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  #1  
Old 08-14-2017, 8:36 PM
wowsza wowsza is offline
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Default Local FFL refusing to perform PPTs

i've contacted this FFL in the past about performing in-person PPTs, and the license holder(home-based) said he does not perform PPTs. i contacted him again today about transferring a long gun shipped to him from socal, and was told he would not do the transfer and does not accept firearms from private sellers.

has there been a change to the law that allows this? or is this guy not operating by the rules?


i asked him about being required to perform PPTs, and this was his response:

Quote:
As a California firearm dealer, the license has right to choose the nature of his or her business as long as no violation of the firearm laws. Being a home based firearm dealer, I just don't have more storage to store lot of guns than other store-front dealers , as well as don't have second hand dealer license. The main nature of my business is to sell brand new firearms from my inventories, not the transfers. Because my customers would like to save some money by buying guns online and I am not be able to match that online prices on some of firearms, therefore, I do transfers for my customers to help them save some cash, not like some other FFLs, they only do the transfers, not selling guns.

Last edited by wowsza; 08-14-2017 at 8:44 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-14-2017, 8:38 PM
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No change; see the sticky - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=725126
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Old 08-14-2017, 8:42 PM
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thanks, Librarian; i figured as much, but the laws haven't been updated in several years so i just wondering if they were out of date as listed in the sticky.

this guy has been pretty brazen about his unwillingness to perform PPTs, i thought maybe something had changed.
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Old 08-14-2017, 8:44 PM
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Shipping in a long gun to this FFL is *not* a PPT, and a dealer can absolutely refuse that sort of transfer. What you are describing is a dealer transfer, not a PPT, it doesn't matter if the gun is coming from a private party.

And it is very common all over the country that a FFL will not accept shipments from non-licensees (aka private parties). Some will, many will not and there is no federal or state law that compels them to accept such shipments or any shipments for transfer.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 08-14-2017 at 8:48 PM..
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Old 08-14-2017, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Shipping in a long gun to this FFL is *not* a PPT, and a dealer can absolutely refuse that sort of transfer. What you are describing is a dealer transfer, not a PPT, it doesn't matter if the gun is coming from a private party.
i am aware that shipping a firearm means it is not a PPT, which is why i thought this guy would be OK with doing the transfer, but he still refused.

he himself referred to it as a private party transfer, which i thought was odd as well.
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Old 08-14-2017, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
And it is very common all over the country that a FFL will not accept shipments from non-licensees (aka private parties). Some will, many will not and there is no federal or state law that compels them to accept such shipments or any shipments for transfer.
ok, so it seems he's well within his rights to refuse a dealer transfer, but he still shouldn't be refusing PPTs.

thanks guys
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Old 08-14-2017, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wowsza View Post
i am aware that shipping a firearm means it is not a PPT, which is why i thought this guy would be OK with doing the transfer, but he still refused.

he himself referred to it as a private party transfer, which i thought was odd as well.
I edited my post to add this, but many FFLs all over the USA will not accept shipments for transfer from non-licensees. Probably a majority. Most FFLs want guns shipped in from another licensed FFL.

Just find another FFL.
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Old 08-14-2017, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
I edited my post to add this, but many FFLs all over the USA will not accept shipments for transfer from non-licensees. Probably a majority. Most FFLs want guns shipped in from another licensed FFL.

Just find another FFL.
i like to spread the "burden" of PPTs around, and thought i might try this guy for a dealer transfer since he's closer to me than other FFLs, but i won't be considering him again.

any FFL/LGS that makes it harder for law-abiding citizens to legally acquire firearms makes my ***** list.
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Old 08-14-2017, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wowsza View Post
any FFL/LGS that makes it harder for law-abiding citizens to legally acquire firearms makes my ***** list.
I agree. I do feel like I burden FFLs with PPTs, and when I feel like I am going to the same one too many times, I either bring them a dozen donuts, Starbucks, or I buy something from them during the PPT.

And yes, just Forget any FFL who makes it even harder than DeLeon already has to buy a gun in this state.
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Old 08-14-2017, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
I agree. I do feel like I burden FFLs with PPTs, and when I feel like I am going to the same one too many times, I either bring them a dozen donuts, Starbucks, or I buy something from them during the PPT.
i know what you mean. i transferred a rifle last week at solar tactical, and i'm sure they appreciated me buying the ak that was on the shelf afterwards; makes me feel a little less guilty about the .22 i'm transferring when i pick those two guns up

Last edited by wowsza; 08-14-2017 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 08-14-2017, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wowsza View Post
i know what you mean. i transferred a rifle last week at solar tactical, and i'm sure they appreciated me buying the ak that was on the shelf afterwards; makes me feel a little less guilty about the 22 i'm transferring when i pick those two guns up
The best time to buy a gun, is when you're already buying another gun
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Old 08-14-2017, 9:24 PM
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  #13  
Old 08-15-2017, 8:39 AM
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I've always wondered about home based FFL's and PPT's.
Since most are appointment only it should be real easy for them to keep from doing them without saying they don't do them.
"Can I schedule time for a PPT?" Sorry I have no open appointments for the next 3 months...

Do people even try using kitchen tables for PPT's? And why knowing a storefront dealer has to do it when you walk in.
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Old 08-15-2017, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
.....a storefront dealer has to do it when you walk in.
Sort of. There's a proper way for the customer to request the PPT from the FFL, if the dealer wanted to not do it and the customer did not perform as required by the PC then its simple to refuse them. Also the PC says some wording about how the FFL must process them as any other normal transfer. So if you have a home based FFL that requires apt times and pick up dates that's typical and they can refuse a so called drop in.

I would surmise that 99.8% of the customers who PPT do not do it the "proper" way as required by the PC. I would say most drop in and try to sell their gun to a buddy, or calgunner, or whoever.
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Old 08-15-2017, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
I've always wondered about home based FFL's and PPT's.
Since most are appointment only it should be real easy for them to keep from doing them without saying they don't do them.
"Can I schedule time for a PPT?" Sorry I have no open appointments for the next 3 months...

Do people even try using kitchen tables for PPT's? And why knowing a storefront dealer has to do it when you walk in.
my home-based FFL guy does PPTs all the time. he's one of those guys that realizes that with each PPT he does, he gets 3 required opportunities to sell his stuff. And when he gets you out the door in 10-15 minutes on each visit, people really appreciate that over the unfortunately too-often storefront dealers that seem to look at PPT'ers as something that they got stuck on the bottom of their shoe. he gets new customers from those PPTs all the time
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2017, 4:33 PM
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Rob Blank
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Milpitas, CA

That's the FFL you want to use. Give him a call.
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Old 08-15-2017, 6:23 PM
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And when we do PPT's, That's 2 free customers that now know we are there. It's called organic growth. We didn't have to pay to get the customer and any potential sales in the future. That's the problem with LGS, but we sure aren't going to tell them. . . . We have outlasted several in the 10 years we've been in business and now that times ain't so rosey, . . . .oh well. . . .we hope they never figure it out
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by denpython View Post
Try Dave at farwest photography in Santa Clara.
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yep, i've been in contact with him here on calguns

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Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
Rob Blank
RMB Enterprises
Milpitas, CA

That's the FFL you want to use. Give him a call.
he would actually be my first choice, but milpitas is a 20+ mile drive from where i live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
my home-based FFL guy does PPTs all the time. he's one of those guys that realizes that with each PPT he does, he gets 3 required opportunities to sell his stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbetts View Post
And when we do PPT's, That's 2 free customers that now know we are there. It's called organic growth. We didn't have to pay to get the customer and any potential sales in the future.
yep.

if i'm going to be in a gun shop for ~20 minutes, i sure as hell won't be staring at the ground the entire time.

last week, i was at guns, fishing, and other stuff in dublin and they wouldn't transfer me a long gun without two proofs of residency, so we went to solar tactical in castro valley. glad it happened, because they just happened to be having a sale on AKs and i finally picked one up.
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Old 08-16-2017, 8:02 AM
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And when we do PPT's, That's 2 free customers that now know we are there. It's called organic growth. We didn't have to pay to get the customer and any potential sales in the future.

well stated
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Old 08-31-2017, 9:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wowsza View Post


he would actually be my first choice, but milpitas is a 20+ mile drive from where i live.
Wow, a whole 20 plus mile drive! I drive that far to get to work, one way!! Look for another excuse.
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Old 08-31-2017, 9:33 AM
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The FFL loses all the way around.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:46 AM
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Wow, a whole 20 plus mile drive! I drive that far to get to work, one way!! Look for another excuse.
Ditto on "WOW" for 20 minute drive ! Closest I got for PPT or even a potential meet is 45 minutes, and the majority of my PPTs are 2-21/2 hours. Sounds like you want a "house call FFL" , just appreciate the fact that in this state you still have PPTs to whine about !!!!!
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Old 09-02-2017, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobshouse View Post
Wow, a whole 20 plus mile drive! I drive that far to get to work, one way!! Look for another excuse.
BAGV is literally down the street from where i work, and i could pass farwest, roger's relics, metal dog, and milspec armory on my to RMB's from home.

there is no reason to drive to RMB's for a PPT when it costs $35 everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKFP View Post
Ditto on "WOW" for 20 minute drive ! Closest I got for PPT or even a potential meet is 45 minutes, and the majority of my PPTs are 2-21/2 hours.Sounds like you want a "house call FFL" , just appreciate the fact that in this state you still have PPTs to whine about !!!!!
you've chosen to live where you'd need to drive 45 minutes for a transfer; that's your situation not mine, so don't criticize how i value my own time.
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Old 09-03-2017, 5:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wowsza View Post
BAGV is literally down the street from where i work, and i could pass farwest, roger's relics, metal dog, and milspec armory on my to RMB's from home.

there is no reason to drive to RMB's for a PPT when it costs $35 everywhere.



you've chosen to live where you'd need to drive 45 minutes for a transfer; that's your situation not mine, so don't criticize how i value my own time.
I'm not complaining about where I live, I love it ! It's not in the "concrete jungle", and I can go 10 minutes in any direction and zero a rifle at 100yds., you're the one crying about an FFL that won't do your transfer, trying to prove that he is avoiding the law but he's convienent and a 20 minute drive is below you. Would you rather argue him into submission and continue to try and use him or move on and continue to pursue what rights you still have in a more relaxed setting, your choice, whine on!
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Old 09-03-2017, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MARKFP View Post
I'm not complaining about where I live, I love it ! It's not in the "concrete jungle", and I can go 10 minutes in any direction and zero a rifle at 100yds., you're the one crying about an FFL that won't do your transfer, trying to prove that he is avoiding the law but he's convienent and a 20 minute drive is below you. Would you rather argue him into submission and continue to try and use him or move on and continue to pursue what rights you still have in a more relaxed setting, your choice, whine on!
it is already more difficult than it should be to legally purchase a firearm in this state, we don't need bad FFLs making it harder.

if you don't understand that, you are part of the problem.
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Old 09-03-2017, 2:24 PM
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^^ it is not a bad ffl this was not ftf and he does not have to accept shipped firearm. Read the op.
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Old 09-03-2017, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ it is not a bad ffl this was not ftf and he does not have to accept shipped firearm. Read the op.
he's refused perform FTF PPT's before when asked, in addition to refusing shipped firearms (which is acceptable).

he's bad about lying about the reason as well. at the time, i was looking to buy two long guns from bud's and he had no issues with performing the transfer, but when i found a local seller, all of a sudden he didn't have room in his safe.

and MARKFP apparently thinks i'm wrong simply because i'm not willing to drive there. hate to burst his bubble, but i've bought/transferred dozens of firearms and am on a first name basis with almost every south bay FFL.
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Old 09-05-2017, 6:46 PM
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So who is it, Rogers Relics?
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Old 09-05-2017, 7:48 PM
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I think his "lack of storage" gives him an out.
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Old 09-06-2017, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
I've always wondered about home based FFL's and PPT's.
Since most are appointment only it should be real easy for them to keep from doing them without saying they don't do them.
"Can I schedule time for a PPT?" Sorry I have no open appointments for the next 3 months...

Do people even try using kitchen tables for PPT's? And why knowing a storefront dealer has to do it when you walk in.
I've done one (at Digital Instincts, when it was around).

I've had Elite Armory decline to do a PPT because it was after 5pm (barely, and they were open until 6 I think, and it wasn't busy). I ended up driving down to Solar Tactical, and ended up buying a G34 too. Too bad for Elite. I won't be buying anything from them in the future either.
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Old 09-06-2017, 8:41 PM
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I think his "lack of storage" gives him an out.
That is not an out.
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