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  #1  
Old 09-18-2017, 8:40 PM
Spankyttt Spankyttt is offline
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Default C&R with COE Out of State Purchase...

Sorry in advance if I am beating the same ol "Dead Horse" but I have read many questions and responses on this site regarding this topic and am now even MORE confused that when I started...

First scenario:
A current resident of comiefornia who has a current C&R FFL03 and COE wants to purchase a long gun from another state has the following option:

A) Provide their information (C&R/COE) to the seller in other state and waits at home for the arrival of their new purchase

or

B) Provides the information of his local FFL01 dealer and waits for a call from his local dealer before stopping at the FFL01 business to collect their new purchase


Second scenario:
A resident of comiefornia who has a current C&R FFL03 and COE is granted a day pass to travel to the free world and finds a C&R long gun of their liking has the following option:

A) He purchases the said gun, takes possession and travels home with a smile on his face. Turns in the required paperwork along with a $19 fee (within 5 days) and lives happily ever after

or

B) Provides the information of his local FFL01 dealer, has the firearm shipped to his FFL01 and waits for weeks until he recieves a call from his local dealer before stopping at their business to collect their new purchase

Thanks in advance......
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2017, 8:54 PM
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Quiet Quiet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankyttt View Post
First scenario:
A current resident of comiefornia who has a current C&R FFL03 and COE wants to purchase a long gun from another state has the following option:

A) Provide their information (C&R/COE) to the seller in other state and waits at home for the arrival of their new purchase

or

B) Provides the information of his local FFL01 dealer and waits for a call from his local dealer before stopping at the FFL01 business to collect their new purchase
First Scenario...

#A. No longer allowed.

Starting 01-01-2015, CA resident is required to use a CA FFL dealer in order to import a firearm into CA. [PC 27585(a)]
^Exemption to this... CA resident that has a valid C&R FFL and goes out-of-state, acquires a C&R firearm, and brings it back to CA. [PC 27585(b)(1)]
^There's no exemption that allows C&R long gun to be shipped directly to a CA resident with a valid C&R FFL and valid COE from out-of-state.

#B. Has C&R firearm shipped to CA FFL dealer. When the C&R firearm arrives, CA FFL dealer transfers the C&R firearm to the CA resident.
If the CA resident has a valid C&R FFL and valid COE, then the transfer is exempt from the 10 day wait [PC 27670] & the 1 in 30 day handgun wait [PC 27535(b)(9)] and the person is exempt from needing a FSC [PC 31700(a)(6)] & safe handling demonstration [PC 26850(h) & 26860(g)].


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankyttt View Post
Second scenario:
A resident of comiefornia who has a current C&R FFL03 and COE is granted a day pass to travel to the free world and finds a C&R long gun of their liking has the following option:

A) He purchases the said gun, takes possession and travels home with a smile on his face. Turns in the required paperwork along with a $19 fee (within 5 days) and lives happily ever after

or

B) Provides the information of his local FFL01 dealer, has the firearm shipped to his FFL01 and waits for weeks until he recieves a call from his local dealer before stopping at their business to collect their new purchase
Second scenario...

#A. Still applies. [PC 27565]
Also applies to C&R handguns.

#B. See first scenario #B.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-18-2017 at 9:05 PM..
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2017, 8:57 PM
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Applicable CA laws...

Penal Code 27585
(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to or affect any of the following:
(1) A licensed collector who is subject to and complies with Section 27565.

Penal Code 27565
(a) This section applies in the following circumstances:
(1) A person is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(2) The licensed premises of that person are within this state.
(3) The licensed collector acquires, outside of this state, a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm.
(4) The licensed collector takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports the firearm into this state.
(5) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(b) Within five days of transporting a firearm into this state under the circumstances described in subdivision (a), the licensed collector shall report the acquisition of that firearm to the department in a format prescribed by the department.

Penal Code 27670
(a) The waiting period described in Section 27540 does not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(1) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(2) The sale, delivery, loan, or transfer is made by a dealer.
(3) The sale, delivery, loan, or transfer is made to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) The licensed collector has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.
(b) On the date that the sale, delivery, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in Section 28160 or 28165.

Penal Code 27535
(a) No person shall make an application to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period.
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:
(9) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) of Chapter 2.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 09-18-2017 at 9:01 PM..
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:47 PM
Spankyttt Spankyttt is offline
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Thank you for your response and the provided information, I am very grateful but still very confused. Its ALL A PLAY ON WORDS!!!!

Simply put, I am not a lawyer but I can see how a lawyer in todays world can spin the verbiage in these penal codes ten ways till Sunday. Based on the amount of money you have depends on the outcome of your trial!!

You can buy a firearm out of state and legally bring it back into state but cant ship it to the state....... but are required to pay a fee and announce you brought it into the state after being approved to pay a fee for a permit that does not allow you to bring it into the state.............

You can ship it to a "FFL", pay a fee to ship it to the "FFL" and still after picking up the firearm from a "FFL be required to fill out a form (pay the fees) state you are an "FFL" who is not allowed to ship it to your self or state but can pay a fee to ship it to another "FFL" and pay him a fee to collect said firearm and may or may not be allowed to keep said firearm of be sent prison for 10 years.........

The penal code mentions a "resident of the state" (in my mind implies and non-FFL) but does not clarify or mention of an FFL03, FFL01 or ??. Many times it mentions an "FFL" but makes no mention of whether its an FFL01 or FFL03

Bottom line is (my belief) they are HELL BENT on turning ALL of gun owning US CA citizens into criminals.... Sad but true!!!
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:24 PM
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I believe it's uniform throughout CA PC that it uses "... a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto." when it means a C&R FFL ("03").

Everyplace else it uses "FFL" to be understood as one in the business of buying and selling firearms, commonly an "01".

Of course, that doesn't mean your conclusion is wrong.
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #6  
Old 09-20-2017, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Everyplace else it uses "FFL" to be understood as one in the business of buying and selling firearms, commonly an "01".
To be more accurate, it is a Firearms Dealer, which could be an 01 or 07 (manufacturer, which is also a dealer). An 07 can do all of what an 01 can, as well as manufacturing.
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2017, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankyttt View Post
...
You can buy a firearm out of state and legally bring it back into state but cant ship it to the state....... but are required to pay a fee and announce you brought it into the state after being approved to pay a fee for a permit that does not allow you to bring it into the state.............
You can have it shipped to the state, but you can't have it shipped directly to you unless you are a Firearms Dealer.

Quote:
You can ship it to a "FFL", pay a fee to ship it to the "FFL" and still after picking up the firearm from a "FFL be required to fill out a form (pay the fees) state you are an "FFL" who is not allowed to ship it to your self or state but can pay a fee to ship it to another "FFL" and pay him a fee to collect said firearm and may or may not be allowed to keep said firearm of be sent prison for 10 years.........
There is no law which requires that the firearm be shipped FFL to FFL, that is only the policy of the Firearms Dealer.

Quote:
The penal code mentions a "resident of the state" (in my mind implies and non-FFL) but does not clarify or mention of an FFL03, FFL01 or ??. Many times it mentions an "FFL" but makes no mention of whether its an FFL01 or FFL03

Bottom line is (my belief) they are HELL BENT on turning ALL of gun owning US CA citizens into criminals.... Sad but true!!!
As said FFL is a firearms dealer, not a collector. Yes, both are a FFL, but that is not how it is used. A Firearms Dealer may have a 01FFL or a 07FFL, both are firearms dealers.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2017, 9:50 AM
locomike locomike is offline
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sounds like C&R has become kind of useless? i never heard of a COE before either. that seems redundant. you are approved for a FFL03 but you have to be approved again for a COE???? I used to buy C&R rifles online and just have them shipped to my house. sounds like thats no longer the case? man, my ffl03 expired in 2010, just sent paperwork and fee in to get one again, now im thinking i wasted my money..
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locomike View Post
sounds like C&R has become kind of useless? i never heard of a COE before either. that seems redundant. you are approved for a FFL03 but you have to be approved again for a COE???? I used to buy C&R rifles online and just have them shipped to my house. sounds like thats no longer the case? man, my ffl03 expired in 2010, just sent paperwork and fee in to get one again, now im thinking i wasted my money..
Kamala Harris said that the COE was worthless in the waiting period lawsuit.

Having the C&R FFL and COE does get you out of the waiting period for C&R firearms. As well, you can buy them when out of state and send in the form.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:24 AM
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can anyone help me with confirmed info on all this please? im trying to look at CA. gov website but not finding info. links if anyone has any???? thanks
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locomike View Post
can anyone help me with confirmed info on all this please? im trying to look at CA. gov website but not finding info. links if anyone has any???? thanks
The CA PC was included above. You can pickup a C&R out of state, but if shipped it has to go to a dealer. What do you need confirmed?
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2017, 12:35 PM
locomike locomike is offline
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is the c and r and good with out a coe? i guess what im really trying to find out is whatever has changed since i last used a c and r in around 2008.
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