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  #1  
Old 02-12-2010, 12:13 PM
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Default how does "big brother" know what you're doing

a question for the infotech guys. so i'm in an area where pr0n isn't allowed anywhere in the country. i'm at a base that has wireless internet. it's run by the base and not by the host nation. it's rumored a person actually got in trouble for having skype sex with his wife. how is "big brother" able to know that they were skype sexing and how are they able to find out who the guy was being that the internet was wireless? i asked around and some think it's a FUD scare tactic, but others say they can see everything you do on you're computer monitor. makes me wonder if it's safe to check my bank account using the wireless connection.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:27 PM
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It's somewhere in between.

Unless there's some sort of program installed on the machine that records the activities (or there's a camera set up watching the screen), they can not see what's on the monitor.

That said...given a good packet analysis tool, they can pretty much reproduce *any* non-encrypted traffic that leaves your machine. Emails, VoIP calls, video streams...it's all fair game. Encrypting the traffic does make it more difficult to spoof, but if they're in charge of the network, it's possible for them to MITM (man-in-the-middle) that encrypted session, especially if it's only SSL (used mainly for encrypting websites).
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:27 PM
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use a proxy
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Old 02-12-2010, 1:42 PM
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will using a proxy make me anonymous? won't that make me more vulnerable? foxyproxy with firefox ftw?
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Old 02-12-2010, 1:44 PM
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They read your brain waves. Oh man, I hope they didn't hear that.
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Old 02-12-2010, 1:59 PM
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will using a proxy make me anonymous? won't that make me more vulnerable? foxyproxy with firefox ftw?
end of the day it matters who big bro is.. if he has three letters. you are SOL either way...
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Old 02-12-2010, 2:08 PM
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If it is the Military that is running the server that makes the hard connection to the World Wide Interweb, they sure can see everything going on at any particular computer.

I have seen the Comm Group people with a wall of monitors with randomly chosen computer screens showing exactly what was being done on each computer.

There is no way they can live monitor every single computer at the same time, but they have the capability to mirror every single thing going on on all the computers.
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:22 PM
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When I was in SWA, a guy got busted for looking at pr0n on one of the PC's at our worksite. I don't know how they found out, but they did.

He went from E4 to E2 overnight.
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:23 PM
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Trying to cover your tracks can be viewed in a very negative way. service in and out of any military or government facility is heavily monitored for all the reasons that it needs to be. Even if they don't know it's you but see the traffic in especially if it's through TOR ect there going to find out wtf's going on just in case of espionage at the very least.
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:24 PM
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give us an address and we'll get some porn sent to you
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:30 PM
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yea dude def dont try TOR
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:31 PM
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some o6 used my desktop to look at whatever he wanted too after hours....

GROSSSSS! last i heard.. the was trying to dodge the book they threw at him.
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:50 PM
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If a simple computer tech in India can troubleshoot a computer in the US thru screen sharing session, they (military) definately has the capability to remotely look into your computer.
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Old 02-12-2010, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkHorse View Post
When I was in SWA, a guy got busted for looking at pr0n on one of the PC's at our worksite. I don't know how they found out, but they did.

He went from E4 to E2 overnight.
well yeah on a goverment PC it's obvious they'll get busted. but i was talking about people's personal PC's
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Old 02-13-2010, 7:36 PM
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I've long suspected the IT dept can view what's on your monitor. I know there are programs where you can take over the screen and mouse of any computer as if it were your own. Seems it would be a much easier task to just monitor the screen so why not?
There's a huge difference between sniffing traffic being transmitted over a network and viewing what's actually being displayed on a monitor.

In order to actually view what's being displayed on a computer's screen that info in it's entirety has to be transmitted to another machine over the network. This is done all the time. See here: Virtual Network Computing. Viewing someone's screen without their knowledge or permission would require you to install software of this type onto their computer and turn on the necessary network services without their knowledge. Doing this remotely is so close to impossible that it might as well be.

However, any traffic you send or receive over the internet can be viewed by anyone with access to a computer positioned between you and the information source. See image below:



Your computer would be any of the ones on the far right side, on the LAN. The machine labeled "Proxy Server" sits between your computer and the rest of the Internet. Anyone with access to the proxy server and the proper knowledge can see what you're sending or receiving over the Internet. If they have access to the proxy, it's a safe bet they know what they're doing. For instance, if you type "OMG i can haz pr0n" into the Google search box, they can view that text going out. They can also see all the pr0n that Google responds with coming back in.

Are there ways around this to hide your privacy? Sure. Do you want to try to circumvent this setup at a .mil installation? Probably not. I'm sure you'll attract far more attention by attempting to hide what you're doing than by actually browsing a few pr0n sites. That, and unless you're absolutely certain that your Tiger Style is more powerful than your SysAdmin's Dragon Style, you're probably gonna get busted.

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Old 02-13-2010, 7:53 PM
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you want to be sneaky with porn? get it sent in pieces. like a jigsaw puzzle.

of course someone who sends it in email/snail mail will have to get creative and not make it obvious by just cutting it in squares or sending it all at once. or hide it by painting over it with a water soluble ink. like get those porn jigsaw puzzles, and have them paint over it with water color to hide the real image and when you receive it, just wipe it with a moist towel and reveal the real picture.

but then again i'm sure the mail guys in the military have thought of that too?
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Old 02-13-2010, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkHorse View Post
When I was in SWA, a guy got busted for looking at pr0n on one of the PC's at our worksite. I don't know how they found out, but they did.

He went from E4 to E2 overnight.
At my last job, we were taken on a tour of the IT facilities.
All traffic in and out went through the corporate server.
Every web address request from every machine was logged.
Unacceptable sites were pre-blocked.
Unlisted sites that generated a lot of traffic during working hours were visited by the IT staff. If they were not related to the business, they were added to the blocked list of sites.

Also, all email communications routed through, and were stored, on the corporate Access server. The company had government contracts, so there was a requirement to store all emails whether the user deleted them or not.

They didn't log the actual traffic... simply the destinations.
If he was surfing pr0n, he was probably not doing it from Calguns.

One of my first boss's duties involved programming. Some of his programming tools and references came from "questionable" sites... and more than once he was called into IT and questioned about accessing sites that were known for piracy/cracking.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2010, 8:31 PM
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OK I LOL'd on that one.

Got to watch the accidental pr0n too. Once I was doing market research on semiconductor companies, and I figured out that I could skip the Google search and just type the company name in the URL address bar. This will expand the company name to its web address. Worked fine for most chip companies, Intel, Motorola, Texas Instruments, but when I tried that with Maxim Semiconductor, I typed in "Maxim" and got a little surprise, a gentleman's magazine instead of a chip maker website. I immediately ran down to the IT dept and told them what happened, then made sure it was documented in writing, copy to HR and my boss, in case it later came up that they needed to find something to hang me with.

I've long suspected the IT dept can view what's on your monitor. I know there are programs where you can take over the screen and mouse of any computer as if it were your own. Seems it would be a much easier task to just monitor the screen so why not?
Yeah thats true, thats why you NEVER get a computer with a built in camera. Ever wonder how they get all that voyuer pr0n. Remember the last thing you were doing while your computer was facing you?
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Old 02-13-2010, 8:43 PM
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Yeah thats true, thats why you NEVER get a computer with a built in camera. Ever wonder how they get all that voyuer pr0n. Remember the last thing you were doing while your computer was facing you?
Someone would need physical access to the computer in order to install software that would activate the camera and record video. Such software exists and has legitimate purposes but it can't be installed remotely without the user's consent.

Protip: Most voyeur pr0n is staged.

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Old 02-13-2010, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbarossa View Post
They read your brain waves. Oh man, I hope they didn't hear that.
(lalalalala Pelosi lalalalalalla)
I heard that if you stick your right pinky in your left ear while smearing rotting bannanas on your face, it will block all outgoing signals from the chips "they" have installed in our brains.
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Old 02-14-2010, 5:10 AM
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It's somewhere in between.

Unless there's some sort of program installed on the machine that records the activities (or there's a camera set up watching the screen), they can not see what's on the monitor.

That said...given a good packet analysis tool, they can pretty much reproduce *any* non-encrypted traffic that leaves your machine. Emails, VoIP calls, video streams...it's all fair game. Encrypting the traffic does make it more difficult to spoof, but if they're in charge of the network, it's possible for them to MITM (man-in-the-middle) that encrypted session, especially if it's only SSL (used mainly for encrypting websites).

Thats not entirely true....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:55 AM
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The scenario I'm considering is one in which the computer was issued to you by the organization that is supplying you with the access to the net. In the case of a corporation, it's the corporate issue laptop that's been pre-configured with the standard corporate software load, which could include the screen monitoring software.
If that's the case, then yes it's possible. I think it's unlikely that they would do this surreptitiously. If I were the sysadmin I'd make it quite clear that I had the ability to both see your Internet traffic and view your screen any time I felt like it. Also, ethically I'd have a hard time viewing another adult's screen without their knowledge unless I already had reason to suspect that they were violating a company policy or law in the first place. That's why most VNC software can tell you you're being observed.

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Are the laptops used by deployed soldiers supplied by the military or are they personal machines? In either case I can see the military putting the required monitoring software on there to ensure compliance with the no-pr0n laws.
I'm pretty sure they're personal machines. I don't think the military installs anything on them either. In fact, I'm not sure they would be allowed to do so. It wouldn't really be necessary anyway. If you're on my network there are ways I can keep tabs on you without extra software.

One good policy is to require MAC address registration before a computer can join the network. That way I know exactly which machines belong to which users, and figuring out who is surfing tijuanadonkeyshow.com during work hours is not difficult.

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Anything's possible, but I'm much more worried about what's probable. Van Eck is really cool stuff though. I always wanted to try to build a Van Eck box but I don't have the time or the money.

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  #23  
Old 02-15-2010, 12:47 PM
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I'm pretty sure they're personal machines. I don't think the military installs anything on them either. In fact, I'm not sure they would be allowed to do so. It wouldn't really be necessary anyway. If you're on my network there are ways I can keep tabs on you without extra software.

One good policy is to require MAC address registration before a computer can join the network. That way I know exactly which machines belong to which users, and figuring out who is surfing tijuanadonkeyshow.com during work hours is not difficult.
yeah the PCs i was talking about are personal laptops people bring with them. they don't get registered with the base. it's just free wi-fi all around. so that brings me back to the my original post of how some people think it's FUD. i can't figure out how the comm guys know who's doing what on their personal computers when they don't get registered with the comm office. i'd ask the comm guys myself but i don't know any.
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Last edited by racky; 02-15-2010 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 02-15-2010, 4:30 PM
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I would imagine the military IT guys (at a minimum) check the traffic incoming and outgoing to be sure there isn't any classified info being disclosed.
now that is what they're really good at. a person would get a pretty bad nasty-gram when something gets sent out and isn't supposed to.

so back to the pr0n, everyone send me their pr0n now that know it's unsafe. it's lonely here . so the whole foxyproxy thing isn't safe right?
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Old 02-15-2010, 4:34 PM
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a question for the infotech guys. so i'm in an area where pr0n isn't allowed anywhere in the country. i'm at a base that has wireless internet. it's run by the base and not by the host nation. it's rumored a person actually got in trouble for having skype sex with his wife. how is "big brother" able to know that they were skype sexing and how are they able to find out who the guy was being that the internet was wireless? i asked around and some think it's a FUD scare tactic, but others say they can see everything you do on you're computer monitor. makes me wonder if it's safe to check my bank account using the wireless connection.
Skype sets off alarm bells on the non-secure Internet ("nipper net") big time. All traffic across the NPRNET is scanned in both direction as it crosses though the gateway firewalls connecting the military networks to the civilian Internet, Skype port numbers are well known. Within minutes someone is capturing and looking at the traffic. One of my contractors connected into a wireless access point and within a couple hours the phone call came into IT to pull the pull and provide an explanation.
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Old 02-15-2010, 4:36 PM
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give us an address and we'll get some porn sent to you
Lol exactly! Well get ya some stuff! just pm youre shipping.We got ya! To answer youre question. EVERYTHING you do at a foreign base down to a fob is tracked and recorded. Especially fobs and bases in "combat zones" its not always about the "porn" and such mainly its to prevent the dissemination of critical information to the wrong people. yea the rules pertaining to porn and stuff kindof suck but theres a reason for everything..(well sometimes) but youre still safe checking your accounts and such, everything they do is monitored and those monitors are monitored..There just making sure no ones freely giving haji intel..
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Old 02-15-2010, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I heard that if you stick your right pinky in your left ear while smearing rotting bannanas on your face, it will block all outgoing signals from the chips "they" have installed in our brains.
My neighbor is a dentist and he says it's in the fillings of your teeth. He said they can track every movement you make, and everything you do. So they even know about The hair growing from your palms. muhahahaha...
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Old 02-16-2010, 8:00 AM
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just remember big brother invented the internet...
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Old 02-16-2010, 8:09 AM
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"Even if it were just someone surfing pr0n, they have your IP address on every web page request and it's a simple matter to sniff the other packets you send on a daily basis to identify you. Your email packets would have that same IP address on 'em, etc"
Not always. Depending on the DHCP lease-time, you can have a different IP on different days.

And if you use, say, a Linux machine and change the MAC on your wireless card, you could browse for hours without being caught (changing your MAC every time you're blocked). Note that I do NOT recommend doing this, as you *will* get caught if you set off enough red flags. They may not be able to track you via the normal monitoring, but what they *can* do is triangulate your position fairly accurately. Then, all it takes is the guy pulling the camera feed, seeing you, and you'll have a nice little visit by your local MPs.

This is why you have friends with thumb drives back state-side.
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Old 02-17-2010, 8:55 AM
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just remember big brother invented the internet...
Al Gore is Big Brother?
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Old 02-17-2010, 8:14 PM
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Al Gore is Big Brother?
Nahh... he's being serious.

The internet was originally (mid '70s) constructed for communication between military and educational institutions.
It was a DARPA project, commissioned in 1958 after Sputnik flew.

The first web server was set up around mid 1991.
In mid 1994, it was still only getting around 100k hits per day.
The WWW was a CERN project.
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:35 PM
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Use an encrypted proxy and they wont know what you're doing on the net.
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Old 02-19-2010, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
Use an encrypted proxy and they wont know what you're doing on the net.
Won't work if you're going through a local business or government gateway server.
The connection to the proxy would be logged and probably investigated.
Every outside destination IP address is logged if the gateway's server is configured to do so.

There's a good possibility that the destination IP addresses for known encrypted proxies would be blocked.
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 02-19-2010, 6:26 PM
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Default Student claims school spied on him via computer webcam

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho...er_webcam.html

FBI is investigating.

http://cbs3.com/local/Lower.Merion.S...2.1506516.html
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Old 02-19-2010, 7:27 PM
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you guys think you need th enetwork to see what someone's doing?

you should read up on van eck phreaking. cliff notes is you intercept the radio signal bleeding from the monitor / video cable, and decode that into the original signal. someone can see your monitor from whatever range they can catch the signal at.
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Old 02-20-2010, 2:24 AM
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I'll believe it when they make the specs public.

"OMG, dudz, we can spy on your monitorz with our l33t super secret intercept gadget."

I'm skeptical. Not saying it can't happen...but I'm skeptical until there's actually independent research done to verify.
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Old 02-20-2010, 9:54 AM
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I'll believe it when they make the specs public.

"OMG, dudz, we can spy on your monitorz with our l33t super secret intercept gadget."

I'm skeptical. Not saying it can't happen...but I'm skeptical until there's actually independent research done to verify.
if you're talking about my post on van eck phreaking, look it up. very possible to do.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:56 AM
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I did look it up.

I want to see a system that works from across the street. I'm not saying it's not possible, but everything I've read is purely theoretical (or in the case of the eckbox implementation, only works when you are right next to the monitor). Give the strength of the signals leaving the monitor, you'd need a very large array of antennas to capture the signal in any meaningful fashion. It's cool from a theoretical standpoint, but until I see an actual practical implementation, I will remain skeptical.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
I did look it up.

I want to see a system that works from across the street. I'm not saying it's not possible, but everything I've read is purely theoretical (or in the case of the eckbox implementation, only works when you are right next to the monitor). Give the strength of the signals leaving the monitor, you'd need a very large array of antennas to capture the signal in any meaningful fashion. It's cool from a theoretical standpoint, but until I see an actual practical implementation, I will remain skeptical.
just because you can not find info about it on the internet does not mean it does not exist.
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Old 02-20-2010, 1:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Won't work if you're going through a local business or government gateway server.
The connection to the proxy would be logged and probably investigated.
Every outside destination IP address is logged if the gateway's server is configured to do so.

There's a good possibility that the destination IP addresses for known encrypted proxies would be blocked.
Well since the user is on a US base that wouldn't matter since they're technically in the US. Host countries laws don't matter at that point.
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