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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 11-13-2017, 2:43 PM
drkphibr drkphibr is offline
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In early 2017 when I first saw the Mean Arms Loader I knew (based on what was out there or to be out there) I wanted one. Pre-ordered in early Feb for what was then a projected March ship. Nope. Every month (or few weeks) there was a new date, followed by a delay. Cycle repeated so many times I lost count. Got to the point I was fed up and was going to cancel on principle. Talked myself out of that as I had already invested so much time to date, I held out...but it changed my attitude about pre-ordering anything ever again.

So while I'm still waiting on my continuously delayed MA Loader, I see the BF-10 announcement and another pre-order situation. The target ship date was in November, 5 or 6 months away at that point. I told myself that if the BF-10 target ship date turned out like what happened with MA...November would mean May 2018, so I held off...but kept the product in mind once it was finally shipping. No more paying up front and waiting through delay after delay.

So I came across this thread and one post dated 11/3 stated BF was shipping pre-orders. My first thought was...WOW. They hit their target, kudos! My second thought was time to order one of these.

I caught the tail end of the pre-order package when I put my order in on 11/4. My logic was now that they're shipping, I'll get in line and patiently wait my turn...but at least they are SHIPPING...so it would arrive someday without receiving delay after delay emails.

On Friday, 11/10, I received a text from BF stating my order (including my order #) has been shipped. Went online to check my order status and followed the USPS shipping link. BF-10 slated to arrive 11/16 according to USPS. So...from order date to project receive date...12 days. Nice.

Needless to say, I'm pleasantly surprised and looking forward to comparing the two loaders side by side.
Karma baby!

This morning I received a text from BFD saying my BF-10 was out for delivery. Thought that a bit strange as my Friday text said it had just shipped and when I checked my order the USPS tracking number indicated an 11/16 target delivery date.

After I received the text, I checked my order status and clicked on the USPS link and saw it was out for delivery. Another text at 1:10 this afternoon saying it had been delivered. See pics below.

I'm speechless (especially compared to my MA Loader pre-order experience). I ordered on 11/4 and have it in my hands on 11/13. Nine (9) days...WOW. Kudos to BFD for an amazing customer service experience. You all did what you said you were going to do not only when you said you would...but sooner!

Here's a side by side with the MA Loader. I'll compare ease of use tonight.

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  #82  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:16 PM
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Thanks for posting up that pic^^^

Some were making it sound like the BFD loader was WAY YUGE compared to the competition's loader.

It appears that is NOT the case...although I can't see the thickness in that pic.

..
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  #83  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by solidfreshdope View Post
Very ingenious but a little too much of a grey area, for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Of all the compliance devices introduced in the wake of the new legislation, the BF-10 and MA Loader are the least gray area items I have seen. They are essentially stripper clips.

People with fixed magazines have chosen the most extreme form of compliance. Devices like the BF-10 simply provide a convenient way to load their fixed magazines without causing severe wear to their lower receiver by constantly using the rear takedown pin.

Last edited by JeffSD; 11-13-2017 at 3:42 PM..
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  #84  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LEAD LAUNCHER View Post
Thanks for posting up that pic^^^

Some were making it sound like the BFD loader was WAY YUGE compared to the competition's loader.

It appears that is NOT the case...although I can't see the thickness in that pic.

..
here they are side by side...for a thickness comparision.

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  #85  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:42 PM
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Thanks!
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  #86  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffSD View Post
Of all the compliance devices introduced in the wake of the new legislation, the BF-10 and MA Loader are the least gray area items I have seen. They are essentially stripper clips.

People with fixed magazines have chosen the most extreme form of compliance. Devices like the BF-10 simply provide a convenient way to load their fixed magazines without causing severe wear to their lower receiver by constantly using the rear takedown pin.


I understand that - my concern is CA DOJ viewing them as removable magazines due to them being fully encased as well, rather than open such as a stripper clip with a “mouth” or guide of some sort to line up to the ejection port. My point of view being that it is temporarily “attached” to the firearm and removed without disassembly of the action. It is a viable solution and as I had said, very smart. The argument for the device is that the firearm is complete with magazine while it is not attached because of the additional fixed mag. We sure have a lot of nuances to worry about with these new laws and how they are interpreted.


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  #87  
Old 11-13-2017, 5:07 PM
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Neither the BF-10 nor the MA Loader can be described as a magazine, anymore than the stripper clips that come with XM193 cans could be. The defining difference is the fact that the rifle cannot be fired with the loading device in place, the bolt cannot even move forward. The rifle is completely disabled until the loader is removed.

In fact, a round cannot even be chambered until the device is removed from the ejection port. A magazine is a device which feeds ammunition into the chamber. The BF-10 and MA Loader feed ammunition into fixed magazines.

If you took an AR with a fixed magazine and removed the magazine, you could NOT use a BF-10 or MA Loader in its place as a magazine. If you used this device on such a rifle, the ammunition would fall out the bottom. The device cannot possibly, in any way, load ammunition into the chamber and operate, and it does not allow for spent cases to be ejected. The device completely disables the rifle while it is in place. It can in no way be considered a magazine.

Last edited by JeffSD; 11-13-2017 at 5:17 PM..
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  #88  
Old 11-13-2017, 5:58 PM
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Just got my order today. These things are stout! Great product, well worth the small pre-order wait. Looking forward to using them soon.
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  #89  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:10 PM
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great idea but, why does it cost more than the cheapest magazine out there?
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  #90  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:16 PM
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great idea but, why does it cost more than the cheapest magazine out there?
1. There are a finite amount of consumers that need the BF-10, thus it is being produced in much smaller quantities, for higher production cost. Companies like Magpul make millions of PMags, and put millions of dollars into automating production, that's why a Pmag is $10.

2. It's not a magazine.
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  #91  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:06 PM
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economies of scale.
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  #92  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:07 PM
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Neither the BF-10 nor the MA Loader can be described as a magazine, anymore than the stripper clips that come with XM193 cans could be. The defining difference is the fact that the rifle cannot be fired with the loading device in place, the bolt cannot even move forward. The rifle is completely disabled until the loader is removed.

In fact, a round cannot even be chambered until the device is removed from the ejection port. A magazine is a device which feeds ammunition into the chamber. The BF-10 and MA Loader feed ammunition into fixed magazines.

If you took an AR with a fixed magazine and removed the magazine, you could NOT use a BF-10 or MA Loader in its place as a magazine. If you used this device on such a rifle, the ammunition would fall out the bottom. The device cannot possibly, in any way, load ammunition into the chamber and operate, and it does not allow for spent cases to be ejected. The device completely disables the rifle while it is in place. It can in no way be considered a magazine.
You nailed it. Awesome.
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  #93  
Old 11-14-2017, 1:56 AM
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great idea but, why does it cost more than the cheapest magazine out there?
It is cheaper and better made than this loader, same concept easier to use and the company is from California.
https://www.meanarms.com/products/de...oader-for-ar15
39.99

https://www.bearflagdefense.com/coll...ts/bf-10-black
34.99

I won't comment on the fact that it isn't a mag, already discussed.
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  #94  
Old 11-14-2017, 12:50 PM
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Received mine and I have to say this thing is solid. Unlike what I've seen with the MA loader breaking, I can't see any weak points on the moving parts on the BF10. Only time will tell, but right now I can say its a nice product for the games we have to play.
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  #95  
Old 11-14-2017, 2:09 PM
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Woohoo! Just received my shipping notification. Ahead of schedule too!
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  #96  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:29 AM
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Received mine and I have to say this thing is solid. Unlike what I've seen with the MA loader breaking, I can't see any weak points on the moving parts on the BF10. Only time will tell, but right now I can say its a nice product for the games we have to play.
Did you have to sign for it?
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  #97  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:59 AM
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My Bear Flag is out for delivery today!
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  #98  
Old 11-15-2017, 12:30 PM
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My Bear Flag is out for delivery today!
Ditto!
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  #99  
Old 11-15-2017, 1:14 PM
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I received my BF-10s today. Wow, they are much more solid than I was expecting. They work perfectly. I'm going to order another couple I think.
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  #100  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:42 PM
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Did you have to sign for it?
I'm not sure if it was required. It went to a pmb where they sign off for all packages regardless.
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  #101  
Old 11-15-2017, 3:51 PM
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Received mine today! They are very sturdy and should last a long time. I removed my BCG and practiced using it. It works great! You have to man up and use some muscle, this is not for wimps. After while muscle memory will take over in applying the right amount of force. Either that or it will smooth out with use. It inserts and comes out of the ejection port very easily. I tested it with both .223/5.56 and 300blk and it worked without incident. If you have an AR Pistol this is perfect! No need to pull the takedown pin to drop a mag! This is also perfect if you don't like the ugly featureless options. With a BAD leaver this is just as fast as dropping and reinserting mags. Like a dummy I inserted the rounds with the follower open and they got all out of sorts. Good thing the bottom slides off so I could dump the rounds out. Its very simple to operate but still, do yourself a favor and follow the instructions. The only complaint I have is the name "BF-10" makes it sound as though its the AR-10 version. I realize the 10 stands for the number of rounds it holds but still... I wonder what they will call the .308 version???
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  #102  
Old 11-15-2017, 4:18 PM
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I will add my thoughts, having spent the afternoon with my BF-10s now. You do have to work them with authority. And I found that they will cause a jam almost every time with my snap caps. But when I used real ammunition they operated flawlessly every time. In fact they required less force and were just smoother with real ammunition vs snap caps.

I should add that these snap caps caused me problems 100% of the time with my Steyr Scout as well. I think my snap caps might suck.

Like Urban_Legend, I took out my bolt because you just cannot take any chances when dealing with live ammunition. Once I was satisfied that I could rely on them, I loaded both up and put them in my safe with my ARs. I leave my ARs unloaded so if I were ever to need them, I will now be able to quickly load with my BF-10s. I need about 3 or 4 more.
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Old 11-15-2017, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban Legend View Post
Received mine today! They are very sturdy and should last a long time. I removed my BCG and practiced using it. It works great! You have to man up and use some muscle, this is not for wimps. After while muscle memory will take over in applying the right amount of force. Either that or it will smooth out with use. It inserts and comes out of the ejection port very easily. I tested it with both .223/5.56 and 300blk and it worked without incident. If you have an AR Pistol this is perfect! No need to pull the takedown pin to drop a mag! This is also perfect if you don't like the ugly featureless options. With a BAD leaver this is just as fast as dropping and reinserting mags. Like a dummy I inserted the rounds with the follower open and they got all out of sorts. Good thing the bottom slides off so I could dump the rounds out. Its very simple to operate but still, do yourself a favor and follow the instructions. The only complaint I have is the name "BF-10" makes it sound as though its the AR-10 version. I realize the 10 stands for the number of rounds it holds but still... I wonder what they will call the .308 version???
Glad to hear you got the hang of it!

They will loosen up as thee pieces smooth eachother out, and you will also get used to the motion as you said. The instructions say "Hard and Fast", if you keep that in mind while you're using it, you won't have an issue. When you try to do it slow, you have to really put a lot of force into it, and some folks will get frustrated at this point.

BEE EFF FIFTEEN vs. BEE EFF TEN it was a tough decision, but BF-15 is just kind of a mouthful.

...BF-10 Heavy.
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  #104  
Old 11-15-2017, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffSD View Post
I will add my thoughts, having spent the afternoon with my BF-10s now. You do have to work them with authority. And I found that they will cause a jam almost every time with my snap caps. But when I used real ammunition they operated flawlessly every time. In fact they required less force and were just smoother with real ammunition vs snap caps.

I should add that these snap caps caused me problems 100% of the time with my Steyr Scout as well. I think my snap caps might suck.

Like Urban_Legend, I took out my bolt because you just cannot take any chances when dealing with live ammunition. Once I was satisfied that I could rely on them, I loaded both up and put them in my safe with my ARs. I leave my ARs unloaded so if I were ever to need them, I will now be able to quickly load with my BF-10s. I need about 3 or 4 more.
Somethings up with your snap-caps sir. Do yourself a favor and if you reload or have a friend who does, make some without primers/powder for practice or whatever else.

Great to hear you are as confident in our product as we are!
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  #105  
Old 11-15-2017, 5:24 PM
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Any left handers order these? How are you guys using them?

So far, turning the rifle upside down and using the overhand grip is working for me, wondering if there's a better technique?

Last edited by someoneeasy; 11-15-2017 at 5:27 PM..
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  #106  
Old 11-15-2017, 5:42 PM
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Any left handers order these? How are you guys using them?

So far, turning the rifle upside down and using the overhand grip is working for me, wondering if there's a better technique?
One of our south paw friends got used to using it the same way he reloads, he just keeps his hand on the pistol grip and reloads with his right. He actually got pretty quick doing it that way.

Let us know what ends up working for you
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  #107  
Old 11-16-2017, 12:08 AM
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I got mine tonight. I compared the MA loader and the BF10 side by side. The BF10 is more hardy. I took the floor plate out a magazine and cycled about 5 loaders through the gun and magazine. Unlike the MA loader you don't have to lock in the back of the loader. There is no interference with the back of the loader and the bolt. With the MA, I had problems locking in the back of the loader, I can see eventually the back part of the loader will wear out. The BF10 is much easier to operate while the MA is not natural and takes some time to get the ammo into the gun. I have one AR set up with the MA feed ramp, the BF10 would not work for me with that setup. I am sold so far on the BF10.
When I get to the range, all 5 of the BF10's will get a workout.
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  #108  
Old 11-16-2017, 12:19 AM
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Damn I'm getting jealous...so Kevin, when will orders with green and FDE loaders get shipped?
(I guess I should've ordered all black, lol.)
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  #109  
Old 11-16-2017, 7:52 AM
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Damn I'm getting jealous...so Kevin, when will orders with green and FDE loaders get shipped?
(I guess I should've ordered all black, lol.)
We plan on having all Pre-orders shipped by the end of this weekend. We appreciate your patience.

We're almost there!
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Old 11-16-2017, 8:33 AM
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Got mine. Thanks man! Extremely well made product, works great with my DFM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 1:17 PM
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funny story:
I ordered Three loaders and a DFM.
My order came in yesterday and when I saw the mag, I was disappointed. This is a normal mag. Dang it. Maybe it never said that it was a fixed mag. My bad.

Then I went to the Franklin Armory site and watched the video. As I was watching, I realized two things.
The first thing was that, this indeed was a fixed mag.
The other thing was that an epiphany occurred while watching the video.
And that epiphany was, "Holy ****, no wonder those other mags I bought a few years ago would not come out of the lower! I had bought a bunch of 10 rounders. All of them worked except for one batch I bought. All of them wouldn't come out of the lower. Ha, ha, they were DFM mags."

Which at the time, I didn't even know what DFM stood for.
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  #112  
Old 11-16-2017, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro View Post
funny story:
I ordered Three loaders and a DFM.
My order came in yesterday and when I saw the mag, I was disappointed. This is a normal mag. Dang it. Maybe it never said that it was a fixed mag. My bad.

Then I went to the Franklin Armory site and watched the video. As I was watching, I realized two things.
The first thing was that, this indeed was a fixed mag.
The other thing was that an epiphany occurred while watching the video.
And that epiphany was, "Holy ****, no wonder those other mags I bought a few years ago would not come out of the lower! I had bought a bunch of 10 rounders. All of them worked except for one batch I bought. All of them wouldn't come out of the lower. Ha, ha, they were DFM mags."

Which at the time, I didn't even know what DFM stood for.
You were willing to pay 25 bucks each for a batch of regular ss 10 rounders? Or were they cheaper a few years ago?
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Old 11-16-2017, 2:47 PM
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You were willing to pay 25 bucks each for a batch of regular ss 10 rounders? Or were they cheaper a few years ago?
I was buying all types. I'm thinking that they were on sale and about 15 bucks each.
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  #114  
Old 11-18-2017, 7:44 PM
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My order with one FDE and two black shipped today. Scheduled for Wednesday delivery!
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