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  #161  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHolyLancer View Post
Hmm how about proof of what it looks like? I don't have pics from then, just now.

Like, can they say they don't trust me it was made then? Or like what exactly is proof in this case? Anything I have that is like fully made is going to be fine but like this one?
They can say whatever they want, but if they start telling people they "don't trust" that the rifle was assembled before 2017 then they're going to face a tsunami of new lawsuits. We were never required to take a photo of our guns before 2017, so it's unreasonable for them to require us to have them - we can't time travel.

Current photos of its current configuration are all you need. As long as your receiver was purchased before 2017, then they have to assume it was also assembled before 2017, unless THEY can prove otherwise.

If they demand proof that you built it before 2017, tell them to kick rocks, and to prove that you didn't. Involve a lawyer if you need to.

Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-30-2017 at 11:30 AM..
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  #162  
Old 08-30-2017, 1:25 PM
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I agree 100%
The burden of proof is on the DOJ. Any jury would set you free and you would not have to say one word in court.
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  #163  
Old 08-30-2017, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Overall length is measured with the stock folded/collapsed and with non-permanently attached muzzle devices removed.

If overall length is less than 26", then it will be considered a SBR. [PC 17170(b)]
Is there a definition of non permanent? So I have a yugo under folder that came with a pinned stock. I then bought a fake supressor things that is 5 inches and i attached it and then un pinned the stock? So with this setup the OAL is past 30 inches but the fake supressor is not pinned and wielded like you see on 14.5 inch barreled AR's, the supressor is just screwed on...Thanks for you help guys
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  #164  
Old 08-30-2017, 6:48 PM
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And one last question is that the Bullet Button or magazine locking device cannot be changed even if its too a raddlock or another bullet button....thats what I understand from reading this now.
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  #165  
Old 08-30-2017, 6:49 PM
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Pinned and welded, or silver-solder. Those are the two choices, most people would choose pinning and welding versus silver solder.

As for the stock, there's no requirement that the stock be fixed permanently. Just that it be fixed.
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  #166  
Old 08-30-2017, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Pinned and welded, or silver-solder. Those are the two choices, most people would choose pinning and welding versus silver solder.

As for the stock, there's no requirement that the stock be fixed permanently. Just that it be fixed.

Ok so the Faux supressor is a no go for registration but for now it is legal correct even though its non permanent?

And as far as the stock goes. So I can pin the under folding stock for registration but once I register it as a RAW I can unpin as OAL will be 26 inches? And I do not count the muzzle break in my measuring as that is not permanent too

Thanks
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  #167  
Old 08-30-2017, 7:00 PM
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I don't know about the first question, we're still trying to figure out if/how this affects guns that aren't being registered.

Once it's registered, you can do basically whatever you want to it as long as you don't change the mag release or otherwise make a gun that violates other laws (such as NFA).

Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-30-2017 at 7:02 PM..
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  #168  
Old 08-30-2017, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ucladude101 View Post
And one last question is that the Bullet Button or magazine locking device cannot be changed even if its too a raddlock or another bullet button....thats what I understand from reading this now.
It would be legal to remove the "bullet button" style magazine lock on the BBRAW, in order to repair it or replace it with a similar "bullet button" style magazine lock. [11 CCR 5477(b)]



11 CCR 5477
Post-Registration Modification of Registered Assault Weapons, Prohibition.
(a) The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding device on an assault weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) shall not be changed after the assault weapon is registered. A weapon's eligibility for registration pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) depends, in part, on its release mechanism. Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered.
(b) The prohibition in subdivision (a) does not extend to the repair or like-kind replacement of the mechanism.
(c) This prohibition in subdivision (a) does not extend to a firearm that is undergoing the deregistration process pursuant to section 5478. Written confirmation from the Department that acknowledges the owner's intent to deregister his or her assault weapon pursuant to section 5478 shall be proof the deregistration process has been initiated.
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  #169  
Old 08-30-2017, 7:49 PM
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Switching back and forth between a classic bullet button and a raddlock is debatable as to whether or not it's "like kind", so I would recommend deciding which mag release type you'll want to use, and installing it before taking photos for registration.

Personally, I'll probably be doing raddlocks on all mine, unless some other better option presents itself in the next few months... another reason why I'm waiting before I register.
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  #170  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:02 PM
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My lower doesn't indicate caliber size, can I list it as "multi caliber" on the registration?
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  #171  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldo View Post
My lower doesn't indicate caliber size, can I list it as "multi caliber" on the registration?
Yes.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #172  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It would be legal to remove the "bullet button" style magazine lock on the BBRAW, in order to repair it or replace it with a similar "bullet button" style magazine lock. [11 CCR 5477(b)]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Switching back and forth between a classic bullet button and a raddlock is debatable as to whether or not it's "like kind", so I would recommend deciding which mag release type you'll want to use, and installing it before taking photos for registration.

Personally, I'll probably be doing raddlocks on all mine, unless some other better option presents itself in the next few months... another reason why I'm waiting before I register.
I can't imagine how anyone would ever hold you to that. A raddlock looks the same in a photo as many more standard BB's I have. Like kind means any BB mechanism. It also functions the same way as a standard BB does, you can simply screw out the standard BB and it will function like a standard mag release at a certain point (although pretty sloppy). The raddlock is nothing special really, other than they made it more convenient.

Case and point, AK and other BB's vary so widely that there is no way to say you need to buy a solar tactical style AK BB when some other totally different manufacturer looks completely different. Some BB's I made myself, so there is no way I can replicate them exactly to whats in the photos. They all do the same exact thing.

Overthinking it puts too much stress on the process. All BB's are the same and interchangeable in theory.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #173  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I can't imagine how anyone would ever hold you to that. A raddlock looks the same in a photo as many more standard BB's I have. Like kind means any BB mechanism. It also functions the same way as a standard BB does, you can simply screw out the standard BB and it will function like a standard mag release at a certain point (although pretty sloppy). The raddlock is nothing special really, other than they made it more convenient.

Case and point, AK and other BB's vary so widely that there is no way to say you need to buy a solar tactical style AK BB when some other totally different manufacturer looks completely different. Some BB's I made myself, so there is no way I can replicate them exactly to whats in the photos. They all do the same exact thing.

Overthinking it puts too much stress on the process. All BB's are the same and interchangeable in theory.
You just gave me an idea... PM on the way
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  #174  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:42 PM
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You just gave me an idea... PM on the way
Wait, I need to think this idea out a little more, I'll get back to you
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  #175  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Wait, I need to think this idea out a little more, I'll get back to you
Hopefully it's not that 8ft tubular magazine on the other thread.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
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  #176  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:50 PM
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Hopefully it's not that 8ft tubular magazine on the other thread.
Dangit!

haha, nope, it's a mag release idea
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  #177  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:56 PM
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My lower doesn't indicate caliber size, can I list it as "multi caliber" on the registration?
No you can not. It's a drop down menu with choices for you to choose from. Multi caliber is not one of them.
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  #178  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:59 PM
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No you can not. It's a drop down menu with choices for you to choose from. Multi caliber is not one of them.
Yes it is, "Firearm with interchangeable barrels", at the bottom of the list.
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  #179  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:59 PM
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No you can not. It's a drop down menu with choices for you to choose from. Multi caliber is not one of them.
Your right, not called multi, it's the "firearms with interchange barrels". All AR's have interchangeable barrels.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
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  #180  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:00 PM
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Yes.
No you can not. It's a drop down menu with choices for you to choose from. Multi caliber is not one of them.
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  #181  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:02 PM
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No you can not. It's a drop down menu with choices for you to choose from. Multi caliber is not one of them.
Choose "firearms with interchangeable barrels", same difference. Everyone is doing that FYI, it makes sense. I probably will end up doing it on all rifles.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
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  #182  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:05 PM
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All firearms have interchangeable barrels, so IMO there's never a reason for anyone to choose a specific caliber, since "interchangeable barrels" is one of the choices.

FYI, this is all covered in the guide that this thread is about
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  #183  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Your right, not called multi, it's the "firearms with interchange barrels". All AR's have interchangeable barrels.
Look, You will be registering your rifle as it appears during the time you are registering. If it's a 5.56 or .308 that is what it is. Unless you have something like a Faxon AK/AR that is actually a rifle with an quick interchangeable barrel design, I wouldn't be picking that option. All the questions on the registration form are straight forward. I would highly suggest that if one decides to register there rifle to just give honest answers and don't try to over interpret what it is. Just answer truthfully.
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  #184  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:26 PM
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Look, You will be registering your rifle as it appears during the time you are registering. If it's a 5.56 or .308 that is what it is. Unless you have something like a Faxon AK/AR that is actually a rifle with an quick interchangeable barrel design, I wouldn't be picking that option. All the questions on the registration form are straight forward. I would highly suggest that if one decides to register there rifle to just give honest answers and don't try to over interpret what it is. Just answer truthfully.
Once again, DOJ gave us zero guidance on this, so all we can go on is what the law says, and the advice of lawyers. And if you recall from the webinar (did you watch that?), CRPA's legal team specifically said to select "interchangeable barrels" in place of "Multi". If you want to argue with them, go right ahead. In the meantime, the rest of us will enjoy our firearms with interchangeable barrels.

This is a silly argument.

Remember that changing barrels on an AR is as simple as pulling two pins. It's not rocket surgery. Many of us have several uppers in different calibers to go with our lowers. Even if you don't, it doesn't mean you couldn't if you wanted to, so it's an interchangeable barrel either way. Unless you welded the barrel to the upper, and the upper to the lower (did you?)

Besides, DOJ gave us no indication on how much work can be involved with changing barrels. They didn't say it has to be a quick-disconnect mechanism, they didn't say it has to take less than 2 hours and require less than 4 tools. They said nothing. So absent any guidance from them, if it's even remotely possible to change your barrel, it's an interchangeable barrel.

Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-30-2017 at 9:33 PM..
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  #185  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:42 PM
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Once again, DOJ gave us zero guidance on this, so all we can go on is what the law says, and the advice of lawyers. And if you recall from the webinar (did you watch that?), CRPA's legal team specifically said to select "interchangeable barrels" in place of "Multi". If you want to argue with them, go right ahead. In the meantime, the rest of us will enjoy our firearms with interchangeable barrels.

This is a silly argument.

Remember that changing barrels on an AR is as simple as pulling two pins. It's not rocket surgery. Many of us have several uppers in different calibers to go with our lowers. Even if you don't, it doesn't mean you couldn't if you wanted to, so it's an interchangeable barrel either way. Unless you welded the barrel to the upper, and the upper to the lower (did you?)

Besides, DOJ gave us no indication on how much work can be involved with changing barrels. They didn't say it has to be a quick-disconnect mechanism, they didn't say it has to take less than 2 hours and require less than 4 tools. They said nothing. So absent any guidance from them, if it's even remotely possible to change your barrel, it's an interchangeable barrel.
Sorry but it doesn't matter what the webinar said. If you pull the pins and switch out the upper it is no longer the same rifle that you registered. The DOJ states that you are registering a complete rifle. And you are submitting photos of that complete rifle.
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  #186  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:45 PM
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Look, You will be registering your rifle as it appears during the time you are registering. If it's a 5.56 or .308 that is what it is. Unless you have something like a Faxon AK/AR that is actually a rifle with an quick interchangeable barrel design, I wouldn't be picking that option. All the questions on the registration form are straight forward. I would highly suggest that if one decides to register there rifle to just give honest answers and don't try to over interpret what it is. Just answer truthfully.
Truth is I interchange my barrels all the time. You can too.

Not that any of it means anything, what could possibly be an issue with a rifle claimed to be a .223 tuning out to be a 6.5 grendal? No one cares.

In fact the only thing prompting us to choose interchangeable barrels is the fact that we truthfully interchange our barrels all the time.
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  #187  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:48 PM
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Sorry but it doesn't matter what the webinar said. If you pull the pins and switch out the upper it is no longer the same rifle that you registered. The DOJ states that you are registering a complete rifle. And you are submitting photos of that complete rifle.
FUD and silly. There is nothing saying every single part of the rifle can be changed after the registration other than the BB on that receiver.

Just do some more reading, this has been hashed out ad nauseum a million times. According to your fallacious logic we need to keep the rifle in the same config forever, which was debunked back in early January. You can change anything you want, including color, at any time. Just don't remove the BB yet.
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  #188  
Old 08-30-2017, 9:58 PM
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Any thoughts on if the type of weapon can be changed after registration, eg, an AR10 that you have both a .308 and shotgun upper for and/or if one would be preferred over the other?
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  #189  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:05 PM
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Any thoughts on if the type of weapon can be changed after registration, eg, an AR10 that you have both a .308 and shotgun upper for and/or if one would be preferred over the other?
Was that legal to do before? I honestly don't know. If it was legal before, then it will also be legal after you register. If it wasn't, then it still won't be.

I do know you can't take a rifle lower and attach a pistol upper, but I'm not sure how that works with rifle lowers and shotgun uppers.

Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-30-2017 at 10:08 PM..
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  #190  
Old 08-31-2017, 3:40 PM
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FUD and silly. There is nothing saying every single part of the rifle can be changed after the registration other than the BB on that receiver.

Just do some more reading, this has been hashed out ad nauseum a million times. According to your fallacious logic we need to keep the rifle in the same config forever, which was debunked back in early January. You can change anything you want, including color, at any time. Just don't remove the BB yet.
It's not me that's FUed it's these whole new stupid leftist laws that seem to make it easy for us to make one little mistake that could get us in trouble and give them an excuse to take our 2nd amendment rights from us, or forcing us to hash this out in court. They would like noting better than that to happen and try and make us all prohibited from owning, possessing or purchasing firearms. .
I've went ahead and registered some of my rifles. It seems to me the BOF is having us register a specific and completely operational rifle with a specific description of the rifle you are registering. Included in the registration process is submitting the caliber and submitting a minimum of 4 photos to identify that specific rifle for the purpose of identifying the specific characteristics and appearance of the rifle you are registering. Two photos from end to end right and left side and two clear close ups of the lower receiver clear enough to see the bullet button and identifying marking,(SS# and Manufacturer markings) right and left side. They do give you the option of adding extra photos so if you intend on picking the interchangeable barrel option instead of a specific caliber and intend on using different upper receiver like a shotgun upper on an AR-10 it may be prudent to add extra photos of the rifle in that configuration as well to make sure your registration is valid. You decide, it's up to you.

Last edited by wavecraft; 08-31-2017 at 4:07 PM..
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Old 08-31-2017, 3:48 PM
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Any thoughts on if the type of weapon can be changed after registration, eg, an AR10 that you have both a .308 and shotgun upper for and/or if one would be preferred over the other?
They do give you the option of adding extra photos so if you intend on picking the interchangeable barrel option instead of a specific caliber and intend on using different upper receiver like a shotgun upper on an AR-10 it may be prudent to add extra photos of the rifle in that configuration as well to make sure your registration is valid. You decide, it's up to you.

Last edited by wavecraft; 08-31-2017 at 4:07 PM..
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:02 PM
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It's not me that's FUed it's these whole new stupid leftist laws that seem to make it easy for us to make one little mistake that could get us in trouble and give them an excuse to take our 2nd amendment rights from us, they would like noting better than that to happen.
I've went ahead and registered some of my rifles. It seems to me the BOF is having us register a specific and complete rifle with a specific description of the rifle you are registering. Included in the registration process is submitting the caliber and submitting a minimum of 4 photos to identify that specific rifle for the purpose of identifying the specific characteristics and appearance of the rifle you are registering. Two photos from end to end right and left side and two clear close ups of the lower receiver clear enough to see the bullet button and identifying marking,(SS# and Manufacturer markings) right and left side. They do give you the option of adding extra photos so if you intend on picking the interchangeable barrel option instead of a specific caliber and intend on using different upper receiver like a shotgun upper on an AR-10 it may be prudent to add extra photos of the rifle in that configuration as well to make sure your registration is valid.
I think you are assuming that because they asked for 4 photos that you need to keep the rifle in some kind of configuration. This was an early fear and we all thought it for a moment, but we have gone through it step by step, line by line over the last 8 months. The general consensus is that there is nothing in the law, regulations, or anywhere that mandates that you keep anything other than the BB.

Again, we all thought it for a moment but there is no reason to suggest that you need to keep the rifle in any configuration that you photograph it in. No one knows why the DOJ asked for photos, there could be many reasons:

1) They wanted to make sure you had something that "looked" like a functioning rifle (not really a great way to tell, because the receiver could have nothing in it)

2) They wanted to visually see if you had a BB or something that looked like one on there. (again not a real good reason, because what the hell are they going to look at if it's not a standard BB? How do you convince someone it's a BB if they have never seen one like it and are likely minimum wage employees with idiot bosses who wouldn't no a gun from a 1972 Pinto)

3) They wanted to see the serial number (Really dumb because serials are not always on the side of guns)

4) They just wanted to make sure you didn't try and register something else (WHY?)

5) They wanted to make the process as difficult and time consuming and ripe for FUD as possible


Of all of those, #5 kind of jumps out at me.
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:13 PM
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I think you are assuming that because they asked for 4 photos that you need to keep the rifle in some kind of configuration. This was an early fear and we all thought it for a moment, but we have gone through it step by step, line by line over the last 8 months. The general consensus is that there is nothing in the law, regulations, or anywhere that mandates that you keep anything other than the BB.

Again, we all thought it for a moment but there is no reason to suggest that you need to keep the rifle in any configuration that you photograph it in. No one knows why the DOJ asked for photos, there could be many reasons:

1) They wanted to make sure you had something that "looked" like a functioning rifle (not really a great way to tell, because the receiver could have nothing in it)

2) They wanted to visually see if you had a BB or something that looked like one on there. (again not a real good reason, because what the hell are they going to look at if it's not a standard BB? How do you convince someone it's a BB if they have never seen one like it and are likely minimum wage employees with idiot bosses who wouldn't no a gun from a 1972 Pinto)

3) They wanted to see the serial number (Really dumb because serials are not always on the side of guns)

4) They just wanted to make sure you didn't try and register something else (WHY?)

5) They wanted to make the process as difficult and time consuming and ripe for FUD as possible


Of all of those, #5 kind of jumps out at me.
Just saying that I've gone through the registration process and this is the info. they are asking of us and it is the info. that we have to supply in order for us to register.
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:21 PM
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Just saying that I've gone through the registration process and this is the info. they are asking of us and it is the info. that we have to supply in order for us to register.
You're right, we have to supply that info. You're wrong that the information has to be specific. All AWs have interchangeable barrels, nearly all of them are multi-color (which is a choice in the color list), and while you have to enter one barrel length, you are free to enter a comment that the gun may use barrels of all different lengths. I'm guessing you did none of those things when you registered because I'm guessing you also didn't read this guide before you registered. It's great that you want to justify your mistakes but please stop trying to convince other people to make the same mistakes.
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:48 PM
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You're right, we have to supply that info. You're wrong that the information has to be specific. All AWs have interchangeable barrels, nearly all of them are multi-color (which is a choice in the color list), and while you have to enter one barrel length, you are free to enter a comment that the gun may use barrels of all different lengths. I'm guessing you did none of those things when you registered because I'm guessing you also didn't read this guide before you registered. It's great that you want to justify your mistakes but please stop trying to convince other people to make the same mistakes.
Sorry but they are asking for specific info. on the registration form. And I did used the comment section to explain appearance and colors for two of my rifles. I have one AR-10 that I use two different upper receives on and I added photos that depict the differences and noted those differences in the additional comment section. I've done the best I could to protect myself if ever some uninformed police officer were to arrest me because he beleaves I'm in possession of an illegal firearm. Everyone who registers should do the same.

Last edited by wavecraft; 08-31-2017 at 4:53 PM..
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:58 PM
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Sorry but they are asking for specific info. on the registration form. And I did used the comment section to explain appearance and colors for two of my rifles. I have one AR-10 that I use two different upper receives on and I added photos that depict the differences and noted those differences in the additional comment section. I've done the best I could to protect myself if ever some uninformed police officer were to arrest me because he beleaves I'm in possession of an illegal firearm. Everyone who registers should do the same.
Please either cite the law or regulation that says we aren't allowed to select "multi color" or "interchangeable barrels" from the drop-down menu, or quit saying the same thing over and over as if it's fact. This is a thread for explaining facts to people, not for baseless speculation, there are other threads for that.
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:59 PM
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I think wavecraft is Meno.
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Old 08-31-2017, 5:11 PM
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Please either cite the law or regulation that says we aren't allowed to select "multi color" or "interchangeable barrels" from the drop-down menu, or quit saying the same thing over and over as if it's fact. This is a thread for explaining facts to people, not for baseless speculation, there are other threads for that.
There are non, and I'm not saying nor have I ever said there is. I only know the questions that they are asking us to answer on the registration form. And they are specific. If you pick multi color it would be prudent to explain it in the comment section. If you are using different uppers of different calibers and different appearance and you have picked interchangeable barrel, it would be prudent for you to add additional photos depicting it and additionally explain it in the comment section. I'm not say you have to do this, but I think it would be the right thing to do in order for you to protect yourself if you ever needed to defend yourself in court.

Last edited by wavecraft; 08-31-2017 at 5:13 PM..
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Old 08-31-2017, 5:28 PM
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There are non, and I'm not saying nor have I ever said there is. I only know the questions that they are asking us to answer on the registration form. And they are specific. If you pick multi color it would be prudent to explain it in the comment section. If you are using different uppers of different calibers and different appearance and you have picked interchangeable barrel, it would be prudent for you to add additional photos depicting it and additionally explain it in the comment section. I'm not say you have to do this, but I think it would be the right thing to do in order for you to protect yourself if you ever needed to defend yourself in court.
If you ever have to defend yourself in court, it is prudent to be as non-specific as they'll let you get away with.
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Old 08-31-2017, 5:54 PM
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If you ever have to defend yourself in court, it is prudent to be as non-specific as they'll let you get away with.
Okay, i agree with that.
But keep in mind if any one of us end up (God forbid) in court facing a liberal judge that isn't ruling in a way that would protect our rights but in a way that he is looking for anything he can to hang on us, we may be screwed. So now they have the rifle that they unlawfully took from you, and suspect that it is illegal. But you say no your honor it not because I registered it as an AW. The judge looks at your registration, and the photos, compare it to the rifle they took from you. And in his mind it doesn't even look like the rifle in the registration because you changed the upper receiver that is different than the one in the photos and that you failed to depict that and explain it in the registration process, even though the SS# and other info. is correct. Well then we will passably be facing a conviction. My point being that we should do the best we can, not to give them a leg to stand on if we are forced to defend ourselves in a court of law.

Last edited by wavecraft; 08-31-2017 at 6:01 PM..
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