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  #1  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:58 PM
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Default DON'T OPEN MY BOX!!!!!

I just love the customer that has a gun shipped to your location out of the blue and then when he's here transferring it, chews you out for opening the box without him there. . . . . . .and then when explained why we need to open the box, isn't satisfied with your answer.

Here is why I, as an FFL, open your gun box when I receive it regardless of who you are.

1. FOR my safety- Sometimes sellers do not check to make sure their firearm is unloaded.
2. SO I can verify what is on the paperwork is what's in the box- Sometimes we get guns that are not meant to be shipped. Carelessness on the sellers part does happen and we do get guns that are not meant to be shipped
3. SO I can verify that the firearm is not an assault weapon- We get AW's in error all the time. Sometimes your seller forgets to make them compliant. Unfortunately, we can't either so we need to verify it's a legal firearm.
4. Because I need to verify the serial number and record it per ATF and DOJ regulations. This requires that I find the serial number on the gun and record it in a Bound book that is inspected by the ATF. If I get the number wrong or forget to do so, I have a violation that occurs during an audit. I lose my license if I get more than a couple of these. . . .
5. SO I can make sure that the firearm is not damaged during shipping.- Many a firearm has been packed poorly, broken at its weakest point during shipping, had scratches from loose items in the box etc. I get to take pictures and give you a call so that you will be in the know before you get here to do paperwork. . . .

Here is what I don't do with it.-
1. Show it to all my buddies that come in.-Wouldnt want to steal your thunder. (see #3 below)
2. Shoot it.- I have seen them all, and shooting them doesn't interest me in the least (See #3 below)
3. Throw it in a corner after I receive it. Imagine if I did this. Calguns, Yelp and Google reviews would have my *** in a sling and out of business in no time flat.
4. Wait until you decide to make an appointment to log it into our bound book. This happens the minute it gets off the truck. The ATF frowns on such shoddy practices. . . . (this means I open your box)

SO, as your partner in getting your gun here, kindly allow me to do my job, with a smile, and should you even think for a minute that your gun is mishandled here, Let's have a frank conversation about why that didn't happen.

Honestly, It's still your Christmas present, with only your eyes and feelings attached to it. My services have not soiled your baby. . . .PROMISE
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Last edited by rbetts; 08-22-2017 at 4:05 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-22-2017, 4:37 PM
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If they don't like it after it's explained, I always offer to tape it back up and send it back so they can start over. No, really, I will.
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2017, 4:42 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
If they don't like it after it's explained, I always offer to tape it back up and send it back so they can start over. No, really, I will.
Haha, good answer. That should quell any lingering attitude.

.
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Old 08-22-2017, 5:15 PM
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"Oh but none of the other FFLs I use open the box!???"
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2017, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rbetts View Post
"Oh but none of the other FFLs I use open the box!???"
Then they can use that ffl instead
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2017, 5:25 PM
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Seems pretty reasonable and perfectly explained. Though I could see one on the guys all pumped up on Monster and Low T supplements getting all bent even with the great explanation.
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Old 08-22-2017, 5:28 PM
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They probably told him not to come back.
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2017, 6:21 PM
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The simple answer is: Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

I once had a guy who wanted the firearm shipped in a locked case with no key supplied, he would bring the key. He also said that if I opened the box then I would owe him the full amount for the firearm. There were other issues as well, but the end result was that he was fired as a customer.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2017, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The simple answer is: Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

I once had a guy who wanted the firearm shipped in a locked case with no key supplied, he would bring the key. He also said that if I opened the box then I would owe him the full amount for the firearm. There were other issues as well, but the end result was that he was fired as a customer.
wow, what an idiot.

i would have returned that box at that buyer's expense if it arrived locked with no way to open it.

do some of these guys not understand how FFL's work or just business in general?

i mean i can understand wanting to be there for the "opening" but when the FFL has to jump through so many legal hoops imposed on them by state and federal agencies... i wouldn't even think to get mad if they opened the box up before i got there.

this reminds me of an incident at work where a customer has special ordered a wedding ring. they asked the associate for a picture of the ring in their excitement and the associate took the picture with the ring on one of their fingers (i guess not thinking anything of it, or using the many display nubs for the rings)

customer flips out about how the ring is now tainted and someone else wore it before her so she demands a new ring be made, and no person is to have contact with the ring. not sure if the customer thought we all can magically float the ring in the air while it is being created at the factory or the QC inspection person, or the S/O clerk that has to check in the item and process all the paperwork for it then another QC person to give it the last once over before it can be sent to the store.

either way, customers can be stupid is what i'm getting to.
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2017, 7:25 AM
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We've had a few customers want to be there for the "unboxing".. we allow them to do that if they can make an appointment the day of arrival. We've, fortunately, never had that happen with a random package showing up.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2017, 7:49 AM
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Kind of a reverse play here, my family has been using same FFL /LGS for30+ yrs., we understand the process very well. I show up after a call that my order has arrived and though it strange that the box was still sealed and asked: Didn't you guys check this out ?, they said no we'll let you have the glory, well upon opening the box I found the most rusty rifle I've ever seen !!! Well played prank ! Let the FFLs do their job and enjoy !
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2017, 2:15 PM
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Had a customer ship in a SP-01 and while all purchases are special to people they are not really special to us. We deal with 1 of 1 guns, prototypes and guns that are $50, $75 and $100k guns. These guns we make arrangemnts with the buyers to be here for delivery and opening. So when an SP-01 gets sent in I am not exactly foaming at the mouth to finger it.

Well this guy shipped it in and was adament that only he can open his box and that no one is to touch his box. And since we deal with a lot of people via text we got this in text. Since I am a smart *** I thought it would fun to take out my SP-01 that has been well shot, dirty and has a few scratches and take sosme pics of me racking the slide and sent them to him letting him know his gun shoots great

He wasn't happy. Was even less happy when I said just kidding. Had a full on melt down like I sodomized his first born.

He has't been back
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2017, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
Had a customer ship in a SP-01 and while all purchases are special to people they are not really special to us. We deal with 1 of 1 guns, prototypes and guns that are $50, $75 and $100k guns. These guns we make arrangemnts with the buyers to be here for delivery and opening. So when an SP-01 gets sent in I am not exactly foaming at the mouth to finger it.

Well this guy shipped it in and was adament that only he can open his box and that no one is to touch his box. And since we deal with a lot of people via text we got this in text. Since I am a smart *** I thought it would fun to take out my SP-01 that has been well shot, dirty and has a few scratches and take sosme pics of me racking the slide and sent them to him letting him know his gun shoots great

He wasn't happy. Was even less happy when I said just kidding. Had a full on melt down like I sodomized his first born.

He has't been back


That's funny. I'd be steamed as all get out if you'd done that to me, but I like to think I'd get over it pretty quick and have a good laugh over it once you explained.
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Old 08-23-2017, 2:56 PM
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"What's in the box !?!"


^ That's just one of the reasons why Brad Pitt would not be a good FFL.

... He's just too reluctant to open a box.

( Sorry Brad, or whatever your Calguns name is here, but you know it's true.)

I think people hear one or two Internet horror stories about things being broken/lost at gun stores and think that you're just sitting there breaking stuff and losing parts all day.

...On purpose.

Which does remind me of an "Internet story" about a supposedly wealthy man refusing to buy two ARs that he ordered, because the sales person had touched them.
He probably had some type of germ phobia (or strong desire to be the first to take their "caressing virginity")
and no one ever explained to him that human hands had made the guns and unless he cast the metal himself, he was going to be out of luck.
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Old 08-23-2017, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sealocan View Post
"What's in the box !?!"


^ That's just one of the reasons why Brad Pitt would not be a good FFL.

... He's just too reluctant to open a box.

( Sorry Brad, or whatever your Calguns name is here, but you know it's true.)

I think people hear one or two Internet horror stories about things being broken/lost at gun stores and think that you're just sitting there breaking stuff and losing parts all day.

...On purpose.

Which does remind me of an "Internet story" about a supposedly wealthy man refusing to buy two ARs that he ordered, because the sales person had touched them.
He probably had some type of germ phobia (or strong desire to be the first to take their "caressing virginity")
and no one ever explained to him that human hands had made the guns and unless he cast the metal himself, he was going to be out of luck.
i sold those 2 rock river psd pistols. consecutive serial numbers ending in 0 and 1. guy waited 8 months. turned them down instantly when i told them rock river touched them. he ordered 2 more and waited another 12 months. i had no problem since that was durimg the newtown panic and sold both to a guy in florida for twice what i sold them to the germaphobe. i have the pictures somewhere on my hard drive.
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Old 08-23-2017, 4:31 PM
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^
Haaaahaa, that's great audiophil2 !


I like it when I'm passing along an Internet story that actually turns out to be 100% true.

I think I must've read your post about that a long time ago.
I wasn't sure if I had read it here or on another gun website.

I also like how it worked out for everyone.
You made more money from the double sale, the guy in Florida got what he wanted
And the guy with that germ phobia had robots build those consecutive number pistols, in an airlock, out in space, and had the guns beamed down... to that boy who lives in a plastic bubble, who just so happened to recently get his FFL.


Win win win = trifecta.
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2017, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
wow, what an idiot.

i would have returned that box at that buyer's expense if it arrived locked with no way to open it.
It never arrived as it never got that far, in part because he wanted to meet me for allowing me to handle the transfer and other things. Lots of issues and it got quickly to the point where it was not worth it. I suspect that he was trying the same thing with other FFLs.

The problem with returning it is that it arrived. Much more fun to cut the lock :-). He could complain and perhaps even sue, but the judge would likely laugh him out of the court, perhaps lock him up on a psych hold :-).
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Old 08-23-2017, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
We've had a few customers want to be there for the "unboxing".. we allow them to do that if they can make an appointment the day of arrival. We've, fortunately, never had that happen with a random package showing up.
If it happens to work, then fine, but I am not going to go out of my way to do it, in part because it is unknown when it will actually arrive, then I would have to call and wait for the person to come over and not be doing anything else.
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Old 08-23-2017, 5:44 PM
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"You don't like it that I opened your box...that you didn't warn me was coming...okay, I'll just send it back".
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Old 08-23-2017, 5:53 PM
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If you let your customers know upfront about what you do with transferred firearms then you wouldn't have to be lectured by them. Honesty is the key to connect with your customers. Have your policy posted inside your business clearly and also on your website. But if you're still arrogant and think your customers owed you something - expect to be treated the way you clearly deserve.
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Old 08-23-2017, 6:02 PM
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A gun I ordered last year showed up with a broken part. They tried to blame it on the FFL, luckily it was late last year and REALLY busy and I showed up the same day and watched him open the box.

They'd used too long of a screw and kept tightening when it bottomed out.
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Old 08-23-2017, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
If you let your customers know upfront about what you do with transferred firearms then you wouldn't have to be lectured by them. Honesty is the key to connect with your customers. Have your policy posted inside your business clearly and also on your website. But if you're still arrogant and think your customers owed you something - expect to be treated the way you clearly deserve.
Huh? You want the FFL to post the Federal Code?

A FFL is require to log in the firearm and should look at the actual firearm to ensure that the information, including the serial number, is correct. I have received firearms in which the paperwork did not have the correct serial number. Unfortunately boxes are not designed to allow for all of the information to be seen on the firearm without opening the box.

I don't understand the "customers owed you something". Perhaps I missed something in the conversation.

The problem discussed here is in regards to customer who have unrealistic requests and could also mean that the FFL would have to violate Federal law in order to do what the customer is trying to demand.
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Old 08-23-2017, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
A gun I ordered last year showed up with a broken part. They tried to blame it on the FFL, luckily it was late last year and REALLY busy and I showed up the same day and watched him open the box.

They'd used too long of a screw and kept tightening when it bottomed out.
The blame game. Quite typical.

I recently received a firearm which was scratched and the seller blamed UPS. Not sure of how UPS can scratch a firearm inside of a case, but at least they did not blame me. No padding inside and the bolt was able to move around a bit, but where the bolt was vs. where the scratches were, I don't think that the bolt could have done it. Poor packaging, but blame is easier.
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Old 08-23-2017, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Huh? You want the FFL to post the Federal Code?

A FFL is require to log in the firearm and should look at the actual firearm to ensure that the information, including the serial number, is correct. I have received firearms in which the paperwork did not have the correct serial number. Unfortunately boxes are not designed to allow for all of the information to be seen on the firearm without opening the box.

I don't understand the "customers owed you something". Perhaps I missed something in the conversation.

The problem discussed here is in regards to customer who have unrealistic requests and could also mean that the FFL would have to violate Federal law in order to do what the customer is trying to demand.
Mehhh. The problem with majority of FFLs is that they are simply hobbyists, fired from the previous jobs, or unemployed borrowing money to start a business. Majority is not business educated. There are some who are well educated and understand what business is. They don't treat this thing as a personal sandbox. It pays to take a college course on how to communicate your message to your customers. Even if you have to abide by federal, state and local laws if it's inconvenient to your customer - clearly communicate why you are going to do things your way. Don't leave people guessing like they supposed to know all the statutes. It pays to be nicer to your customers or get treated like a shmuck and swallow it quietly. Don't rant like you're better than your customers. You're not.
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Old 08-23-2017, 8:14 PM
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All the time customers ask me. "Hey did you check out my gun? How do you like the this or that" here's my response. If by check it out you mean verify the serial and a fix a child warning tag then yes. I "checked it out"
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Old 08-24-2017, 4:21 AM
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I spend a lot of money on really high end firearms, but I realize that the temptation to fondle that Hi-Point carbine or Maverick shotgun may be too much for the FFL to bear. So it isn't a big deal.
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Old 08-24-2017, 5:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
Had a customer ship in a SP-01 and while all purchases are special to people they are not really special to us. We deal with 1 of 1 guns, prototypes and guns that are $50, $75 and $100k guns. These guns we make arrangemnts with the buyers to be here for delivery and opening. So when an SP-01 gets sent in I am not exactly foaming at the mouth to finger it.

Well this guy shipped it in and was adament that only he can open his box and that no one is to touch his box. And since we deal with a lot of people via text we got this in text. Since I am a smart *** I thought it would fun to take out my SP-01 that has been well shot, dirty and has a few scratches and take sosme pics of me racking the slide and sent them to him letting him know his gun shoots great

He wasn't happy. Was even less happy when I said just kidding. Had a full on melt down like I sodomized his first born.

He has't been back
That's awesome. You have my respect
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2017, 6:34 AM
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Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
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Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
He has't been back
He is probably standing around in a big box retail gun store, holding his ticket while staring at the sign:

"Now serving number 4"

His ticket is number 107
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2017, 5:04 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
Mehhh. The problem with majority of FFLs is that they are simply hobbyists, fired from the previous jobs, or unemployed borrowing money to start a business. Majority is not business educated. There are some who are well educated and understand what business is. They don't treat this thing as a personal sandbox. It pays to take a college course on how to communicate your message to your customers. Even if you have to abide by federal, state and local laws if it's inconvenient to your customer - clearly communicate why you are going to do things your way. Don't leave people guessing like they supposed to know all the statutes. It pays to be nicer to your customers or get treated like a shmuck and swallow it quietly. Don't rant like you're better than your customers. You're not.
Wow. You seem to really know everything about everyone.

I am not sure of where you get the last part, but I would bet that you are a problem customer. I am not sure of why a FFL should be forced to detail everything to a customer since most customer don't care.

There is nothing inconvenient to customer, some customers just have absurd demands.
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2017, 8:17 AM
taperxz taperxz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
Mehhh. The problem with majority of FFLs is that they are simply hobbyists, fired from the previous jobs, or unemployed borrowing money to start a business. Majority is not business educated. There are some who are well educated and understand what business is. They don't treat this thing as a personal sandbox. It pays to take a college course on how to communicate your message to your customers. Even if you have to abide by federal, state and local laws if it's inconvenient to your customer - clearly communicate why you are going to do things your way. Don't leave people guessing like they supposed to know all the statutes. It pays to be nicer to your customers or get treated like a shmuck and swallow it quietly. Don't rant like you're better than your customers. You're not.
Actually, you sound like the customer who thinks they know all things because you post on Calguns but get it all wrong. No, really, you do, (my crew rolling eyes at the customer who thinks they are Alan Gura)
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  #31  
Old 08-29-2017, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rbetts View Post
"Oh but none of the other FFLs I use open the box!???"
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Had a customer rip me on the phone for the same thing. I gave him the same reasons and he was still pissed. It is amazing how fast the tone changes when they hear the pack tape in the background and you tell them it will be going back to where it came from as soon as you hang up.
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2017, 7:04 PM
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Here is what I don't do with it.-
1. Show it to all my buddies that come in.-Wouldnt want to steal your thunder. (see #3 below)



Years ago I was at Oak Tree and they had a Keltec KSG, it was when they first came out. Guy behind the counter said it took almost a year to get in for the customer that ordered it. They let it get passed around the shop for all the customers to pump, dry fire, fondle etc. The owner of it wasn't even there. I would have been pissed if I walked in to find a bunch of people I don't know playing with my gun.
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2017, 8:16 PM
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Rusty_Shackleferd Rusty_Shackleferd is offline
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Retail is dealing with the public, and the public is hell. Good stories everyone. I got lectured by at least half of what walked through the door. Only two times I openly objected to a customer's behavior: when one pointed his CCW at me to "show me how fast he could draw," and one time when a customer felt the need to tell me how "those guys" deserved to be shot (context: ferguson protests). I kicked both guys out of the shop and told them we didn't want their business.

Last edited by Rusty_Shackleferd; 08-29-2017 at 8:23 PM..
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  #34  
Old 08-30-2017, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK4me View Post
...
Years ago I was at Oak Tree and they had a Keltec KSG, it was when they first came out. Guy behind the counter said it took almost a year to get in for the customer that ordered it. They let it get passed around the shop for all the customers to pump, dry fire, fondle etc. The owner of it wasn't even there. I would have been pissed if I walked in to find a bunch of people I don't know playing with my gun.
I don't get why they would ever do that. If there is so much as a scratch on it, then they can have a problem. Only a fool would want to risk having a problem. New firearms can be replaced, but older used firearms can not and the expense if something should happen could be a real problem, not to mention getting a bad reputation.

Then again there was a FFL (I think he is out of business now) who said that he "test fired" firearms and asked the question what the difference was between him shooting it and the factory. He didn't get it and he didn't tell people what he did either.
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  #35  
Old 09-11-2017, 8:49 AM
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PMACA_MFG PMACA_MFG is offline
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Just tell them, "Its ok I got permission from Fred" who's Fred? "Fred is the guy that boxed it"

I mean, the only thing I can think of, is, that you let a whiff of "factory air" go.
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