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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 01-16-2018, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Alum (the stuff in a styptic pencil to treat razor cuts)
Processing water through flocculation and making it drinkable is not a new concept and I've been preaching it for years now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocculation

I can clean cuts/scrapes with alum solution too.
An easy to store/use disinfectant.
I make some concentrate in a cup of warm water and pour onto wet wipes to get really clean (sans soap).
Small amounts used won't harm streams/rivers while camping.
Safer than bleach for everyone involved won't burn skin.
Alum has no after-taste/flavor/smell.
Alum treated water will be very healthy/clean.
*Treating water with alum requires no energy. No fires or sunlight needed.
Been a while, so I’m not up to speed on the latest and greatest on this stuff.

Back in the day in the .MIL, we tested something called Chlor-Floc. The purpose of the flocculant was to clump bigger organics/tannins/algae/etc that weren’t pre-filtered out, but it didn’t kill the bacteria (fecal coliform) by itself. That was what the chlorine (bleach or calcium hypochlorite) was for. It was harder for chorine to kill bacteria in murky water than in clearer water, hence the flocculant, but it was really the chlorine/chlorine residual the killed the bacteria.

Looks like they still have FM 21-10 (http://olive-drab.com/archive/fm21-10.pdf) around, which was what we used as a basis to set up tent cities. Or FEMA camps...

How does alum purify/disinfect?
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  #42  
Old 01-17-2018, 6:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastro View Post
The purpose of the flocculant was to clump bigger organics/tannins/algae/etc that weren’t pre-filtered out, but it didn’t kill the bacteria (fecal coliform) by itself. That was what the chlorine (bleach or calcium hypochlorite) was for. It was harder for chorine to kill bacteria in murky water than in clearer water, hence the flocculant, but it was really the chlorine/chlorine residual the killed the bacteria.

How does alum purify/disinfect?
You're correct. It doesn't disinfect. It's just a flocculant, so it will help bind and settle out suspended solids from water, which is useful in purification, but it's not a substitute for disinfection. That's why I like cheap gravity filters using GAC or a UF filter. Alum would be a good first step if the water has high TSS, to avoid clogging your filters, but likely not needed unless you're pulling muddy surface water.

I should note that bacteria and viruses found attached to suspended solids can be trapped in the flocc and settle out, but that's not the same as destroying these constituents. And not enough will likely be removed to meet acceptable water quality through the use of a flocculant alone.

Last edited by TheReluctantCraftstronaut; 01-17-2018 at 6:46 AM.. Reason: Added clarification
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  #43  
Old 01-17-2018, 9:09 AM
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No thread jack intended here, but...
More on ALUM
3rd world study as an example:
http://archive.unu.edu/unupress/food...e/8F062E08.htm
My origional source was a missionary that worked in Bangladesh for 10 years.
They used alum all of the time for treating water.
Mixed it in, set it and forget it.
She also said she used a large copper caldron for storage and just added treated water to it. Copper prevented bacterial/algae growth.

Sent using a long string and 2 Dixie cups
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  #44  
Old 01-17-2018, 9:25 AM
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in a bind there is a way to filter any water to make it safe, we are talking about your local creek or percolation pond water.
Quote:
deionization filters cartridge will help reduce numerous contaminants from the water in your home, including nitrates, scale, heavy metals, some radioactive isotopes and virtually all Total Dissolve Solids (TDS)
the filter cartridge runs about $54 and to prolong it's life run it in series with a good mechanical filter like a bunch of clean t-shirts, activated carbon (super cheap online) and the deionization filter.
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  #45  
Old 01-22-2018, 3:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
No thread jack intended here, but...
More on ALUM
3rd world study as an example:
http://archive.unu.edu/unupress/food...e/8F062E08.htm
My origional source was a missionary that worked in Bangladesh for 10 years.
They used alum all of the time for treating water.
Mixed it in, set it and forget it.
She also said she used a large copper caldron for storage and just added treated water to it. Copper prevented bacterial/algae growth.

Sent using a long string and 2 Dixie cups
I do not disagree that the use of Alum is helpful and effective for water treatment, but it is still not classified strictly as a disinfectant. And drinking the settled flocc has health risks.

In this test, the reason they measure less and less microbial presence in the samples is due to flocc formation attracting microorganisms and then settling out. So imagine a cup of water with 100 bugs in it. Add alum and a bunch of flocc forms from the impurities sticking to the alum. 60% of the bugs go live in these flocc formations and sink to the bottom of the glass. Some will die, some will not, some don't settle out at all.

You take a straw and sample water from the glass... unless the sample is taken from the bottom, you will see a decrease in microorganisms because 60% are now sunk to the bottom in a thin layer. But they are all still there. The alum does not directly destroy the organism like a disinfectant would (like chlorine or UV).

Using Alum should still be paired with filtration to remove any settled flocc and phosphorus from the water. And at that point, I'd rather be using carbon filters and membrane filtration for simplicity and product availability. Most people just want to pour water into a container of some kind, then get safe water out of the other end.
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2018, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
I know there’s info scattered all over this and other forums, but I’d love to keep this simple. What are the top 5-10 items you think are critical to have AT HOME for earthquake preparedness, IN ORDER of necessity/preference? No need to discuss “quantity” as that can all be debated, but I’m more interested in what items are critical.

I’ll start under the assumption that electricity and natural gas delivery is out for a few weeks:

(1) Water - cleaned and prepared for long term storage + filter
(2) First Aid Kit - including any medications
(3) Propane - for cooking on the bbq/stove, boiling water
(4) Food - basics like beans/rice/canned/mre’s will work for a few weeks
(5) Blankets/Sleeping Bags
(6) Electricity - batteries, small solar charger, generator
(7) Cash - it’s king, and may be necessary to buy supplies
(8) Flashlights - with extra batteries or even better, rechargeable
(9) Gas - for car/motorcycle, generator, possibly other uses
(10) Tools - to help clean-up, repair, etc., including duct tape!

Okay, what am I missing? What’s your list?
U r missing guns and ammunition, up there with food and water
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2018, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Go onto google maps- satellite view and locate all swimming pools within 1 mile of
1: your home
2: your office

Print out the maps with walking or bicycle directions.
Have a way to treat pool water into drinking water.


If a quake is big, I’m going to refill off pools on day 1.

It’s not possible to store enough water in an urban environment to make it a few weeks for the average family.

Better hope you beat the Fire Department there. It is in their contingency plan to use pool water to fight fires.

I have a stash of 4x4’s for cribbing, boots, gloves, pry bars, chainsaws, and synthetic fuel. Me and a couple neighbors will be our own self rescue. EMS will be focused on high occupancy targets like schools and hospitals. Anyone who thinks EMS is coming is gravely mistaken.
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  #48  
Old 02-06-2018, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
I know there’s info scattered all over this and other forums, but I’d love to keep this simple. What are the top 5-10 items you think are critical to have AT HOME for earthquake preparedness, IN ORDER of necessity/preference? No need to discuss “quantity” as that can all be debated, but I’m more interested in what items are critical.

I’ll start under the assumption that electricity and natural gas delivery is out for a few weeks:

(1) Water - cleaned and prepared for long term storage + filter
(2) First Aid Kit - including any medications
(3) Propane - for cooking on the bbq/stove, boiling water
(4) Food - basics like beans/rice/canned/mre’s will work for a few weeks
(5) Blankets/Sleeping Bags
(6) Electricity - batteries, small solar charger, generator
(7) Cash - it’s king, and may be necessary to buy supplies
(8) Flashlights - with extra batteries or even better, rechargeable
(9) Gas - for car/motorcycle, generator, possibly other uses
(10) Tools - to help clean-up, repair, etc., including duct tape!

Okay, what am I missing? What’s your list?
Only thing is can see that your missing is a plan. Yes those are all good things to have but a thorough plan should be #1.

Things to think about:

Do you know how to use your preps. I have met people who bought and emergency radio and without opening it tossed it into the "emergency bag" Also If your going to use firearms to defend your home make sure everyone is trained on how to use them.

Don't store everything in the same area. ok so you store your preps in the garage, and your garage collapses in the quake. what do you do then. yes i have bulk of my water storage in garage but i have a rain barrel in the back yard and several water bricks in the closet and a water bob in every bathroom.

Oh and one thing about cash, make sure you include small bills cause more likely than not stores arent going to have change for $50 or $100 bills
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  #49  
Old 02-07-2018, 9:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Daishi;21161668]On a similar note, keeping some shoes under the bed beats stepping on broken glass in the dark if the earthquake is in the middle of the night.

Yes, next to the bed are always slip-on shoes with rubber on bottom, several various flashlights (I buy a years supply of extra batteries during Xmas sales), a pistol and extra magazine + plus my pants with wallet/keys etc. Leaving your house to spend some time in your car is difficult without keys...
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  #50  
Old 02-11-2018, 8:45 PM
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I would add a portable power inverter (the kind you plug into the cigarette lighter in the car) and a portable tv. Unfortunately if you have kids, eventually they will get bored, and a television of any kind besides keeping your family informed, will also keep them entertained and distracted from any major earthquake coverage.
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  #51  
Old 02-11-2018, 9:35 PM
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If you live in a typical L.A. area community with fairly close density and the really big one hits, there's a good (bad) chance that the area you live in will burn. Be ready to leave because once the burning starts it will be a fire storm.
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  #52  
Old 02-12-2018, 1:37 AM
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Been through the 1989 Bay Area earthquake. Frankly, most of the places were just lost electricity for a couple days, people and neighbors were looking after each other, not nearly as scary as those movies suggested.

Yet.... Avoid downtown, bad neighborhood, busy streets/freeways. Avoid going out after dark. Avoid crowds. Avoid troubles.

And, not in order, here are 10 things from my experience.

1. Gas. Expect hours traffic jam just to go home or work.
2. Cash. It is still King. ATM/POS won’t work without electricity.
3. Plenty of water - drink, cook, shower. Water cooler bottles came handy.
4. Phone access. Cell phone service was unstable (at least in 1989 quake.)
5. Flashlight/candles. More the better.
6. Batteries. All sizes, and make sure they are good.
7. Medicines. Very important especially for people with existing conditions.
8. A grill (with enough fuel) - for cooking, broiling water, etc.
9. A dedicated out-of-town family contact, as a hub for family communication.
10. An AM/FM battery/handcrank/solar radio. Very useful for news/updates.

Oh,
11. Baby formula and pet food are also important, if applicable.

Yes, guns and ammos didn’t make it to the Top 10. Truth is if stay away from trouble area and stay inside after dark, a small concealed handgun should be enough for most folks. Or like the old saying... enough to fight your way to your long guns.

Also, group the neighbors to strength the safety of the community. In 1989, at our street, we all opened our garage doors, we all sat outside at night, and chatted (no electricity anyway.) Not a single outsider vehicle ever entered our street. Neighborhood Strong is the key.

Just on top of my head, from my experience. I will edit if I can think of more.
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  #53  
Old 02-19-2018, 12:33 PM
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Having a lot of stuff in preparation of a natural or manmade disaster is great, but worthless if everyone in your house hasn't learned to use it, knows what you have or where it is located. I was out of town during the Thomas fire and had to talk my wife through where everything was located, how to operate the generators, what got plugged in and where, etc. Power, internet and phones were down and cell phone service was disrupted right when I was trying to explain how to use the larger tri-fuel generator that powers the important household circuits. Luckily she remembered that we have a pair of satellite phones and I always have one in my truck, both are charges and we have spare charged batteries. It took us hours to accomplish what would have taken me about 15 minutes if I had been home. It was a good practice run that showed us we are not nearly as prepared as we thought if I am not around.
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  #54  
Old 03-06-2018, 6:52 AM
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For EQ country:

A quality folding shovel, 2 or more quality crowbars/pry bars, quality hacksaw and several spare blades for moving/clearing debris and possibly rescue needs. Dust masks, leather gloves and goggles too.
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  #55  
Old 03-06-2018, 6:55 AM
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supplies for bartering

if things are really bad, money might be worth much.
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  #56  
Old 03-06-2018, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axhoaxho View Post
Been through the 1989 Bay Area earthquake. Frankly, most of the places were just lost electricity for a couple days, people and neighbors were looking after each other, not nearly as scary as those movies suggested.
I was also in SF during the 1989 quake but that was really a small event compared to what the Big One will be. Most people were helpful and looking out for others but I suspect that things will be different in a larger event when food/water/supplies start running out.
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  #57  
Old 03-06-2018, 10:11 AM
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$500 and a shotgun.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:58 AM
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When I was in elementary school we would practice earthquake drills all the time. We would get under our desks and wait for the shaking to stop (or what they determined was a suitable time frame). So what your list is lacking is an elementary sized metal desk. Oh yeah!! The old metal frame with real wood top that hinged open. You guys know what I'm talking about.
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  #59  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by luckylogger6 View Post
propane I pay 1.40-2.00/ gallon I think I should be cheaper to run
I get propane for $2.50 at Tractor Supply, where are you finding it for $2 bucks and under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by axhoaxho View Post
4. Phone access. Cell phone service was unstable (at least in 1989 quake.)
I had to laugh at this one. Who here had a cell phone in 1989?

Last edited by 67Cuda; 03-13-2018 at 11:21 AM..
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  #60  
Old 03-15-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
(1) Water - cleaned and prepared for long term storage + filter
(2) First Aid Kit - including any medications
(3) Propane - for cooking on the bbq/stove, boiling water
(4) Food - basics like beans/rice/canned/mre’s will work for a few weeks
(5) Blankets/Sleeping Bags
(6) Electricity - batteries, small solar charger, generator
(7) Cash - it’s king, and may be necessary to buy supplies
(8) Flashlights - with extra batteries or even better, rechargeable
(9) Gas - for car/motorcycle, generator, possibly other uses
(10) Tools - to help clean-up, repair, etc., including duct tape!
Here is my list in priority order:
(1) Plan (how to get home, what to do when home, decision trees, stay and play or evacuate, etc.
(2) Water (stored drinking water, filtration, mobile storage - so you can walk to water distribution points and bring a decent quantity home)
(3) Shelter (from the heat, sun, rain or cold)
(4) Food (shelf stable, edible, not over loaded with carbs or salt, variety, preferably something that does not require much cooking or preparations)
(5) First Aid (knowledge, supplies, medication)
(6) Communications (receive reports on efforts, food/water distribution points, restrictions, etc.)
(7) Tools (to dig out, build/improve on shelter, make repairs, etc.)
(8) Defense (to protect your friends and families from scavengers and those looking to take advantage of the event)
(9) Morale Booster (You maybe Mr/Mrs Billy-Bob Badazz the first few hours but it will eventually get to you, and your family. You need time to relax, enjoy something special or luxurious and find your center again)
(10) Documents (Birth certificates, ID, SSN Cards, Banking and bill account number and contacts, Insurance information to include accounts, coverage and contact numbers)

This is not a complete list but you set the spec of the conversation at top 10
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
I get propane for $2.50 at Tractor Supply, where are you finding it for $2 bucks and under?

Ferrel Gas - 2 weeks ago it was 2.01/gal delivered and no sales tax but wholsale prices have gone up since then. Minimum delivery is 120 gallons. last summer I filled both my tanks at 1.39/gal

Here is a link to watch wholesale prices:

http://www.dgs.ca.gov/pd/Programs/Le...elPosting.aspx
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  #62  
Old 03-15-2018, 3:46 PM
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https://www.bioliteenergy.com/products/campstove-2
https://www.bioliteenergy.com/products/basecamp

not sure if anyone mentioned this yet.

this camp stove can covert that heat energy of a fire into electricity to charge items.

great for 24/7 charging. use the came stove at night, then solar panels in day.

too bad they don't attach the charging capabilities to their new firepit unit that is coming out. that can be way more useful since it is a bigger fire load to charge up from.
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  #63  
Old 03-16-2018, 6:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
https://www.bioliteenergy.com/products/campstove-2
https://www.bioliteenergy.com/products/basecamp

not sure if anyone mentioned this yet.

this camp stove can covert that heat energy of a fire into electricity to charge items.

great for 24/7 charging. use the came stove at night, then solar panels in day.

too bad they don't attach the charging capabilities to their new firepit unit that is coming out. that can be way more useful since it is a bigger fire load to charge up from.
You can make it your self. Google Peltier effect. You can buy the Peltier plates on ebay and use a computer heat sink for the "cool" side
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Old 03-16-2018, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
I get propane for $2.50 at Tractor Supply, where are you finding it for $2 bucks and under?



I had to laugh at this one. Who here had a cell phone in 1989?
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Old 03-16-2018, 1:17 PM
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I had one and it was $2 per minute for calls. Only got it for use in case of an emergency where any amount per minute would have been worth it. As it turns out I never had to used it which was a good thing in my mind.
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Old 03-21-2018, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
If you live in a typical L.A. area community with fairly close density and the really big one hits, there's a good (bad) chance that the area you live in will burn. Be ready to leave because once the burning starts it will be a fire storm.
Good advice. No fire storm here though. There's no brush within at least fifty feet of houses, there are no shake roofs, and the other firefighter on the street lives next door.
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:15 PM
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My wife and I are FEMA certified instructors in the C.E.R.T. curriculum; we teach the first CERT module: disaster preparedness. I did not read all of the posts, but should mention having similar item lists fulfilled in all of our vehicles for daily commuting, regardless of where we live. It's usually a long walk back home. BTW, receiving free C.E.R.T. training is as close as your local fire station. They can tell you when the next class begins.

California's restrictive and burdensome bureaucracy regarding firearms notwithstanding, we need to constantly remind ourselves just how beautiful our natural, statewide resources really are. No wildfire, earthquake or other natural occurring phenomenon have forced us away from the place we call home...but there is a price to pay for living where we do.

We are a very mobile society. There can be no real discussion of disaster preparedness until there is an understanding of disaster awareness, being aware of what's possible is the first step to being prepared. What are the areas of concern where I live, travel and vacation?

Of course, if your family is going camping, you should have all of the necessary food stuffs, water, medical, etc. Fill your gas tank when it reaches 1/2 full; first responders do. Some women wear heels to work; we've encountered many who have never thought of having a pair of comfortable shoes in their vehicles.

Have a second pair of prescription eye [sun] glasses, meds, change of clothes, comfortable shoes, hat in your vehicle. Cal-Fire has recently updated their 3 day food and water carry to 7 days, per person per day.

Wife and I each have a large foot locker with canned foods, water, can opener and even a field suture kit in our vehicles. Campers might also consider a pack of "Quik-Clot" when you are far removed from immediate medical care. Snake bite kits are useless; buy a good tourniquet instead. $10 on Amazon.

Think about becoming a "ham radio operator". The "tech" FCC license is quite fundamental and grants you a license to purchase an 60 or 70 watt transceiver for your vehicle [or a H/T for pedestrian mobile ops] so you can radio for help in the outback on 146.520 MHz for help, or utilize a local, mountaintop repeater.

Remember, you are the singularly most important person in someone's life. You can't help anyone if incapacitated. You're the top priority...the "I.C.", in an emergency/disaster situation.

I'm off to the range. Hope this has been helpful in some way
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Old 04-15-2018, 2:24 PM
shojivic shojivic is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Tagged. Good ideas here...
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