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Long Distance Shooting Discuss tools, techniques, tips and theories of long distance shooting

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  #1  
Old 03-17-2018, 4:31 PM
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Default Putting together a 24 inch AR barrel with manual AR Bolt...

I came across a 24" Stainless AR barrel. It already has a gas block hole. I plan on sealing the gas block hole with a JP front sight base. I want this upper to be strictly a manually AR bolt, no DI or piston driven. I like shooting 80gr Sierra Match Kings or 80gr Noslers.

I will be using this front sight base. It is strictly a block, no gas port machining on it.

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSB-2

Has anyone used these before? Do you think it will work to block the gas port? I may use some green Lock-Tite to make sure it seals.

I will post pics once I'm done with it.

I just wanted a long range AR rifle in .223 or 5.56 with heavy bullets.

My goal is to put together a 1000 yard 5.56 gun. Just because I want to try. I thought about a 26" barrel, but they were pricey, and a long waiting period to have made. I may move to a 26" barrel later.

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Last edited by McGuiver; 03-17-2018 at 5:40 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2018, 10:50 PM
scotty99 scotty99 is offline
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Tried this with an adjustable gas block turned off. I was surprised at how difficult it was to eject the empty case with no help from the gas system. I decided it was not a workable long term solution for me. I have since discovered that this barrel’s chamber is right at minimum spec, so that may have made this particularly tough.


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  #3  
Old 03-18-2018, 3:21 AM
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A side charging setup would be ideal for this IMO.

If I were going to stay in CA long term, i'd be looking at doing the same thing as OP.

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Old 03-18-2018, 4:12 AM
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Well a 24" barrel is a good place to start but i really feel you need to push it out to at least 28" run as slow a powder you can to develop the velocity. and I'd get it in a fast enough twist to stabilize a 95 gr SMK
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2018, 8:15 AM
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Default Putting together a 24 inch AR barrel with manual AR Bolt...

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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Well a 24" barrel is a good place to start but i really feel you need to push it out to at least 28" run as slow a powder you can to develop the velocity. and I'd get it in a fast enough twist to stabilize a 95 gr SMK


I was even looking at close to 30" with a 1:6 twist to stabilize a 90+gr bullet, but that was a long lead time for a custom barrel. I will test this first. I have not tried the 95gr SMK. I have tried the 90gr and could not get them to stabilize in my slower twist barrels (1:8). I know Sierra recommends a 1:6.5 twist rate.

I will be feeding these one at a time with a Bob-Sled in the magwell. OAL of the cartridge will be to long for a magazine. These will be fed thru the ejection port.

http://originalbobsled.com/SemiAutoSleds.aspx

And a BAD lever for the bolt release.

https://www.magpul.com/products/bad-...device-ar15-m4

Thanks KCSTOTT, I will be looking for a longer barrel sometime in the future. What barrel blank makers do you recommend?

I usually shoot 80gr SMK.


I do like the B.C. of the new 95gr bullet.






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Last edited by McGuiver; 03-18-2018 at 8:39 AM..
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2018, 1:01 PM
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I recommend One barrel maker. Shilen, I only shop elsewhere when they don't make what I need. But you need to understand I spin my own barrels

Keep in mind I cn spin a barrel for you. But I won't be cheep
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That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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Old 03-18-2018, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuiver View Post
I was even looking at close to 30" with a 1:6 twist to stabilize a 90+gr bullet, but that was a long lead time for a custom barrel. I will test this first. I have not tried the 95gr SMK. I have tried the 90gr and could not get them to stabilize in my slower twist barrels (1:8). I know Sierra recommends a 1:6.5 twist rate.
1:6.5 is probably correct for a 20" barrel, but you get more velocity out of a 28" barrel and can probably go 1:7 or even slower.
Run your own calculations on SG at your expected 20" and 28" barrel lengths and match the 1:6.5 20" barrel SG to the velocity of the 28" barrel to figure out what twist you really need.
There is no good to come from having more twist than you actually need.
Make sure to account for your weather conditions too because the twist rate you need in colorado is quite different from the twist rate you need at pendelton.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2018, 3:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
1:6.5 is probably correct for a 20" barrel, but you get more velocity out of a 28" barrel and can probably go 1:7 or even slower.
Run your own calculations on SG at your expected 20" and 28" barrel lengths and match the 1:6.5 20" barrel SG to the velocity of the 28" barrel to figure out what twist you really need.
There is no good to come from having more twist than you actually need.
Make sure to account for your weather conditions too because the twist rate you need in colorado is quite different from the twist rate you need at pendelton.
Which is why you over stabilize a bullet, that way when you do travel to places that require a given twist you barrel is already fast enough.

I for one don't see any benchrest guys that travel from one end of the country to the other swapping barrels to get an optimum twist rate.
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That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2018, 8:20 AM
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I for one don't see any benchrest guys that travel from one end of the country to the other swapping barrels to get an optimum twist rate.
You would not notice.
The barrels all look the same on the outside.
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2018, 8:40 AM
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Sea level is a lot different than 10,000 feet. My 5.56 tends to give up past 600 yards. It's too small and light to fight the wind. 75 grain is the heaviest I use to still cycle semi-auto.

Past that it's the 6.5 Grendel. That is a superior long range round compared to 5.56.
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2018, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You would not notice.
The barrels all look the same on the outside.
Ah yeah no kidding,

I mean there is no chatter on the boards about swapping barrels to suit a venue. the Benchrest guys I talk to don't swap barrels. they are far to fussy to be screwing with a rifle that in depth before a match.
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That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2018, 2:37 PM
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If your goal is 1000 yards with a .223 bullet, why not go with a cartridge that is designed for it? Either the 224 Valkiry or 22 Grendal would be my choice. Both of those rounds are designed to push the 80-95 grain 22 bullets you want to shoot.
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Old 03-19-2018, 4:34 PM
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Default Putting together a 24 inch AR barrel with manual AR Bolt...

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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
If your goal is 1000 yards with a .223 bullet, why not go with a cartridge that is designed for it? Either the 224 Valkiry or 22 Grendal would be my choice. Both of those rounds are designed to push the 80-95 grain 22 bullets you want to shoot.


I will be getting a 224 Valkyrie barrel soon. Just waiting for at least a 24" barrel in that too. I have shot 80gr bullets in 5.56 brass before with a 16" and 20" barrel. In a 16" barrel they will easily carry 600 yards. I'm doing 1k in .223 with a 80gr bullet for the challenge. I'm trying to perfect my shooting.

Shooting heavy bullets gets addictive. Have you tried shoot 80gr bullets in a .223 / 5.56 rifle?

If I go by Sierra load data, I can hope to get about 2800 FPS from a 24" barrel. That is not even pushing it to the max.





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Last edited by McGuiver; 03-19-2018 at 4:45 PM..
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2018, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuiver View Post
Have you tried shoot 80gr bullets in a .223 / 5.56 rifle?
Folks who shoot Service Rifle/NRA highpower rifle use the long/heavy 223 bullets (75 VLD, 80, 82, and 90 grains) out of a 20" barrel (A2 or A4) out to 600 yards or 1k.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2018, 4:52 PM
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Default Putting together a 24 inch AR barrel with manual AR Bolt...

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Originally Posted by OpenSightsOnly View Post
Folks who shoot Service Rifle/NRA highpower rifle use the long/heavy 223 bullets (75 VLD, 80, 82, and 90 grains) out of a 20" barrel (A2 or A4) out to 600 yards or 1k.


I know. I shoot 80gr Sierra bullets out to 600 yards with open sights. That is with a 16” barrel. I'm only hitting steel at that distance. Usually a 18" steel plate. I want to push it to 1K with a 18" steel plate with glass optic of course.

With a 24" barrel, shooting 80gr bullets at 2800 FPS, and a 300 yard zero... bullet drop will be 321.8" @ 1k yards. That is 26.81 feet of bullet drop.

Bullet should still be going 1234FPS at 1K yards. It should not drop to subsonic until 1200 to 1250 yards..


Here is the bullet drop data for a 80gr Sierra at 2800 FPS and a 300 yard zero.



Being above 1050 FPS I still expect good bullet stability. That is why I'm putting together a dedicated upper with a manual bolt and no gas system.



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Last edited by McGuiver; 03-19-2018 at 5:04 PM..
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
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I mean there is no chatter on the boards about swapping barrels to suit a venue. the Benchrest guys I talk to don't swap barrels. they are far to fussy to be screwing with a rifle that in depth before a match.
Interesting.
I have watched benchrest guys swapping barrels at the range during a match.
Walk around the parking lot at any benchrest match and you will find more than a couple barrel vises mounted to hitches on the trucks.
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