Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > FFL's Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:20 PM
Baboosh's Avatar
Baboosh Baboosh is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alta Loma
Posts: 6,776
iTrader: 169 / 100%
Default Form 4s for AOW, anyone else been beating a dead horse?

This is ridiculous, the DOJ has basically told the ATF that AOWs are not legal in the state and the ATF denies Form 4 after Form 4.

The kicker is we had a Form 4 sent in after all the others and a different processor had it and approved it.

This is almost 18 months now, 3 denials and we keep contesting it and resubmitting with documentation showing it is state compliant and the ATF still does not care.
__________________
Just a normal guy

Last edited by Baboosh; 07-18-2017 at 3:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-18-2017, 2:40 PM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I tried contacting NFATCA but got no response. I have three pending currently. I guess at some point someone will have to have deep enough pockets to sue them. Wish I had the money.
__________________
OC Armory
23012 Del Lago Dr.
Suite B
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
(949)768-5189
www.ocarmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-18-2017, 3:19 PM
Baboosh's Avatar
Baboosh Baboosh is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alta Loma
Posts: 6,776
iTrader: 169 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
I tried contacting NFATCA but got no response. I have three pending currently. I guess at some point someone will have to have deep enough pockets to sue them. Wish I had the money.
This is frustrating beyond belief. And why the ATF ask the DOJ baffles me.
__________________
Just a normal guy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-18-2017, 9:14 PM
EBR Works's Avatar
EBR Works EBR Works is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 9,292
iTrader: 107 / 100%
Default

Four form 3 AOW transfers to CA submitted this year (one to OCA), all rejected as "violation of State law".
__________________


Check out our e-commerce site here:

www.ebrworks.com

Now serving you from Prescott, AZ
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-18-2017, 9:15 PM
Baboosh's Avatar
Baboosh Baboosh is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alta Loma
Posts: 6,776
iTrader: 169 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EBR Works View Post
Four form 3 AOW transfers to CA submitted this year (one to OCA), all rejected as "violation of State law".


Have you resubmitted with explanation?
__________________
Just a normal guy
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-18-2017, 9:17 PM
EBR Works's Avatar
EBR Works EBR Works is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 9,292
iTrader: 107 / 100%
Default

Yes, included applicable CA language in PC allowing AOWs. Ignored and denied.
__________________


Check out our e-commerce site here:

www.ebrworks.com

Now serving you from Prescott, AZ
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:56 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 36,151
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EBR Works View Post
Yes, included applicable CA language in PC allowing AOWs. Ignored and denied.
Just guessing, but I suspect a lawsuit to have them Change Their Ways would be rendered moot by the Legislature amending the PC to disallow AOW.

The b*st*rds.
__________________
JB now has until mid-October to act (or not) on bills sent to him. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-19-2017, 5:15 AM
franklinarmory's Avatar
franklinarmory franklinarmory is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Morgan Hill
Posts: 1,405
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Just guessing, but I suspect a lawsuit to have them Change Their Ways would be rendered moot by the Legislature amending the PC to disallow AOW.

The b*st*rds.
Don't give up. Call them out. ATF/NFA are approachable. They will also be at the NSSF import/export conference in 2 weeks You can meet with them directly and clear this up.

I can bring it to their attention, but I am not an attorney. You would need permission from your clients to disclose the tax forms.

Every time the state creates a new law to fix something, they screw themselves. You all probably noticed elements in the denied purposed regs that can open doors. Even if they do close down options one at a time, they will eventually overreach so much, the federal courts will find that our 2a has been taken and strike everything down.
__________________

www.franklinarmory.com
info@franklinarmory.com
ONLINE STORE: http://franklin-armory.myshopify.com/
Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the CSW, the Release Firing System, the Binary Firing System, and the NEW DFM Magazine!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-19-2017, 6:17 AM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Wanted to go to the import export. Conference but price was prohibited. The form 3 was from EBR to us so no problem there. Like I said I have a couple pending so I am waiting to see what they say. I will keep you updated
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-20-2017, 7:19 AM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,349
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

So what does this mean for Form 1 AOW's? Have I been waiting for 9 months now only to get denied?
__________________
Watch & Pray
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-20-2017, 8:38 AM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

No idea you will have to wait and see. Just checked on the stauts of a form 4 yesterday for a customer that went pending 11/21/16. She quoted 12-13 month wait time
__________________
OC Armory
23012 Del Lago Dr.
Suite B
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
(949)768-5189
www.ocarmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-20-2017, 10:57 AM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,349
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
No idea you will have to wait and see. Just checked on the stauts of a form 4 yesterday for a customer that went pending 11/21/16. She quoted 12-13 month wait time
Thanks. I called two weeks ago and was listed as pending. They told me they were currently working on forms sent in from last July.

I did receive a call a few months after I submitted. They didn't believe the model name I listed on one of my forms and wanted a photo of the receiver. I thought that was weird.
__________________
Watch & Pray
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-20-2017, 7:19 PM
Milsurp1's Avatar
Milsurp1 Milsurp1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 233
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Maybe someone can see if one of the firearm rights attorneys would want to take the case and seek EAJA fees, which might apply.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-21-2017, 4:01 PM
dvs762's Avatar
dvs762 dvs762 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,505
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

would it matter if you had a DWP that you could send in as well for proof of legality maybe?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-22-2017, 7:55 AM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

If you have a DWP it would transfer no problem. We are transfering to people without one as most people can not get a DWP.
__________________
OC Armory
23012 Del Lago Dr.
Suite B
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
(949)768-5189
www.ocarmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-23-2017, 6:32 PM
that one guy that one guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Solano County
Posts: 741
iTrader: 14 / 94%
Default

I purchased a serbu shorty via form 4 and the ATF charged my credit card on 11-17-16. How long does it usually take with the form 4 process and where does the ATF letter of approval get sent too? The FFL or the individual?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-23-2017, 7:21 PM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

It is sent to the FFL. They are quoting 12-13 months
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-23-2017, 7:37 PM
CAL.BAR CAL.BAR is offline
CGSSA OC Chapter Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South OC
Posts: 4,402
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
Maybe someone can see if one of the firearm rights attorneys would want to take the case and seek EAJA fees, which might apply.
WOW - the chance to litigate (and possibly appeal) a case for YEARS or more for FREE (and of course paying for all the filing fees, deposition fees, discovery costs etc.) on the CHANCE that attys fees MIGHT apply and that we MIGHT get paid. You might note that Mr. Michael gets PAID by the NRA for his work. Not aware of him litigating on a contingency fee.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-23-2017, 7:47 PM
that one guy that one guy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Solano County
Posts: 741
iTrader: 14 / 94%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
It is sent to the FFL. They are quoting 12-13 months
Cordelia Gun Exchange told me it gets sent to my house.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-24-2017, 9:40 AM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Only if you are the one transferring the firearm. We always receive the form of the firearm we are transferring to the customer
__________________
OC Armory
23012 Del Lago Dr.
Suite B
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
(949)768-5189
www.ocarmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:53 PM
Damiiaaannn's Avatar
Damiiaaannn Damiiaaannn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,463
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
So what does this mean for Form 1 AOW's? Have I been waiting for 9 months now only to get denied?
I was wondering the same thing. I've been waiting 6 months for my Form 1 AOW.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-24-2017, 3:42 PM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Form 1 and fours seem to be about the same time. I got a call for a form 4 transfer today for more info. So hopefully we get an approved soon.
__________________
OC Armory
23012 Del Lago Dr.
Suite B
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
(949)768-5189
www.ocarmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-05-2017, 12:31 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,349
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
I was wondering the same thing. I've been waiting 6 months for my Form 1 AOW.
Mine just came in today approved.



Well actually 11 months. I think they received mine on Oct. 4th of 2016.
__________________
Watch & Pray

Last edited by Dump1567; 09-05-2017 at 12:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:48 AM
Damiiaaannn's Avatar
Damiiaaannn Damiiaaannn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,463
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
Mine just came in today approved.



Well actually 11 months. I think they received mine on Oct. 4th of 2016.
Are you in CA? Was this for an AOW?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:48 AM
Damiiaaannn's Avatar
Damiiaaannn Damiiaaannn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,463
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Just wondering if guys have any updates on the denied Forms
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-28-2017, 2:09 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,349
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
Are you in CA? Was this for an AOW?
Yes & yes.
__________________
Watch & Pray
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-29-2017, 7:16 AM
OCArmory's Avatar
OCArmory OCArmory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 989
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I do not on any denied forms. They appear to only be for Judge AOWs. I have received two approved form 4s since this post. Both were about 11 months
__________________
OC Armory
23012 Del Lago Dr.
Suite B
Laguna Hills, CA 92653
(949)768-5189
www.ocarmory.com
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-01-2017, 7:37 PM
Damiiaaannn's Avatar
Damiiaaannn Damiiaaannn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,463
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
Yes & yes.
That's good to hear! What are you building?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-01-2017, 7:57 PM
Dump1567's Avatar
Dump1567 Dump1567 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,349
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damiiaaannn View Post
That's good to hear! What are you building?
Just putting a couple PG's on a few things. More of a CYA if I go folding brace.
__________________
Watch & Pray
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-07-2017, 5:08 PM
Themm Themm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 149
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

I had a Form 1 approved in less than 3 weeks for AOW
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:31 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.