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  #1  
Old 08-06-2017, 11:00 AM
56huck 56huck is offline
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Default Sales tax on ppt?

My lgs says they now have to collect sales tax on all ppt. I ordered and paid for a new gun from Cabelas and they charged me sales tax - he said DOJ said he had to and pay sales tax on all his recent ppt's
Does everyone now have to charge sales tax on ppt and guns purchased out of state?
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2017, 11:07 AM
56huck 56huck is offline
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I should have searched first....
I found the answer here
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ight=Sales+tax
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2017, 11:13 AM
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No tax on PPT - dealer is not involved in sale only transfer.
My FFL does not charge me tax when the seller includes a note that the sale is occasional and between private parties - some FFLs charge in all cases.
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2017, 11:31 AM
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refer to my thread on ppt tax..they are sending me a letter about it..

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Last edited by dvs762; 08-19-2017 at 4:08 PM..
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56huck View Post
My lgs says they now have to collect sales tax on all ppt. I ordered and paid for a new gun from Cabelas and they charged me sales tax - he said DOJ said he had to and pay sales tax on all his recent ppt's
Does everyone now have to charge sales tax on ppt and guns purchased out of state?
Since you ordered a gun from Cabelas this is NOT a PPT, thus it is subject to tax.

A PPT is done in person by two people is not subject to tax.
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2017, 1:47 PM
bbguns44 bbguns44 is offline
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A used gun from an out of state private seller is also not subject to sales tax. But is subject to the transfer fee & dros.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2017, 2:11 PM
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^^^ Wrong
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2017, 2:21 PM
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ive had 3 different answers from BOE on private sale sales tax..one says yes. one says no and one says no idea..makes it very confusing..
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Old 08-06-2017, 2:23 PM
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Read boe refferal in post 2 and this is not ppt
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2017, 3:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbguns44 View Post
A used gun from an out of state private seller is also not subject to sales tax. But is subject to the transfer fee & dros.
Wrong. The CA BOE changed their opinion several years ago and since they answer to no one, there is not much that can be done except to vote in new representatives.

If the FFL finds the buyer or seller or gets involved in the price, a CA PPT is subject to sales tax.

An occasional firearm sale from a private party, not from a business, within CA or from out of state in the case of a C&R firearm when the buyer has a C&R FFL is not subject to sales tax as long as the FFL does not find the buyer/seller or get involved in the price.
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  #11  
Old 08-07-2017, 5:47 PM
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Im waiting on a letter from them right now about this..on the phone they say if its an occasional sale of not more than 2 guns a year then no sales tax..BUT may have to collect a USE tax..which is the same rate as a sales tax...yeah..muddy as hell...
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbguns44 View Post
A used gun from an out of state private seller is also not subject to sales tax. But is subject to the transfer fee & dros.
This is incorrect. It is subject to tax, transfer fee, & DROS. The FFL is responsible for collecting tax on that transaction.
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2017, 12:38 PM
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This is incorrect. It is subject to tax, transfer fee, & DROS. The FFL is responsible for collecting tax on that transaction.
He said private seller for a reason - at one time it certainly wasn't subject to tax, because occasional sellers don't have to collect tax (in general).

From an FFL tax would be collected.
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  #14  
Old 08-17-2017, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
He said private seller for a reason - at one time it certainly wasn't subject to tax, because occasional sellers don't have to collect tax (in general).

From an FFL tax would be collected.
You are correct at one time it wasn't subject to tax, but we're not talking about back then.

However, when a "private seller" mails a pistol to CA FFL for a private buyer to purchase, the private buyer must pay the tax on the transaction to the private buyer's FFL.
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Old 08-17-2017, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
He said private seller for a reason - at one time it certainly wasn't subject to tax, because occasional sellers don't have to collect tax (in general).
And in the past people could sell without going through a FFL, but that is not the case anymore, so what is your point?

Quote:
From an FFL tax would be collected.
From only matters if the shipper is within CA, with an exception for C&R firearms where the buyer has a C&R FFL.
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  #16  
Old 08-18-2017, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs762 View Post
Im waiting on a letter from them right now about this..on the phone they say if its an occasional sale of not more than 2 guns a year then no sales tax..BUT may have to collect a USE tax..which is the same rate as a sales tax...yeah..muddy as hell...
This 1995 BOE memorandum suggests that in that situation the seller would owe the Sales Tax.
Quote:
For situations in which private parties transfer firearms in California between themselves, and they do so through a dealer such as M---, with the dealer simply registering the firearm without taking title to it at any time, the dealer will not be regarded as the retailer of the firearm. Rather, the private party who sells the firearm is the party making the retail sale. Unless the sale
is exempt from tax, the private party seller owes sales tax measured by the total amount of the sale price of the gun, which includes the Department of Justice fee and the service charge, as discussed above.
They owe it and you do not collect it. That was 22 years ago. Now?

Last edited by Chewy65; 08-18-2017 at 5:19 PM..
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2017, 6:40 PM
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"Unless the sale is exempt from tax", which is the case for an occasional sale.
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2017, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
And in the past people could sell without going through a FFL, but that is not the case anymore, so what is your point?



From only matters if the shipper is within CA, with an exception for C&R firearms where the buyer has a C&R FFL.
You're saying that an 03/COE doesn't have to pay tax buying from an 01 or 07?
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2017, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
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You're saying that an 03/COE doesn't have to pay tax buying from an 01 or 07?
No, only when from a private occasional sale, even from out of state.
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  #20  
Old 08-19-2017, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
"Unless the sale is exempt from tax", which is the case for an occasional sale.
Looking at this from the BOE, that isn't quite the rule (assuming that this correctly states the rule). The rule seems to me to be a non-dealer is exempt because they are not engaged in a business requiring a dealers license and a person making occasional sales does not require a business license.

Quote:
OCCASIONAL SALES—A sale by (and purchase from) a person who is not engaged in a business requiring a seller’s permit is exempt from sales and use taxes. These types of sales are “occasional” sales (some states have similar exemptions for “casual” sales). Generally, a person who makes three or more sales for substantial amounts in any period of 12 months is required to hold a seller’s permit. A person who makes a substantial number of sales for relatively small amounts is also required to hold a seller’s permit. (The 12 month test period can be the 12 months before the sale in question, the 12 months after the sale in question, or any other 12 month period in which the sale occurs.) A person holding two garage sales with no other sales in any 12 month period in which the garage sales are held are regarded as making exempt occasional sales. A business that is not required to hold a seller’s permit would be making an occasional sale when making a single sale of its assets upon termination of its business. Such persons should be aware that making two or three sales in anticipation of final liquidation will generally result in all the sales being subject to sales tax.
If a change in the Occasional Sale rule is in the wind, this could mean there is a lot more trouble planned for gun rights than the collection of sales taxes on a PPT. I am thinking of the five handgun/for other than handguns infrequent transactions per calendar year .(Note that the BOE taxation rule is based on a 12 month period and not a calendar year.)
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2017, 4:54 PM
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It is the rule. A non-dealer is only exempt IF it is an occasional sale. If it becomes non-occasional, then they need to be licensed.
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  #22  
Old 08-20-2017, 9:29 AM
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I was just spitting hairs, Kemasa. That little section from the 1995 memorandum seems to say on one hand one thing and on another something not quite the same, but all in all your application of the rule, whatever it is, seems correct.

Last edited by Chewy65; 08-20-2017 at 9:35 AM..
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2017, 9:41 PM
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What about a "gift" gun won by someone or received for free as a promotional bonus? Nothing paid by the new owner. Taxed?
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  #24  
Old 09-11-2017, 7:01 PM
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If the firearm is not taxed, then the transfer fee is not taxed. The purchaser of the gift is responsible for the sales tax if it is bought in CA.
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