Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > Technology and Internet
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Technology and Internet Emerging and current tech related issues. Internet, DRM, IP, and other technology related discussions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 06-11-2010, 2:31 PM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

"Clouds can also block your sat phone from getting a signal. Being inside a building and being under trees does the same thing."

Clouds will do no such thing in any phone made in the last five, ten years.

Yes, being inside a building will degrade your satellite phone performance; it will also degrade your hand-held ham radio performance.

Under good conditions, your little hand-held is going to have a range of what...3, 4 miles? Your SatPhone has a range of 44,000 miles.

Ham radio is an outstanding option during an emergency. Everyone should have at least a handheld and the license to use it (though, once again, you don't need a license to transmit during an emergency).

But for pure range and ease of communication, you can not beat a satellite phone. Hell, if you want internet access during this emergency, buy a BGAN unit and blog away during Apocalypse. Point is, this technology allows you the full range of communication that you're used to even when everything else near you is down.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06-11-2010, 2:37 PM
XYZ's Avatar
XYZ XYZ is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,481
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

If you upgrade to general class license and/or have the correct equipment, as JDAY mentioned with a ham radio you can talk to anyone in the world - no repeaters necessary and no limitations. Even communicate with the ISS. Plus you can use it as a scanner and listen in on emergency communications, etc. Lot's of great pluses. I see your point about satellite phones though for the average person.

One has to weigh the option of price point for a satellite phone versus a license for a ham. It's up to each person to decide what's best for them.
__________________

NRA Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06-11-2010, 2:40 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
"Clouds can also block your sat phone from getting a signal. Being inside a building and being under trees does the same thing."

Clouds will do no such thing in any phone made in the last five, ten years.

Yes, being inside a building will degrade your satellite phone performance; it will also degrade your hand-held ham radio performance.

Under good conditions, your little hand-held is going to have a range of what...3, 4 miles? Your SatPhone has a range of 44,000 miles.
Much more than that, I've gotten 50+ miles indoors on an HT (GMRS radios are lucky to get 2-3 miles). For SHTF situations though you'll want a mobile rig and an HT. There are several mobile rigs out there that come with battery packs, and you can run them off any car battery. You can also use them as a repeater to extend your range, useful when you're out in the woods.

Quote:
Ham radio is an outstanding option during an emergency. Everyone should have at least a handheld and the license to use it (though, once again, you don't need a license to transmit during an emergency).

But for pure range and ease of communication, you can not beat a satellite phone.
Ever hear of repeater nets? Assigned emergency frequencies?

Quote:
Hell, if you want internet access during this emergency, buy a BGAN unit and blog away during Apocalypse. Point is, this technology allows you the full range of communication that you're used to even when everything else near you is down.
You can get internet access with a HAM radio and a BNC.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 06-11-2010, 2:42 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ View Post
If you upgrade to general class license and/or have the correct equipment, as JDAY mentioned with a ham radio you can talk to anyone in the world - no repeaters necessary and no limitations. Even communicate with the ISS.
You can talk to the ISS with a HT, people do it all the time. I've even read about people bouncing the signal from their HT off the moon and making contacts in other parts of the world.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 06-11-2010, 2:45 PM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

None of what you're saying in any way affects what I said.

I don't dispute that amateur radio is a great tool to have during an emergency.

But satellite gives you a far greater range with a much better user interface for the average person. It's that simple.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-11-2010, 2:57 PM
XYZ's Avatar
XYZ XYZ is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,481
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

As an FYI, the range of a ham radio pretty much covers the world.

For the average person I think the user interface of a satellite phone has the greater advantage over a ham.
__________________

NRA Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-11-2010, 3:25 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
But satellite gives you a far greater range with a much better user interface for the average person. It's that simple.
See below. And like I said earlier solar storms could takeout the satellites along with ground stations and the power grid. Its being predicted by NASA that this event may happen before long. HAM radio will still be working after such an event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ View Post
As an FYI, the range of a ham radio pretty much covers the world.

http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/96087524.html

Quote:
By KSEE News

Story Published: Jun 10, 2010 at 4:43 PM EDT

Story Updated: Jun 10, 2010 at 7:13 PM EDT

Scientists tell us the Sun goes through heightened solar flare activity about every 11 years, and we're due for some activity around 2013. Lately, the Sun has been quiet. So should we be worried? Well, maybe.

NASA’s astronomers say that while many of the Earth’s satellites might be in trouble, we probably aren’t. The Earth's magnetosphere generally deflects these huge bursts of energy and keeps us from cooking like something in your microwave oven.

Now, back to those satellites. Scientists say there have been big sun storms before, but we've never been this dependent on the technology they can disrupt. GPS, Internet, cell phones could be affected, as well as ATM and credit card transactions.

On the extreme end of the spectrum, if a solar flare has enough electromagnetic force, it could cause blackouts here on the ground. That's because long runs of conductive materials like copper cabling can heat up (and even melt) from the sun's increased radiation.

For a look at NASA's Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO), which tracks this sort of thing,
Good luck using your sat phone as anything other than a paper weight when this happens (and it will, just a matter of time).
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 06-11-2010, 4:01 PM
TonyM's Avatar
TonyM TonyM is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilson County, TN
Posts: 3,071
iTrader: 86 / 100%
Default

Uh Oh everyone. Seems this is JDay's new target, he must be bored with Apple...

As I said before, it works for me and I can afford it. I'm not running off to be in a HAM club, or worry about the tests. I'm invested in too many hobbies to get into HAM. Everyone I've known to get into HAM gets over-invested and usually is the type that ends up needing more sun.

Don't be such a hater, everything seems to be crap if you don't like it. I've personally refrained from commenting on your opinions in this forum that are completely wrong about the (unrelated to this topic) field I work in. You seem like a bright guy, but you don't know everything and Google can fail you.
__________________
Disenfranchised NRA Benefactor Life Member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
Also dont worry if u have never built one once you go to a build party you will know everything and have a perfect functioning rifle.

Last edited by TonyM; 06-11-2010 at 4:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 06-11-2010, 4:02 PM
TonyM's Avatar
TonyM TonyM is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilson County, TN
Posts: 3,071
iTrader: 86 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
None of what you're saying in any way affects what I said.

I don't dispute that amateur radio is a great tool to have during an emergency.

But satellite gives you a far greater range with a much better user interface for the average person. It's that simple.
Exactly.
__________________
Disenfranchised NRA Benefactor Life Member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
Also dont worry if u have never built one once you go to a build party you will know everything and have a perfect functioning rifle.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 06-11-2010, 4:24 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 56,410
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyM View Post
Uh Oh everyone. Seems this is JDay's new target, he must be bored with Apple...
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 06-11-2010, 4:43 PM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

"Good luck using your sat phone as anything other than a paper weight when this happens (and it will, just a matter of time)."



I would read the report before you start quoting alarmist news articles.

Actually, I partly take that back. The reporter didn't cite his source, so I can't really say go and read the article. IF it is the report that I suspect it is (Severe Space Weather Events--Understanding Societal and Economic Impacts: A Workshop Report), it's not nearly as bad as you think.

To expand further. Solar flares, radiation and the like are not new issues in spacecraft design. In fact, they are the *key* environmental component that the spacecraft is designed around...more so, even, than the vacuum itself (for non-habitable spacecraft). For quite some time, the radiation belts around the earth were misunderstood as far worse than they actually are, and satellites were thereby OVER-designed. Add to that the usual safety factor, and you've got some pretty damn resilient pieces of communications floating around up there. A loss of a satellite can be a billion-dollar cost...so if the owning company needs to put in an additional million or two to shield the satellite from solar flares, you bet they'll do it.

Point is...the sky is not falling, either now or in 2012.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Last edited by bigmike82; 06-11-2010 at 4:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 06-11-2010, 5:24 PM
apatomae apatomae is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 148
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Who the hell will I need to call when SHTF? God? Pizza Hutt?
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 06-11-2010, 5:30 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 56,410
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apatomae View Post
Who the hell will I need to call when SHTF?
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 06-11-2010 at 5:32 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 06-11-2010, 5:32 PM
lorax3's Avatar
lorax3 lorax3 is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Santa Clara
Posts: 4,633
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apatomae View Post
Who the hell will I need to call when SHTF?
Who you gonna call?

__________________
You think you know, but you have no idea.

The information posted here is not legal advice. If you seek legal advice hire an attorney who is familiar with all the facts of your case.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 06-11-2010, 6:37 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
"Good luck using your sat phone as anything other than a paper weight when this happens (and it will, just a matter of time)."



I would read the report before you start quoting alarmist news articles.

Actually, I partly take that back. The reporter didn't cite his source, so I can't really say go and read the article. IF it is the report that I suspect it is (Severe Space Weather Events--Understanding Societal and Economic Impacts: A Workshop Report), it's not nearly as bad as you think.
You act like it hasn't happened before and wont happen again.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-03-..._1_solar-flare

Quote:
Powerful Solar Flare Disrupts Navigation, Shortwave Radio
March 07, 1989|From United Press International

BOULDER, Colo. — The strongest solar flare in five years erupted on the face of the sun Monday, disrupting communications on Earth. It was expected to set off a brilliant show of northern lights early Wednesday.

The flare affected Coast Guard navigation systems and shortwave radio signals and was expected to affect surface and satellite communications through Wednesday, said Joe Kunches of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Space Environment Services Center.

The flare, detected at 6:05 a.m. PST, was so strong that it overwhelmed instrumentation on an NOAA satellite that measures the strength of flares, Kunches said, making it the strongest solar flare since April, 1984.

Protons from the flare were expected to reach the Earth's atmosphere late Monday and disrupt computers on many orbiting satellites, he said.

Kunches said the display of northern lights, also called the aurora borealis, should be evident early Wednesday in the northern third of the United States.

Scientists expect more flares during the next 12 days.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2977

Quote:
Massive Solar Flare Possible Again
By Joshua Hill Thursday, May 8, 2008

December 2005 saw a small solar storm disrupt satellite to ground communications and GPS navigation signals for 10 minutes. However just under a hundred and fifty years earlier, a much larger solar flare caused much greater influences than a small communications black out.

However, Louis J. Lanzerotti, retired Distinguished Member of Technical Staff at Bell Laboratories and current editor of the journal Space Weather, puts everything in to perspective: “I would not have wanted to be on a commercial airplane being guided in for a landing by GPS or on a ship being docked by GPS during that 10 minutes.”

So what would happen if a solar flare like the one that took place at 11:18 AM on the cloudless morning of Thursday, September 1, 1859 happened again?

Thirty-three-year-old Richard Carrington was the first man to witness a solar flare, or at least, he was the first scientist to have a vague understanding of what he was seeing. A preeminent astronomer of his day, Carrington was drawing sunspots using his telescope when he saw two brilliant beads of blinding white light appear over his sunspots.

Realizing that he was witnessing something unprecedented and “being somewhat flurried by the surprise,” Carrington later wrote, “I hastily ran to call someone to witness the exhibition with me. On returning within 60 seconds, I was mortified to find that it was already much changed and enfeebled.”

Just before dawn the next day however, the energy created by the solar flare, known as a coronal mass ejection (CME), struck Earth’s magnetic field, causing the global bubble of magnetism that wraps our planet safely from cosmic rays. The geomagnetic storm that followed sent enormous electric currents surging through telegraph lines, and created auroras so brilliant that the dawn sky turned to midday. So massive was this ejection that auroras were seen all the way over Cuba, the Bahamas, Jamaica, El Salvador, and Hawaii.

“What Carrington saw was a white-light solar flare—a magnetic explosion on the sun,” explains David Hathaway, solar physics team lead at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. “It’s rare that one can actually see the brightening of the solar surface. It takes a lot of energy to heat up the surface of the sun!”

Is another flare like the Carrington one likely to occur in our lifetime? Probably not, seems to be the consensus, as a Carrington-flare is evidenced to be a once every 500-year event. However, Hathaway cautions that we simply don’t know enough to rule out a repeat in our own lifetime.

The damage that could be done should a Carrington-flare occur anytime soon would be catastrophic, with estimates reaching between $30 and $70 billion. With technology so ingrained in our everyday lives, how much more will life be affected than back in a day where the telegraph was the most sophisticated form of communication?
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news...rringtonflare/

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/sp...orm/index.html

Quote:
Solar flare biggest ever recorded

Earth dodges solar bullet, for now

April 4, 2001
Web posted at: 5:49 p.m. EDT (2149 GMT)

(CNN) -- Before fading beyond the far side of the sun, one of the most turbulent sunspots in a decade spawned the biggest solar flare on record, scientists said.

Meanwhile, another large area of disturbance has emerged, one that could push more powerful solar salvos toward Earth.

On Monday, a sunspot called active region 9393 by scientists unleashed a major solar flare at 5:51 p.m. EDT. The flare is the biggest on record, according to researchers with the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, one of a fleet of spacecraft monitoring solar activity and its effects on the Earth.

The blast was even larger than a 1989 solar flare that led to the collapse of a major power grid in Canada. Radiation from the new flare was so intense it saturated the X-ray detectors on two spacecraft used by the U.S. government to determine the strength of the solar blasts.

Monday's flare also was the most powerful recorded since regular X-ray data became available in 1976. But it did not head directly toward Earth, sparing sensitive electrical and communications systems, space scientists said.

Sunspot 9393 should drift out of view within a day as the sun rotates. But active region 9415, another large sunspot emerging on the visible side of the sun, could hurl destructive solar storms our way. The new spot already produced a powerful type of solar burst on Monday.

The sun, at the peak of an 11-year cycle of activity, has become increasingly active in recent weeks. At such times the star is often rife with sunspots, relatively cool and dark regions on the surface caused by a concentration of temporarily distorted magnetic fields.

Sunspots spawn tremendous eruptions into the atmosphere, known as coronal mass ejections (CMEs), which hurl billions of tons of electrified gas and radiation into space.

Directed toward Earth, such storms can disrupt satellite communications and power grids and produce dramatic aurora displays in the northern and southern latitudes.

Several such outbursts over the past week prompted some of the best aurora displays in years, dazzling nighttime sky watchers as far south as Mexico.

A pair of CMEs that erupted earlier this week reached Earth on Wednesday. But the blow was glancing and hardly stirred up the magnetosphere, said SOHO project scientist Paal Brekke.

Sky watchers should be alert for auroras after nightfall. Almost certainly, the geomagnetic storm will be less intense than the one last weekend, scientists said.
There are many more similar reports out there.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 06-11-2010, 6:57 PM
command_liner command_liner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Heart of the Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,085
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Ham is good, but you have to practice it or know some theory for it to be
useful.

With ham, the ability to communicate rises as the factorial of the number of
nodes. For telephone service, capacity is limited to the smallest-capacity
link between the handset and any other handset in the world.

Sat phones are good, but capacity is quite limited compared to land lines and
ham.

3-watt simplex FM ham will go 100 miles if you have good equipment and
good geography. I do it a _lot_.

In a true SHTF situation, use your ham radio to talk directly to the cockpit
radio in those planes flying above. Switch to AM, tune in your local tower
frequency, identify the nature of the emergency, and talk. They will be
listening.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 06-11-2010, 7:18 PM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

Holy crap! A ten minute outage??? Whatever will we do?

"The damage that could be done should a Carrington-flare occur anytime soon would be catastrophic, with estimates reaching between $30 and $70 billion. With technology so ingrained in our everyday lives, how much more will life be affected than back in a day where the telegraph was the most sophisticated form of communication? "
Is there an actual technical source for this, or this pure FUD?

You are giving me *many* examples of temporary outages due to solar activity. What you have no presented is WIDE-SPREAD damage to the satellites. You'll find incidents of one or two breaking down there and there, but a massive destruction of the orbiting satellites IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It HASN'T happened. Nor will it. The solar activity is going to interfere with transmissions *during* the event. Not before. Not after.

I can play this "what if" game too.

What would happen if the sun suddently went nova? OH CRAP! THE END IS NEAR! We're screwed. Sell all your posessions 'cus they won't do you any good during the solar blast.

All you're posting, JDay, is articles which *SPECULATE* on the effects of a worst-case scenario solar flare on poorly manufactured satellites. And that's all it is. You will not find any evidence of systemic vulnerabilities to the satellite infrastructure caused by solar activity.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 06-11-2010, 8:07 PM
locosway's Avatar
locosway locosway is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 11,346
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP3 View Post
This will be a iPhone vs. Android thread

iPhone is like a Mac. It does what it's supposed to do, and you can't really dig into the guts to make it faster or screw it up.

Android OS phones are like a PC Linux. It does what it's supposed to do, and you can really dig into the guts to make it faster, or screw it up.
Fixed.
__________________
OCSD Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
CA DOJ Certified Instructor
Glock Certified Armorer
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 06-11-2010, 8:59 PM
mswanson223's Avatar
mswanson223 mswanson223 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 685
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I think I will stick to the CB radio
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 06-12-2010, 2:50 AM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
Holy crap! A ten minute outage??? Whatever will we do?
That was caused by a small flare that wasn't pointed directly at us. Imagine a larger one that was.

Quote:
You are giving me *many* examples of temporary outages due to solar activity. What you have no presented is WIDE-SPREAD damage to the satellites. You'll find incidents of one or two breaking down there and there, but a massive destruction of the orbiting satellites IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It HASN'T happened. Nor will it. The solar activity is going to interfere with transmissions *during* the event. Not before. Not after.
Look again, this was wide spread disruption that lasted for several days.

Quote:
All you're posting, JDay, is articles which *SPECULATE* on the effects of a worst-case scenario solar flare on poorly manufactured satellites. And that's all it is. You will not find any evidence of systemic vulnerabilities to the satellite infrastructure caused by solar activity.
Not speculation, historical fact. Look at them again and you'll see that one of those flares even knocked out a power grid.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 06-12-2010, 9:27 AM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

"Imagine a larger one that was."
There have been many large solar flares over the last two decades. Very, very few have succeeded in completely knocking out comsats. Your biggest group of victims are your scientific satellites, as organizations who sponsor them generally don't have the resources of the big guys.

"Look again, this was wide spread disruption that lasted for several days."
Again, on a scientific satellite designed to measure the strength of a solar flare.

The 89 event, which was substantially larger, also only lasted two days, interfered with GPS and did not damange any comsats. I've been unable to find any reference to any that were damaged. The GPS outage was caused by a degradation of the signal through the atmosphere. Those signals are already very very weak and received by tiny antennas. It takes much less to interfere with those signals than that of a standard satellite communications link. GPS is not equivalent to regular satellite communications signals.

"Not speculation, historical fact."
Wrong. It is speculation. There is no historical evidence that suggests that comsats are vulnerable to a large solar event. You do not have any cases where a large number of those satellites were damaged by a solar event in the past two decades. You simply don't. Saying that some hypothetically large solar storm is going to destroy our space communications infrastructure is pure, unadulterated FUD.

On a seperate note, terrestrial power grids != satellites. Power grids have a wider 'receive' area than a satellite, and because of their very design, are more susceptible. The article I mentioned earlier has some great info on this specific issue. Here's a spoiler: We, in SoCal, aren't vulnerable. (See page 79).
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 06-12-2010, 6:15 PM
CnCFunFactory's Avatar
CnCFunFactory CnCFunFactory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Beautiful 86406
Posts: 1,084
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP3 View Post
This will be a iPhone vs. Android thread

iPhone is like a Mac. It does what it's supposed to do, and you can't really dig into the guts to make it faster or screw it up.

Android OS phones are like a PC. It does what it's supposed to do, and you can really dig into the guts to make it faster, or screw it up.
Yes it will and with that said.... Iphone!
__________________
NUNQUAM NON PARATUS

Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 06-12-2010, 9:15 PM
xrMike's Avatar
xrMike xrMike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: waaaaay South Bay
Posts: 7,841
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Pardon if this is a stupid question, as I'm 3 beers down on a Saturday night, but with a SAT phone, you need some kind of provider, right? Specifically, you need to PAY some company so much money per month (or year) to access the satellites, right?

Well, in true SHTF, who is to say that THEIR infrastructure won't go down, and you therefore lose connectivity to the satellite(s)?

I mean, if you have to pay them monthly or yearly to maintain your comms, it stands to reason that they are a weak link, and if they go down, your SAT phone goes down too.

Last edited by xrMike; 06-12-2010 at 9:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-12-2010, 10:58 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrMike View Post
Pardon if this is a stupid question, as I'm 3 beers down on a Saturday night, but with a SAT phone, you need some kind of provider, right? Specifically, you need to PAY some company so much money per month (or year) to access the satellites, right?

Well, in true SHTF, who is to say that THEIR infrastructure won't go down, and you therefore lose connectivity to the satellite(s)?

I mean, if you have to pay them monthly or yearly to maintain your comms, it stands to reason that they are a weak link, and if they go down, your SAT phone goes down too.
I wouldn't rely on a sat phone for communication when SHTF, here's a good reason that I saw on another board.

http://www.whenshtf.com/showthread.p...138#post113138

Quote:
Bro- in law works for a major tel-co company, during hurricane Katrina, they where using sat phone to talk with their bases and where over powered or just downright kicked anytime FEMA or the national guard needed the line.
Satellites have limited bandwidth (that's why its so expensive to use) and it is prioritized, priority being given to the government/military.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 06-13-2010, 8:22 AM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

"here's a good reason that I saw on another board."

To counter that...

http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/globalcom/katrina.html

xrMike, here's how a satellite phone works.

You need to purchase a phone on a certain network. Satellites phones are generally not interchangeable between providers, as they're set for different frequencies, different modulations, different satellites and different encoding schemes. So when you buy a phone, you're also buying into the network provider (kind of like a cell phone, but even more restricted).

Once you have that phone, you have to prepay for minutes, or pay a monthly service charge if you're on a post-pay plan. The problem with prepay minutes is that, for Iridium specifically, those minutes expire within a certain amount of time. So if you prepay for 20 minutes, that would expire in a month. If you buy 200, those'll expire in six months, and so forth. The more you buy, the longer they stay active. It's a method that Iridium uses to ensure they keep some sort of steady revenue stream.

"Well, in true SHTF, who is to say that THEIR infrastructure won't go down"
Let me use Inmarsat as an example, because I'm more familiar with their products. Say you have a disaster of epic proportions here in Southern California. Giant 8.0 earthquake, a mega tsunamic and rioting out the wazo.

Say it affects *all* of Southern California, from Baker to San Diego to Santa Barbara. No power, no phones, no public services...all gone.

The reason satellite continues to work in these circumstances is that the key components of that satellite link are very, very far away. The satellite itself is up in space...20,000 miles away, and completely unaffected by this disaster. The earth station that receives the signal from the satellite (and from your satellite phone) is also very, very far away. In the case of Inmarsat, the earthstation is in the Netherlands (or Hawaii, or Italy). All three locations would be completely unaffected by anything that happened to you in SoCal. This is the key reason why satellite communications are so invaluable in the response component of a disaster.

Sure, if World War 3 happens, there's a good chance that the satellites will go offline (though its by no means a certainty...between the Iridium satellites, or the MILSTAR constellation, what do you think a bigger target for the Ruskies would be?).

This is not to say that satellite communication is not without its weaknesses, nor is it the end-all be-all to disaster communications. But it is very, very good at providing you with communications in a situation where the local infrastructure is overloaded or destroyed.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 06-13-2010, 9:48 AM
xMAC1x xMAC1x is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: socal
Posts: 894
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

iphone btw AT&T sucks
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 06-13-2010, 12:42 PM
Californio Californio is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 4,169
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

In a true SHTF scenario I am going to be working real hard and the only communication I will need is LOCAL, people that can directly affect my condition. Who will have time to talk outside the area? Whowill have time. I may need to call my buddies to assist me in what ever, local Comms. Satellite TV is good, wide band receiver is good, but I doubt I will have time or the desire to talk to anyone outside of the zone until its stabilized. Way to much diarrhea of the mouth in modern society, talk less and do more. If I need for any reason to touch base outside the zone, I will go talk to the 80 year-old man with the HF rigs if his tower is still standing.
__________________
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 06-13-2010, 11:19 PM
acheron800 acheron800 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Carlsbad
Posts: 751
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

I dont know about the rest of you, but ill be on my race radio, VHF, weatherman ch.

See you richard craniums after SHTF...

Offroad reference specifically: weatherman.

Seriously though, all of us offroad guys use VHF, do many normal people use it?

I am a complete radio noob btw...
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-13-2010, 11:27 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acheron800 View Post
I dont know about the rest of you, but ill be on my race radio, VHF, weatherman ch.

See you richard craniums after SHTF...

Offroad reference specifically: weatherman.

Seriously though, all of us offroad guys use VHF, do many normal people use it?

I am a complete radio noob btw...
Many people use VHF.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 06-14-2010, 8:53 AM
xrMike's Avatar
xrMike xrMike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: waaaaay South Bay
Posts: 7,841
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the satellite phone primer, big Mike.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 06-14-2010, 8:02 PM
Loner Loner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 682
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post

You can get internet access with a HAM radio and a BNC.
Wait, what?
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-14-2010, 8:33 PM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

"Wait, what?"
Yeah, it's kinda cool. You can use internet via ham radio if you've got the correct equipment on each end.

Just a huge caveat. Don't even think about doing anything work related using this method, as it is illegal. The ARRL book I read for my basic license emphasized this repeatedly. Anything even remotely resembling business can not be done over amateur frequencies.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 06-14-2010, 8:55 PM
KillZone45 KillZone45 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Idaho or on the road again(cue Willie Nelson)
Posts: 2,570
iTrader: 12 / 83%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acheron800 View Post
See you richard craniums after SHTF...

Offroad reference specifically: weatherman.
HAHA rad, a fellow deZert racing junkie here
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 06-14-2010, 9:07 PM
sevensix2x51's Avatar
sevensix2x51 sevensix2x51 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: sandy eggo
Posts: 3,835
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

i cant believe i read all 3 pages...

you guys are dorks. when shtf, im going to be too concerned with finding rabbits and water than to fiddle with some radio crap.

OP- i understand the jest in your thread, so my opinion is to get anything but an apple. my nokia e71x is a great phone, but im always looking for something new, so i have my -free- hp ipaq glisten in the mail from at&t. i have to have a qwerty physical keyboard on a phone, as i want to text fast without errors, and hate predictive text. it pisses me off.cuz when the zombies and red chinese fascist commies are busting down the door, i gotta be able to text "hugs n kisses" to the old lady in nanoseconds. sorry for late reply. aint bin 'round for a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 06-14-2010, 9:08 PM
Loner Loner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 682
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
"Wait, what?"
Yeah, it's kinda cool. You can use internet via ham radio if you've got the correct equipment on each end.

Just a huge caveat. Don't even think about doing anything work related using this method, as it is illegal. The ARRL book I read for my basic license emphasized this repeatedly. Anything even remotely resembling business can not be done over amateur frequencies.
How does it exactly work? Would there be signal sound of some sort, like the old 56k days? And what about encryption?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-14-2010, 9:55 PM
XYZ's Avatar
XYZ XYZ is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,481
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevensix2x51 View Post
i cant believe i read all 3 pages...

you guys are dorks. when shtf, im going to be too concerned with finding rabbits and water than to fiddle with some radio crap.
If you had an amateur radio you could be asking someone else if they have any rabbits or water or where they got theirs .
__________________

NRA Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:58 PM
bigmike82 bigmike82 is offline
Bit Pusher
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: W. Los Angeles
Posts: 3,878
iTrader: 69 / 100%
Default

"How does it exactly work? Would there be signal sound of some sort, like the old 56k days? And what about encryption? "
Depends. There are various different modulation schemes that you can use. I don't know much of the technical details behind this within the Ham world, but it is as easy as grabbing two modems (one on either end) and connecting them via an open frequency. You plug in one modem to the network, and your computer into the other, and suddenly you've got access.

Google Packet Radio and AX.25, and go from there. If you don't have an amateur license, get one first and see what kind of local clubs you've got access to. Someone there is bound to have a working setup they may let you look at / play with.

The signal you send out can not be encrypted. I don't know the correct laws for it, but I do remember reading something to that effect in my study guide.
__________________
-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:49 AM
jarhead995 jarhead995 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,209
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Droid Incredible.

it really is Incredible I've used the Iphone, Moto Droid, and Droid and Droid Incredible

The Incredible is just so fast, light, and skinny, I wish I could have it.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 06-15-2010, 6:34 PM
sevensix2x51's Avatar
sevensix2x51 sevensix2x51 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: sandy eggo
Posts: 3,835
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ View Post
If you had an amateur radio you could be asking someone else if they have any rabbits or water or where they got theirs .
felt compelled to poop in thi thread, it was getting waay too serious in here.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 06-15-2010, 9:06 PM
JDay's Avatar
JDay JDay is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 19,393
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loner View Post
Wait, what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio

Quote:
Amateur radio operators began experimenting with packet radio in 1978, when after obtaining authorization from the Canadian government, Robert Rouleau, VE2PY and The Western Quebec VHF/UHF Amateur Radio Club in Montreal, Canada began experimenting with transmitting ASCII encoded data over VHF amateur radio frequencies using homebuilt equipment.[2] In 1980, Doug Lockhart, VE7APU and the Vancouver Area Digital Communications Group (VADCG) in Vancouver, Canada began producing standardized equipment (Terminal Node Controllers) in quantity for use in amateur radio packet radio networks. In 2003, Rouleau was inducted into CQ Amateur Radio magazine's hall of fame for his work on the Montreal Protocol in 1978.[3]

Not long after this activity began in Canada, amateurs in the US became interested in packet radio, and in 1980, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) granted authorization for U.S. amateurs to transmit ASCII codes via amateur radio.[4] The first known amateur packet radio activity in the US occurred in San Francisco in December of 1980 when a packet repeater was put into operation on 2 meters by Hank Magnuski, KA6M and the Pacific Packet Radio Society (PPRS).[5] In keeping with the dominance of DARPA and ARPANET at this time, the nascent amateur packet radio network was dubbed the AMPRNet, in DARPA style and Magnuski had obtained IP address allocations in the 44.0.0.0 network for amateur radio use worldwide.

Many groups of amateur radio operators interested in packet radio soon formed throughout the country including the Pacific Packet Radio Society (PPRS) in California, the Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Corporation (TAPR) in Arizona and the Amateur Radio Research and Development Corporation (AMRAD) in Washington, D.C.[6]

By 1983, TAPR was offering the first TNC available in kit form. Packet radio started becoming more and more popular across North America and by 1984 the first packet based bulletin board systems began to appear. Packet radio proved its value for emergency operations following the crash of an Aeromexico airliner in a neighborhood in Cerritos, California the weekend of Labor Day 1986. Volunteers linked several key sites to pass text traffic via packet radio while keeping the voice frequencies clear.

For an objective description of early developments in amateur packet radio, refer to the article "Packet Radio in the Amateur Service".[7]

The most common use of packet radio today is in amateur radio, to construct wireless computer networks. Its name is a reference to the use of packet switching between network nodes. Packet radio networks use the AX.25 data link layer protocol, derived from the X.25 protocol suite and adapted for amateur radio use.
__________________
Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace. -- James Madison

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (Pearce and Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:02 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy