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  #201  
Old 08-22-2017, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick G View Post
I am no longer a felon - my court records show this. I can log into the county public access system, and it shows the felony is now certified as a misdemeanor, as well as showing the charges dismissed (due to the 1203.4).

The issue isn't whether or not we're felons - we're not. The issue is getting the DOJ to follow the law and update their system and the FBI's to allow us to buy a firearm. Per the text of the law, we have already successfully petitioned the court and are therefore able to be in possession of a firearm. As someone else mentioned, a person convicted of the same crime today could go buy a gun tomorrow.

Now the problem I see with borrowing a family member's gun is this - what happens if you're pulled over and a LEO runs your driver's license? What does their system check? If it's checking the DOJ system, it indicates you're a felon. This could end with you going to jail and having to spend money to bail out and fight it. You would win the case, but it's a loss of time and money in the process. That being said, I will be carrying all my relevant court paperwork with me while in possession.
Yes! Good... You got my point! And you make me wonder if any LEO's here on Calguns would like to chime in on this or share what they would be forced to do in a situation like the one you mentioned.
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  #202  
Old 08-22-2017, 7:30 PM
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I have a buddy that works dispatch. He would be the one relaying info to the officer. I'll ping him and see if he has any insight. Then I'll see if he can run me lol.

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  #203  
Old 08-22-2017, 8:04 PM
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Well he says nothing popped up saying I'm prohibited. Now I'm even more confused.

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  #204  
Old 08-22-2017, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by grumeazy View Post
Well he says nothing popped up saying I'm prohibited. Now I'm even more confused.

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Does the misdemeanor show up?
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  #205  
Old 08-22-2017, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by The Papa View Post
Does the misdemeanor show up?
Didn't say. All he said was he would know if ideas prohibited so if a leo had him run me i would come back code 4

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  #206  
Old 08-22-2017, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by grumeazy View Post
Didn't say. All he said was he would know if ideas prohibited so if a leo had him run me i would come back code 4

sent from the internets
Hmmm????? Well that's good to know. I'll hit a few of my buddies up tomorrow and see what happens and maybe we can come to a general conclusion of what "may happen" LOL gotta love the internet baby!
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  #207  
Old 08-22-2017, 8:17 PM
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He said just stay in his county and hope he's on dispatch lol then he suggested to buy one of his guns to try and see what happens. Not yet, not yet.

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  #208  
Old 08-22-2017, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by grumeazy View Post
He said just stay in his county and hope he's on dispatch lol then he suggested to buy one of his guns to try and see what happens. Not yet, not yet.

sent from the internets
That's basically what I did on my first DROS. I DROS'd a buddies gun who is an FFL to see if I was clear. If it cleared we would have just canceled it and I could buy what I wanted. Only out $25 to find out. I lost $25
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  #209  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by grumeazy View Post
Well he says nothing popped up saying I'm prohibited. Now I'm even more confused.

sent from the internets
Good to know, thanks for sharing! I wonder what database they use? Does your buddy happen to know?
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  #210  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick G View Post
Good to know, thanks for sharing! I wonder what database they use? Does your buddy happen to know?
He doesn't. Just said it would pop up prohibited person.

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  #211  
Old 08-24-2017, 1:35 PM
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Here's the canned response from the NRA. Nobody seems to actually read emails, must be the three initials thing as all the DOJ responses seem to be templates as well. "Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA regarding your past conviction. In order to restore your 2nd Amendment rights you will need to receive a full pardon of your conviction. If the crime you were convicted of was on the federal level you will need to receive a pardon signed by the United States President through the U.S Department of Justice Office of the Pardon Attorney. Here is the number to reach their office: 202-616-6070. If you were convicted under state law then you will need to receive a pardon from the Governorís office in the state where the offense occurred. I hope you find this information helpful."

I replied and informed him of the quagmire of now having a misdemeanor and pardons only being for felonies or misdemeanor sex crimes.
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  #212  
Old 08-24-2017, 1:42 PM
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I wonder if the NRA just doesn't want to touch this topic... I'm sure the headline, "NRA fights to arm former felons" is something they want to avoid. Just curious, are you a member? If so, did you provide your member number when you asked?

I work for the DoD and have a secret clearance. You'd think if they could trust a person with national security they could trust the same person with a gun.
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  #213  
Old 08-27-2017, 10:38 PM
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What is this liveprints system I keep hearing about?

I also had a reclassification on prop 64 that I need to check on. I have my paperwork with me at all times, and my lawyer says it's good. But I don't trust them cumputerzs.

So can we really request a check of our records and demand a correction similar as our credit report. lol. Sounds to easy. I was expecting to get arrested for Felon in possession sit in jail over the weekend tell i get to a judge. Then have to pay the impound to get my car back. Deal with never getting my guns back, then get home to find the dog dead cuz no one home to give him water.

lol. CriminalKarma Check your record, Keep track of your score!
So is this livescan official? I can take it and be GTG?
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  #214  
Old 08-27-2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Papa View Post
Yes! Good... You got my point! And you make me wonder if any LEO's here on Calguns would like to chime in on this or share what they would be forced to do in a situation like the one you mentioned.
I'm thinking LEO would still arrest the person regardless of what paperwork they have on them. The cops always have to go by what the DOJ system says. They would be in the hook if someone had forged or incorrect paperwork.
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  #215  
Old 08-27-2017, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by chicopilot View Post
Super happy to find this thread, nice to meet you guys. Thank you for all the work you've done figuring out the system and sharing all of your knowledge. I'm in the beginning of the battle, waiting to hear back from the court about a prop 64 reduction. I didn't even know this was an option until recently.

Anyway, this thread is very relevant to my situation so I'm appreciative that you guys are working through this and sharing it all.

I'm curious, I've seen it asked here earlier on this thread but is there anyone that has been able to successfully buy a firearm after getting the prop 64 reduction? The DOJ thing sounds problematic....

Thank you.
Big problem in this thread I believe is people are calling it a "reduction" it's not. It's a reclassification do to what used to be a felony on the books simply diapering. The felony does not exist anymore...so how can you have been convicted of it?
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  #216  
Old 08-28-2017, 6:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
Big problem in this thread I believe is people are calling it a "reduction" it's not. It's a reclassification do to what used to be a felony on the books simply diapering. The felony does not exist anymore...so how can you have been convicted of it?

That's not how it works


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  #217  
Old 08-28-2017, 7:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
Big problem in this thread I believe is people are calling it a "reduction" it's not. It's a reclassification do to what used to be a felony on the books simply diapering. The felony does not exist anymore...so how can you have been convicted of it?
From the court record:
Reduction Granted

02/01/2017 P64 Application Filed Prop 64
05/30/2017 Public Historical Documents
06/08/2017 DA response filed
06/12/2017 Sent for Judicial Review
06/20/2017 P64 Petition/Application for Reduction Granted
06/30/2017 Subsequent JUS 8715A form issued
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  #218  
Old 08-28-2017, 9:13 AM
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SP1200 is correct, it's not a reduction, it's a redesignation. Look at page 67, where the sample petition is:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/p...o-20161110.pdf

"2. REDESIGNATION GRANTED
The applicant is eligible for the requested relief. The application is GRANTED. The court hereby recalls the sentence imposed on the designated crime(s)..."

I think the big issue here is that this is completely uncharted territory. I don't think we've ever had another scenario where a person could have a felony removed from the record and redesignated as a lessor, non-felony crime. Even those convicted of bootlegging and the like had to serve out the remainder of their sentences after the end of prohibition.
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  #219  
Old 08-28-2017, 9:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
That's not how it works


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If you're going to post something like this, please expand on it and tell us HOW it works. Otherwise, it doesn't add anything to this discussion.
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  #220  
Old 08-28-2017, 9:43 AM
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Fascinating thread, I check it 5 times a day to read what people are adding. Once again let me say how much I appreciate all of the knowledge people are sharing here. It sure will be interesting once this has been settled once and for all and the precedent gets set. Good luck to everyone here.
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  #221  
Old 08-28-2017, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick G View Post
SP1200 is correct, it's not a reduction, it's a redesignation. Look at page 67, where the sample petition is:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/p...o-20161110.pdf

"2. REDESIGNATION GRANTED
The applicant is eligible for the requested relief. The application is GRANTED. The court hereby recalls the sentence imposed on the designated crime(s)..."

I think the big issue here is that this is completely uncharted territory. I don't think we've ever had another scenario where a person could have a felony removed from the record and redesignated as a lessor, non-felony crime. Even those convicted of bootlegging and the like had to serve out the remainder of their sentences after the end of prohibition.
Reduction/Redesignation semantics
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  #222  
Old 08-28-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dilexi View Post
Reduction/Redesignation semantics
Maybe so, but when it comes to legal terms, semantics is everything (i.e. the use of shall vs. will in legal contracts).

In our situation, reduction and redesignation is completely different. The penalties weren't reduced (as in a wobbler case), but rather the crime was changed from one crime to another with different penalties applied (redesignation).
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  #223  
Old 08-28-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick G View Post
Maybe so, but when it comes to legal terms, semantics is everything (i.e. the use of shall vs. will in legal contracts).

In our situation, reduction and redesignation is completely different. The penalties weren't reduced (as in a wobbler case), but rather the crime was changed from one crime to another with different penalties applied (redesignation).
With the Advent of proposition 64 a felony 11359 became a wobbler
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  #224  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:37 PM
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We need to introduce some bills that make owning an illegal assault weapon an infraction if you are caught... Let's just get all of the punish-legit-gun-owners bills reclassified too.
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  #225  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dilexi View Post
From the court record:
Reduction Granted

02/01/2017 P64 Application Filed Prop 64
05/30/2017 Public Historical Documents
06/08/2017 DA response filed
06/12/2017 Sent for Judicial Review
06/20/2017 P64 Petition/Application for Reduction Granted
06/30/2017 Subsequent JUS 8715A form issued
Wow I can definitely see where the confusion comes in.
Is that a printout of your local courts record?
Does your personal paperwork say reduction or reclassification?


I'm gonna go get my paperwork, and redact my personal info and scan and post a copy of the entire document for everyone to see. I'm starting to wonder if different courts and lawyers are doing essentially the same thing, but using different paperwork and or process.

My lawyer was also at a crossroads as what to do about my case. He was wondering if we would be better to go forward with a 17(b) as planned, or if the reclassification would be better. My charge was 11357(a) Felony possession of concentrate MJ. But it seems others have a possession for sale and so on. Perhaps each case the lawyers decided to go forward with a 17B reduction rather than go into uncharted territory?

Last edited by SP1200SP1200; 08-28-2017 at 1:01 PM..
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  #226  
Old 08-28-2017, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
Wow I can definitely see where the confusion comes in.
Is that a printout of your local courts record?
Does your personal paperwork say reduction or reclassification?


I'm gonna go get my paperwork, and redact my personal info and scan and post a copy of the entire document for everyone to see. I'm starting to wonder if different courts and lawyers are doing essentially the same thing, but using different paperwork and or process.
I copied the my local court record.
It says reduction.
Court papers I filed, say redesignation to a misdemeanor
Reduction granted and redesignated to a misdemeanor.
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  #227  
Old 08-31-2017, 9:37 PM
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So i just created a CFARS account. And volreged 6 of my firearms using the "Firearm Ownership Report" it said it said "submitted" and my CC was charged.

Does this mean they got it right and actually restored my rights??

I'm confused do to the fine print at the end of the form....

"I expressly authorize the Department of Justice to perform firearms eligibility checks of all relevant state and federal databases, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. I also understand that if I currently possess or own firearms and the results of this check reveal that I am ineligible either to lawfully possess or purchase firearms, I must relinquish any and all firearms in my possession. Agreed"

I'm thinking this is just to cover their *** if they want to take a firearm at a later date?
because didn't someone say they were rejected do to felon as they tried to apply?
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  #228  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
So i just created a CFARS account. And volreged 6 of my firearms using the "Firearm Ownership Report" it said it said "submitted" and my CC was charged.

Does this mean they got it right and actually restored my rights??

I'm confused do to the fine print at the end of the form....

"I expressly authorize the Department of Justice to perform firearms eligibility checks of all relevant state and federal databases, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. I also understand that if I currently possess or own firearms and the results of this check reveal that I am ineligible either to lawfully possess or purchase firearms, I must relinquish any and all firearms in my possession. Agreed"

I'm thinking this is just to cover their *** if they want to take a firearm at a later date?
because didn't someone say they were rejected do to felon as they tried to apply?
If you are ineligible to own or possess firearms, you should not own or possess firearms. Comply with applicable law.

You submitted a registration form. CA DOJ will presumably run a check on your eligibility to own or possess firearms. If you are eligible to own or possess firearms, you'll presumably receive a confirmation notice of your registration. If you are not eligible to possess firearms . . . I don't know; contact an attorney to arrange to relinquish those firearms promptly, hopefully in a manner that doesn't generate potential criminal charges for possession, accidental as it may be? Comply with applicable law.
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  #229  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
So i just created a CFARS account. And volreged 6 of my firearms using the "Firearm Ownership Report" it said it said "submitted" and my CC was charged.

Does this mean they got it right and actually restored my rights??
No, it just means your application was submitted. Now they will run a background check on you, and if you come back prohibited - Lord help you, even if you are not prohibited.

Here's another acronym you should get familiar with real quick. APPS
https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/atta...fact_sheet.pdf

You just injected yourself into a database they cross reference against the prohibited list.

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/20/213546...lly-owned-guns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwRvDXq8ft8

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 08-31-2017 at 10:41 PM..
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  #230  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cortelli View Post
If you are ineligible to own or possess firearms, you should not own or possess firearms. Comply with applicable law.

You submitted a registration form. CA DOJ will presumably run a check on your eligibility to own or possess firearms. If you are eligible to own or possess firearms, you'll presumably receive a confirmation notice of your registration. If you are not eligible to possess firearms . . . I don't know; contact an attorney to arrange to relinquish those firearms promptly, hopefully in a manner that doesn't generate potential criminal charges for possession, accidental as it may be? Comply with applicable law.
Sorry. Let me make myself clear.
I'M NOT PROHIBITED!

But in this thread, there is many discussion about DOJ not updating their records.
I have all my paperwork in order but does the CFARS system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick G View Post
The issue isn't whether or not we're felons - we're not. The issue is getting the DOJ to follow the law and update their system and the FBI's to allow us to buy a firearm. Per the text of the law, we have already successfully petitioned the court and are therefore able to be in possession of a firearm.

Last edited by SP1200SP1200; 08-31-2017 at 11:10 PM..
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  #231  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
Ohh great. SkyHawk, So are you saying we shouldn't volreg our firearms and this system is a setup?
I'm saying don't volreg (or possess guns at all) if you have past criminal history that could be unresolved for DOJ, unless you are certain the DOJ doesn't consider you prohibited. One good way to know that is a successful DROS, or a sucessful PFEC.

Neither of those are 100% guarantees though. I have seen PFEC good then DROS denied, and I have seen DROS approved then denied the next several times because DOJ does not always check NICS.

If you have passed several consecutive DROS, or have a CCW, or you got a COE, then it is safe to say DOJ does not consider you prohibited.

But when you volreg, you are admitting to possessing firearms. If you then come up prohibited in the DOJ system, I don't see how that ends well.

At the intersection of "we know he has a gun" and "we think he is prohibited" is the APPS and the agents we call 'The Goon Squad', who show up at your house for a knock and talk.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 08-31-2017 at 11:06 PM..
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  #232  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
Sorry. Let me make myself clear.
I'M NOT PROHIBITED!

But in this thread, there is many discussion about DOJ not updating their records.
I have all my paperwork in order but does the CFARS system?

I HAVE been in touch with my lawyer who said I have had my firearms rights restored and gave me the court paperwork that says so. So i don't think there will be a need to "arrange to relinquish those firearms promptly" and the state CANNOT "generate potential criminal charges for possession" as it would be unlawful for the state to hold me guilty to a felony conviction that does not exist. Have you not been reading this thread? at all?
See Skyhawk's post above.

Have you not been reading this thread? At all? Most of this thread is about folks who have jumped through ten different hoops to have their right to possess firearms restored as the law provides, but have still struggled with CA DOJ to make that fact a reality and to be able to pass a background to DROS a firearm. Many of them have paperwork from the courts or from their lawyers. They've contacted state politicians to help get the CA DOJ off the stick to respect the rulings. It still sounds like a clusterF.

I am not accusing you of anything. I'm saying you ought to be treading very carefully. And I'm thinking you should ring up your attorney who confirmed your eligibility and provided paperwork to you so that he/she is aware of what's happening and you don't get more hassle (or much worse) from CA DOJ. Best of luck to you!
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  #233  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cortelli View Post
See Skyhawk's post above.

Have you not been reading this thread? At all? Most of this thread is about folks who have jumped through ten different hoops to have their right to possess firearms restored as the law provides, but have still struggled with CA DOJ to make that fact a reality and to be able to pass a background to DROS a firearm. Many of them have paperwork from the courts or from their lawyers. They've contacted state politicians to help get the CA DOJ off the stick to respect the rulings. It still sounds like a clusterF.

I am not accusing you of anything. I'm saying you ought to be treading very carefully. And I'm thinking you should ring up your attorney who confirmed your eligibility and provided paperwork to you so that he/she is aware of what's happening and you don't get more hassle (or much worse) from CA DOJ. Best of luck to you!
I'm sorry. I thought you might have been on of those who don't support prop 64. And was just assuming I'm some thug druggie.

So I guess I'll find out the hard way... as usual. lol.

I'm assuming that If they find I'm a felon and deny my volreg I'd probably get a letter or some sort. I hope.
Worst case I guess I'm gonna have to surrender my firearms to the sheriff at my doorstep as he saying sorry I know you not a bad guy but the computer says....

Anyone know how long it takes to receive volreg conformation? Does it come by email or snailmail?

Last edited by SP1200SP1200; 08-31-2017 at 11:16 PM..
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  #234  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
I'm saying don't volreg (or possess guns at all) if you have past criminal history that could be unresolved for DOJ, unless you are certain the DOJ doesn't consider you prohibited. One good way to know that is a successful DROS, or a sucessful PFEC.

Neither of those are 100% guarantees though. I have seen PFEC good then DROS denied, and I have seen DROS approved then denied the next several times because DOJ does not always check NICS.

If you have passed several consecutive DROS, or have a CCW, or you got a COE, then it is safe to say DOJ does not consider you prohibited.

But when you volreg, you are admitting to possessing firearms. If you then come up prohibited in the DOJ system, I don't see how that ends well.

At the intersection of "we know he has a gun" and "we think he is prohibited" is the APPS and the agents we call 'The Goon Squad', who show up at your house for a knock and talk.
Humm. Yea I see your point.
What is a "COE" I seen that option on the CRIS system.

Everyone is saying to do a live scan. How exactly does that work?
I found the "self check" form on the web, and a local place that will do a live scan, ($55) but when I called and asked they seemed clueless about a self check.

I've heard anything from it's instant, to you have to wait for it in the mail and so forth. ugh. Now I'm nervous! Thinking imma call my lawyer again just to CYA. well i guess that would be a CMA.
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  #235  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:50 PM
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COE = certificate of eligibility. It is what firearms dealers and their employees, as well as others in the firearms business - must have, and others can have if they want (like collectors/03 FFLs).
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cert-eligibility

The 'self check' is the PFEC, personal firearms eligibility check. It is not instant. Nothing in this state is instant when it comes to anything having to do with guns.
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pfecfaqs

The COE also does a type of PFEC, though presumably more thorough since it comes with a certificate.

Quote:
The initial COE application process includes a firearms eligibility criminal background check and issuance of a certificate, which is valid for one year. Thereafter, the COE must be renewed annually.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 08-31-2017 at 11:54 PM..
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  #236  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:27 AM
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becxltoo984 becxltoo984 is offline
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maybe this 1st ...
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...ms/pfecapp.pdf
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  #237  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:55 AM
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I have been hearing the PFEC can take up to 6 months, and that is why livescan seems to be the quickest way.
I guess with livescan the DOJ has 30 days to respond to an error...

Heres what I'll do.

1. Livescan (not sure when or how I get the "rap" sheet)
2. FBI ID History Summary Check through "approved channeler"

I've heard the FBI ID check results come via email within a few hours.
The Livescan I heard can take weeks via USPS mail.

Hope I can find out a quicker way with the live scan.

Last edited by SP1200SP1200; 09-01-2017 at 1:10 AM..
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  #238  
Old 09-01-2017, 5:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SP1200SP1200 View Post
I'm sorry. I thought you might have been on of those who don't support prop 64. And was just assuming I'm some thug druggie.

So I guess I'll find out the hard way... as usual. lol.

I'm assuming that If they find I'm a felon and deny my volreg I'd probably get a letter or some sort. I hope.
Worst case I guess I'm gonna have to surrender my firearms to the sheriff at my doorstep as he saying sorry I know you not a bad guy but the computer says....

Anyone know how long it takes to receive volreg conformation? Does it come by email or snailmail?
If they do show up don't expect them to behave in that manner. Just saying'....

Unfortunately the DOJ is currently moving at a snails pace regarding restoring firearms eligibility to prop 64 recipients.

Unfortunately they do not care.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do and I certainly WOULD NOT press the situation by putting your thumb to your nose and saying nah nah nah nah nah. If you do or do not possess firearms I would not advertise it right now.

It sounds to me like you believe you are no longer a felon due to prop 64 (and I would agree) but UNTIL the DOJ and FBI are up to date I would not put myself into any precarious situation that may cost you unnecessary time, money or stress in your life.
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  #239  
Old 09-01-2017, 7:44 AM
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Perhaps, just perhaps, as a result of the trial court win in Gentry v Becerra the DOJ will stop spending DROS fees on activities other than APPS, including reflecting the prop 64 orders, and that will speed up the snail's pace.
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  #240  
Old 09-01-2017, 3:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Papa View Post
If they do show up don't expect them to behave in that manner. Just saying'....

Unfortunately the DOJ is currently moving at a snails pace regarding restoring firearms eligibility to prop 64 recipients.

Unfortunately they do not care.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do and I certainly WOULD NOT press the situation by putting your thumb to your nose and saying nah nah nah nah nah. If you do or do not possess firearms I would not advertise it right now.

It sounds to me like you believe you are no longer a felon due to prop 64 (and I would agree) but UNTIL the DOJ and FBI are up to date I would not put myself into any precarious situation that may cost you unnecessary time, money or stress in your life.
Yea good point.

I feel really stupid for using the CRIS system to volreg some firearms.
I just honestly believed the judge and the county courts in regards to my status and rights.
Even though I'm doing nothing wrong, it could still cost money.
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