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  #121  
Old 10-14-2013, 10:45 PM
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Every time I drive back from range I stop at border checkpoint. They never ask about guns. But if they did I'd tell truth. And I always thank them for their service to this great country.
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  #122  
Old 10-15-2013, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Yeah, I bet it was that kind of "street sense" that led both federal(ATF) and county LE to conclude that a legal firearm I owned was a ".30 bmg machine gun". A legal firearm that had an ATF approval letter. A letter that was IN the case with said firearm (under the foam). Which they never found. Brilliant police work that was, probably using their "street senses" rather than their eyeballs.

And no, I'm not anti-cop, I was a cop for several years. And I knew some cops that would usually let petty stuff slide, and some that never would. I'd never suggest that someone take that gamble. Even if you think you have done nothing wrong, you don't know every law on the books. No one does, there are thousands of them. And you certainly don't know what every cop and DA's interpretation of those laws is going to be. So if you get pulled over, shut up as best you can. Don't like this advice? More work for lawyers, you better get one on retainer.


A cop who considers asserting ones rights to be "game playing" is a danger to a free society. He's not street smart or savvy, he's just a junior tyrant and a menace to society.



I had a cop outright tell me, in a very confrontational tone, "if you're not hiding anything then you don't have anything to worry about, do you?" when I asserted my 4th amendment rights and told him that I don't consent to searches. Then he said he would go get a warrant and hold me even if it took 4-5 hours to get the warrant and we did a dance back and forth. He got really upset when I said to him, "say I tell you what, you could be a pedophile with loads of child porn on your computer, but maybe you're not, surely you don't have anything to hide, do you? What time this evening can I come over to inspect your computer, you don't have anything to hide do you?"

He had already told me he was concerned that I had weapons, explosives, and/or narcotics in my vehicle, even though their dog failed to indicate on anything.

Last edited by KABA556; 10-15-2013 at 7:56 AM..
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  #123  
Old 10-15-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Yeah, I bet it was that kind of "street sense" that led both federal(ATF) and county LE to conclude that a legal firearm I owned was a ".30 bmg machine gun". A legal firearm that had an ATF approval letter. A letter that was IN the case with said firearm (under the foam). Which they never found. Brilliant police work that was, probably using their "street senses" rather than their eyeballs.

And no, I'm not anti-cop, I was a cop for several years. And I knew some cops that would usually let petty stuff slide, and some that never would. I'd never suggest that someone take that gamble. Even if you think you have done nothing wrong, you don't know every law on the books. No one does, there are thousands of them. And you certainly don't know what every cop and DA's interpretation of those laws is going to be. So if you get pulled over, shut up as best you can. Don't like this advice? More work for lawyers, you better get one on retainer.
Unfortunately no one could possibly know every law, yet only the citizen is held to the standard of knowing every law and ALL of its interpretations. Even a DA can file false charges with weeks to consider them-and the only punishment is that they may have to "drop" those charges and "lose face". You will have to spend thousands of dollars and hours of your freedom in an attempt to fight the charges-and the best that you can hope for is the charges getting dropped and your time and money pissed down a rat hole.

If there's nothing that you are doing that gives probable cause, don't talk to officer outside of the scope of the stop. IF there is, DON'T talk to the officer at all-lawyer up.
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  #124  
Old 10-15-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KABA556
Then he said he would go get a warrant and hold me even if it took 4-5 hours to get the warrant
At this point you should've said "Officer, am I being detained or am I free to go?"

Cops cannot illegally detain you. And if they still do read below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj
You will have to spend thousands of dollars and hours of your freedom in an attempt to fight the charges-and the best that you can hope for is the charges getting dropped and your time and money pissed down a rat hole.
If you have good reason to know that the search was unconstitutional and have illegally detained you, you can also contact the ACLU to see if they can fight for your behalf. Many illegal searches and arrests were overturned by the ACLU.

If the NRA is to gun rights, the ACLU is to civil rights. Having the number to your local ACLU in your wallet as well as a good 2A lawyer is a good idea if you are detained illegally and when you need to make that one phone call. I have both of them in my wallet at all times.

If anything, joining the ACLU is good insurance. Furthermore, cops and DAs stray away from prosecuting anyone carrying an ACLU membership card because they'd rather be going after those who are ignorant, not someone who has the entire ACLU behind them. If anything, $35 a year isn't bad for having access to the best civil defense lawyers and the largest civil rights lobby in the nation to represent you, right?
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Last edited by CZ man in LA; 10-15-2013 at 12:13 PM..
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  #125  
Old 10-15-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ man in LA View Post
At this point you should've said "Officer, am I being detained or am I free to go?"

Cops cannot illegally detain you. And if they still do read below.




One cop told me I was not being detained but my vehicle was being detained and that I could walk home, another cop [higher ranking] told me that I was not free to leave. I was hesitant to do anything that might be seen as leaving the scene because one had told me I was not to leave and I didn't want to get shot in the back walking away, tazed, or have a dog set loose on me.


The ranking officer on the scene insisted on being able to speak with my lawyer after I called my lawyer and my lawyer wanted to speak with him, so that worked out well. [On speakerphone] my lawyer asked the man what his probable cause to hold me, hold my vehicle, and insist on searching my vehicle was... The officer's response, "your client has an active concealed carry permit and has written articles reviewing firearms."

When asked if he had any specific reason to suspect that I had explosives, narcotics, or illegal firearms, the only reply the cop could give was, "he has an active concealed carry permit."


The situation took about 2-3 hours to resolve and by resolve I mean ending the encounter and going home. The situation is not resolved in the sense that everything is over/done and all claims are waived pursuant to a settlement agreement. No agreement has been signed as of yet.
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  #126  
Old 10-15-2013, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KABA556 View Post
One cop told me I was not being detained but my vehicle was being detained and that I could walk home, another cop [higher ranking] told me that I was not free to leave. I was hesitant to do anything that might be seen as leaving the scene because one had told me I was not to leave and I didn't want to get shot in the back walking away, tazed, or have a dog set loose on me.
And this is why I have this in my car.
http://www.amazon.com/HZZ-2-7-inch-S...shboard+camera
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  #127  
Old 10-15-2013, 1:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ man in LA View Post
And this is why I have this in my car.
http://www.amazon.com/HZZ-2-7-inch-S...shboard+camera


I started running a digital audio pocket recorder a few years ago after some police spoke to me in a manner that if I had a record of, I would have been able to end their careers.

Think along the lines of how that officer in Canton dealt with that concealed carry citizen...

If there wasn't a recording, few people would believe a cop would act like that...



I recently began running a dash-cam in my vehicle, although it is tied to the power of the vehicle, it has limited battery ability. It comes on when the vehicle is on and it shuts off shortly after the vehicle is off unless you switch it to remain on battery mode [manually]. I am going to get a model that has a longer battery life and will remain on regardless of whether the vehicle is on or off.
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  #128  
Old 10-15-2013, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KABA556 View Post
If there wasn't a recording, few people would believe a cop would act like that...
Everyone has some video/sound recording device that is constantly hooked up to the internet these days from smartphones, tablets, to soon, Google Glass. Instantaneous uploads of corrupt LE conduct is all over Youtube, it's nothing new. If anything, thanks to smartphones and Youtube, growing discontent with LE who step above their authority is being scrutinized all over the the world (corrupt officers isn't just an US thing, it's happens in Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KABA556 View Post
I recently began running a dash-cam in my vehicle, although it is tied to the power of the vehicle, it has limited battery ability. It comes on when the vehicle is on and it shuts off shortly after the vehicle is off unless you switch it to remain on battery mode [manually]. I am going to get a model that has a longer battery life and will remain on regardless of whether the vehicle is on or off.
Outside the US, Garmin (who we know as car-navigation makers) sell these add on dash cam extensions or sell them as a GPS+dash cam package:
http://www.garmin.com.sg/m/buzz/sg/m...ingRecord.html
http://www.garmin.co.jp/products/ontheroad/nuvi2582r/
http://www.garmin.com.tw/products/GDR/gdr35/
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/shop...rod112280.html

It allows you to add a Garmin dash cam extension onto to your car's GPS through the USB socket, run special software to note your GPS location, speed, superimposed over the video, all running on the same DC power as your GPS.

Strange why this is not sold here in the US when Garmin is an US company. This would do so well when it comes to not just recording corrupt officers for use in court, but also would help a lot in car accident insurance claims, rental cars, taxis, EMTs, fire fighting vehicles, etc.

I wrote a letter to Garmin a year ago about this, but so far they've yet to respond to me. I think the more American consumers write to Garmin they want this add on extension or GPS+dash cam package deal for their in-car Garmin GPS devices, they might consider selling it here.
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Toyotomi Hideyoshi's Sword Hunt Edict of 1588, establishing the class division between the peasants (commoners) and the samurai (the governing elites).


Last edited by CZ man in LA; 10-15-2013 at 4:03 PM..
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  #129  
Old 10-15-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KABA556 View Post
The officer's response, "your client has an active concealed carry permit and has written articles reviewing firearms."
Mind if I ask how he reached the conclusion of the second part of his statement?
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  #130  
Old 10-16-2013, 4:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pastureofmuppets View Post
Mind if I ask how he reached the conclusion of the second part of his statement?


He had read articles I had written. It really is a small world.
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  #131  
Old 03-05-2014, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Tincon,

I think you might be going off a little "half-cocked" with your assertion the loaded firearm check statute (Penal Code section 25850(b), formerly 12031(e)) has never been challenged on Constitutional grounds.

Please refer to People v. DeLong (11 Cal. App. 3d 786)
Actually, 12031(e)/25850(b) is being challenged in Richards v. Harris on 4th Amendment grounds.
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  #132  
Old 03-23-2014, 7:35 PM
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Years ago I was pulled over by CHP. The first question asked was "do you have any guns in the car". I said yes. I spent the next 2 hours on the side of the road will the LEO ran every single gun in the car. After he found that all my weapons where A OK he gave me a speeding ticket.
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  #133  
Old 03-23-2014, 7:42 PM
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Most DIY Home security systems kick the voltage down to 12v as do many home / 120v electronics. You can mount 4-8 cameras with audio and hours of recording hard drive space for under $500 if i'm right about the voltage.

I havent done this myself, but often considered the same thing, especially for accident type investigations in addition to search/seizure type stuff like this.

Maybe someone with electronics knowledge can chime in - 12v DC should work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GillaFunk View Post
I've been looking for some kind of camera I can mount in my car that records visual as well as audio via a microphone attached near my window to address situations just like this

Still looking
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  #134  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:45 AM
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Do what ya'll want, but it's been my experience that I get the treatment I give.

Difficult responses gets difficult responses in return.
Cooperative responses gets cooperative responses in return.

There is a time and a place to disobey, or buck authority. Everywhere, All the time is not the time and place. In my opinion, of course.
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  #135  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:27 AM
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I think everybody needs to remember that driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
If you want to be a tough guy & play word games with a cop, that's your call. Just be sure you've sized the cop up via his demeanor before you proceed. How would you handle the situation if you were in his shoes? Cops are just people too.
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  #136  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:43 AM
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If you have nothing to hide why lie??? Some of u guys on here give terrible advice like "crack the window one inch" wow!
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  #137  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:07 PM
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Some of you sheep might develop a different attitude if you are ever taken out for slaughter. I'm sure the police will be real nice if you are cooperative, as they enjoy having your help in building a case against you.
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  #138  
Old 03-24-2014, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Some of you sheep might develop a different attitude if you are ever taken out for slaughter. I'm sure the police will be real nice if you are cooperative, as they enjoy having your help in building a case against you.
None of us are saying you should hop out of the vehicle, open the trunk, and tell every cop to search your vehicle every single time you're stopped because "you have nothing to hide."

What we're saying is that you shouldn't necessarily be doing the opposite of that either, which is being completely uncooperative and intentionally difficult -- for no reason other than you have the legal right to -- especially if you have nothing to hide.

Freedom of speech is an example: I am well within my rights to say just about whatever the hell I want to just about whatever person I want on the street. That does not make it the correct thing to do all the time, every time.

Extremes, on both sides (either 100% complacency and trust of authority, or 100% distrust and being uncooperative) are both bad ideas. The best course of action in life, in many situations, is the reasonable approach - not extreme on either end of the spectrum. This goes for all types of things, not just police contacts or civil rights, but just life in general.

And enough of you for calling me a sheep because I'm capable of knowing when to say "no," when to say "yes," and when to say "I want my lawyer." You, sir, are the sheep - not me. Use your brain, one size does not fit all.

**edit**

None of this really matters to me. Do whatever ya'll want to do, and then come back to CalGuns and write about your story and tell us all how it went for you. It doesn't really affect me in anyway shape or form. For me, I'll use common sense and decide when its time to buck authority, and when it's not.

Last edited by 9M62; 03-24-2014 at 1:32 PM..
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  #139  
Old 03-24-2014, 1:36 PM
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I would love to hear resident expert opinions on the implication of CCW holders in these traffic stop situations.

Yes, once you have contact with an LEO, you have to follow a specific protocol notifying them of such.

However, how do you retain your right to not have your "Range Toys" in the trunk become a point of scrutiny after identifying your permit and carry sidearm?

And yes, I understand the importance of preventing the scenario. I have never been asked if I have any weapons during a traffic stop, but would like to still get opinions on this...

Thanks!
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  #140  
Old 03-24-2014, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Modimo View Post
I would love to hear resident expert opinions on the implication of CCW holders in these traffic stop situations.

Yes, once you have contact with an LEO, you have to follow a specific protocol notifying them of such.

However, how do you retain your right to not have your "Range Toys" in the trunk become a point of scrutiny after identifying your permit and carry sidearm?

And yes, I understand the importance of preventing the scenario. I have never been asked if I have any weapons during a traffic stop, but would like to still get opinions on this...

Thanks!
Modimo,

Please keep in mind, that at the present time, you don't have the "right to not have your "Range Toys" in the trunk become a point of scrutiny", at least if you're in an incorporated city, or portion of an unincorporated area where shooting is prohibited (which is just about all of the urban county areas). The issue is with Penal Code section 25850(b) and the associated case law. In a nutshell, that allows a peace officer to inspect firearms to determine if they are loaded. There's associated case law that allows officers to search for such weapons under pretty much the same conditions as they would for contraband. It's kinda ridiculous for officers to inspect your licensed CCW to determine if it is loaded, but the law does allow for it. If they have PC to believe there are other weapons in your vehicle, the same authority to inspect exists.

The best way to prevent such action on the part of the LEO is to provide the LEO with some confidence that you're a law-abiding person. We're not looking to arrest good citizens on technical charges, were looking for real life crooks to place in jail.

I never had much contact with private person CCW holders during my active service. There just were not many of them in L.A. County. But of the three of four that I did have contact with over thirty+ years, they were all quite pleasant and brief. They were all traffic stops. I didn't feel the need to disarm anyone, and since I assessed that they were all law abiding folks (knowing the considerable effort they had to go through to get the permit), none were cited.

Please don't make a problem where there isn't one. Challenge an officer and they'll respond in kind. You'll probably lose. Help him do his job and he'll likely help you.
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  #141  
Old 03-24-2014, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Please don't make a problem where there isn't one. Challenge an officer and they'll respond in kind. You'll probably lose. Help him do his job and he'll likely help you.
You can't be trusted! No one talk to this guy! Everyone be as uncooperative as possible and refuse to speak to the police about anything! Do so because CalGun's paranoia types said so!














In all seriousness, good advice Rick.
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  #142  
Old 03-24-2014, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Please don't make a problem where there isn't one.
If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times. Don't interfere with what we do best!
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  #143  
Old 03-24-2014, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
the moment you state that you have firearms in the car, current CA law allows for the officer to inspect the firearms to make sure that they are not loaded.
And what's really bizarre, as Rick points out, even if you have a current CCW that permits the firearm to be loaded, the LEO can still insist on inspecting the firearm to determine whether it is loaded.
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  #144  
Old 03-24-2014, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Please don't make a problem where there isn't one. Challenge an officer and they'll respond in kind. You'll probably lose. Help him do his job and he'll likely help you.
His job is to find criminals and arrest them. If he is talking to me, guess what he is trying to do? Helping him would be a pretty stupid idea. As ANY defense attorney will tell you.
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  #145  
Old 03-24-2014, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M62 View Post
You can't be trusted! No one talk to this guy! Everyone be as uncooperative as possible and refuse to speak to the police about anything! Do so because CalGun's paranoia types said so!














In all seriousness, good advice Rick.

9M62,

Thanks. Until I scrolled down, I was starting to think that I couldn't talk to myself anymore.......
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  #146  
Old 03-24-2014, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
His job is to find criminals and arrest them. If he is talking to me, guess what he is trying to do? Helping him would be a pretty stupid idea. As ANY defense attorney will tell you.
So every time a cop talks to somebody there's going to be an arrest involved? C'mon. The main point is that if you are obeying the law, you have nothing to worry about. You're a gun owner. I assume your guns are owned legally. That makes you a law abiding citizen. I'm in my early 50's & I haven't been stopped in 15 years & when I was stopped (previously) for rolling thru a stop sign or passing a cop on the freeway, a little sugar went a long way & I got off with warnings.
There are a lot of people here who are paranoid & worried about things that haven't happened, might eventually happen, possibly could happen & so on. Live your life. Go to the range. Obey traffic laws. Transport your guns as prescribed by law. If you get stopped, deal with it.
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  #147  
Old 03-24-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wilburloo View Post
So every time a cop talks to somebody there's going to be an arrest involved? C'mon. The main point is that if you are obeying the law, you have nothing to worry about. You're a gun owner. I assume your guns are owned legally. That makes you a law abiding citizen. I'm in my early 50's & I haven't been stopped in 15 years & when I was stopped (previously) for rolling thru a stop sign or passing a cop on the freeway, a little sugar went a long way & I got off with warnings.
There are a lot of people here who are paranoid & worried about things that haven't happened, might eventually happen, possibly could happen & so on. Live your life. Go to the range. Obey traffic laws. Transport your guns as prescribed by law. If you get stopped, deal with it.
Guess you missed this post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=120

Your attitude is not uncommon, and countless people are in prison because of it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:54 PM
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Help him do his job and he'll likely help you.
Don't help him do his job. He cannot help you. He can only hurt you.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:57 AM
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Modimo,

Please keep in mind, that at the present time, you don't have the "right to not have your "Range Toys" in the trunk become a point of scrutiny", at least if you're in an incorporated city, or portion of an unincorporated area where shooting is prohibited (which is just about all of the urban county areas). The issue is with Penal Code section 25850(b) and the associated case law. In a nutshell, that allows a peace officer to inspect firearms to determine if they are loaded. There's associated case law that allows officers to search for such weapons under pretty much the same conditions as they would for contraband. It's kinda ridiculous for officers to inspect your licensed CCW to determine if it is loaded, but the law does allow for it. If they have PC to believe there are other weapons in your vehicle, the same authority to inspect exists.

The best way to prevent such action on the part of the LEO is to provide the LEO with some confidence that you're a law-abiding person. We're not looking to arrest good citizens on technical charges, were looking for real life crooks to place in jail.

I never had much contact with private person CCW holders during my active service. There just were not many of them in L.A. County. But of the three of four that I did have contact with over thirty+ years, they were all quite pleasant and brief. They were all traffic stops. I didn't feel the need to disarm anyone, and since I assessed that they were all law abiding folks (knowing the considerable effort they had to go through to get the permit), none were cited.

Please don't make a problem where there isn't one. Challenge an officer and they'll respond in kind. You'll probably lose. Help him do his job and he'll likely help you.
Thanks for your response. I don't think this addressed my question. I am a law-abiding citizen who enjoys shooting his legal firearms. I have many LEO friends (all Pro 2A) and have no interest in "challenging" an LEO or creating an issue out of nothing (that is a quick way of losing a CCW). I certainly do have an interest to follow the CCW guidelines set by my local SD, but doing so in a way that I don't have to "educate" the officer on any legal/unloaded/tax stamped firearms in the trunk. Again, this is a hypothetical since in my many years of VERY FEW traffic stops, I have never been questioned regarding firearms in the vehicle, however, this will change when having a CCW and I proactively let the officer know otherwise.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:40 AM
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Thanks for your response. I don't think this addressed my question. I am a law-abiding citizen who enjoys shooting his legal firearms. I have many LEO friends (all Pro 2A) and have no interest in "challenging" an LEO or creating an issue out of nothing (that is a quick way of losing a CCW). I certainly do have an interest to follow the CCW guidelines set by my local SD, but doing so in a way that I don't have to "educate" the officer on any legal/unloaded/tax stamped firearms in the trunk. Again, this is a hypothetical since in my many years of VERY FEW traffic stops, I have never been questioned regarding firearms in the vehicle, however, this will change when having a CCW and I proactively let the officer know otherwise.
Modimo,

Sorry if I didn't address your question squarely. I saw your question as seeking a method to avoid a LEO's scrutiny when lawfully carrying weapons, and in all candor, my response was that you really can't stop the scrutiny, but you can reduce your degree of exposure to it. And I tried to explain the reason for all of that lying in Penal Code section 25850(b).

It's a fair question if section 25850(b) can be fully reconciled with the Fourth Amendment. I'll simply observe that it is currently a valid statute.

My attention was also drawn to Microstencil's posting (Post #132) in which he reports being detained for two hours while CHP officers completed a check of his weapons. The sum of case law allows LEO's to detain persons for a reasonable period of time while conducting a field investigation where they have legal standing to investigate. Section 25850(b) provides that legal standing to inspect the firearms to determine if they are loaded. Once that determination is made, the legal standing for the detention evaporates. The LEO must then either obtain a different source of standing, or end the detention. Section 25850(b) does not provide standing to detain a person while running records checks of firearms. I believe that an officer is free to run a serial number that he can freely see during a 25850(b) check, but there is no authority to extend the period of detention to do so. Some folks have argued that Arizona v Hicks prohibits the running of serial numbers during field checks. I don't believe the holding of that case so provides. In Hicks, officers had to move equipment in order to obtain serial numbers, and that's what the court faulted. Hick's doesn't apply where the numbers are readily viewed.

My

Last edited by RickD427; 03-26-2014 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 04-04-2014, 9:43 PM
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Modimo,

Sorry if I didn't address your question squarely. I saw your question as seeking a method to avoid a LEO's scrutiny when lawfully carrying weapons, and in all candor, my response was that you really can't stop the scrutiny, but you can reduce your degree of exposure to it. And I tried to explain the reason for all of that lying in Penal Code section 25850(b).

It's a fair question if section 25850(b) can be fully reconciled with the Fourth Amendment. I'll simply observe that it is currently a valid statute.

My attention was also drawn to Microstencil's posting (Post #132) in which he reports being detained for two hours while CHP officers completed a check of his weapons. The sum of case law allows LEO's to detain persons for a reasonable period of time while conducting a field investigation where they have legal standing to investigate. Section 25850(b) provides that legal standing to inspect the firearms to determine if they are loaded. Once that determination is made, the legal standing for the detention evaporates. The LEO must then either obtain a different source of standing, or end the detention. Section 25850(b) does not provide standing to detain a person while running records checks of firearms. I believe that an officer is free to run a serial number that he can freely see during a 25850(b) check, but there is no authority to extend the period of detention to do so. Some folks have argued that Arizona v Hicks prohibits the running of serial numbers during field checks. I don't believe the holding of that case so provides. In Hicks, officers had to move equipment in order to obtain serial numbers, and that's what the court faulted. Hick's doesn't apply where the numbers are readily viewed.

My
On, "Readily viewed"

Hypo, the firearm is stored in the locked container with action open, mag out, and with the serial number side down (out of view). When the case is opened it is easy to confirm visually it is unloaded without manipulating the firearm or removing it from the case. Say a chamber flag is also used.

Would it be improper for the officer to pick up the firearm and run the serial numbers?

I would bet this would not stop them from picking it up if they wanted. And I would imagine throwing out case law and telling him he can't pick it up would not be helpful. But if the detention went on for 2 hours like described above I would likely file a complaint afterwards. That seems excessive.

I have been on the receiving end of a Deputy running serial numbers for my entire shooting party while out on a public range. At the time I didn't care much, everything was legal. I think I was kinda curious how the process worked. It took less than 30 minutes or so. So if a Deputy can radio in serial numbers one by one for ~10+ guns in ~30 minutes, 2 hours is probably excessive (but we don't know how many guns he had in the previously mentioned story). I watched him radio the serial # and gun description and heard a voice on the other end say "John Doe, Address" for each gun.
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  #152  
Old 04-24-2014, 7:06 PM
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What a lot of you apparently don't realize, is that you can protect and invoke your rights without being an ***hole..to the guy who said roll down your window an inch, all that's going to do its get you ordered out of the vehicle..You will be placed on the curb and surely be given a hefty citation..most cops are active gun owners too, but they are people too, so try to find a balance
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Old 04-24-2014, 7:31 PM
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Don't help him do his job. He cannot help you. He can only hurt you.

Cooperation begets cooperation.




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  #154  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:10 PM
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I have been on the receiving end of a Deputy running serial numbers for my entire shooting party while out on a public range. At the time I didn't care much, everything was legal. .
Are law officials allowed to stop you at the range to run your serial numbers?
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Old 04-26-2014, 9:14 AM
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I will agree to some extent. Just to bad they don't wear "good cop" "bad cop" labels so we know which ones to be polite too.
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:52 PM
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I am of the group of folks who prefer to hand over my license, insurance and registration as asked. Then remain quite.

I have been asked, where I am going? I answer a question with a question POLITELY. "Officer, is there a reason you need to know that?"
I have been asked if I knew why I was pulled over. "I assumed you knew officer, as I have no idea why?

The video is on this thread, don't talk to the police. Listen to it, watch it and learn it. ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you. (Notice no mention of for you.)

The back of my truck window and tailgate screams gun owner, NRA member and Veteran. So I always assume the officer will ask the question.
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  #157  
Old 04-27-2014, 1:20 PM
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On, "Readily viewed"

Hypo, the firearm is stored in the locked container with action open, mag out, and with the serial number side down (out of view). When the case is opened it is easy to confirm visually it is unloaded without manipulating the firearm or removing it from the case. Say a chamber flag is also used.

Would it be improper for the officer to pick up the firearm and run the serial numbers?

I would bet this would not stop them from picking it up if they wanted. And I would imagine throwing out case law and telling him he can't pick it up would not be helpful. But if the detention went on for 2 hours like described above I would likely file a complaint afterwards. That seems excessive.

I have been on the receiving end of a Deputy running serial numbers for my entire shooting party while out on a public range. At the time I didn't care much, everything was legal. I think I was kinda curious how the process worked. It took less than 30 minutes or so. So if a Deputy can radio in serial numbers one by one for ~10+ guns in ~30 minutes, 2 hours is probably excessive (but we don't know how many guns he had in the previously mentioned story). I watched him radio the serial # and gun description and heard a voice on the other end say "John Doe, Address" for each gun.
That would be for handguns only, considering the CDOJ doesn't keep names, model and serial numbers of long guns in the computer. (Until new long guns purchased or transferred beginning 1-1-14)

I don't understand why it would take 30 minutes to check on some handguns or even if such a check is justified...

Possibly any rifles would be checked against a stolen list, but again, no owners name would be announced over a radio. ..
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  #158  
Old 05-02-2014, 6:12 AM
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I just assume, if asked if I have any weapons in the car, the question is referring to illegal weapons. I would make this same assumption if asked about drugs in the car as well. Seams silly to answer the question of, 'do you have any drugs in the car', that, well, I have these here aspirin and some cough drops, and oh I think there is some antihistamine here as well. Surely the cops response would be, 'I'm talking about illegal drugs'. Since all lines of questioning are coming from the point of seeking out illegal activity, and I am quite cognizant of this fact, my assumptions are founded. I have no illegal weapons in the car.
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Old 05-09-2014, 8:18 PM
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I have been pulled over 3 times in my 55 years of driving. I have never been asked if I had a weapon in the car. If I am pulled over and asked about weapons I will be polite and answer all questions truthfully. I feel this is the best way to avoid any "imperial entanglements".

Your attitude in dealing with any law enforcement (assuming you are not breaking the law) has everything to do with the outcome. Upon returning from Africa I entered Customs with a 6" knife on my belt inside my back pocket. Two TSA agents approached me and asked how I was armed with a knife? I believe my reaction was "oh crap". I explained my trip had started 30 hrs earlier in the bush and I plain forgot I did not pack it and in Africa nobody really cared. They checked my ticket to validate my story and called a Delta agent who checked it. When I got to my destination my knife was not in the baggage office. I filed a form and it was delivered via UPS 2 days later. A display of any "attitude" most likely would have resulted in a different outcome.
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:11 PM
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Man, reading this thread gave me a huge headache. I feel like I just went onto a used car lot, 3 different sales guys approached me, and they're trying to sell me 3 different cars--SUV, Corvette, and Prius, all at the same time.

How is that all you "experts" out there have such a wide variety of opinions of how to deal with LE? We've got everything here from "Keep your windows rolled up all the way and don't say a word" to "Be super nice and disclose everything".
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