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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #81  
Old 01-14-2018, 7:06 PM
1859sharps 1859sharps is offline
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Originally Posted by .40Cal View Post
Hey guys,

I am seeing a lot of 308 bolt action rifles for sale here - it got me thinking...

Other than a hunting rifle, why would you own a 308 - especially the Rem SPS type? Those are usually urban/sniper/long distance type builds. It also makes me think that the 308 ammo is much more expensive than the 223, that's why 308 rifles are more out for sale.

I like long distance shooting too, but in the bay area, or CA most ranges won't go past 500 yrds. So, if you're shooting for fun, doesn't the 223 do the job? Nobody is going to use a rifle for Self defense at those ranges (unless SHTF imaginary situation happens). The other benefit of having a 223 is, you can use the same ammo in your ARs. So again, why the 308?
addressing your question directly rather than pushing my personal choice. my opinion for what it's worth....

while 308 is more expensive than 223, people choose it because 308 is a very effective choice. it performs and performs better than most people need. it is a cost effective choice with a wide selection of bullets to choose from. it is highly available (but it's popularity can work against you in a panic buy situation) most of the time.

while there are those who will jump in and say X performs better...most of the time for most people X and it's "better" performance is irrelevant. they just don't shoot in situations/conditions/environments where the "better" is real vs academic.

308 just doesn't stop performing as it always has simply because a "hot" new round is on the market that in some situations does perform better. when you factor in that 308 still performs as it always has, it's cost, availability, accuracy, barrel life etc 308 makes a lot of sense for some people.

but why choose 223 over 308? well there is cost, ammunition is cheaper and like 308 widely available unless a panic buy happens. At distances the average person is going to be shooting, 223 from a target shooting perspective has a lot going for it over 308. there is a reason service rifle shooters switched for punching paper out to 600. hint...when 69 grain then later 77, 80 and 90 grain bullets designed for long distance shooting came on the market the 308 made less sense. cheaper, less recoil, longer barrel life, accuracy.

Contrary to claims in this thread...223 is effective on par or better than 308 in many situations beyond 300 yards. there are exceptions of course see ARbarrels comments.

Anyway...if you aren't interested in hunting and generally just punching paper between 0 and 600 yards ... with a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 barrel twist, 223 can be the right choice for you.

but bottom line people choose 308 or 223 because that is what they think they want.
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  #82  
Old 01-14-2018, 9:30 PM
mattt mattt is offline
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2 years ago a guy won the Calif 1000 yard state title with a 223 at coalinga
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  #83  
Old 01-15-2018, 1:41 AM
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2 years ago a guy won the Calif 1000 yard state title with a 223 at coalinga
Against? In what format? All this stuff Kinda dovetails together.. Stats are stats, but we can present them however; to make or predetermined case.
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  #84  
Old 01-15-2018, 4:04 AM
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Originally Posted by .40Cal View Post
Hey guys,

I am seeing a lot of 308 bolt action rifles for sale here - it got me thinking...

Other than a hunting rifle, why would you own a 308 - especially the Rem SPS type? Those are usually urban/sniper/long distance type builds. It also makes me think that the 308 ammo is much more expensive than the 223, that's why 308 rifles are more out for sale.

I like long distance shooting too, but in the bay area, or CA most ranges won't go past 500 yrds. So, if you're shooting for fun, doesn't the 223 do the job? Nobody is going to use a rifle for Self defense at those ranges (unless SHTF imaginary situation happens). The other benefit of having a 223 is, you can use the same ammo in your ARs. So again, why the 308?
In response to the bold text above, variety and because it's fun.

When I got into shooting .308, ammo was cheap and plentiful. Didn't hurt the pocketbook as much to blast away when a 1k case of ammo was less than $200.

There are advantages to shooting larger caliber than .223 at long distances, plus, it's just more fun to me.

For me that's reason enough.
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  #85  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:20 PM
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He was shooting f/tr against 308,s
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  #86  
Old 01-15-2018, 2:34 PM
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He was shooting f/tr against 308,s


Impressive


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  #87  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:04 PM
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2 years ago a guy won the Calif 1000 yard state title with a 223 at coalinga
80s and 90s gr bullet options make the 223 competitive over 600 yards. But once you pass 600yds ...those "academic" traits of the new "better" options stop being "academic" and become real considerations and probably are truly better in some applications.

one can always do what one wants and there is something to be said for the challenge, and skills developed not going the easy route
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  #88  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:21 PM
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Or OP can simply wait wait for a .224 Valkyrie of his liking and laugh at the .308 guys.
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  #89  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Or OP can simply wait wait for a .224 Valkyrie of his liking and laugh at the .308 guys.
Until it's not the perfect conditions they use to quote 224 V performance. The 224V is an expensive toy that locks you into shooting $1.60+ bullets in a 1:7 barrel.
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  #90  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:17 PM
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Or OP can simply wait wait for a .224 Valkyrie of his liking and laugh at the .308 guys.
Not legal in F T/R where the 308 and 223 are used.
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  #91  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:36 PM
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What does that matter to the OP?
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  #92  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:41 PM
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What does that matter to the OP?
About as much as the .224 Valkyrie.
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  #93  
Old 01-16-2018, 7:34 AM
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Does any one have first had experience with this small bore, lots of power in a precision barrel? .. I've had barrels run out of gas in a surprisingly low round count, for some of the faster offerings with large powder to small projectile ratios.

While the 224v might have a found a good fit for an AR15, is it the best round for all systems or even if you want 2500 precision rounds out of your barrels?

While a good arrow helps, it almost always the person behind the bow. More quality time behind that bow, usually results in better skill sets..

Last edited by diver160651; 01-16-2018 at 7:39 AM..
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  #94  
Old 01-16-2018, 7:43 AM
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I have a 308.. I even have a box of ammo for it. How does it shoot?? Damned if I know.. It's a Herters J9 that's in my collection. Awesome period imported Mauser action custom rifle. Why a 308? 'Cause that's what it was... Back in the late 50's.. early '60's the 308 was the caliber of choice in 1000 yard matches. The barrels were rifled blocks of steel with an action screwed to the back and michro adjustments for windage and elevation, and weighed a ton and didn't move. Once tuned in they were really accurate... :-)
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  #95  
Old 01-16-2018, 7:48 AM
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The guys running 90s out of 223's are beating the Valkyrie in velocity. 22-250,22 br, .223 AI, etc. will all outclass the Valkyrie in a bolt gun. Yes, it's apples to oranges, Factory against hand loads but the numbers are pretty easy to run on JBM.
Diver- I start seeing unexplained shots around 3000 running 90s at 2825,
4000 or so with 80s at 2950.
I get 4 firings with lapua brass with 90's.
I can kill a barrel with 2 boxes of lapua and the 80's.
Running varget in each.
I should add... it's hard to tell when the accuracy drops because of environmental factors and some barrels are just better then others. I would say they lose peak accuracy at half those numbers. Peak accuracy meaning better then I can shoot at 100.

Last edited by eric n; 01-16-2018 at 8:13 AM..
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  #96  
Old 01-16-2018, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx20mm View Post
Until it's not the perfect conditions they use to quote 224 V performance. The 224V is an expensive toy that locks you into shooting $1.60+ bullets in a 1:7 barrel.
I don't know about that, I just got a boat load of gold medal match for a $1.20 a round..... not too bad really.
Should be find for 1000 yards and I can still use my .308 inside that with aplomb.
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  #97  
Old 01-16-2018, 8:50 AM
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Originally Posted by eric n View Post
The guys running 90s out of 223's are beating the Valkyrie in velocity. 22-250,22 br, .223 AI, etc. will all outclass the Valkyrie in a bolt gun. Yes, it's apples to oranges, Factory against hand loads but the numbers are pretty easy to run on JBM.
Diver- I start seeing unexplained shots around 3000 running 90s at 2825,
4000 or so with 80s at 2950.
I get 4 firings with lapua brass with 90's.
I can kill a barrel with 2 boxes of lapua and the 80's.
Thats an great round count!

I imagined much lower. I think that I was shooting with a guy running the 60's around 3,320fps-ish. (I might be remembering wrongly) but remember thinking it would be a barrel burner.. I am not sure were he got the reamer & bolt or if it was hand loaded.

My 7mm is around 3150 with 168 bergers and it eats the barrels

Last edited by diver160651; 01-16-2018 at 8:52 AM..
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  #98  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by xXRifleManXx View Post
I don't know about that, I just got a boat load of gold medal match for a $1.20 a round..... not too bad really.
Should be find for 1000 yards and I can still use my .308 inside that with aplomb.
Where's you find that price?
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  #99  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:05 AM
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Where's you find that price?
Midway... I had a free shipping code.
.224 isn't the end all be all, it is a 1000yard round the .556 isn't though.
I have a stag kit on order, the barrel has an infinite round guaranty.
We'll see what it can do for under $700.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?promotio...24valkyrieammo

Last edited by xXRifleManXx; 01-16-2018 at 9:08 AM..
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  #100  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:28 AM
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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
Does any one have first had experience with this small bore, lots of power in a precision barrel? .. I've had barrels run out of gas in a surprisingly low round count, for some of the faster offerings with large powder to small projectile ratios.

While the 224v might have a found a good fit for an AR15, is it the best round for all systems or even if you want 2500 precision rounds out of your barrels?

While a good arrow helps, it almost always the person behind the bow. More quality time behind that bow, usually results in better skill sets..
Why would the Valkyrie burn barrels? It's not particularly high velocity. It's in the mold of the 6.5CM - moderate velocity, short case, long bullets.
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  #101  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:36 AM
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I would venture to say the shoulder of the case might have a bit to do with it. I don't have enough hands on experience to say for certain. I'm going to put a 1000 rounds through this upper and see how the barrel does, if it's good I'm going to spring for a mag fed bolt gun.
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  #102  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Why would the Valkyrie burn barrels? It's not particularly high velocity. It's in the mold of the 6.5CM - moderate velocity, short case, long bullets.
As posted; the guy I saw shooting one was at 3300FPS+ Also seems a smaller throat at high velocities generally reduces the round count. Now admittedly, I am not talking about a chrome lined barrel or MOA performance.

Mine was just a question--

Last edited by diver160651; 01-16-2018 at 9:46 AM..
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  #103  
Old 01-16-2018, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Why would the Valkyrie burn barrels? It's not particularly high velocity. It's in the mold of the 6.5CM - moderate velocity, short case, long bullets.
Amount of powder burned vs caliber.
Velocity has little to do with it.
Look at the powder capacity of the valkrie compared to the 223.
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  #104  
Old 01-16-2018, 6:07 PM
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I dont shoot my 223 at matches anymore.Dont shoot much anymore.But with the 200 20 x and the 185 juggernuts I would not use my 223 past 600 anymore.Have cleaned at 600 a few times with my savage f/tr 223
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