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  #1  
Old 05-25-2017, 6:56 AM
grumeazy grumeazy is offline
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Default PROP 64 reducing felony to a misdemeanor

Has any one else gotten their felony reduced to a misdemeanor under prop 64 and been able to purchase a firearm?

Short story long, when I was a stupid 18 year old I was arrested for HS11360 and HS11359. Ended up with a plea to just the HS11360. Other than traffic tickets, of course, that is the only time i have ever been in trouble with the law. Since then I have gotten the 1203.4 dismissal (does pretty much nothing) and now I have gotten the whole thing reduced to a misdemeanor with the new prop 64.

Back in Feb I mailed in a PFEC just to see what they would say but the check was never cashed so I am assuming it got lost some where. Did a livescan yesterday to see if my record with the DOJ was amended or not. Just wondering if any one else has gone through this and what their experiences are.
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Old 05-25-2017, 7:02 AM
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Someone should chime in maybe 17b necessary.
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Old 05-25-2017, 8:13 AM
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PFEC can take forever. It's probably not lost, took over 4 months for mine to clear, I've heard of it taking up to 6.

I know it's easier said than done, but just hold tight until you see the results of your livescan. And be prepared to challenge it with any paperwork you have from the court regarding the reduction. If you don't have paperwork, go ahead and get down to the court now and get a certified copy (or several).

The challenge process takes about a month if your record doesn't show the most recent changes, and from what I've seen, the courts aren't the best at updating the DOJ.

you can also send an email to the DOJ firearms bureau after you receive your livescan. Or send them a letter. They seem to be more responsive to certified letters in my experience. =)

EDIT: And a 17(b) likely isn't a possibility for your case. 11360 doesn't meet the requirements of a 17(b) reduction. I got one for a 11360, but I actually had my plea withdrawn and pled to a 11357. DOJ recorded the reduction under a 17(b)(5), but that is now being challenged by NICS.

Last edited by JeepFiend; 05-25-2017 at 8:16 AM..
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Old 05-25-2017, 8:51 AM
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Is this the section?

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section or as authorized by law, every person who transports, imports into this state, sells, furnishes, administers, or gives away, or offers to transport, import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give away, or attempts to import into this state or transport any marijuana shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code for a period of two, three or four years.
(b) Except as authorized by law, every person who gives away, offers to give away, transports, offers to transport, or attempts to transport not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis, is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100).  In any case in which a person is arrested for a violation of this subdivision and does not demand to be taken before a magistrate, such person shall be released by the arresting officer upon presentation of satisfactory evidence of identity and giving his written promise to appear in court, as provided in Section 853.6 of the Penal Code, and shall not be subjected to booking.
- See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/health-a....fH7bhPEU.dpuf
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Old 05-25-2017, 8:53 AM
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would have thought they would have at least cashed the check! I am already prepared with the paperwork, I have several certified copies. Im not in any rush, I just like to be as informed as possible.

I don't think a 17b would help even it was applicable since the prop 64 vacates the original offense level and replaces it with a misdemeanor. According to the prop "shall be considered a misdemeanor or infraction for all purposes."

If you were arrested and convicted of the same offense today it would be a misdemeanor and nothing would happen to your 2a rights. Guess I should have waited 17 to make stupid decisions lol.
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Old 05-25-2017, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Is this the section?

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section or as authorized by law, every person who transports, imports into this state, sells, furnishes, administers, or gives away, or offers to transport, import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give away, or attempts to import into this state or transport any marijuana shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code for a period of two, three or four years.
(b) Except as authorized by law, every person who gives away, offers to give away, transports, offers to transport, or attempts to transport not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis, is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100).  In any case in which a person is arrested for a violation of this subdivision and does not demand to be taken before a magistrate, such person shall be released by the arresting officer upon presentation of satisfactory evidence of identity and giving his written promise to appear in court, as provided in Section 853.6 of the Penal Code, and shall not be subjected to booking.
- See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/health-a....fH7bhPEU.dpuf
That is the old law before ammended by prop 64. Yes I was originally convicted of 11360(a). Now, according to the OC courts website and the order signed by the judge, I have been convicted of HS11360 (a)(2) wich is a misdemeanor. Here's the new law and what it says i plead guilty to

11360.
Unlawful Transportation, Importation, Sale, or Gift.
(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section or as authorized by law, every person who transports, imports into this state, sells, furnishes, administers, or gives away, or offers to transport, import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give away, or attempts to import into this state or transport any marijuana shall be punished as follows:
(1) Persons under the age of 18 years shall be punished in the same manner as provided in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 11357.
(2) Persons 18 years of age or over shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a period of not more than six months or by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
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  #7  
Old 05-25-2017, 9:42 AM
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Yeah, 17(b) is alternative method to Prop 64, I was clarifying why another post wasn't an option.

As for the PFEC, you can do what I did and hope it turns out the same. I sent in another PFEC via certified mail with a second check and a letter saying I thought my previous attempt had been misplaced and to either send two copies of the PFEC or refund one of the checks. Within a week I got a PFEC along with my second check in the mail.

As I recall, the first check cleared like one day before it arrived in the mail, but I've heard of others that didn't have the check clear for a couple months and the PFEC not arrive for another couple months.

My guess is with the Prop 64 in full effect now, they're probably swamped with folks making sure they got their rights back.

The livescan should essentially tell you whether or not you're eligible by either reporting the reduction or not. Livescans show up fast. And challenges are required to be responded to in 30 days. PFEC has no time requirements, and I think it's kind of a backburner item for BOF.
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Old 05-25-2017, 9:48 AM
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Good idea to send it registered, maybe even return receipt. Let's see what the live scan says.
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Old 05-25-2017, 1:41 PM
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Hello everyone.

Someone very close to me just spent the last 10 years clearing his record without the help of an attorney. He had a few problems in his youth (early 20s), nothing major or violent but still, the blemishes were an ugly spot on an otherwise shiny and squeaky clean record.

4 misdemeanors expunged successfully. 3 out of the 4 misdemeanors were charged at the same time.

1 felony HS11359 expunged. This was the only charge that had a serious effect on his life. At the time of this charge he was not a dealer but was charged as one anyways. He has since moved on and hasnt been around or smoked any MJ for roughly 10 years now.

Anyways, in Feb of this year he had his Felony reduced under prop 64. Now, prior to this everything has gone smooth. All the expungements went through and updated at the DOJ almost instantly. The prop 64 reduction, not so much...

After a few months my friend decided to do a live scan and lo and behold the felony reduction did not show. He was forced to fill out more paperwork to challenge the DOJ information. It has been a month now since the DOJ had told him that they are in the process of "vetting" his claims via the original court.

My friend and I think it is awfully *****ty that the expungements went through ASAP with no issues and updated almost instantly but the ONE THING that makes him a non prohibited person is being held up. And just think of all the other poor saps who made one small mistake in their life and thought prop 64 would solve it without having to hold the DOJ feet to the flame. Personally its a waste of taxpayer money and time.

My friend is a good person who has a good family and friends. He made a mistake almost 20 years ago and he is still paying for it to this day.

My question is, is there any way to find out if the DOJ is actively trying to prevent these one time felons from reducing their charges and becoming able to own a gun again in CA? Considering he had no problems with the "expungements"...

Anyways, please dont devolve into name calling and judgmental assumptions about MJ or the fed vs state argument.
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2017, 5:18 AM
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They're not trying to prevent anything. The courts are flooded with the release of the new law. It's not uncommon if you read any of the reduction threads to see that DOJ rarely gets updated. It's not the DOJs fault generally, it's lack of communication on the court's part.

If he challenged 30 days ago, he should be getting a response very soon.
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Old 05-26-2017, 6:04 AM
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Jeep - You really that the pro second amendment state of CALIFORNIA isn't trying to prevent people from purchasing firearms? I do, but hey that's my opinion. We live in a state hell bent on massive gun control IMO. Action by inaction.

Blaze - I'm in the same exact boat. I have heard of people having to go so far as to hire an attorney to sue the DOJ and compel them to answer why they are not updating the records. On the other hand I have heard of people doing this with no problems at all. There's obviously a person in front of a computer at the DOJ so maybe it depends on who gets your info and its just a crap shoot. Keep me posted on your friends progress and ill share my experience too of course. I should have my live scan back some time next week.
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Old 05-26-2017, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumeazy View Post
Jeep - You really that the pro second amendment state of CALIFORNIA isn't trying to prevent people from purchasing firearms? I do, but hey that's my opinion. We live in a state hell bent on massive gun control IMO. Action by inaction.
CA politicians, definitely! CA Bureau of Firearms, maybe. CA DOJ Records Review and Criminal Analysis...no, I don't think so.

I say that because I've unfortunately had to work with them quite a bit lately trying to straighten out a bunch of other stuff, and frankly, they've done a better job than I expected them to.

I'll give you an example of why I think they're just overwhelmed though. I needed to update my FBI records. FBI tells you that the contributing agency needs to contact them. I contacted CA DOJ Records Review. About 30 or so days later, April 12, I got a letter that the FBI records now reflected by CA records accurately. On April 20, I got a letter postmarked April 13, with a letter Dated March 21, saying they had received my request for challenge.

So basically, the got the request, the wrote the letter, it got stuck in a stack of paperwork, they did the work, they issued a completion letter, they sent the completion letter, then a week later, the initial letter finally got mailed.

I just think they're overwhelmed. But that's just my opinion. BOF irritates me, Newsome and his cronies piss me off to no end, but records review and FBI have been more responsive than one might think.
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Old 05-26-2017, 7:24 PM
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I'm just going to chime in without my whole story but give an estimated timeline on my HS 11359:

Nov. '16: Contact atty for prop 64 reclassification from Felony to misdemeanor
Dec. '16: Motion made and granted and rec'd orders
Mar '17: Firearm purchase attempted and DROS denied, rec'd letter from DOJ stating I was denied as a Felon

I then noticed that my case had 2 case numbers but only 1 charge. My case started in municipal court and moved to superior court and was given another case number. So I contacted attorney and explained that my case was not taken care of and why?
Apr. 17: Waited on Attorney to research and to prepare 1203.4 paperwork for other dumb stuff I did 20 years ago right before the HS11359
May '17: Original case # presented for reclassification and all other cases presented for 1203.4 dismissal. All motions granted and show on my local superior court website.
Today: Waiting to receive orders for my records. After I receive orders I will do another live scan and if not updated I will submit updated orders.

It's been a real test of my patience with my attorney and the court system. Prop 64 is new and I was one of the first in Nov. to apply in my county. They didnt know then what we know now. My attorney has been kind enough to go ahead and follow thru with completing the task we set out to do and that was to get rid of a Felony.

My advise to you is to be patient. They will sure take you to jail alot quicker than they will "pardon" you or make things right even though the new law says retroactive and for all intents and purposes. It's not an overnight process so DO NOT WAIT! Get started today. I made a bad choice in 1995 and it's been over my head ever since. I am not the same man I was. After spending a few nights in jail I decided I was done with all of it! No more troubles and no more looking over my shoulder! I don't even drink or smoke... dont judge me LOL! It's just not good for me to do and I'm happily married, manage a successful business, have 2 beautiful kids and 3 adorable granddaughters! Life is good... shooting again will make it even better!
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Old 05-30-2017, 1:15 PM
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Same boat here papa. Mine was in 2001 when i was barley 18 and thought I knew everything of course. In hind sight I am well aware of the stupidity i had at such a young age. I did my prop 64 reduction in Jan myself after waiting for an attorney to figure it out. Hopefully my live scan results come this week and I can update ya'al. Did it last wed so it shouldn't be much longer. Might even be there when I get home today.

Jeep - Glad to hear you got yours taken care of. Purchase anything yet?
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Old 05-30-2017, 1:44 PM
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Just picked up my first shotgun, Mossberg Maverick 88 Security, yesterday. =)
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Old 05-30-2017, 3:32 PM
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Just got my live scan results. It does not reflect the prop 64 reduction. So it begins.
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Old 05-30-2017, 3:37 PM
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All those 113xx have to go to court to get reduced, it is not automated
Did you go to court
Most of what I have seen do not get their 'rights' back at all



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Old 05-30-2017, 3:50 PM
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Yea I filed the motion for reduction and it was granted and signed by the judge back in Jan
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Old 05-30-2017, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
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Just picked up my first shotgun, Mossberg Maverick 88 Security, yesterday. =)
Remind me, did u have a prop 64 or 17b going on?

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Old 05-30-2017, 4:37 PM
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I had a 17(b)(3) that wasn't actually a 17(b)(3), which caused some confusion. I actually had a 17(b)(5). The intial plea was vacated, a plea to a misdemeanor was entered, and then dismissed under 1203.4.

But I think you might be surprised at the record review department. Fortunately, they have a legal timeline they have to follow. However, you might take it one step further and ask they update the FBI with their findings. Otherwise, should you ever leave CA, you may find yourself going through this fight again with the FBI NICS.
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Old 05-30-2017, 5:03 PM
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I had a 17(b)(3) that wasn't actually a 17(b)(3), which caused some confusion. I actually had a 17(b)(5). The intial plea was vacated, a plea to a misdemeanor was entered, and then dismissed under 1203.4.

But I think you might be surprised at the record review department. Fortunately, they have a legal timeline they have to follow. However, you might take it one step further and ask they update the FBI with their findings. Otherwise, should you ever leave CA, you may find yourself going through this fight again with the FBI NICS.
Yea I have a certified copy of the order right here. Going to mail it tomorrow with the form they sent along with the results. Registered return receipt. Not really surprised it didn't get updated. I guess I was just hoping they would actually update the DON. Says right on the minute order "clerks office to notify department of justice." Even if I can't own a firearm I just want this felony off my record.

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Old 05-30-2017, 5:16 PM
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I'm pretty sure you get your firearm rights back with a Prop 64. There's a ton of lawyer sites suggesting it will restore 2A rights as long as there are no other prohibiting factors.

Frome Shouselaw.com:

This kind of Proposition 64 resentencing can help you restore rights that are not available to people with a past conviction for a felony--for example, the right to own a firearm without violating California's "felon with a firearm" law.
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Old 05-30-2017, 5:55 PM
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I'm confident it will, just going to take time actually getting my record updated.

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Old 05-30-2017, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFiend View Post
Just picked up my first shotgun, Mossberg Maverick 88 Security, yesterday. =)
Congrats! You've been through a lot to get to this point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFiend View Post
I had a 17(b)(3) that wasn't actually a 17(b)(3), which caused some confusion. I actually had a 17(b)(5). The intial plea was vacated, a plea to a misdemeanor was entered, and then dismissed under 1203.4.

But I think you might be surprised at the record review department. Fortunately, they have a legal timeline they have to follow. However, you might take it one step further and ask they update the FBI with their findings. Otherwise, should you ever leave CA, you may find yourself going through this fight again with the FBI NICS.
After reading most all of your threads I came to the conclusion I'm going to go thru FBI nics as well and get that cleaned up... after I get CA DOJ taken care of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFiend View Post
I'm pretty sure you get your firearm rights back with a Prop 64. There's a ton of lawyer sites suggesting it will restore 2A rights as long as there are no other prohibiting factors.

Frome Shouselaw.com:

This kind of Proposition 64 resentencing can help you restore rights that are not available to people with a past conviction for a felony--for example, the right to own a firearm without violating California's "felon with a firearm" law.
Yes... it's for all intents and purposes which basically means no restrictions.
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Old 05-30-2017, 8:18 PM
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1 hoop at a time.

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Old 05-30-2017, 8:49 PM
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Default PROP 64 reducing felony to a misdemeanor

Prop

Edit:
Hmm, not sure what happened to the rest of that post

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Old 05-31-2017, 5:32 AM
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Trhe internets swallowed the post

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Last edited by grumeazy; 05-31-2017 at 6:37 AM..
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFiend View Post
I'm pretty sure you get your firearm rights back with a Prop 64. There's a ton of lawyer sites suggesting it will restore 2A rights as long as there are no other prohibiting factors.

Frome Shouselaw.com:

This kind of Proposition 64 resentencing can help you restore rights that are not available to people with a past conviction for a felony--for example, the right to own a firearm without violating California's "felon with a firearm" law.
Look here:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/p...o-20161110.pdf

It's a good analysis of Prop 64 and it's effects, including restoring 2A rights. The analysis and reasoning are sound, and if memory serves, starts around page 34.
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Old 05-31-2017, 1:18 PM
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Seems pretty straight forward, thanks for the info ed.
Sent off the form to challenge the DOJ on accuracy and completeness. Certified mail, return receipt, as jeep suggested. I believe they have 30 days to respond once they receive so should have something back by the end of June.
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Old 05-31-2017, 1:44 PM
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I am definitely not a lawyer, but work in LE in an area with a lot of marijuana cases. Prop 47 has specific wording stating a prop 47 reduction per PC 1170.18 does not grant 2A rights back.

Prop 64 lacks any reference and states the reduction is "for all purposes". I would read that to mean 2A rights are restored. I think the whole state is overwhelmed by 64 reduction applications as well as commercial cultivation and sales permits applications.
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Old 05-31-2017, 2:08 PM
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I am definitely not a lawyer, but work in LE in an area with a lot of marijuana cases. Prop 47 has specific wording stating a prop 47 reduction per PC 1170.18 does not grant 2A rights back.

And I've seen court orders reflecting exactly that


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Old 06-06-2017, 5:48 AM
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edwardm, I have read the wording in the link you posted concerning prop.64 resentencing procedures starting on pg.34 saying, "unlike prop.47, the resetencing does not preclude the right to own & possess firearms." That sounds legit. But will the DOJ firearms dept. honor this part of the new prop. law after i have had my judgment of reduction to reflect such on my DOJ adjusted criminal record & then DROS? Thanx
I know why you might "think" DOJ might not honor but it is law now. IMO... Prop 64 is different than prop 47 because what you, myself and many many others were charged with as a felony way back when could today only be charged with misdemeanor. After petition is granted and orders received it's as if we never received that felony charge because today that felony charge would be "unlawful". Some cases may very but I'd say for the majority this holds true.

Do you have your orders? If so go for it! I'm running another live scan for "record review" today to see if DOJ is current and then I'm hoping for a very nice Fathers Day gift... preferably something that needs a holster.
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Old 06-06-2017, 5:54 AM
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Right, basically if I did the exact same thing today with the exact same circumstances, I would be guilty of a misdemeanor. That's the caveat of prop 64 vs prop 47. Plus like coyote said, 47 had a specific clause that it would not restore firearm rights.
Like Papa said, its law they don't have a choice. Can they drag their feet and make it difficult? of course. Will they? probably.

Angeleno - you are saying the DOJ record already reflects the adjustment?
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  #34  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:38 PM
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Big Gorilla Big Gorilla is offline
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Years ago I had some issues over a sale on eBay. Long story but I ended up with a felony. 3 months before my probation was over my attorney got my probation terminated early, case reduced to a misdemeanor and a not guilty plea entered and then expunged. Not even a month later I purchased 3 firearms, 1 handgun and 2 longuns. About 3 months after I got a ffl license in my name.

I didn't read what your charge was but as long as it's not a violent crime, or drug charge, or firearms charge obviously you ghouls be good to go.

I have spoken with some attorneys in the past and they stated even though a felony gets reduced you can never own a firearm again. This is absolutely false. Pretty sure they were just anti-gun turds.

Best of luck to you and if you have any questions feel free to pm me
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  #35  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:45 PM
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csshih csshih is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gorilla View Post
Years ago I had some issues over a sale on eBay. Long story but I ended up with a felony.
I would love the long story!
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No matter how desperate you are for money, you don’t sell guns. Give blood. Work the night shift. Do gay porn. Do not sell guns.

Secondly, guns are simply metal objects.
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  #36  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:47 PM
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Big Gorilla Big Gorilla is offline
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My apologies I didn't know what prop 64 was. Just looked it up. In this case I have no idea
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  #37  
Old 06-07-2017, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
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Years ago I had some issues over a sale on eBay. Long story but I ended up with a felony.
Go on....
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  #38  
Old 06-09-2017, 2:00 AM
losangeleno losangeleno is offline
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PAPA, Yeah i recieved my HS-11539 Reduction like 3 months ago. Then a little Over a Month ago i sent the DOJ Records Review & Challenge Unit a copy of the court judgement order along with the doj form to challenge the accuracy & completeness of my criminal record as to be adjusted to reflect the new misdemeanor conviction. I recived a letter from them (DOJ) that stated they are still in the process of reviewing my claim.
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  #39  
Old 06-09-2017, 2:15 AM
losangeleno losangeleno is offline
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GRUMEAZY, I submitted a DOJ claim form to the DOJ records review unit with a copy of my felony reduction judgment order from the court to challenge the accuracy & completness of my criminal record to reflect the reduction. This was done a little over a month ago. about a week ago i emailed them for a status report and recived an email stating they are in the process of reviewing my claim. guess it should be showing up soon so i can move on with the next step. and i hope i don't have to get an attourny for any of this bull****.
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  #40  
Old 06-09-2017, 5:07 PM
grumeazy grumeazy is offline
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Originally Posted by losangeleno View Post
GRUMEAZY, I submitted a DOJ claim form to the DOJ records review unit with a copy of my felony reduction judgment order from the court to challenge the accuracy & completness of my criminal record to reflect the reduction. This was done a little over a month ago. about a week ago i emailed them for a status report and recived an email stating they are in the process of reviewing my claim. guess it should be showing up soon so i can move on with the next step. and i hope i don't have to get an attourny for any of this bull****.
Well from what we have read and discussed, once they determine there is a need to investigate they then forward the request to the agency thatg furnished the information that is being challenged. That agency gas 30 days to respond to the doj. Then the doj has to make a decision. After they make a decision they have 30 days to inform you of the decision. There doesn't seem to be any place that says how long the doj has to forward the packet to the other agency or how long they have to make a decision after they receive the response. Only clock is in the other agency to respond to doj and then for doj to notify you of their decision. So minimum 60 days of clock time plus typical government lag in between. If I had to guess, all should be complete inside of 90 days. Don't count on them giving yuou a decision in 30, not going to happen. I've waited 16 years, I can wait a few months. Plus I can save up for a nice safe.

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