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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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Old 10-12-2018, 5:59 PM
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Thumbs up How to get a Contra Costa Co Sheriff CCW (Good advice for Napa, Yolo, SM, SLO too)

OPENING

The Contra Costa County (CoCoCo) Sheriff’s Office (SO) is issuing CCWs for “Heightened Good Cause” (GC) -- yellow on the CA CCW GC map. We haven't "won" CoCoCo since it is not green, but it has improved. Contra Costa is now the “front line” of the battle to liberate the “vital 5” SF Bay Area counties (SF, SM, SC, Ala and CoCoCo). A year ago CoCoCo had just under 300 active 2-yr Carry Concealed Weapons permits (CCWs). I'm thinking w/suitable outreach and the information in this thread, you guys could make it 10x that -- 3,000 CCWers in just a few years. While you may still not qualify, the more people who get issued now means fewer applicants will be clogging up the application process once we win a Right to Bear Arms in federal court in 2 to 3 years. Plus, hopefully, as time goes by and Sheriff Livingston has few, if any, problems with CCWers, he may further loosen up his GC standard, taking it to light green -- issuing for risks due to recreation or hobbies (e.g., hiking, backpacking, 3-gun matches), or other risks that are avoidable (e.g., walking alone along isolated beaches) -- where a lot more people will qualify.

This post is to provide law-abiding CoCoCo gun owners with insight into the process to determine whether they would qualify under Sheriff Livingston’s current Good Cause standard. I’ve spent almost 50 hours over the past couple of weeks in making this. (N.B. I do not live in CoCoCo.) To prepare this I read almost 400 posts going back to 01 Jan 2015 (#674), separating out posts re. applying using self defense/personal protection that depended upon winning the Peruta case, from those not depending upon it and using more substantial Good Cause. My guess is that, for whatever reason, Livingston loosened his GC standard slightly about 1 to 2 years ago.

I received input from several CGNers who’ve gotten CoCoCo CCWs. Most have been CGN members for several years and have made several thousand of posts, so I trust them. Only one had been a member for just under 2 years and has made under 100 posts but what they shared was consistent with the others. From all of them I learned what worked for them and over a dozen other people and what didn’t for three.

PRELIMINARY MATTER (Extremely important!!!)

(1) Concealed Carry in California is not about the federal Constitution's 2nd Amendment "Right to Keep & Bear Arms". The Ninth Circuit en banc in Peruta said there is no 2nd A Right to Concealed Carry. What you’re applying for is a CCW permit to exercise a privilege under California state law. That’s the perspective of the sheriffs and chiefs because that’s the current state of the law for California. Make it your perspective when applying, even though you may believe it is wrong. Bringing up the 2nd Amendment won’t get you anywhere and will just annoy them. Don't do it.

(2) Concealed Carry requires a permit (CCW) under CA state law. When you hear “permit”, think “permission slip”. You are requesting a permission slip to exercise a privilege of legally concealed carrying of a handgun. This sucks and sounds unconstitutional, but it’s the current state of the law. Just thank God Trump is president so, hopefully, SCOTUS will fix this sorry state of affairs. But don’t expect the sheriff to fix it -- he’s in law enforcement. He's not into making or judging laws. Don't try to debate the point. Even if you win, you won't win.

(3) A CA CCW is a May Issue permit, not Shall Issue. Getting a driver's license at the DMV is Shall Issue. There you can wear a pro marijuana T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops and look down your nose ring at the DMV Lady and still get your license. Not so here. When you hear “May Issue”, think “Mother may I?” That should be your attitude because that’s the power the sheriff has over whether he grants you a CCW or not. Don’t like it? Don’t apply. Once again: this is not about getting to carry under our federal Constitution’s 2nd A, but under our state’s statutory law. So far, as far as the Ninth Circuit is concerned, we don’t have a RBA to Concealed Carry under the 2nd A (Peruta) and they're still figuring out what to decide re. Open Carry (Young, Nichols, Flanagan). If you want to legally carry now, you have to play by the rules of the game as they are now. Otherwise, just wait until the federal courts sort things out (sometime before 2021 July 01, we hope).

If you only want to carry under the 2nd A, don't apply for a CA CCW permit and remain unarmed in public in CA for a few years until the federal courts decide what public carry right is enshrined in the 2nd A. (Will it be OC? CC? both? loaded? w/o permit or can a permit be required?) This thread is for those who'd rather CC under our state's permitting scheme until then. I keep harping on this because we, on CGN, are always talking about the 2nd A and various court battles over it. It will be easy for you to slip back into that way of thinking during the application process and talking during the interview — DON’T!!!

THE SHERIFF’S POSSE

I address this first only because it is the source of much rumor, speculation and innuendo. In fact, it is the least important of my main points.

Some knew the Sheriff from the Posse, others didn’t and aren’t even members.

Joining the Posse requires endorsing signatures of two current Posse members. IOW, they vouch for your character, giving the sheriff more confidence that you’re normal/stable/responsible/etc. If you don’t normally travel in those social circles, meeting and getting to know two members well enough to vouch for you can be a significant hurdle. Even if you do, you have to wait for an opening to join. (There are no openings currently.) And simply being a member is not sufficient. (Yes, more than one person joined just to get a CCW and still got denied.) If you regularly attend their events, you’ll eventually meet the sheriff and he’ll get to know you outside of the CCW app process. Then, when your application comes across the his desk, you’re not a stranger to him. Neither extortion or bribery are involved, but it does smack of elitism & cronyism. (What chance does a poor, single mother who lives in a crime ridden section of Richmond, doesn't have a car, takes public transportation to her two jobs, has been attacked more than once and raped have of getting two sponsors to join the Posse?) Posse membership is $100/year. List it on a separate page of general info about you, along with other charitable work.

Meeting the sheriff one-on-one at a Posse event might take a year or more. Unless you’re into hobnobbing, entering golf tournaments, formal dinners and you’d want to join regardless of getting a CCW, it may not be worth the time, money and effort involved since it isn’t a sure bet and isn’t necessary, even though it can help. IMO, even if you could join right now, we’ll have won or be about to win a 2nd A RBA at SCOTUS in 2 to 3 years. https://www.cocoposse.com/

Bottom line: joining the Posse could help you, but is not necessary if your GMC (Good Moral Character), GC and Interview are all solid according to the Sheriff’s standard.

GOOD MORAL CHARACTER

Best is clean criminal background check: no misdemeanors or felonies. Ideally, you haven’t had any contact with LEOs for “drama,” even if there were no charges (domestic disturbance calls, auto accidents, etc).

What can you do to help the sheriff determine that you have GMC? Do you support law enforcement charities, do volunteer work (local animal shelter, homeless shelter, suicide help line, clinics, youth mentor programs, retirement homes, etc.)? Attach on a separate sheet of paper. Can you provide reference letters from those organization, or from other people the Sheriff would respect? None of this is required, but nothing is refused. Show that you are a “pillar of the community”, invested in the community, and of exemplary, not just good, moral character. All this will help the SO in their assessment of your character. The Sheriff says he evaluates "the whole person" in making his decision. You don't want your "whole person" to just say "Self Defense.”

Maybe look at the causes that the Posse Charity funds to find the organizations the sheriff obviously approves of. https://www.cocoposse.com/sheriff-s-charities#!

An alternative to the Posse could be the 100 Club where Livingston is on the board. http://100clubcontracostacounty.org/

GOOD CAUSE

Treat the application like a resume (no mistakes, no misspellings, etc) and treat your GC statement like a writing sample for a job application. It should be “cogent and concise” (every word should have a purpose, a reason for being there), and “well thought out and presented”. It is your one chance to talk directly to Sheriff Livingston re. why he should permit you to carry a gun, and it’s his only chance to size you up, beyond just what you’re trying to convey with it about Good Cause per se. List your GC justifications as bullet points from most important to least. Each bullet point should be only a short paragraph (a few sentences at most). Have a logical order of sentences within each paragraph and a logical order of the words within the sentences. Make the thoughts flow linearly from beginning to end. Check your grammar, punctuation and spelling. Work on it, refine it, over a week or two since it is your only chance to talk directly to the sheriff. Be prepared to discuss your GC justifications with the interviewer.

The SO will issue you a CCW to advance public safety, not for your own personal safety unless (1) you can prove a bad guy is targeting you (a crazy ex you have police reports about and a restraining order against), or (2) there's something about you that makes you particularly vulnerable to attack (e.g., female RE agent showing houses while alone, a physical handicap or medical issue that makes fighting or fleeing impractical). (3) Work/occupation related Good Causes usually involve carrying lots of cash (e.g., rent collection), work equipment (worth several thousands of dollars), guns (e.g., FFL), drugs (MD/DDS), or other valuables (Au/Ag coin dealer, jeweler, etc.). It should be something that the average CoCoCo voter would read and think, “Yeah, it makes sense they were allowed to carry a gun.” Remember the sheriff's “boss” are the voters of CoCoCo. They — and CA — aren’t what they used to be back in the 1980s when Ronald Reagan won CA twice, or even the 1990s when Bill Baker represented the 10th Congressional District. Be sure to provide evidence to prove each reason you give for the existence of GC (e.g., copies of police reports of a stalker ex; copies of regular large cash deposits of tenants' rents; relevant business or professional licenses, photographs of your equipment, photos of you using said equipment in remote locales, etc.). Attach all those documents in the order that you list your GC reasons. I'd even bring a binder with the originals in clear plastic sheet holders in case they want to see/photocopy them themselves.

GC is not about your badass tactical training. But if you have completed a Hunter Safety course, or anything with "Safety" in the title, put that down. GC is not about your past military service (in whatever branch or capacity). Whatever you did with guns in the military (and it probably didn't involve a concealed handgun) is not relevant for civilian life. GC is not about your general fear about rising crime rates -- being "paranoid" is a non-starter. GC is not about "covering you" for your hobbies or activities that are optional for you. If you want a permit because transporting guns to 3-gun matches puts you at elevated risk, well, just stop shooting 3-gun matches, right? (Protection for hobbies and recreational activities that put you at risk would work if CoCoCo were light or dark green on the map. It isn't.)

If your GC primarily involves your work/occupation and that requires you to travel out of state, you may want to mention you have a non-resident CCW and carry when you are on the job out-of-state. N.B. If your GC does not involve work that requires traveling out of state, non resident CCWs can make you look like a "gun nut" obsessed with carrying a gun.

Continued in next post
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Last edited by Paladin; 12-10-2018 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 10-12-2018, 6:00 PM
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Default Part 2 of 3

THE INTERVIEW

Everyone who submits an application and passes the background check gets an interview by a law enforcement officer (LEO), so don’t think you’ve already been approved. Treat the interview like a job interview: Have a good night's sleep. Be freshly showered without heavy aftershave/perfume. Leave your "Be a Man Among Men" T-shirt, camouflage pants and combat boots at home. “Business casual" is appropriate for men (e.g., khakis w/penny loafers, and long sleeve Oxford if cool or warm weather, polo shirt if hot): clean & pressed. Have a good breakfast. Listen to music you enjoy on the way there. Unless otherwise specified, arrive 10 minutes early. Everyone says the staff and LEOs involved are friendly and helpful, so no need to go in there defensive, expecting to be pounced on or tricked or trapped. It’s non-confrontational: they’re just trying to understand you to discover if they should grant you the privilege of a CA CCW. But still use antiperspirant.

Some were asked about their GC, others weren’t. Be ready to explain how granting you a CCW would help public safety, and help counter the threat/risk you identified.

You may get posed hypothetical self defense scenarios. But again, this will be in a friendly conversational style, not as a pop quiz to trap you. (IMO, emphasize "run, hide, fight" and calling 911. On why you need a gun vs just pepper spray: "deadly force is needed to stop deadly threats." Officers don't reach for pepper spray or tasers when someone is shooting at them or stabbing them.)

The interviewing LEO and Sheriff want to feel safe allowing you to be armed in the same restaurant or store with his wife and children, day or night, when you’re alert or tired, happy or angry. They want to know that you’re mentally and emotionally stable. Think of this as an extension of the GMC check, as an informal, free psychological evaluation. They probably ask the office staff that help you what you were like, so be patient, pleasant and polite to all involved (as you do in all your normal interactions with all people, right?) They could even have someone look over and into your car while you’re being interviewed, or review the video of your car when you’re on their grounds. Do you have an old “Kill a Commie for Mommy” bumper sticker? A “From my cold, dead hands...” window decal? You may be stereotyped as a “gun nut.” Is your car dirty on the outside and/or messy on the inside? Bald tires? Body damage? Did you drive fast or park rudely because you can't manage your time? They can even pull your residence up on Google Maps’ street view: Is your house and yard clean and well maintained “like a good neighbor”, a “pillar of the community”? If you don’t manage yourself to maintain those possessions well, how likely are you to manage yourself to maintain your weapon? to maintain your temper, your emotional balance when someone cuts you off in traffic? Why should Livingston entrust the irresponsible with the responsibility of a CCW permit with his signature on it? They don't expect perfection, but you can see how this all logically fits together. If you think none of that should matter, that even messy and irresponsible people should be able to protect their lives, I agree, but you’re still approaching getting a CCW from a Rights perspective, not a privilege perspective.

Do you have anger issues? (“God damn it! It’s my RIGHT as an American!” while pounding on the LEO interviewer's desk. Really happened.) Are you paranoid? (“ISIS is after me!”) Are you bitter about your divorce? (“I just know my ex-husband is following me.” You have no evidence against him, but he has evidence and restraining order against you.) Guess what? No CCW for you! That’s why one person suggested they’re looking to see if you conform to an “issuable profile.” You want to show them that you’re a decent, law-abiding, responsible, easy-going, emotionally stable, mature adult. Think Ward Cleaver. You want to have a good attitude, be relaxed and friendly, but also reasonable, responsible, mature, conscientious, and self disciplined. While they're friendly, you’re not at a bar with your drinking buddy either, so no off color jokes, etc., even if the LEO might laugh at it off duty.

Put yourself in Sheriff Livingston’s shoes. You’d ask yourself, “Is this the kind of person that I am willing to stick my neck out for by issuing them a permit to carry a gun in public?” If you don’t meet this standard now, do not apply now. Get your life together, clean up your act and apply after that. Until then, just carry pepper spray and obey the 4-S Rule (avoid Stupid people, avoid doing Stupid things, avoid going to Stupid places, and avoid being out at Stupid times). Livingston doesn’t want to arm Drama Queens — that’s just asking for trouble (and political fallout).

MISCELLANEOUS

ALL of the CGNers or other CoCoCo CCWers they know (either personally, from IDPA or from SO class/qualification), were in their late 20s or older.

6 to 8 weeks after the interview you’ll get a decision.

No one mentioned having to get a psychological assessment or hearing of anyone having to. My guess is if it’s that close, they just “err on the safe side” and deny you.

No one had a residence check, so you probably don’t have to worry about them asking your anti-2nd Amendment neighbors if you should get a CCW.

Some didn’t donate to the sheriff’s campaign or to the Posse. Some did to one or the other. One donated to Posse before and after getting issued and to his campaign after getting issued (out of thanks and to keep Livingston in office).

Download the application form instead of just printing it so you can fill in the fields on your computer before printing it, versus just printing it out and using a typewriter or filling it out by hand. That way it looks more polished and you can spend time crafting your statements to your liking.

Some live in affluent areas, others don’t.

Some listed, among other GC reasons, “self defense” while others felt even mentioning that was a negative.

Avoid going too far off on tangents (e.g., politics, current events) during the interview unless the interviewer leads you there. Don't talk yourself out of a CCW.

Participate in CoCoCo IDPA events (Richmond HotShots), to meet CoCoCo CCWers and get direct input from them re. the process. They might be willing to review your app and GC statement prior to submission.

ETA: Be sure to list any active/reserve military duty, LE/reserves, and shooting training, RSO, competitive shooting, etc, not for GC, but as part of your GMC, to show that you are trained, competent and trustworthy for public carry. So just briefly list it, but do not focus on it. They'll ask about it during the interview if they want more details.

IN CLOSING

Remember: CoCoCo is 50% Dem and only 22% Repub — the sheriff is an elected official and the local media and most of his constituents (aka voters) are liberals. He can’t get too far ahead of his voters. If a CCWer did a questionable shoot or was involved in a road rage shooting and the media showed their GC was weak or just “self defense,” the sheriff would get crucified and replaced at the next election and CoCoCo would go dark red. While the sheriff may not be held legally liable for issuing someone a CCW, until we get a state "Shall Issue" CCW statute from Sacto and/or a federal Constitutional RBA from CA9 or SCOTUS, the press and voters may hold him politically liable for it.

Yellow still means the average law-abiding resident cannot get a CCW, but if you have elevated GC (regularly make large cash deposits or valuable equipment/drugs for your business or you’ve had threats against you), and everything else is clean, you may get one. It only costs the amount of a LiveScan to find out and a denial for insufficient GC won’t hurt your chances in the future.

As I read what was sent to me, I saw a few GCs that indicated that CoCoCo is light green and others that it is still light red, but most made me think it was yellow. What that means is: (1) I am confident it is currently yellow. (2) But remember, even if your GC fits yellow, you may get denied. (3) If your GC fits light green (risks due to recreational activities or hobbies) and if your background check, GMC and interview are all excellent, even you MAY get issued. Go for it if you can afford to waste the time, money (LiveScan fee) and effort involved. Remember the Sheriff can loosen or tighten his GC standard anytime he wants. You won't know if you can pass until you apply.

If you do apply, after you’ve been approved or denied, please post your experience so others can learn from it. (But don’t be so specific that you can be identified by what you post.) If you want to remain even more anonymous, PM me it and I’ll post it for you under my username just saying it was from another CGNer.

“Stay Calm and Carry On.”

Here's a link to CoCoCo SO's CCW webpage:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

P.S. I recommend watching this San Diego County Gun Owners video on applying for a CCW with Sheriff Gore. SD Co is currently light green on the map, so there will be differences, but it is still worth viewing.



Below is the CA CCW GC map. This image gets updated automatically with every revision, so the colors it has when you look at it may not be the colors it had when I posted this.

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Last edited by Paladin; 12-10-2018 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 10-12-2018, 6:37 PM
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Default Part 3 of 3

(1) Most of this information probably applies to most of the remaining non-green counties, especially the light red ones (Yolo and San Mateo), so be sure to share it with others in those counties who want CCWs. ETA: I'd also recommend this advice for people living in Napa and SLO counties: while they are both currently "light green" on the map, they very well may actually be "yellow."

If you/they live in Sonoma Co., just wait to apply until after Essick takes office as sheriff. From what he's said in public to the Sonoma Co Dem and GOP parties, I expect him to take Sonoma to light green on the map. I've posted those videos and/or links to them in the main Sonoma Co CCW Info thread.

(2) I went to the IDPA website and there's one club in CoCoCo:

Richmond Hotshots
http://www.richmondhotshots.com/

and two that are relatively nearby. Depending upon where you live they could be closer than Richmond.

Twin Sisters Action Pistol Shooting (Fairfield)
http://www.twinsistersactionpistol.com/

and

Sacramento Defensive Pistol Shooters
https://sdps-idpa.org/

(3) I was going over the favorable and unfavorable factors that LAPD uses, and would not be surprised if CoCoCo SO uses something similar.

Quote:
Favorable Factors.
Among facts upon which the Department will, in the exercise of its
discretion, look favorably in considering applications are whether: a) the applicant has a
demonstrated record of responsible handling of firearms; b) the applicant has a commitment to
safe and responsible handling of firearms as shown by having voluntarily taken firearms training;
c) the applicant has a record of good citizenship in general as evidenced, for instance, by service
to the community through such activities as creditable service in the armed forces, including the
National Guard and state militia or in the police reserves, or of active participation in charitable
or public service organizations or activities or in political affairs; d) the applicant is trustworthy
and responsible as evidenced, for instance, by employment history, positions held in civic,
political, religious or secular achievements or record of personal accomplishment in other areas
of endeavor; e) that the applicant suffers under a disability or physical handicap, including age or
obesity, which hinders the applicant's ability to retreat from an attacker.

Unfavorable Factors. Factors which will bear negatively on issuance (unless they appear
to be in the remote past) are: a) the applicant has a long-term history of mental or emotional
instability, alcoholism, drug use or addiction to controlled substances; b) the applicant has a
history of fault in serious accidents with firearms, automobiles or other dangerous
instrumentalities; c) the applicant has had a permit to own or carry a concealed weapon denied,
suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority; d) the applicant has had a driver's
license denied, suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority; e) the applicant
has a long-term record of irresponsible and dangerous behavior with automobiles as indicated by
numerous convictions of serious driving offenses; f) the applicant has a long-term history of
conduct from which it appears that he or she is not now of good moral character, trustworthy or
responsible. While none of the foregoing disqualify an applicant per se, a license will be denied
if it appears, in the discretion of the Department, that the applicant does not now have good
character or that issuance of a license to him/her is not consistent with public safety.
From: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1423638

(4) Another CGNer who's applied contacted me. He said that the initial process is currently FAST: mailed in app, got LiveScan paperwork several workdays later, got LiveScanned next day, got the call to set up an interview appointment few workdays later and interview was about a week after that. Total time: 2.5 weeks! Unfortunately, he got his denial letter about 1.5 weeks after that.
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Last edited by Paladin; 11-14-2018 at 11:21 PM..
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Old 10-12-2018, 7:15 PM
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Thank for for all your hard work on this! What coco IDPA matches and locations do you recommend? I generally make the (short) drive to Richmond but wouldnít mind joining here for some extra networking and meeting my neighbors.


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Old 10-12-2018, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerzone002 View Post
Thank for for all your hard work on this! What coco IDPA matches and locations do you recommend? I generally make the (short) drive to Richmond but wouldn’t mind joining here for some extra networking and meeting my neighbors.
I don't know. I was told this from one of my sources. They can post a reply or can PM me their reply and I'll post it for them anonymously.

I don't live in CoCoCo, just doing this to help break the anti stronghold known as the SFBA.

Just go to the IDPA website and see what clubs they have in CoCoCo or ask in the main CoCo CCW Info thread.
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Old 10-12-2018, 8:08 PM
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Thank you for all of the time, effort and hard work you put into this Paladin! I know all us CoCo County residents truly appreciate it! Very well written and thought out.

I know it will take a bit for me to read, re-read for everything to sink in. It IS encouraging to see that CoCoCo is yellow vs. Red/Dark Red.

Again, thank you!!!
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Old 10-12-2018, 8:12 PM
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Very interesting, articulate and well written. Thank you.
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Old 10-12-2018, 9:16 PM
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Strong Work.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:01 PM
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Thanks Paladin for taking the time and effort to put together this great information. I think it would be fantastic if CoCo County residents made a concerted effort to utilize this information and obtain more CCW permits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Everyone who submits an application and passes the background check gets an interview.

You may get posed hypothetical self defense scenarios. But again, this will be a friendly conversational style, not as a pop quiz to trap you.

The interviewing LEO and Sheriff want to feel safe allowing you to be armed in the same room with his wife and children, day or night, when youíre tired, happy or angry.
As a firearms instructor who teaches a multi-state CCW class, I devote part of the class to understanding the legal requirements for self-defense, how to articulate imminent threat, the importance of de-escalation and interacting with police. If there is enough interest I would be happy to go over this material with prospective CoCo County applicants to help them pass the interview portion.

All we would need is enough interested people, a suitable venue (Richmond Rod & Gun Club perhaps?) and a nominal donation to cover any classroom rental. My own time would be pro bono. PM me if you are interested. If there's enough interest I'll look into setting something up.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
Thanks Paladin for taking the time and effort to put together this great information. I think it would be fantastic if CoCo County residents made a concerted effort to utilize this information and obtain more CCW permits.







As a firearms instructor who teaches a multi-state CCW class, I devote part of the class to understanding the legal requirements for self-defense, how to articulate imminent threat, the importance of de-escalation and interacting with police. If there is enough interest I would be happy to go over this material with prospective CoCo County applicants to help them pass the interview portion.



All we would need is enough interested people, a suitable venue (Richmond Rod & Gun Club perhaps?) and a nominal donation to cover any classroom rental. My own time would be pro bono. PM me if you are interested. If there's enough interest I'll look into setting something up.


Thank you for the offer! I would be very interested in this!!!

Honestly would like to get a multistate CCW but it would have zero practicality for me.
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Old 10-20-2018, 3:12 PM
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Paladin,

Well done on all your hard work. That was tremendous. Much appreciated (and I don't live in CoCo).
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Old 10-20-2018, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by thebronze View Post
Paladin,

Well done on all your hard work. That was tremendous. Much appreciated (and I don't live in CoCo).
Thanks.

I forgot a major point: to say "Thank you to all those who confided in me re. their application process. I literally could not have done it without you." Some of them will recognize some of their own writing in what I posted above. It's because I literally could not say it any better.

FWIW, reviewing it could also help those in "light green" counties make their applications, GC statements and interviews stronger, improving their odds of being issued (aka reducing their odds of not being issued).

FYI, I keep editing it, refining it, improving it, so if you are about to apply, best to read through it one more time just before submitting your application and again before the interview.
Check the last edit time & date on the bottom left of the first 3 posts to see when they were last revised.
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Old 10-21-2018, 7:47 AM
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Great write up Paladin. I was one of the people that got denied before and if I still lived in contra Costa would apply again based on this.
I moved to El Dorado a few years ago and was issued immediately.


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Old 10-24-2018, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I don't know. I was told this from one of my sources. They can post a reply or can PM me their reply and I'll post it for them anonymously.

I don't live in CoCoCo, just doing this to help break the anti stronghold known as the SFBA.

Just go to the IDPA website and see what clubs they have in CoCoCo or ask in the main CoCo CCW Info thread.
I went to the IDPA website and there's one club in CoCoCo:

Richmond Hotshots
http://www.richmondhotshots.com/

and two that are relatively nearby, depending upon where you live in CoCoCo:

Twin Sisters Action Pistol Shooting (Fairfield)
http://www.twinsistersactionpistol.com/

and

Sacramento Defensive Pistol Shooters
https://sdps-idpa.org/

I emailed all of them to let them know about this thread so they can pass it along to their members and others who may be interested.

I've added the above to the 3rd post in this thread.
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Old 10-25-2018, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I went to the IDPA website and there's one club in CoCoCo:

Richmond Hotshots
http://www.richmondhotshots.com/

and two that are relatively nearby:

Twin Sisters Action Pistol Shooting (Fairfield)
http://www.twinsistersactionpistol.com/

and

Sacramento Defensive Pistol Shooters
https://sdps-idpa.org/

I emailed all of them to let them know about this thread so they can pass it along to their members and others who may be interested.

I've added the above to the 3rd post in this thread.


Thanks for that! I shoot at Richmond but had no idea that was CoCoCo, whoops!


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Old 10-27-2018, 8:09 PM
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Thank you for posting this. I guess I just need to ask around at the next Richmond match to see who has a ccw in coco so I can get the ball rolling..
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Old 10-28-2018, 7:38 AM
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From 2017 Feb 21:

Quote:
According to Nate McCormack, Lieutenant with the Sheriffs Office, he cited safety and privacy concerns as to why addresses were not released.

“We try and balance the needs of the public and the people who want or need access to the information to ensure everyone’s safety,” said McCormack.

McCormack says that currently, the county has 317 CCW permits issued with 290 of them being to regular citizens. He also added that 17% of all applicants are approved.
From: http://eastcountytoday.net/sheriffs-...tions-to-abc7/
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:17 PM
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Great write up and a good read for anyone thinking about CCW.
-g
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man WC View Post
Great write up and a good read for anyone thinking about CCW.
-g


Have you taken the plunge G-Man? Or are you considering it?

Iím still mulling it over to see if I have enough of a heightened good cause. Iíve written a rough draft and trying to see if other reasons or justifications apply.

The one person that I know that recently got his CCW did have heightened GC. This was back in August. An acquaintance of his also similarly had heightened GC with a similar set of circumstances.
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Old 11-18-2018, 8:16 AM
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I'm cross posting this post by San Diego Co Gun Owners for 2 reasons: (1) to reemphasize that any GC reasons w/o proof (evidence that reason is true/exist) are ignored. (2) To remind you guys that if Sheriff Gore could be convinced to liberalize issuance in SD Co from dark red to light green, Sheriff Livingston could be convinced to liberalize issuance in CoCoCo too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC View Post
Sheriff Gore is issuing. About 600 in the first 12 months since the change in policy September of 2017. And they are now issuing around 40 CCWs per week.

We have put together a video, a Good Cause Worksheet, and list of good cause statements to help you. We are also teaching pre CCW classes all over the county. The success rate it well over 95%.

The hardest thing for people to wrap their head around is that the emphasis is not on your good cause. The emphasis is on proof.

For example: a good cause that is based on hiking and camping would require proof that you hike and camp. How do you prove that? We worked with the sheriff to come up with acceptable ways to prove that you hike and camp. Log books, calendars, pictures, receipts from campgrounds are all examples.


If you can pass a background check, pass the class, pay the fee, and apply...you are about 15 sentences away from a CCW in San Diego.

It takes a minimal amount of effort to review our material.

We are also working on getting the sheriff to use software designed to streamline the process. I hope to get that done early in 2019. They have hired more staff and most people are getting their approval letter in fewer than 90 days from the first appointment.

We continue to be happy with what we have accomplished. Everyone was skeptical about the idea of getting Gore to change. But...we did it.

Here is the info on CCWs: www.sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw

And here is how to join SDCGO as a member: www.SDCGO.org/join
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Old 11-18-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I'm cross posting this post by San Diego Co Gun Owners for 2 reasons: (1) to reemphasize that any GC reasons w/o proof (evidence that reason is true/exist) are ignored. (2) To remind you guys that if Sheriff Gore could be convinced to liberalize issuance in SD Co from dark red to light green, Sheriff Livingston could be convinced to liberalize issuance in CoCoCo too.
Thank you Paladin for posting this! Timing is excellent as I'm getting ready to complete my CCW application especially after what happened last night.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1490510
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Old 11-24-2018, 6:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Thank you Paladin for posting this! Timing is excellent as I'm getting ready to complete my CCW application especially after what happened last night.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1490510
IMO, you are most vulnerable when you are walking from your car to your front door (or vice versa), esp with arms full of bags or children, or when in your car stopped in front of your garage waiting for it to open and then once inside waiting for it to close. IOW, when you can easily be ambushed by a BG "lying in wait".
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Old 11-24-2018, 9:37 AM
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Thank you for the effort...

One thing I read was you stated in "in closing" a denial will not hurt future application's,
but in the lapd quote it reads a denial is bad.

One other thing, I live in napa edit... County propper..., it is a 2-3 hr drive to shoot for free, otherwise it is pay to play.
Last time I looked up twin sisters the county pulled their permit due to noise complaints???
I do not know if this has changed or not.

Thanx again, cb
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Old 11-24-2018, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
IMO, you are most vulnerable when you are walking from your car to your front door (or vice versa), esp when arms of bags or children, or when being stopped in front of your garage waiting for it to open and then once inside waiting for it to close. IOW, when you can easily be ambushed by a BG "lying in wait".


Thank you!!! Totally agree.


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Old 11-24-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
Thank you for the effort...

One thing I read was you stated in "in closing" a denial will not hurt future application's,
but in the lapd quote it reads a denial is bad.
A denial for cause is bad. A denial 'because this is LA and we hate you' is neutral.
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Old 11-24-2018, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
One thing I read was you stated in "in closing" a denial will not hurt future application's,
but in the lapd quote it reads a denial is bad.
LAPD says, "c) the applicant has had a permit to own or carry a concealed weapon denied, suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority."

If you got a CCW and then it got suspended or revoked "for good cause" (i.e., you were a bad boy), that's definitely going to be an issue.

If you were denied a CCW "for good cause", in context that's referring to you doing something like lying on your application (e.g., re. residence, prior convictions, etc). That's also going to be an issue.

If you were denied for lack of Good Moral Character (e.g., you had a DUI from 10 years before the app), that may be an issue. If that denial was another 10 years ago, and you've had not alcohol/drug problems since then, they may (or may not), decide you've cleaned your act up.

If you were denied for insufficient Good Cause (i.e., you couldn't justify getting a CCW or couldn't prove your GC), that's unlikely to be an issue because every IA gets to set it's own standard and what matters now is the Good Cause you can prove now and how that compares to this IA's GC standard now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
One other thing, I live in napa, it is a 2-3 hr drive to shoot for free, otherwise it is pay to play.
Last time I looked up twin sisters the county pulled their permit due to noise complaints???
I do not know if this has changed or not.
If you live in the City of Napa, you have to apply with the Napa PD and they're restrictive. They've done what we used to call a "reverse G" and used to be illegal, but which is now legal -- entered into an agreement with the sheriff that he won't issue CCWs to Napa City residents. I'd guess they're light red, but that's only a guess.

If you live in Napa County, but not in the City of Napa, the sheriff does issue, but IMO right between light green and yellow. So, if you want to suck it up re. range time/training and go for a CCW, I'd follow as much of this CoCoCo county advice just to be on the safe side.

You might want to ask about where to shoot for free at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=305
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Last edited by Paladin; 12-07-2018 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 11-25-2018, 3:08 AM
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Paladin, that was a great read. You hit the ball out of the park. I have dealt with 3 Sheriff's and many civilian clerks and LEO in 25 years of dealing with SDSO. You said it all. Anyone who wants a CCW should read your thorough yet succinct advice. You didn't waste a word. All that advice is important in one situation or another. I had to laugh about the "posse stuff". In San Diego Sheriff's Honorary Deputies Association of circa 2008 there were no denials of any permits. The picture below shows Sheriff Kolander giving me a cop wallet with a flat badge at a welcoming new members shindag. It took 10 months of diplomacy and street fighting to get that badge and CCW. Keep up the great service to the California public.
Mark Cleary
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Old 11-25-2018, 9:05 AM
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Thank you gentleman for the clarification.
Much appreciated.
Cb
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:23 PM
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This is FANTASTIC work Paladin. I’m not sure I have sufficient GC so for now I won’t apply, but as soon as I hear from you or others that CoCoCo is light green, I’ll be at the front of the line, with a printed version of this post in my pocket.

-S
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