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  #1  
Old 02-16-2012, 3:23 PM
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Default SA/DA - 9mm.

Hey Fellas,

For my next Iím looking for a decent SA/DA 9mmÖ

Iíve narrowed my search to:
CZ 75B (Hard to come by right now)
Beretta 92FS (M9) (order)
FNP-9 (I really like this unit, but will have to be ordered as well).


Any other quality piece Iíve left out? Iím trying to stay under $600 before tax and all other applicable fees.



Also, anyone have experience with these units?
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:45 PM
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Ha ha, check out my thread, I just took my CZ-75b SP-01 to the range. It's fantastic!

I don't own all three, but I've shot all three. You can't go wrong with any of them. My preference is the CZ though just for no real reason. A new 75s trigger will smooth out after a while, but mine started off gritty. My friend's FNP had a very nice trigger on it.

As with any pistol comparison question, you just have to go shoot all three and buy the one that puts more bullets in the bullseye!


Is the Browning Hipower DA/SA?
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:48 PM
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Have you looked at the Beretta Px4?
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:49 PM
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HK USP might be in your price range, used. You can carry cocked and locked, or hammer down and DA, or hammer down and DA and safety on.

You've probably already considered Sigs; the 2022 is a pretty good bargain.
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac7504 View Post
Hey Fellas,

For my next Iím looking for a decent SA/DA 9mmÖ

Iíve narrowed my search to:
CZ 75B (Hard to come by right now)
Beretta 92FS (M9) (order)
FNP-9 (I really like this unit, but will have to be ordered as well).


Any other quality piece Iíve left out? Iím trying to stay under $600 before tax and all other applicable fees.



Also, anyone have experience with these units?
I am a Beretta fan - always have been. They fit my hand great, are very accurate, and can take whatever ammo I decide to put through it. The ergonomics of the slide mounted safety take a little getting used to but after a little practice it is pretty easy to hit every time you draw from a holster. I have the 92a1 and couldn't be happier. The only modifications I have made is a Hogue wraparound grip and Beretta's metal oversized mag release. If you are trying to keep the price under $600 i would also highly recommend looking at the SigPro 2022. It is a polymer framed gun so it is a bit lighter than the 92. It also doesn't have an external safety for you to worry about. I have had the opportunity to fire my friend's and it is a very nice weapon (I might even consider picking one up for myself). The only real downside is that magazines are relatively expensive (around 40-50 bucks retail).
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:54 PM
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Sig 2022
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2012, 3:57 PM
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I have only shot 4 9mm's
glock 17
sa xd 9mm 4inch
some no name 9mm when i was 15
berreta 92sf

I was able to get the best grouping with the glock 17 gen 3 no gen 4 for me yet lol.

i have an xd 9mm 4inch which i really enjoy but im getting 1/2in better grouping average with glock.

we use the beretta 92 for our side arm in the AF they're not bad but are little over 600 by themselves.
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:57 PM
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CZ is a good choice, they shoot well.
I will second the HK though if you can find one used you can get in your price range. You can run it cocked and locked like a 1911 (SA) or run it DA/SA. Also, the slide has to be the easiest to manipulate for all my handguns. great shooter and RELIABLE. It's my nightstand gun.
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Old 02-16-2012, 3:58 PM
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I would highly recommend CZ-75 SP01. It's worth the extra effort to find it. The gun is solidly built, and has that satisfying heft that comes with a well made product. This weight makes the recoil of the 9mm cartridge feel like a .22lr and follow up shots are simply too easy. The slide-in-frame design makes for a lower bore over grip height and really helps keep a solid fit between slide and frame. Some people may think that the slide in frame design makes it harder to operate the slide, but with the agressive racking serrations and factory night sights, slide manipulation for clearing jams, reloading, and other drills is quite easy. The CZ-SP01 also has a very natural and comfortable grip angle, which makes shooting multitudes of rounds very enjoyable. The trigger for the CZ is nice and smooth in SA but the reset is not as defined as it is in a glock. DA is a bit long IMHO, but doable. Personally, I would carry this gun cocked and locked.

I cannot speak for the FN, but I have shot the beretta when I was initially shopping for guns. Personally, I find the grip to be too wide and slightly clumsy in my hands. Then again, I have slender medium hands.

Go shoot them all and see what makes you happiest. Mechanically speaking, they're all solid choices. Hope this helps!
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2012, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrice6 View Post
Sig 2022
^ this

or a Taurus or Beretta 92

The CZ-75B has a trigger (in DA mode) that is a bit far for me to reach, but I guess I have small hands.
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2012, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
Ha ha, check out my thread, I just took my CZ-75b SP-01 to the range. It's fantastic!

I don't own all three, but I've shot all three. You can't go wrong with any of them. My preference is the CZ though just for no real reason. A new 75s trigger will smooth out after a while, but mine started off gritty. My friend's FNP had a very nice trigger on it.

As with any pistol comparison question, you just have to go shoot all three and buy the one that puts more bullets in the bullseye!


Is the Browning Hipower DA/SA?
I will go ahead and review your thread, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank92612 View Post
Have you looked at the Beretta Px4?
I did; I didn't like the feel, it felt too fat for my lil hands...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
HK USP might be in your price range, used. You can carry cocked and locked, or hammer down and DA, or hammer down and DA and safety on.

You've probably already considered Sigs; the 2022 is a pretty good bargain.
For some reason, I don't like purcahsing used, though I may look into it (probably not the best practice, I'm sure I could find good used units).

I really wish Sig had them rolling in but they have been on order for a while. I was waiting for Turners to catch up on deliveries but they are still pretty backlogged.

Essentially, I can't wait for the SP2022 anymore so I've started to look into other units, it was actually my first option, but I'm impatient.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2012, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
^ this

or a Taurus or Beretta 92

The CZ-75B has a trigger (in DA mode) that is a bit far for me to reach, but I guess I have small hands.
LOL, then I might have issues with that one...I've got lil hands (I'd say medium)...sigh. haha
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2012, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac7504 View Post
LOL, then I might have issues with that one...I've got lil hands (I'd say medium)...sigh. haha
Rule out the HK then. Maybe the HK compact (which is about the size of a lot of full size guns) could be a good fit.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2012, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdaspeed Jon View Post
I am a Beretta fan - always have been. They fit my hand great, are very accurate, and can take whatever ammo I decide to put through it. The ergonomics of the slide mounted safety take a little getting used to but after a little practice it is pretty easy to hit every time you draw from a holster. I have the 92a1 and couldn't be happier. The only modifications I have made is a Hogue wraparound grip and Beretta's metal oversized mag release. If you are trying to keep the price under $600 i would also highly recommend looking at the SigPro 2022. It is a polymer framed gun so it is a bit lighter than the 92. It also doesn't have an external safety for you to worry about. I have had the opportunity to fire my friend's and it is a very nice weapon (I might even consider picking one up for myself). The only real downside is that magazines are relatively expensive (around 40-50 bucks retail).
I've always liked them as well (well as a kid - pellet gun : )), and my price limit is not all that firm, so the Beretta is not entirely out.

Are you referring to the Sig's mag? If so, geesh!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrice6 View Post
Sig 2022
Looking, waiting for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jloffermann View Post
I have only shot 4 9mm's
glock 17
sa xd 9mm 4inch
some no name 9mm when i was 15
berreta 92sf

I was able to get the best grouping with the glock 17 gen 3 no gen 4 for me yet lol.

i have an xd 9mm 4inch which i really enjoy but im getting 1/2in better grouping average with glock.

we use the beretta 92 for our side arm in the AF they're not bad but are little over 600 by themselves.
Absolutely no Glock for me, no reason other than everyone has one...
I looked at the XDm 4.5 but no hammer (SA/DA).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodemonkey View Post
CZ is a good choice, they shoot well.
I will second the HK though if you can find one used you can get in your price range. You can run it cocked and locked like a 1911 (SA) or run it DA/SA. Also, the slide has to be the easiest to manipulate for all my handguns. great shooter and RELIABLE. It's my nightstand gun.
I will have to fondle them some more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uruz003 View Post
I would highly recommend CZ-75 SP01. It's worth the extra effort to find it. The gun is solidly built, and has that satisfying heft that comes with a well made product. This weight makes the recoil of the 9mm cartridge feel like a .22lr and follow up shots are simply too easy. The slide-in-frame design makes for a lower bore over grip height and really helps keep a solid fit between slide and frame. Some people may think that the slide in frame design makes it harder to operate the slide, but with the agressive racking serrations and factory night sights, slide manipulation for clearing jams, reloading, and other drills is quite easy. The CZ-SP01 also has a very natural and comfortable grip angle, which makes shooting multitudes of rounds very enjoyable. The trigger for the CZ is nice and smooth in SA but the reset is not as defined as it is in a glock. DA is a bit long IMHO, but doable. Personally, I would carry this gun cocked and locked.

I cannot speak for the FN, but I have shot the beretta when I was initially shopping for guns. Personally, I find the grip to be too wide and slightly clumsy in my hands. Then again, I have slender medium hands.

Go shoot them all and see what makes you happiest. Mechanically speaking, they're all solid choices. Hope this helps!
Thank you for you input; I will have to go see if my local range has a few to shoot. So I hear the reset for the CZ is long, I'm kinda not liking that. However, I guess I need to feel it first.
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2012, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodemonkey View Post
Rule out the HK then. Maybe the HK compact (which is about the size of a lot of full size guns) could be a good fit.
I run a full size M&P .40/.357 sig, and have no issues, then again, I do have the small backstraps on. HK comparable in size to the MP?
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:15 PM
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For $600 you could get an older non-rail P226
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:15 PM
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Cz, fnp, or sig 2022
can't go wrong and all under $600
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac7504 View Post
I run a full size M&P .40/.357 sig, and have no issues, then again, I do have the small backstraps on. HK comparable in size to the MP?
Not really in grip size. The M&P (IMO) has a much better ergo design. But if you have handled a Beretta then you can handle the USP. No worries.
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:22 PM
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Where are you from, op? I can't see on my phone. Ill let you shoot my FNH if local for a bit.
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac7504 View Post
I run a full size M&P .40/.357 sig, and have no issues, then again, I do have the small backstraps on. HK comparable in size to the MP?
You're probably not going to find a grip more comfortable than an M&P in my opinion. But if you are using the small backstrap, then the full size HK is going to be a lot of trigger reach for you. The compact HK will be a little smaller but you need to see if it fits your hand. That's really the bottom line. It's a great gun, but if it's not comfortable for you then look elsewhere.

All the guys I know that have CZs love them. I don't want to throw a wrench into the works, but the SAO CZ75 is a sweet trigger even out of the box. It comes darn near close to a 1911 after a trigger job from what I understand. But it's not a DA/SA.

I have to tell you that I'm not a big fan of DA/SA, that DA pull is hard to master on the first pull. I was at front site for a 4 day class and the guy with the Sig never got it after 30 hours of shooting, it was always low on his first shot. I run my HK cocked and locked like a 1911 and I even compete with it in IDPA. Not knocking your choice... just my opinion.
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:45 PM
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Where are you from, op? I can't see on my phone. Ill let you shoot my FNH if local for a bit.
Downey, CA. Chino is not too far from me; that would be awesome, if you wouldn't mind (I've had folks make offer but not reply after)...lol. Heading up to Burro Sunday actually, where do you shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodemonkey View Post
You're probably not going to find a grip more comfortable than an M&P in my opinion. But if you are using the small backstrap, then the full size HK is going to be a lot of trigger reach for you. The compact HK will be a little smaller but you need to see if it fits your hand. That's really the bottom line. It's a great gun, but if it's not comfortable for you then look elsewhere.

All the guys I know that have CZs love them. I don't want to throw a wrench into the works, but the SAO CZ75 is a sweet trigger even out of the box. It comes darn near close to a 1911 after a trigger job from what I understand. But it's not a DA/SA.

I have to tell you that I'm not a big fan of DA/SA, that DA pull is hard to master on the first pull. I was at front site for a 4 day class and the guy with the Sig never got it after 30 hours of shooting, it was always low on his first shot. I run my HK cocked and locked like a 1911 and I even compete with it in IDPA. Not knocking your choice... just my opinion.
Yeah, I probably won't like that at all.

I hear really, really good things about CZ, particularly the 75b and 75b-Sp-01 Phantom; truly, the only thing holding me back is that I will be on a list with 4 other folks and who knows when I'd get one.

With regard to throwing another option in, not at all; I really value what others bring to the table when disussing this stuff. I will look into that unit as well. Thanks.

I've read about certain issues relating to DA/SA, but the units I've looked into have a relatively decent setup for what they are.
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:50 PM
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Check out the M&P. I love mine and I have medium size hands. Over 3,000 rounds through it and not a hiccup.
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
that DA pull is hard to master on the first pull. I was at front site for a 4 day class and the guy with the Sig never got it after 30 hours of shooting, it was always low on his first shot.
They didn't know how to teach the DA trigger stroke at Front Sight

It isn't that hard, I can teach it in about an hour. I really think the SIG 2022 is a great gun at a great price, but I'm not great at waiting either...but then I'm always open to buying a used SIG 226 or 228
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Old 02-16-2012, 4:55 PM
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Check out the M&P. I love mine and I have medium size hands. Over 3,000 rounds through it and not a hiccup.
I have one already. ; )) and love mine as well (I love swapping barrels, .357 sig is my favorite, just not the price of ammo).


I'm looking for something with a "hammer" as well.
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
They didn't know how to teach the DA trigger stroke at Front Sight

It isn't that hard, I can teach it in about an hour. I really think the SIG 2022 is a great gun at a great price, but I'm not great at waiting either...but then I'm always open to buying a used SIG 226 or 228

Hmm, I will have to look into this DA Trigger stroke at front sight you speak of.


Right now, it's looking FN, CZ, Sig 2022 (If I could wait) or Berretta (still a long list) ha.

I will, however, be reviewing the units you guys have suggested.

Thanks.
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:08 PM
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:15 PM
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All three are solid but are very different ergonomicly. Have you tried any of them yet? If not I suggest trying them and choose the one you shoot best.
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:16 PM
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Im open to shooting at Burro or Angeles as I want to shoot my mauser. I usually dont have weekends off, though.

My 1 year experience with a 2007 manufactured fnp-9: Its my first handgun and shooting it in double was hard for me. I had a bad trigger pull and I was anticipating recoil. I now have 1000 rounds in it and Ive improved. Ive shot it in double action FAR more than I have with the really nice single & am better with it hahah. Next time out Ill only do 20 rounds of all dao then only with the first shot. Both pulls have some..slack/play/let up before the hammer is cocked. The reset is short but since I shoot at restrictive ranges, never fired too quickly. One range lets me try controlled pairs. I dont practice it often but the 2nd shot is quite fast. A negative for me is the mag release button. If you look at it at an angle, its nearly recessed..very annoying! The one time I attempted a quick mag change, I hung up..couldnt release the mag quick enough. Might sand a bit off the frame in that spot. You can flip the release if you want. I like the grip but the sides arent textured enough when my hands get sweaty. I switched to the slim backstrap a while back and I can get a great hold on it although I think I get too much finger on the trigger
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
They didn't know how to teach the DA trigger stroke at Front Sight

It isn't that hard, I can teach it in about an hour. I really think the SIG 2022 is a great gun at a great price, but I'm not great at waiting either...but then I'm always open to buying a used SIG 226 or 228
I'm not saying it's impossible to master, it's just that some people really don't get it. I'm not a fan because it is one more thing that can throw off my first shot. I have lots of different pistols, including a P226 (actually - it's my wife's) and I just prefer a consistent trigger to a "first shot is like this, and the rest are like this". One less thing to think about.

I will say, that Sig has one of the easiest DA pulls of all my guns. The DA doesn't stack and has a nice consistent pull. I can't say that about my HK, that has a definite change in trigger pull up to the break. But, that's why I don't run it that way. It's got a great SA pull.

To each his own, I was just throwing in my opinion. Some people hate dealing with a safety, I find it natural and don't have any issues with transition to my DAO Glocks or M&P to the 1911 or H&K.

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Old 02-16-2012, 5:26 PM
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My thumbs are tired haha. Oh and I meant the mag release is almost flush with the frame. Take down is stupid simple, I love it. I love the polished feed ramp. My gun had had no problems feeding. Only had 2 malfunctions with factory reloads: One cartridge didnt eject all the way and led to a double feed and the other the cartridge from the last round of a mag just stayed stuck on the slide's face(dunno the proper name). The recoil is pretty nice to me, I dont have to adjust the front sight much at all. Double pull is a heavy one but pulls smoothly. Im assuming mine is 10 or 11lb pull? Feels heavier than the Sigs I dry fired today(standard models). Good value gun as the feedramp is polished, pricepoint and it comes with 3 mags. Cz 75bd was a choice for me too at the time. I plan on getting a target gun from their custom shop sometime

Heres 3 more details(ive been at Kaiser for 2 hours..):

Comparing a Sig's decocker and the FNP, the fnh is easier to drop for me. When I was comparing the sp2022 and fn in shop, I didnt realize I had to slide the decocker further down than I thought. Same today with the P220 &P229 & I couldnt really do it well with one small hand. I do like how the Sig decocks better tho. Its quieter and I like that it looks like it drops the hammer in 2 steps. The slide lock/release is kind of hard for me to actuate. At first I thought the slide would catch my skin doing that but the frame wont let that happen. Its just hard for me to press down on it with my thumb. I used to decock on accident doing that too do I just come over the top quickly and let it slide forward. Umm..I forgot the third

Last edited by Javi; 02-16-2012 at 7:07 PM..
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Old 02-16-2012, 6:04 PM
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As mentioned, if the DA of the DA/SA of a CZ is too annoying, just cock & lock!
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Old 02-16-2012, 6:28 PM
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My CZ SP-01 I just bought (yes, I got very lucky and found one in stock) is as close to perfect (for me) as I've come yet. This gun damn near aims and shoots itself, and I haven't even gotten to practice with it very much yet.

It didn't take long at all for the CZ to replace my Sig as the bedside gun.

I have a Beretta 96 (I think it's the same, grip-wise, yes?) & it is a beautiful gun, but the ergonomics are not nearly as good (for me) and I have to concentrate much harder to shoot it well than I do with my 1911 or SP-01.

I hear rumblings on the interwebz that the CZ situation may be improving soon, but who really knows?

My vote goes to the CZ.
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Old 02-16-2012, 8:13 PM
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Thanks guys, im taking all this into consideration...Im going to go handle a few this weekend and hopefully i won't have to wait too long for what feels good in my hand...
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Old 02-16-2012, 8:49 PM
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P95.

spend the rest on practice ammo
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac7504 View Post
Thanks guys, im taking all this into consideration...Im going to go handle a few this weekend and hopefully i won't have to wait too long for what feels good in my hand...
I'm in OC, and have 92FS's and Rugers you can shoot. Both work best for me as a lefty.

But I'm currently into S&W revolvers...

.
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Old 02-17-2012, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
As mentioned, if the DA of the DA/SA of a CZ is too annoying, just cock & lock!
I agree, but the SAO pistol has a nicer trigger. Less mass in the trigger mechanism.

I will get a CZ someday. The only complaint I have about the gun is the slide is really low profile because of the design. It's a little less to grab on to compared to other things out there. But I have to say, the grip on that gun is a real natural pointer for me.
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Old 02-17-2012, 9:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodemonkey View Post
I agree, but the SAO pistol has a nicer trigger. Less mass in the trigger mechanism.

I will get a CZ someday. The only complaint I have about the gun is the slide is really low profile because of the design. It's a little less to grab on to compared to other things out there. But I have to say, the grip on that gun is a real natural pointer for me.
There is one....tiny....itty bitty part extra in the DA trigger.



The SA pull on a DA/SA gun is nearly identical to that of a SAO only gun, minus the pretravel due to how the trigger is shaped / staged. Beyond that, same trigger system.
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Last edited by zfields; 02-17-2012 at 9:06 AM..
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeusa View Post
I'm in OC, and have 92FS's and Rugers you can shoot. Both work best for me as a lefty.

But I'm currently into S&W revolvers...

.
That will be my plan be, if I don't pick up a 9 soon...


I'm looking into the S&W 686P, iirc, 7 rounds...
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodemonkey View Post
I agree, but the SAO pistol has a nicer trigger. Less mass in the trigger mechanism.

I will get a CZ someday. The only complaint I have about the gun is the slide is really low profile because of the design. It's a little less to grab on to compared to other things out there. But I have to say, the grip on that gun is a real natural pointer for me.
I believe one of the sig's have a SAO option. So essentially, I would have to cock it with a round chambered, if the hammer is lowered, if wont fire...??? Sorry, I only have SA/DA and DAO pistol as of now.


School me please...
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