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  #1801  
Old 05-11-2018, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsloth View Post
So I must have the record for the fastest turnaround time in this thread. Mailed my BOF-1008 certified on 5/5. Showed delivered on 5/9. Received that phone call on 5/10 and SN's were issued this morning 5/11.

Get your forms in guys! It's not too late.
Certified faster than email?
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  #1802  
Old 05-11-2018, 3:03 PM
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And is there a help sheet for BOF2008 AR pistols prior to AW registration? i ant afford to mess this up ( Ie; I dont know exactly in 2016 when I made my AR pistol).
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  #1803  
Old 05-11-2018, 9:58 PM
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I made a new thread but someone suggested I post here instead.

Lower was engraved per ATF a few year back and included a serial number.

Did the 1008 form and received a DOJ serial number. Turn-around from the time of initial email to receiving DOJ assigned serial number was 2 days. Hoping someone here can provide some insight on the two questions I have.

1) Can the DOJ serial number go anywhere on lower as long as it is visible? Thinking of putting the FMBUS# over the trigger pins on the left side.

2) Does the FMBUS# need to be prefaced with something (such as "DOJ SN:") to make it distinguishable from the one already self-assigned and engraved? Thinking no as other firearms just stamp or engrave serial number but wanted to see how others have done it.

Thanks much.
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  #1804  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:12 PM
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That is a very interesting situation, and curious how LE will handle running guns with two serial numbers.

You can not legally obscure, remove, or deface the serial number, so there is no way on the lower to discern between the DOJ number and your original number other than the format.

But the DOJ number is in the format "FMBUS#####" correct? If so, then it will be readily apparent to LE after they have all gone through the training memos.

Personally, I would put it where the rest of the markings are, or at least on the same side.

But legally, there is no regulation that dictates where it must be engraved in relation to any other markings.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #1805  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:16 PM
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CA DOJ is falling back on federal ATF engraving requirements so it can be anywhere conspicuous, at least 1/16” high and at least 0.003” deep. NFA engravers are quite creative within those restrictions. I’m personally putting my DOJ engraving on the front of the magwell and bottom of integral trigger guards.

You don’t need to preface it with anything. The ‘FMBUS’ is enough of a preface.

Personally, I’m engraving all the DOJ required info in one place like this

Tony Stark
Malibu, CA
FMBUS0001
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  #1806  
Old 05-12-2018, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
That is a very interesting situation, and curious how LE will handle running guns with two serial numbers.

You can not legally obscure, remove, or deface the serial number, so there is no way on the lower to discern between the DOJ number and your original number other than the format.

But the DOJ number is in the format "FMBUS#####" correct? If so, then it will be readily apparent to LE after they have all gone through the training memos.

Personally, I would put it where the rest of the markings are, or at least on the same side.

But legally, there is no regulation that dictates where it must be engraved in relation to any other markings.
Thanks Cokebottle.

The instruction that came with the DOJ assigned serial says to place the DOJ serial number in the"Serial Number" field when registering the firearm then place the self-assigned serial number in the "Other Number" field. Maybe when the LE runs a number (either one) it checks both places in the database for a match?

And yes, the DOJ assigned begins with "FMBUS" then four numbers.
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  #1807  
Old 05-12-2018, 7:16 AM
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Quiet was kind enough to respond to the independent threat I created asking for help. His post from that thread helped so i thought it would help others here as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet
11 CCR 5519
A firearm manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic shall contain its unique serial number on 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel. This stainless steel piece shall be embedded within the plastic receiver or frame upon the firearm’s manufacture or assembly.

11 CCR 5520
(a) The Department shall issue a unique serial number to the applicant only if the applicant is eligible to possess or own a firearm. Once the Department issues a unique serial number it shall be applied to the self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm as follows:
(1) Upon receiving a Department-issued unique serial number, the applicant may contact a Federal Firearms Licensed Manufacturer (type 07) to have the unique serial number applied to the firearm in a manner consistent with this section and federal law. However, a Federal Firearms Licensee is under no obligation to perform this work. The applicant may also use an unlicensed party to apply the unique serial number and other required markings to the firearm; however, the owner of the firearm shall not leave the firearm unattended with an unlicensed party or the applicant will be in violation of Penal Code section 27545. Finally, the applicant may personally apply the unique serial number to the firearm if the applicant complies with the requirements set out below in subsection (2) of this section. Proof of the engraved unique serial number on the firearm shall be given to the Department in the form of digital images of the newly serialized firearm. These digital images shall be submitted on CFARS in accordance with the digital image requirement noted in section 5521 of these regulations.
(2) The applicant shall legibly and uniquely mark and identify each self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm as follows:
(A) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise permanently placing in a conspicuous location on the receiver or frame of the firearm or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof the unique serial number. The unique serial number shall be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and shall not duplicate any serial number placed by the unlicensed manufacturer on any other firearm. The engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number shall be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
(B) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information that is mentioned below. This information shall be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. The additional information shall include:
(i) The model of the firearm, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge of the firearm;
(iii) The manufacturer’s first and last name as provided to the Department for recording purposes, when applicable; and
(iv) The city and state (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where the manufacturer made the firearm.
(3) The depth of all markings required by this section shall be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(2)(A) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).
(4) The Department shall deny the applicant’s unique serial number application if it determines the above described marking requirements have not been met.

11 CCR 5507
(h) “Conspicuously” means that all required markings shall be placed in such a manner as to be wholly unobstructed from plain view.
(o) “Legibly marked” means using exclusively Roman letters (A, a, B, b, C, c, and so forth) and numbers.
shaocaholica - from reading the above, it sounds like you should be fine. All this stuff hurts my head so please don't consider me as even being in the same room as a knowledgeable person.
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  #1808  
Old 05-12-2018, 8:14 AM
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What are people putting down for the "model" for volreg? What does the "frame only" question mean? Does it mean just a receiver? I'm going to volreg my AR pistol.
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  #1809  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gunrus View Post
What are people putting down for the "model" for volreg? What does the "frame only" question mean? Does it mean just a receiver? I'm going to volreg my AR pistol.
Same questions;I am trying to voluntary register five 80%'s with ARmaglocks. Also, we do we need to add pictures also? I didn't do that when I moved back from Florida
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  #1810  
Old 05-12-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by veeklog View Post
Same questions;I am trying to voluntary register five 80%'s with ARmaglocks. Also, we do we need to add pictures also? I didn't do that when I moved back from Florida
No pictures required for Vol-Reg.
That only applies to BBRAW applications.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #1811  
Old 05-12-2018, 11:50 AM
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So after 7/1 and onwards, after completing my 80% build I should file the BOF 1008 to get a serial, then file a BOF 4542A? But since starting 2019 possession of an unmarked home build is unlawful, do you apply for the FMBUS# first before building?
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  #1812  
Old 05-12-2018, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
No pictures required for Vol-Reg.
That only applies to BBRAW applications.
Beautiful! I was sick of the taking pictures and doing all the nutty things for my BBRAW, jumping hoops since Decmeber, and finally getting my letter last week. the thought of doing it all over again would have made me ill.
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  #1813  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:03 PM
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Default ar pistol build sometimes in 2016

ar pistol that was build from 80 lower in 2016 and converted to semi auto, to make it legal after July i have to change bullet button to v2/fix mag and engrave info. Aim i getting right?
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  #1814  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by oleg114208 View Post
ar pistol that was build from 80 lower in 2016 and converted to semi auto, to make it legal after July i have to change bullet button to v2/fix mag and engrave info. Aim i getting right?
Correct.
All needs to be done before July 1, including VolReg.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #1815  
Old 05-12-2018, 10:39 PM
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volger required? and i can still keep 10 rounds fixed mag? Do i mark it as semi auto or single shot?

Last edited by oleg114208; 05-12-2018 at 10:43 PM..
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  #1816  
Old 05-12-2018, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by oleg114208 View Post
volger required? and i can still keep 10 rounds fixed mag? Do i mark it as semi auto or single shot?
Vol Reg is required.
It must be in a centralized database.


Yes, it MUST remain in a configuration with 10rd fixed magazine (with 2017-compliant magazine lock, not the bullet button)
Register it as a semi-auto. If DOJ questions (they won't), it was constructed in 2015 (or before) as a dimensionally-compliant single shot and converted to semi-auto prior to 2017.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #1817  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:37 AM
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what do i put for date acquired? date it was build?
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  #1818  
Old 05-13-2018, 12:57 AM
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Ballpark it. You built it. They werent watching over your shoulder and who was to know 4 or 5 years ago building these in our garage that they would pass a new law demanding such information.
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Originally Posted by oleg114208 View Post
what do i put for date acquired? date it was build?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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  #1819  
Old 05-13-2018, 1:20 AM
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Anyone knows a place in Sacramento that do engraving?
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  #1820  
Old 05-13-2018, 3:21 PM
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UPDATED AB 857, FEB 2, 2018 (proposed)
Members asking where to find info on Home Built Firearms Regs for self serialized NON AW(fixed mag/featureless).

AB 857
TITLE 11, Division 5, Article 3, subsection 5508(c)
As shown above: PROPOSED
Interpret at your own risk.

PLEASE: Don't shoot the messenger.

LINK:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2018...n-requirements

CLICK ON PROPOSED REGULATIONS
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  #1821  
Old 05-14-2018, 9:23 AM
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Guys, im trying to volreg and have a few questions
1. What do I put under "model"?
2. What do i put under "frame only"?
3. Wha do I put for firearm color? Right now its raw aluminum silver but I plan to cerakote in he future

Last edited by customiiguy; 05-14-2018 at 9:26 AM..
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  #1822  
Old 05-14-2018, 9:26 AM
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Article 3. Self-assembled Firearms Not Affected by this Chapter.
§ 5508. Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181.

The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:

A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual’s firearm already has a
serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally
complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for
a Department-issued unique serial number.


Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations
§5842. Identification of firearms
(a) Identification of firearms other than destructive devices
Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.




I was reading the regulations and found this. I put the important stuff in bold. I AM NOT A LAWYER FYI

Last edited by iDmac; 05-14-2018 at 9:31 AM..
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  #1823  
Old 05-14-2018, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDmac View Post
Article 3. Self-assembled Firearms Not Affected by this Chapter.
§ 5508. Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181.

The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:

A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual’s firearm already has a
serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally
complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for
a Department-issued unique serial number.


Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations
§5842. Identification of firearms
(a) Identification of firearms other than destructive devices
Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.




I was reading the regulations and found this. I put the important stuff in bold
Unfortunately, one needs to check the definition of "firearm" as used in those regulations, as it applies to NFA items; not what you and I think of when we use the term "firearm".

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845

Quote:
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon
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  #1824  
Old 05-14-2018, 11:30 AM
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I have quick question, I know it’s maybe in the 46 pages on here. But if I have 1911 80% builds that I finish 2-3 years ago and are engrave with my info meeting atf standards, do I still need to register them or don’t. Am lost as most of the info I see is & read is for rifles builds! I will greatly appreciate Help advise.
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  #1825  
Old 05-14-2018, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arellaj9 View Post
I have quick question, I know it’s maybe in the 46 pages on here. But if I have 1911 80% builds that I finish 2-3 years ago and are engrave with my info meeting atf standards, do I still need to register them or don’t. Am lost as most of the info I see is & read is for rifles builds! I will greatly appreciate Help advise.
You would need to do the VolReg by June 30, 2018 to not have to have a DOJ assigned serial number. The "ghost gun" law requires self-built to be registered so you may as well do it now as you already engraved with a serial number.
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  #1826  
Old 05-14-2018, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arellaj9 View Post
I have quick question, I know it’s maybe in the 46 pages on here. But if I have 1911 80% builds that I finish 2-3 years ago and are engrave with my info meeting atf standards, do I still need to register them or don’t. Am lost as most of the info I see is & read is for rifles builds! I will greatly appreciate Help advise.
This thread may help provide additional info.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1446815
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  #1827  
Old 05-14-2018, 1:25 PM
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EDITED

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  #1828  
Old 05-14-2018, 2:34 PM
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[=ca

Last edited by Arellaj9; 05-22-2018 at 10:10 AM..
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  #1829  
Old 05-14-2018, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbas101 View Post
Just to clarify - it could have been built in 2016 or before, correct? You wrote 2015.

Thanks
SSE v2.0 kicked in January 2016.
2016 builds needed to be completed as break-top bolt action.
"Manufacturing" definition was expanded January 2017.


2015 builds simply needed to be single-shot dimensionally-compliant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #1830  
Old 05-15-2018, 7:15 AM
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Smh Im looking at my lower and I just realized the model engraving is missing. Is that really mandatory?
I have my name . City/state,sn, caliber markings

Last edited by customiiguy; 05-15-2018 at 7:18 AM..
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  #1831  
Old 05-15-2018, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by customiiguy View Post
Smh Im looking at my lower and I just realized the model engraving is missing. Is that really mandatory?
I have my name . City/state,sn, caliber markings
If you are going to register as an AW then the DOJ is going to require you have a model when you apply for a serial number using form 1008. If I remember reading it correctly. They are also going to require you have HSC or FSC I think.
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  #1832  
Old 05-15-2018, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnote View Post
They are also going to require you have HSC or FSC I think.
They say to put in your FSC or HSC "if applicable".

What I don't know, is if that means you can leave it blank if you don't have one.

When I did mine, I left the FSC line blank and attached a note that said "I have a CA CCW and am exempt from the FSC requirement", and they were fine with that. I didn't even include my CCW number or a copy of it or anything. So I don't think they're being too picky about it.
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  #1833  
Old 05-15-2018, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnote View Post
If you are going to register as an AW then the DOJ is going to require you have a model when you apply for a serial number using form 1008. If I remember reading it correctly. They are also going to require you have HSC or FSC I think.
Im not registering for AW. I was going to volreg. Do I still need to have a model engraved or can I just put ar15?
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  #1834  
Old 05-15-2018, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by customiiguy View Post
Smh Im looking at my lower and I just realized the model engraving is missing. Is that really mandatory?
I have my name . City/state,sn, caliber markings
They are going to check that your engraving matches the application.
Add the model so it matches your application.
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Old 05-15-2018, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
They are going to check that your engraving matches the application.
Add the model so it matches your application.
For AW, but if it's just a VolReg, there's no photos submitted with it for them to reference. The only potential reference would be if there comes reason for LE to run the numbers through AFS.

That doesn't mean that it's compliant without the engraving, just as there's nothing to stop someone from sending in a VolReg for a polymer Glock type frame with the SN engraved on the poly and no stainless component.

It'll pass VolReg, but it's still not compliant with the wording of the law.
Submitting a VolReg indicating a model that is not engraved could potentially be more serious because it would be outright falsification, rather than simply "overlooking" the stainless block requirement.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 05-16-2018, 7:58 AM
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Ok thanks. Back to the engraver it goes :\
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:13 AM
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I made a few T91 replicas with this engraving. I'm going to AWReg with caliber as '5.56x45' and the model as 'T91'. Does this engraving look adequate for DOJ with respect to caliber and model despite all the chinese text? Of course my name, city, state and FMBUS will be engraved on it as well.


Last edited by shaocaholica; 05-16-2018 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 05-16-2018, 2:05 PM
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i too am confused as to what is legally required according to the letter of the law

we all are assuming we have to
place on the receiver our full name,city ,state,model,caliber,serial

but if the caliber is stamped on the barrel that is on the firearm so it complies with the atf regs the barrel is fair game for other info as well

the way the law is written it seems to suggest all you need is the ca issued serial once they start releasing them

i am also confused as to the embedding of 3.7 oz of stainless steel in a polymer lower 3.7 oz thats the mass of a carbine buffer is that the true requirement?
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Old 05-16-2018, 4:34 PM
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Ok, so I am getting ready to VolReg my 80%'s, having read the entire thread; I have a few questions and want to make sure I have/understand everything correctly.

For the (2) 80% AR pistols (one SSE1 and one SSE2), I want to register as Semi-Auto. They were both converted to semi before 2017. All the lowers (pistols and rifles) have been engraved per ATF Specs. All pistols and rifles are currently either featureless or fixed mag (2017 compliant).

Do I need to mention that they were built as SSE1 and SSE2 and converted? Or can I just VolReg them as semi-auto without mentioning any of it? I have my build dates or at least as close as I can find in my documents.

From what I have read, I need to put:
"Make" as U S (also mention in comments Make: First/Last Name).
"Model" is my choice.
"Caliber" firearm with interchangeable barrels.
"Acquired from" as Other, "Explain why" as Self Made.

I am exempt for the HSC/FSC and will just mention my exemption in the comments.

Is there anything else I may need to mention in the Comments box?

As far as rifles go, that should be straight forward? Just mention they were built from 80%? Any ideas on what I need to do for my AK that was built from a flat and parts kit?

Sorry if I am listing too many steps. Let me know if I should take anything in my post out. I hate that they are making me register my stuff as I had initially planned on not doing any sort of registering since I didn't want to AWReg them.
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Old 05-16-2018, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
the way the law is written it seems to suggest all you need is the ca issued serial once they start releasing them
VolReg for non-AW is off the table effective July 1.
VolReg prior to July 1 establishes the firearm in "a centralized database" which exempts it from the requirement to have a DOJ-issued SN.

Quote:
i am also confused as to the embedding of 3.7 oz of stainless steel in a polymer lower 3.7 oz thats the mass of a carbine buffer is that the true requirement?
Yes.
The author of the law doesn't care whether it is possible or not.
The BATFE requires the serial number to be engraved upon a stainless plate that is embedded into the frame during manufacture in a way that will effectively destroy the frame if removed.
The BATFE requires a minimum of 3.7oz of metallic content in the completed firearm (to guarantee that it will trigger metal detectors)

California merged these two requirements into one.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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