with what ever load he has, and the factory ammo is consistent enough, and he has a zero wind day. and before someone say "Or really consistent wind" Yeah go suck something, there is not such thing as "really consistent wind" at 1000 yards. winds do weird crap to bullets flying that far. ZERO WIND DAY and even ZERO THERMAL DAY as well. you can have zero wind but shoot across a area with a good thermal rise and watch what that does to your flight path. Are you seeing how his story is falling apart?? I've shot LR for a few years and shoot with some very good people, and I've seen guys clean a 10 round string of fire, It's rare at our local level but it does happen, it happens more often at 600 yards than 1000 but it does happen.

Lets look at wind a touch deeper.
a 6.5 CM shooting a 115g DTAC @ 2950 fps in a 5 MPH wind is showing 1.2 mil hold or 41" of drift, Now as Ron White would say "It's not that the wind is a blowing. It's what the wind is a blowing" and in this case if the wind changes 1mph that equals .2 mil change and that is 6.875" shift on target, from a change of 1 MPH. This is why I said ZERO WIND DAY. just a 1 MPH change is enough to blow him off target if he's holding center mass.


So you know what he's doing, We Know what he's doing, and it's best just to let him think he's that good.
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Old 03-31-2018, 6:22 AM
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When something is being sold on the net. The sales pitch is always louder...
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2018, 10:19 PM
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Kcstot, I hear you. Thanks for another great explanation of wind drift and what it does.

Furthest I've ever hit a large farming disk (24" diameter) was from a tad over 350 yards. A hunting guide had it set up so one could shoot at it from the front porch of his cabin. Shooting a 308 zeroed at 100 yards, I had to aim for the third wire on the fence behind the disk and about another foot at about the eleven o'clock position just to hear it ring. The only reason i could do that is because he knew where to aim and told me. Almost no detectible wind was blowing that day.

Yeah, LR stuff is challenging. Can't imagine all the variables trying to hit 10 MOA at 1000.
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Old 05-26-2018, 9:36 AM
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Roostergt
There are some very good shooters in Montana's 1000 yard range in Missoula.
If he is shooting with them at a bench they shoot through a tree cutout.
With a 400 dollar store bought gun it would be hard to do because you need the stock to fit the front and rear bags and most factory type stocks are tapered.
In 1000 yard Benchrest the 10 shot group is measured for size no matter where it hits on the 42 inch target.
In high power type events the score is the most important thing not the group's size and to keep things centered up is the key.

As to your shooting a 24 inch gong at 350 yards you would easily shoot under 12 inches at a 1000 yards with one of my heavyguns. To win you would need to shoot 60 shots into half that size and the equipment as you have already posted is highly specialised.
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:11 AM
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To put things in perspective. We've had guys show up at the 600 and 1000 yard line with.. well for lack of a better term a Deer Rifle. they grabbed some FGGM. and once they were on paper they could hold 2-3 moa in a good wind

That's me right before deer season....
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Old 06-14-2018, 7:44 AM
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Back in my younger active military duty years in Utah, I’ve shot my 270 Winnie hunting rifle topped with a 3x9 Burris to 1K yards. It wasn’t 10/10, but I made several hits after walking the shots into the target. Probably easier to do with a mil-dot reticle than a regular hunting reticle. A very good spotter is a must.
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